geppoz: takes 58ms
geppoz: :D
geppoz: when it is before full of 70k game state
geppoz: 58ms of garbage collector, nice
geppoz: definitely going to c++
Borrow: Which crates are available to a Rust submission?
LordSkaven: @Borrow from the FAQ, chrono 0.4.9, itertools 0.8.0, libc 0.2.62, rand 0.7.2, regex 1.3.0, time 0.1.42
KPlanas: Hi all
Quick question as I'm new to this
What happens in Silver?
Do we just compare codes to see who wins the most?
LordSkaven: sortof, there are no new rules in silver, the bots just become more closely matched
rockstar555: good night to everybody
KPlanas: Oh ok
No boss or anything then?
Even when the Gold League opens?
LordSkaven: the boss is chosen from one of the players basically.
spaceorc: @pedrosorio also check is you have hardcoded spells (like I do) - they were changed a day before - and my bot started to throw IndexOutOfRange exceptions
eulerscheZahl: https://twitter.com/itigo_purokonn
that's an active twitter user :o
LordSkaven: lol
KPlanas: Ok, thanks for the info LordSkaven :grin:
qahmad: is AI lap allows in this challenge?
qahmad: hii
[CG]Maxime: Hello!
xineohp: not sure why my c++ code is running slower than the js code. smh
struct: Hi
MadKnight: hihi
MadKnight: xineohp gg
Vischtor: Hi, question about running your code locally:
I cloned the git repo and used maven to install it, and get a .jar-file. But when I try to run the jar-file I get the following error:
no main manifest attribute, in target/fall-2020-1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
Any hints about what to do?
pedrosorio: spaceorc interesting, I do not hardcode, was just trying to understand how my bot gained 100 ranks overnight - if there were a lot of bots with hardcoded spells that could be another explanation
MadKnight: just create a main manifest
AntiSquid: eulerscheZahl are all the japs doing atcoder? did you do any atcoder challenges?
MadKnight: ohhh so they added bonus rupees cost to the input cost now
pedrosorio: MadKnight what does that mean?
AntiSquid: really? where is it MadKnight ?
MadKnight: https://github.com/CodinGame/FallChallenge2020/commit/4b0d2c21899817af91cce2817c9fe3facfb9c1cf
AntiSquid: the first two BREW recipes pedrosorio have bonus
AntiSquid: aha. cool @MadKnight
eulerscheZahl: i don't even have an account on atcoder
eulerscheZahl: their contests are in the middle of the night for me
Q12: Is C# is faster than Js?
eulerscheZahl: yes
Q12: ... I guess I need to change all my code to C# :sweat_smile:
AntiSquid: change to rust / c++
AntiSquid: rust doesn't crash in the IDE anymore it seems
Q12: don't know
AntiSquid: best time to learn :P
AntiSquid: tutorialspoint rust / c++
AntiSquid: easy translate
Q12: It would be hard and would take me a lot of time and until I will do it the contest will be over
Q12: so I will try to convert my code into C#
S-Maitland: general question - is c# or c++ better than Java?
Illedan: Both is better.
S-Maitland: in what ways, or is it a long list
Illedan: Faster at least
S-Maitland: i'm familiar with Java but haven't touched on c# or C++ and wondered what would make more sense to learn
Illedan: C# would be a fairly easy switch
struct: Throw a dice
S-Maitland: haha
S-Maitland: eenie meanie minie mo
S-Maitland: ok will look at C#, cheers :)
struct: rigged, roll again
S-Maitland: lol
eulerscheZahl: Illedan are you sure that C# is faster than Java?
Illedan: Nope :D
Illedan: Random internett post said so
eulerscheZahl: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/csharp.html
it is. but not that remarkable
eulerscheZahl: unless you write your bot in regexes
LordSkaven: is that your idea for the next contest euler? Regex only bot lol
Illedan: Code like that Calm winner :joy:
eulerscheZahl: strings everywhere. i was shocked
Illedan: Code to give nightmares
eulerscheZahl: i still have it somewhere
eulerscheZahl: found it
eulerscheZahl: did i break my bot or did lower ranks improve?
owlly: Im blocked bronze legue in coder strike back, someone can help me ?
S-Maitland: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a0dc41dd-4a21-4c05-ae30-8fe3fbda4ce2
S-Maitland: still got C# lol
S-Maitland: @struct
Cappefra: wait a second emil. is lvl 3? who is this guy?
IronKnight_3f67: Hello, are the tests that recruiters take similar to training? in this case it is for c ++
struct: from the recruiters on that use CG platform ?
IronKnight_3f67: yes
struct: I dont know if the tasks will be similar
struct: They use this platform
struct: https://www.codingame.com/work/
struct: The try for free is not working for some reason
IronKnight_3f67: ok thanks, someone told me that it's easier and less entertaining
IronKnight_3f67: and that there's an MCQ part
RockyMullet: oh chat is alive again ?
RockyMullet: good
CodyPro: hello world :)
RockyMullet: eulerscheZahl little question, I do around 16k sims and generally only go depth from 3-5, seems like not enough I feel I need to reduce my branching. You feel 16k is too much for so little depth ?
RockyMullet: oh no euler is gone
struct: poor rocky
RockyMullet: :cry:
struct: how much time do you use rocky?
RockyMullet: I stop at 39 ms because of random timeouts
RockyMullet: but I feel it's false time out due to the servers not feeling right
RockyMullet: I feel like 16k sim is too much for such a small depth
struct: So you are pruning to only use 7 per state
RockyMullet: I think I dont eliminate enough branching
RockyMullet: so im not
RockyMullet: should I ?
struct: Im not sure, I dont have working bot yet
RockyMullet: I dont have much actions I do do every time. I dont rest twice, I dont sim exausted spells
RockyMullet: dont do *
RockyMullet: other than that it's every actions after every action each depth
RockyMullet: I feel I should ignore some actions
struct: My problem is how to choose which ones are bad
LordSkaven: I think max nodes I reach is around 5k on depth of 8, but I almost never reach depth 8, usually stop at like depth 4/5. But I am using the LSFIIKS Algorithm.
RockyMullet: I though about only casting the learned spell after I learn a spell since there's no reason to elarn a spell in a sim if im not casting it, but then the tier0 exchange of taxes could matter
struct: Maybe learn it only on depth 1?
RockyMullet: yeah I do a kind of mutated bfs
struct: only allow spells to be learned on depth 1 of bfs
RockyMullet: struct yeah thats what I though, but it eliminate all the exchange of tier0 from taxes and it could matter
Q12: did you take into account that situations that you already encountered you don't need to explore them again?
RockyMullet: Q12 well I dont learn a spell twice
RockyMullet: or brew twice
struct: But if you cast spell 0 and spell 1
struct: you get the same state as if you cast spell 1 and then 0
RockyMullet: but a spell a learned spell can be casted
RockyMullet: the only "I never check you ever again" I have is for brews, since they never matter after
RockyMullet: struct true
RockyMullet: yeah maybe it's something I could look up
RockyMullet: thanks guys
RockyMullet: it matters if one of those are the first depth since it changes the actual output
RockyMullet: but beong that, there's no change
RockyMullet: unless it's learning spell or brewing
Q12: I am not speaking about it. if you got to a specific inventory and you explore all actions from there and you encounter the same specific inventory again you can skip exploring it. did you understand?
RockyMullet: but cast 0 then 1, or 1 then 0 doesnt change anything
RockyMullet: Q12 it doesnt mean I have all the same exausted spell
RockyMullet: BUT
RockyMullet: oh
RockyMullet: yeah I undersdtand now
Q12: :ok_hand:
RockyMullet: I can check if I could ever be able to cast it
isME: hi
isME: :corp:
isME: :eye:
isME: :wave:
WINWINWIN: Any idea when gold is opening? If so, how did you find out?
RockyMullet: tommorow
struct: arleady?
struct: I need to step up
RockyMullet: in the IDE, you can see your league, like "silver league"
RockyMullet: if you click on that
struct: its in 2 days rocky
struct: 19-11
RockyMullet: you see when the next league comes out
WINWINWIN: Awesome, thanks
WINWINWIN: struct it says 18/11
RockyMullet: struct time zones :D
struct: its 15:28 here
ZarthaxX: struct what happened to your bot
RockyMullet: weird
WINWINWIN: This time they take 10% of the silvers?
struct: Which bot ZarthaxX?
RockyMullet: anyway says 18 for me too
RockyMullet: carrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnneeeeee
ZarthaxX: the non existent bot
ZarthaxX: MEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAT!
ZarthaxX: howdy
struct: Mate, this bot was the first getting bronze
struct: Im never touching it again
LordSkaven: also this https://airtable.com/shrLIOcKJPVoTRdeY/tblDCOBztDlD4XmCg/viw4vOCwSM79TJi7F?backgroundColor=yellow under the CodinGame category
RockyMullet: viande*
ZarthaxX: struct LOL
ZarthaxX: RockyMullet wot
RockyMullet: it's meat in french haha
struct: ok I refreshed and it says 18 now
ZarthaxX: ah ah
Kupillos: yo
struct: https://i.imgur.com/mFhnPyj.png
paulemploi: yo
RockyMullet: hows your bot doing ZarthaxX ?
struct: zarthax was just promoted
ZarthaxX: i just did a few hours of it to get to silver
struct: I know everything ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: but well ,pretty bad, not much code
ZarthaxX: struct stalker
paulemploi: thomas tu vois mon message?
RockyMullet: ZarthaxX sim yet ?
RockyMullet: paulemploi Il le verrait aussi dans #fr
Q12: do you guys have a quick way to discover what will be the inventory after casting some spell except of adding the inventory and the spell ingredients? will be very helpful :slight_smile:
ZarthaxX: just finding closest potion to make with bfs rockstar555
ZarthaxX: RockyMullet
RockyMullet: someone stoll "rock" autocomplete from me, this is war
ZarthaxX: yeah, annoys me
RockyMullet: Q12 so far I do that, just add all ingredients, but there's probably a better way
RockyMullet: the max ingredient is 10
RockyMullet: so 4 bits
RockyMullet: 4 ingredient 16 bits
RockyMullet: so you could probably do something with mashing everything in a single variable
BrunoFelthes: empty?
RockyMullet: and add them
Q12: nice!
RockyMullet: oh shit it can be negative too
ITACIRE: hi
struct: I make all ingredients positive
struct: but I have cost and gain
RockyMullet: ooooh so you can have 16 bits for cost and 16 for gain and it still holds in a 32 bit
**RockyMullet scribbles furiously in his TODO list
struct: struct Ingredient {
uint8_t values[4];
Counterbalance: union Delta { uint32_t value; char values[4]; }
AllYourMCTS: whats the benefit of putting it in a 32 bit value?
struct: Counterbalance way should be better
Counterbalance: you can then test for negative values very fast
RockyMullet: yeah unions seems like the way to go
RockyMullet: same data, 2 ways of using it
Counterbalance: the only downside is that checking for 10 ingredients requires another 4 adds, or a 5th byte
RockyMullet: AllYourMCTS 32 is the size of an unsigned int in C++
RockyMullet: Counterbalance I dont understand, 10 fits in 4 b
RockyMullet: 4 * 4 ingredient types = 16
RockyMullet: ooooooooh you mean like busting the 10 ingredients with a cast
RockyMullet: shit, you're right
RockyMullet: I wish you werent lol
struct: I got lost
struct: Im not understanding
Counterbalance: you can do 16bit, but then adding the ingredients to the inventory requires shifting and masking..
RockyMullet: struct mashing up the ingredient count in a single variable by doing some bit shift
RockyMullet: you'll be able to just substract or add those variable
RockyMullet: but like Counterbalance said, it means you cant just add everything when it's possible to go over 10 ingredient, therefore going over 4 bits
RockyMullet: well
RockyMullet: 4 bits max is 15
RockyMullet: is tehre any spells who gives more than 5 of a single ingredient ?
struct: But there are cost of 6
struct: or cost doesnt matter?
struct: for recipes
NitMpez: i was trying to store the 4*4 bit integers, but the problem that i ran into was handling the negative deltas...
NitMpez: worked great for all positive values... failed miserably for me when dealing with negatives
Counterbalance: the trouble with 4 bits is that it's signed range is -8 to 7, so you can't tell if 0x8 is +8 or -8
NitMpez: yeah, i tried even bumping it to 4*5bit integers just because of that
Counterbalance: lol
Counterbalance: the 8bit version is certainly fast enough though
NitMpez: haven't really worked with unions... so if you add those together... will it handle the sign correctly in the 8th bit.
MadKnight: yea those are still s8's
MadKnight: signed chars
NitMpez: cool... will look into it...
ICanCode: i have a challenge for you
ICanCode: using F# can you make a remake of the currently popular game, Among Us
struct: no
ICanCode: :ok_hand:
jakietunning: hello guys
m-achine: i have a spacial gif for u
dreadylein: -34 of reagent 0 .. yep engine seems to be running at peak perfomancen :D
reCurse: You just invented imaginary brewing
dreadylein: best game, just like real life, taxes are messing everything up ;)
Illedan: Yeah, where is the bank? Would like to borrow some ingredients.
reCurse: Can't, you ran out of space in your account
DomiKo: I wish I could negotiate with witches :/
DomiKo: Those deals are really bad sometimes
RockyMullet: DomiKo that's how you accidently sumon demons
DomiKo: Can demon give me 5 yellows?
reCurse: For the low price of your soul
DomiKo: Soul for T-Shirt is nice trade. Take my soul demon!
numb3r5: How do i move on to the next level in coders strike back? It's simulating hundreds of races and it's taking forever
reCurse: Your score needs to be above the boss when the submit is over.
TheMassivePirateVanDerSwag_1634: Yo world!
LordSkaven: best username I have seen in a while there
jacek: :blush:
TheMassivePirateVanDerSwag_1634: :joy:
TheMassivePirateVanDerSwag_1634: Who's here
DToTheE: Did you guys get an email when you were promoted to Silver League?
Counterbalance: no
struct: I got an email that silver opened
bhrr: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1466887951938d2e087df968b3261d9f0d9e1cd
jacek: oO
AntiSquid: bhrr https://www.codingame.com/contests/fall-challenge-2020
Cristinel:
DToTheE I've got the email yestarday
AntiSquid: that username reminds me of :
https://youtu.be/mO1QBTG6EXs?t=52
moon_invader: some tips for accessing gold league, this is my first contest
moon_invader: ??
kovi: wait a few days
moon_invader: it will be too late
AntiSquid: gold is tomorrow
moon_invader: i am at the bottom of ranking
llllllllll: calculate stuff, print something
AntiSquid: panic, wear a mask, lock indoors
Q12: I think every one in the world follow your way :joy::sob:
moon_invader: ??
DToTheE: @Cristinel, you probably got the email that silver opened, not that you were promoted, unless you're different than Counterbalance, struct, and me in that regard.
Q12: > moon_invader work hard and improve your bot :relaxed:
AntiSquid: work smart, not hard
Q12: yeah, u right
Clagus: what if working smart is hard?
Clagus: :D
moon_invader: is 5 days enough to study game theory??
AntiSquid: i see we're having a dissenter in here ... Automaton2000 take care of this individual
Automaton2000: i dont know much about it
jacek: 5 days is enough only for study quantum physics
AntiSquid: you can read the whole 400-500 pages in one day though !
moon_invader: so, back to work
TheOtherAKS: hello guys, is it possible when playing a [Community Puzzle] to see what the computer input is ?
arkwaw: you could use debug output to print input, like cerr>> in c++
TheOtherAKS: is that possible in Python ?
struct: print("Debug messages...", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
TheOtherAKS: thank you sir .
WINWINWIN: Looking at emil. and some of the top new guys, are contests easy to pick up if you join as a skilled coder?
LordSkaven: probably
LordSkaven: I consider myself an average/below average programmer and I am constantly in the top 300/200
WINWINWIN: Its not the after you settle in part, its when you just start, can you pick up the contests easily?
LastRick: I'll offer the counter argument. I've coded forever but this is my first contest. There are a lot of things to consider (with regards to game theory) that you don't think about if you're just coding for work.
LordSkaven: In short, yes I think that if you are a skilled programmer it is relatively easy to pick the contests.
LastRick: I would agree.
sadakatsu: I find that I excel in professional programming and struggle with these contests. It feels like there is some knack for seeing "simple" tricks to get better algorithms that I do not see. The brute force solutions are usually all that occur to me : /
sadakatsu: AFAIAA, my resulting code also tends to be roughly five times longer than the top entries, too.
sadakatsu: I do a lot less with so much more work.
LastRick: Totally understand. So, again, my first contest, brute force got me to Bronze. After that, I started watching Euler's game and trying to understand WHY is he choosing to do X (LEARN, CAST, BREW), or WHY NOT? I watched the default AI a lot. And you start to pick up clues about where to attack.
VizGhar: Ain't nobody got time for this :D
AntiSquid: for a moment i read "professional excel programming"
CommanderCero: good i wasnt the only one
LastRick: Big difference between this and writing VBA macros
AntiSquid: import pandasql , query the table in sql code within python code @_@
Cuken: Can I see what action my opponent took last turn given the input of this turn outside of "OPPONENT_CAST"
Cuken: Or do I need to evaluate game state to figure that out
Clagus: do you feel like buying recipes isn't really well designed? like buing top recipes is very expensive, so you probably just have to buy the cheapest anyway?
sadakatsu: Right now, I only buy a recipe if it reduces my distance to my current goal this turn.
Clagus: interesting, thanks :)
EladYaniv01: is a LEARN delta the same as any other delta, meaning the negative values are what it costs ?
GiraffeKing: Yea
Zilvester: EladYaniv01 - yes
rwilson: EladYaniv01 - keep in mind that the COST to LEARN is related to the TAX and it's tome index ... but once you've learned it, that DELTA is how the spell will behave ( i.e. it turns into a 'CAST' available or you next turn )
VizGhar: No it is not... learn cost is equal to tomeIndex :)
VizGhar: and you will receive tax after learning the spell
Clagus: how can I track the +3/+1 bonuses? game does not provide such inputs, right? so how can I tell if my opponent is brewing something? it's easy when he is brewing different potion than myself, but what if we brew the same potion? how can I detect this?
ErikBrendel: yes, they are inputs
ErikBrendel: they are in the tomeIndex for orders
rwilson: Clagus - it's jammed into the tome_index ... was added late, so it's weird. read description carefully.
Zenoscave: good to know!
Clagus: oh! :D
Zenoscave: didn't see that
Clagus: nice hack xD
rwilson: Clagus - key point, it's INCLUDED already in the price... so in some sense you don't really care. you have to subtract the bonus from PRICE to get the base price.
Clagus: wait, really? it's already included in the price?
sadakatsu: Yes.
Clagus: oh I see, nice
Clagus: much less effort then :)
Zenoscave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbf0d2UHLrQ
ErikBrendel: thank you rwilson, didn't know that
Cuken: Except if you are past the first 4 recipes being purchased in slot 1 or 2, the price will now reflect it without the bonus
Clagus: wait what?
ErikBrendel: yeah sure, because there is no bonus anymore after 4 recipes
Clagus: what about +1 bonus?
Cuken: It would be nice to know what action your opponent took rather than analzying game state
EladYaniv01: so a spell is in the Tome first index, i literally see i can afford it, and the surplus wont go over 10 in my inventory , but the game sais i dont have enough ingredients, why is that ?
rwilson: EladYaniv01 - 'not enough ingredients' implies you are trying to learn a spell where the tax is higher than the number of blue resourses you have .. OR trying to CAST something you can't cast yet.
VizGhar: not correct
VizGhar: tax is amount of tier0 you will receive after purchasing spell
VizGhar: spell cost is determined solely based on tomeIndex
VizGhar: Only confusing thing visually is, that spell with tomeIndex=0 is shown on bottom of the list :)
rwilson: EladYaniv01 - if it's for your LEARN, you might double check which way youre reading the tome index ( i had it backwards my first go , when tryign to learn the FREE one )
EladYaniv01: omg yeah
EladYaniv01: thanks guys
VizGhar: Second last item in tome costs 1 (and has tomeIndex = 1) and if there is any tax, you will receive it AFTER you purchase spell
VizGhar: if you cant store tax it will be discarded (not 100% sure about this one)
EladYaniv01: thank you very much, i wish the instructions were more clear about it @VizGhar
rwilson: VizGhar - yes - excesses are discarded
VizGhar: :thumbsup:
Barimehdi77: in the inventory there's a for loop loop twice which one is mine
struct: first
rwilson: Barimehdi77 - YOUR inventory is always first , regardless of if you are the RED or BLUE witch.
hbouillo: Does anyone know when the gold league will be open? :)
GiraffeKing: Click on your league above the game screen
Xenoid: In 22 hours
hbouillo: Oh yeah, thank you!
Barimehdi77: i write this func to check if the potion is ready but I don't know why it doesn't work
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/0b40edb6-0d20-4a57-9235-ae266d198a78
Xenoid: The inequalities are wrong. Consider what happens if brows.delta_0 is -2 but inv.inv_0 is 1. Your inequality succeeds but you want it to fail
CommanderCero: yeah the mistake is that if you negate your inventory a larger value will become smaller.
For example delta=-2 and inv=3
-3 is smaller than -2
AntiSquid: what search depth are people at ? :o
Clagus: just write it more human friendly... don't try to invent smart checks, if you can just write it as you think it: inventory should be more than the demand
CommanderCero: ive got 40 but im pruning like crazy, before that i was at 6
Xenoid: My search depth is 4, which is probably why I cannot seem to break into the top 50 anymore
struct: what rank are you Xenoid?
NinjaDoggy: my low search depth is like 10, goes up to 20ish
Xenoid: I was ~70 before I submitted recently
NinjaDoggy: but I don't have opponent sim yet...
NinjaDoggy: so deeper is worse lol
emh: hey guys
emh: just started contest
struct: top 70 with depth 4 seems very good
struct: hi emh, good luck
NinjaDoggy: "i have a master plan for then next 15 moves!" gets every potion stolen :(
AntiSquid: hi emh how's it going
Barimehdi77: but why The program get timeout
emh: struct thanks :)
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/754de9ae-81ec-4ab4-97ce-cd7f2f454a43
Xenoid: I'm happy with my sim and scoring, but I don't think it's enough
emh: AntiSquid entering Bronze soon so good I think :)
CommanderCero: depth is quite vague anyway, depending on how you prune you may prune away important branches and still reach high depth
NinjaDoggy: 0 pruning for brew/cast
eulerscheZahl: Barimehdi77 only print 1 command each turn
NinjaDoggy: :)
AntiSquid: you have time to auto-promote to gold too emh :)
Xenoid: Depth isn't vague when you are exhaustive :D
emh: hehehe
CommanderCero: yeah but that take so long :(
emh: started a new job
Barimehdi77: That's what I did
emh: it's only 2 days per week so far though
emh: so still have some time for contest
AntiSquid: what job ?
emh: IT consultant
Barimehdi77: browdone print only if the potion is ready
AntiSquid: cool
AntiSquid: :thumbsup:
eulerscheZahl: oh, the bottom block is in a comment
Barimehdi77: is this right
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b332dbf8-2c66-4c42-8236-ff42571903ec
emh: it's only apprenticeship so far though. through the government and friends
AntiSquid: "brows"
Barimehdi77: this func check if I have the potion ready
AntiSquid: it's a good start lol emh
Xenoid: Barimehdi77, yes
emh: AntiSquid thx :)
Barimehdi77: but why I get timeout
CommanderCero: thats probably not the fault of the function
AntiSquid: do you have any error message Barimehdi77 ?
emh: Bronze strat just some ifs throwing random spells for all potential brews. double loop
AntiSquid: you probably need to take out code piece by piece to find out - annoying but only way
emh: are people bit-optimizing the hell out of this contest already?
Counterbalance: of course
emh: hehe
Barimehdi77: Barimehdi77 has not provided 1 lines in time.
Barimehdi77 was disqualified.
LordSkaven: hmm, I wonder if maintaining Top 300 would guarantee promotion to Gold tomorrow
CommanderCero: I did that, it made it a lot faster but I dont think its necesary
AntiSquid: do you have a choice? looks like an optimization multi .
AntiSquid: LordSkaven probably
Barimehdi77: i write this to see if the potion is ready
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/622eae25-c981-4e01-ac58-507a654fb4cf
eulerscheZahl: probably not AntiSquid
AntiSquid: it's just legend that's always hardcore
Barimehdi77: brewdone func
AntiSquid: why not euler ?
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b356d5c2-698a-48fb-b314-0d6bcaaebb4e
AntiSquid: 300/1400 for gold, don't see the issue :P
eulerscheZahl: i predict a stronger silver boss, around 100-150
Counterbalance: your brewdone function returns void, how can you compare it to 0?
struct: I think 100 aswell
eulerscheZahl: then lots of later promotions
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/1e25048a-171f-47b7-896e-be741e8282c3
AntiSquid: max 200 for silver box . like really worst case scenario
Barimehdi77: this is my brewdone func
AntiSquid: boss *
eulerscheZahl: can Icebox beat the silver box?
AntiSquid: they are usually lenient with the silver boss
AntiSquid: idk, what is stronger? silver or ice ? Icebox
Barimehdi77: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e5836880-2e12-48cb-9e3a-807276b8e80a
AntiSquid: euler why do you expect a really strong gold boss ?
AntiSquid: i mean silver boss *
eulerscheZahl: i wouldn't call that "really strong"
AntiSquid: it would be stronger than usual for silver
eulerscheZahl: that's just how it is from my limited memories (i never cared too much about it)
eulerscheZahl: we'll see tomorrow
AntiSquid: AutomatonNN what do you think?
AutomatonNN: what do you mean?
AllYourMCTS: are you guys doing depth test with all pairs of actions? :O
eulerscheZahl: we just broke the 6k mark
ZarthaxX: :clap:
eulerscheZahl: with pruning
BrunoFelthes: what kind of algo is good to check simultaneous turns?
BrunoFelthes: is minimax works?
eulerscheZahl: i'm frustrated, can't climb up anymore. but even sure if i broke my bot or not
eulerscheZahl: it's mostly a single player optim game
NinjaDoggy: C# hitting its limits?
NinjaDoggy: or just lack of ideas?
struct: Still enough time to change
eulerscheZahl: no, toad hitting the limits
BrunoFelthes: kkkk
NinjaDoggy: :(
struct: euler do you think it would perform better with c++?
eulerscheZahl: yes but not that much
eulerscheZahl: top players beat my by algo, not my language
eulerscheZahl: beat me, by language
can't type
eulerscheZahl: bedtime
struct: gn
AntiSquid: 7 PM ?
NinjaDoggy: gn euler
AntiSquid: ah
AntiSquid: gn
BrunoFelthes: probably 50k simulations is enough to find a good path...
AntiSquid: euler is the early bird
eulerscheZahl: 8:40 pm
NinjaDoggy: lol time zones are so wack
NinjaDoggy: i just woke up 11:40 for me lol
AntiSquid: what counts as good BrunoFelthes ?
BrunoFelthes: legend league at the end
NinjaDoggy: yeh 50k is not bad
AntiSquid: this game might be UTTT 2
NinjaDoggy: i'm getting roughly 120k
BrunoFelthes: what 120k?
BrunoFelthes: and you are not top 50? something is wrong
BrunoFelthes: i'm doing 5k
NinjaDoggy: i'm not simming opponent yet
NinjaDoggy: top 20 today probably
BrunoFelthes: are you using some trick with bits to do it faster?
AllYourMCTS: 50k complete single player game simulations??
AntiSquid: reveal thy trick
NinjaDoggy: um... i guess i don't mind sharing...
NinjaDoggy: talked about this a few days ago too
NinjaDoggy: but basically you only have 1001 inventory states
NinjaDoggy: so you can precompute all possible transitions
BrunoFelthes: hummm
NinjaDoggy: I started with bit manipulation too
CommanderCero: i think he means forward model calls. Because i can also reach around 200k
NinjaDoggy: but it's more complex and faster
NinjaDoggy: slower*
CommanderCero: also thats an interesting approach
NinjaDoggy: yea forward model calls is a good way to describe it
NinjaDoggy: anyone know of a faster alternative to unordered_set<int>
AllYourMCTS: forward model calls as in applying 1 action to the sim?
NinjaDoggy: that's specific to integers?
CommanderCero: an array
NinjaDoggy: but like it's too big for array :(
CommanderCero: that is lare enough
CommanderCero: oh
NinjaDoggy: let's say 2^30
NinjaDoggy: and all i need is to know if the integer exists, and to add new integer
CommanderCero: transposition table, still an array but you compute an hash
CommanderCero: and hope that you never encounter the same index twice
NinjaDoggy: ok...
NinjaDoggy: so bloom filter with k=1
CommanderCero: mcts yes forward model call = advancing game by 1 round
AllYourMCTS: ahhhh
Zenoscave: for sim is anyone using learns in the sim path?
Zenoscave: I've got maby 20k in 50ms
Zenoscave: I think I need a refactor
NinjaDoggy: planning on simming learn on first turn only
AllYourMCTS: what is learns?
Zenoscave: LEARN from tome
AllYourMCTS: oh
Zenoscave: Probably GC is killing me
AllYourMCTS: i'm doing random game playouts with all possible actions
ParticleBeam: So am I. It's not working all that well anymore...
AllYourMCTS: :)
Zenoscave: I need to find a way to locally allow ony one thread on C# my timings are less than accurate to the servers
motty: So, I've been promoted to the Bronze League and I don't know why - my code was definitely not cutting it for Wood League 2. This is weird.
pedrosorio: (...) not cutting it for Wood League (...)
I see what you did there
GiraffeKing: ha
motty: :sunglasses:
wlesavo: Zenoscave i do, but with raw MC
Zenoscave: huh wlesavo
wlesavo: Zenoscave did you fix recepie update?
Zenoscave: raw mc?
Zenoscave: why?
wlesavo: you had a broken bot today
Zenoscave: and no. there's an update?
Zenoscave: replay?
wlesavo: yes, check the new recepies, one was changed
Zenoscave: I don't hardcode transitions
wlesavo: oh
wlesavo: i thought thats why you always timed out
Zenoscave: No just no timeout checks. Just eval max count.
Zenoscave: Might add timeout checks back
wlesavo: Zenoscave i won almost all of games in arena against you like this https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/504551047
wlesavo: i see, but there are some problems with timeouts for everyone, you should probably fix your checking
Zenoscave: fair
Zenoscave: thanks
wlesavo: raw MC was first thing i tried, and then i got lazy
wlesavo: but it is easy to add heuristics there, my is code somewhat pythonic
wlesavo: my code is*
S-Maitland: quick question, do you only move on from challenges if you defeat the boss in the arena, rather than just beating them in the "play my code" part
Zenoscave: yes S-Maitland
ForgottenSausage_431f: what
S-Maitland: ok thanks Zenoscave :)
Zenoscave: np
Ekaon: Is there someone able to run the FallChallenge project outside CodingGame website ?
motty: Boss must have had... unfortunate rng luck in the run that promoted me to Bronze sometime overnight then.
Zenoscave: Brutal tester Ekaon
Zenoscave: you need to patch the source a bit though
Traquila: How do you send messages in GUI?
StrykerS: hi
ForgottenSausage_431f: hello
Ekaon: Yeah, this is where i'm stuck
GiraffeKing: motty, you gotta do better than the bot would in 100 games; doubt it's 100 games of bad luck.
Zenoscave: Traquila add a " " and then your message at the end of your turn move
Traquila: thank you
Zenoscave: Ekaon What's the error you're getting and what version of java do you run?
motty: @GiraffeKing sure, but my code was happily accumulating tier3 ingredients like that was the goal and not even trying to make potions.
Samer: motty i have the same problem lol
Samer: actually my code is so broken it's amazing i made it to silver, or even bronze!
S-Maitland: is it 100 GiraffeKing, i'm 50 games in and only at 20% battle progress
GiraffeKing: S-Maitland, maybe not? Mine usually seems to have the % be the same as the games played, but I was only guessing based on that.
ikadimi: can you add minmax to a js code without timing out ?
ForgottenSausage_431f: w
ForgottenSausage_431f: w
ForgottenSausage_431f: w
Zenoscave: ikadimi yes but probably not very deep
Zenoscave: plus minmax does not work well with simultaneous games like this
ikadimi: what kind of algorithm is best then ?
Zenoscave: MC or beam search/bfs seems to be common
Zenoscave: MC or MCTS
Zenoscave: but again MCTS needs modifications for simultaneous turns
ikadimi: alright thank you ima check them out
StrykerS: poo
struct: all depends on the depth
struct: oh chat didnt scroll
Zenoscave: beat you to it struct ;:P
struct: You are beating me everywhere :'(
Zenoscave: what!? My bot currently times out too often
struct: Doesnt matter even if you have 0% wins you are still ahed
struct: Im still in bronze
Zenoscave: ooof
struct: But to be fair my bot is just MC
struct: just to see if I had bugs
S-Maitland: what does Mc mean?
Zenoscave: monte carlo
struct: Monte Carlo
struct: Random search
Zenoscave: probabilistic random choice
S-Maitland: ah ok
Zenoscave: just a sim debug then struct?
struct: yes
Zenoscave: wlesavo fixed my timeout. let's see how it does
jamessizeland: timeouts are kicking my code too, can't figure out what's causing it
KevinisMAD: You probably aren't finishing your computations fast enough
AllYourMCTS: did they change it so when spells get added to your inventory they have a new id instead of the actual id?
AllYourMCTS: i swear the spell ids were the same once added to inventory but now they are different
Xenoid: It has always been that way, AllYourMCTS
struct: they have never been the same
Zenoscave: nope
KevinisMAD: Response time per turn ≤ 50ms
Response time for the first turn ≤ 1000ms
AllYourMCTS: oh wow
jamessizeland: yeah I just dropped my search timeout 10ms and its working now
struct: jamessizeland when do you start your timer?
llllllllll: is there a way to see a stacktrace or sg when my code crashes?
I get random "timeouts" when I clearly have time remaining, but no error message, nothing
llllllllll: (C++)
KevinisMAD: Honestly I am trying to build a dp table during the first turn and adding when I learn but it is still timing out
KevinisMAD: Could be you aren't returning an action by the end of a turn
jamessizeland: I'm just limiting my search algorithm to 30ms
llllllllll: I don't get to the end, it fails somewhere, but I cannot find where
rohit523: Which league are you guys on??
KevinisMAD: Silver
jamessizeland: silver
rohit523: im on wood 1 ;(
KevinisMAD: Just try to test out ideas you think work youll move up pretty fast
rohit523: just finished coding wood 1 testing in battle
KevinisMAD: Although some of these later rules require a bit more computation and data structures knowledge
rohit523: ohh okay
arkwaw: I still don't get how there can be only ~1000 inventory combination, someone mentioned that. If we have a,b,c,d each <=10 and a+b+c+d<=10
arkwaw: that is ~81754 valid combinations
Zenoscave: some aren't represented by the inputs
Zenoscave: *many
Icebox: wait what
Icebox: who's silver box
rohit523: My logic for wood 1 was that i sorted vector according to price/moves and casted acc to that ... but is this the most optimal ?
rwilson: arkwaw - interesting problem in itself ;) we start with 3 blue, but only have the 42 spells to do transformations with... so some combinations might not be reachable ( but then you've gotta expand due to extra tax income ;) )
arkwaw: i should assume that at some point i'll be able buy every single spell. Lets say pure green one Recipe(0, 0, 1, 0)
wlesavo: Zenoscave well now you rec me
arkwaw: with it and rest I can have all 0..10 greens
arkwaw: we also have pure blue spell, pure red
arkwaw: so still all combinations should be possible
emh: hmm.. I was printing too much. got timeouts because of it. I was limiting to 40 ms. so hot tip: don't print too much
xSkyline: @rohit523 in the early levels you can (and should) beat the boss with whatever code is implemented the easiest.
wlesavo: Zenoscave oh, but still some timeouts in ide, or didnt you updated arena version yet? https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/504618067
Zenoscave: I did update
Zenoscave: still have a bunch of timeouts
Zenoscave: Might rework to table
wlesavo: dam
rohit523: Ohh i see :sweat_smile:
arkwaw: i'll have to think about it
wlesavo: you didnt have this issue before right?
Zenoscave: Yeah. but sims were much lower
rohit523: i actually complicated my code too much to beat players in arena
AntiSquid: my ifs dropped 200 spots tonight, people are aggresisvely improving
rohit523: with trying to get an optimal approach
emh: I have a basic C++ sim just over 200 lines. getting 300k-1mill simulations of combinations of spells to reach a brew. hope it will get me to Silver
AntiSquid: lol
jamessizeland: flip!
AntiSquid: 300k-1mil ? sounds like gold tier at least
AntiSquid: /flip jamessizeland
AntiSquid: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
emh: I don't think it's comparable to other people's numbers as it's not full sims
emh: just some hackish thingy
emh: so far
jamessizeland: I wonder how many permutations I'm searching... I'll check
AntiSquid: forums down?
PatrickMcGinnisII: emh, paths to all 5 brews are findable in < 400 nodes if you ignore rests... 300k sims? i don't see how or why
Gedzius: guys do you know if there's a given element which tells how many potions has your opponent brewed overall ?
emh: PatrickMcGinnisII it was easy to think about and code that's why hehe
struct: 300k sims is possible
LastRick: Antisquid: Agreed, impressive amount of improvement. My code is leaps and bounds better than what got me through Bronze (head to head testing). I've hardly moved in the rankings.
emh: PatrickMcGinnisII interesting to hear that it can be done in so few "nodes"
emh: though
motty: A game that required deep lookahead would have implications for which languages were feasible.
PatrickMcGinnisII: 1 brew alone is findable in <80...do all5 at once...<400
PatrickMcGinnisII: top bots total game lengths are <40
SirLoxley: Is anyone else experiencing timeouts in battles ... and then when loading the params there's no timeout anymore?
(Java)
llllllllll: yep
PatrickMcGinnisII: 40 turns
emh: damnit. fell below Bronze boss in my current submit. had a long loss streak
emh: hope it will pass
llllllllll: but for me its not timeouts, it crashes somewhere, since I don't get any error messages its hard to find
jamessizeland: I was until I put time timing limits in
LastRick: I've seen it in dart too. Timeout in the Arena, take it to IDE and its not there. A little annoying.
SirLoxley: A bit hard to fix to be honest.
raymoo: in haskell the timeouts I experienced were generally reproduceable
rwilson: Gedzius - no. you'll have to figure out they brewed by noticing their score went up from last turn.
llllllllll: is there any way to get an error message at runtime? (C++)
Gedzius: rwilson - ok thanks
raymoo: run yourself as a child process and read output(?)
PatrickMcGinnisII: top bots seem to be doing best first searches...at maybe 20k nodes ... someone tell me if I'm wrong?
llllllllll: I do not have a local env set up
Counterbalance: try / catch will catch some of them
Gedzius: rwilson - wait there's isnt something that tells me about opponents score or am i missing something
llllllllll: ah, good idea... im so dumb not to consider that, lol
AntiSquid: LastRick what is your stable rank ?
rwilson: Gedzius - input gives you both players INVENTORY & SCORE on same lines --- yours is always 1st, enemy second
SirLoxley: what annoys me even more with these timeouts ... each and every IDE replay ... I won :/
LastRick: Squid: Around 75% silver, so currently ~1000
Gedzius: rwilson - yea could you tell me the elements name. Is it actionCount ?
llllllllll: its the second iteration of the loop
llllllllll: after the "items"
llllllllll: (you are first, enemy second)
Gedzius: ah shit what language are you coding by
Gedzius: in python its action_id, action_type, delta_0, delta_1, delta_2, delta_3, price, tome_index, tax_count, castable, repeatable
llllllllll: C++ and python
llllllllll: the enemy score, etc comes after those
Counterbalance: llllllllll segfaults aren't shown in the ide; you can trap SIGSEGV but that won't help much so you're better off running the bot locally in that case
Gedzius: oh so do i need to ask for another input (this is my first real challenge)
llllllllll: ah, right... I tried the trap, but it didn't really work, so I'm switching to local testing, thanks!
GiraffeKing: Do we get some input that tells us the other witch's last action?
motty: Serious kudos to anyone doing this in not-a-scripting-language. Debugging must be srsly hard.
Counterbalance: F5
GiraffeKing: Doing it in C# and debugging has not been so hard.
GiraffeKing: Just a ton of Console.Error.WriteLine() when things don't do what I want, and then examining the output.
llllllllll: but its sometimes hard to debug that one function that runs 23k times a round :P
emh: 1st yay. in Bronze. hehe :p
GiraffeKing: Welcome to Silver, then!
emh: thank you :D
GiraffeKing: The top bots in here are pretty smart. I'm not sure I can even come close to the top 500.
llllllllll: my bot is very dumb & I was around 600 before I messed up my code... so it should be possible :P
AntiSquid: it's Tuesday and there are 6.1k nearly ... geez this contest is big
arkwaw: oh shit i got it
arkwaw: why we have so little combinations ;)
arkwaw: thanks
GiraffeKing: I thought my bot was kinda smart, but it's not thinking very many steps ahead. It doesn't know how many steps away any brew is, it just knows which one has the best gain/cost ratio.
GiraffeKing: So, I think it might actually be pretty dumb.
rohit523: giraffe which league?
GiraffeKing: Silve
GiraffeKing: Silver
rohit523: hmmm
Blend-77: lol I just got into wood 1 I just started today tryna maker an algorithm to do spells :D
rohit523: same lol
Blend-77: make a*
AntiSquid: you can do top 500, even top 300 for sure, the hard part comes this weekend :P
AntiSquid: GiraffeKing
Blend-77: I mean I made one to take all possible actions and depict the best one
Zaphus: Giraffe - mine is similar, only looking 3 moves ahead, still good enough to keep me in the top 250 for now
Blend-77: shouldnt be too hard
GiraffeKing: I donno, this is the first bot I have ever written, so I am not sure I'll get too much better than 1,000. I'm gonna start thinking about trying to make it figure out how many steps away the brews are and use that number to determine which brew is best to go after.
SirLoxley: how long does it usually take before any new submission can be considered somewhat stable concerning rank?
LastRick: Same here. First contest ever, just happy to have made it to Silver.
LastRick: I can put that on the resume now, correct?
GiraffeKing: SirLoxley ; it feels like half an hour
rohit523: lol is there certificate for this xd?
LastRick: HAH
GiraffeKing: My last arena test was 34m ago, and I am 63% done battling.
LastRick: I was under the impression you can leave the arena before it is done and effectively it keeps testing it. Is that so?
GiraffeKing: Yes.
LastRick: Good. Who has the time to sit through that?! :)
GiraffeKing: Nobody. Seriously, at this rate my current run will take an hour.
jamessizeland: yup just took an hour
PatrickMcGinnisII: better than yesterday... was twice as long
LastRick: which stinks. but i guess also a good thing, if i understand the veterans correctly, this contest has been much busier than the average contest
GiraffeKing: Well, it has the Koume and Kotake twins, so who can resist?
Blend-77: I think I know how to do it
PatrickMcGinnisII: K&K meth chemists
Blend-77: simulate the results of the spell and then check if it's the most optimal
Blend-77: perhaps.
LastRick: That's terrible, way off, dont do that
LastRick: :P
Blend-77: lol
rohit523: 90% done and im rank 1 in wood 1.. what does it mean? i still came 2nd to some playerss lol
LastRick: it means welcome to bronze
Blend-77: lol
rohit523: :joy:
GiraffeKing: It means the magic behind score likes you better.
GiraffeKing: I have seriously no idea how the score works.
motty: I have no idea how my wood 1 code got promoted to Bronze. It shouldn't have done.
AntiSquid: i'd pick dexter as my chemist, opponent can have both witches :P
rohit523: Yeeahh lel
AntiSquid: (breaking bad reference btw)
GiraffeKing: Was it? I feel like if you were gonna reference breaking bad, you're want Walter, right?
AntiSquid: oh got shit mixed up hahah
PatrickMcGinnisII: these walter white mofos kicking my butt in 30 turns ... yea, wtf
Astrobytes: Gale was pretty shit hot too
AntiSquid: seen the boys btw ?
AntiSquid: the superhero one
Astrobytes: Not yet, still on the list
AbundantPuddle: Were you referencing Dexter from "Dexter?"
Astrobytes: Quite looking forward to it
AntiSquid: no . mixed up names from 2 different shows AbundantPuddle
AbundantPuddle: The first season was really good Astro
Astrobytes: Either that or Dexter's Laboratory
JamesOConnor: Battle progress takes sooo long
JamesOConnor: I just wanna rank up
AntiSquid: long day . had stuff to do
Astrobytes: Yeah I've heard AbundantPuddle
JamesOConnor: You guys got any tips for the this contest? I think I might try it soon once I have finished the game I am no
JamesOConnor: on*
Blend-77: shit gota do skewl -_-
Redlander: i'm at wood 1; slightly better than the bot, but that seems to be enough :D
Majeck: How many people will get into Gold?
Majeck: I think 600 and up will
LastRick: It was 1000 for silver, right?
Majeck: I'm still not sure if my bot will be able to do it, sitting between 700-800
Majeck: Yeah about 1000 for silver but I think that was mostly a numbers coincidence
LastRick: You're really improving
Majeck: Not really lol
Majeck: Just sheer luck
LastRick: hah
Majeck: This same bot was in 900 yesterday
Majeck: So I don't know whether it faired better in the long run or everyone else got worse lol
LastRick: i'm basically staying the same, as more people come in, i slide back. ALways around 75%
Majeck: 75% what?
LastRick: 75% of the number of people in silver
LastRick: I said to Squid earlier I think peoples code is really improving
hbouillo: Yes, and that's the reason why we slide back a little all the time :D
LastRick: tell me about it!
mlemm: because you spend time chatting :D
LastRick: true
mlemm: jk, have a great day
hbouillo: I'm just here until my bot is properly ranked hehe
mlemm: what rank we talking about hbou
hbouillo: My best bot today got 115th, I'm trying to imrpove but it doesnt go past 300 right now
NinjaDoggy: submits can be pretty random :/
MattSOrme: Being impossible to debug constant random timeouts makes me just want to stop. So demotivated righ now
Majeck: MattSOrme
Majeck: I was having the same problem
Zenoscave: Same here
rwilson: MattSOrme - have you added a 'bail out now i'm almost out of time' check yet?
RockyMullet: reaching depth 8, progress ! :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: try PHP, Whiners!
hbouillo: Timeouts are hard to deal with yep... I don't suppose there is any profiler tools on codingame?
Majeck: At the end of whatever loop/recursion whatever you're doing just check the time and return if it's over 45 ms or something like that
Zenoscave: don't check every time though check every 100th time or so
Majeck: I just get the best answer I can in that time and If I don't find anything I go to a "Plan B"
Zenoscave: time checks are slow
MattSOrme: yep. And ive set it agressively low. Like 25ms. And it still just freezes somewhere. My turns finish anywhere from 25.1ms to 60+ms
Counterbalance: garbage!
Majeck: Zenoscave just a few ns in C#
Majeck: You can doo +10000 in a ms
Zenoscave: Really? with Diagnostics Stopwatch? or are you using a diff method
Counterbalance: print the mem usage each turn and see if it's climbing and falling
Majeck: DateTime.UtcNow
Majeck: lol
dreadylein: Oo
MattSOrme: System.nanoTime and checking it at the start of every loop in my sim
GiraffeKing: My thing finishes at 15ms most of the time; 25ms at the most.
Majeck: I also heard they were slow but I looked it up and StackOverflow said they weren't thaaaat slow
MattSOrme: Also checked Runtime.getRuntime().totalMemory() and says i only have 60mb, instead of the 700+ im meant to
rwilson: MattSOrme - start of loop, as in before or AFTER you read first line of turn input?
Zenoscave: Majeck good to know
MattSOrme: my startTime is set after first input is read
struct: Is DataTime reliable?
struct: I never usd it
Majeck: Zenoscave: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4075525/why-are-datetime-now-datetime-utcnow-so-slow-expensive
rwilson: MattSOrme - :( ugh, sounds like you're possibly hitting a garbage collection pause then ... since it sounds like you're on .. Java?
Majeck: "You can call DateTime.UtcNow ~ 14,000 times for a cost of only 1 millisecond!"
MattSOrme: any tips on how i ... don't hit GC?
Zenoscave: static global array and use ValueTuples
Majeck: Well DateTime hasn't failed me yet
rwilson: MattSOrme - typically, you avoid NEW things ;) make a pool of stuff you want to use, or an array and use stuff from there..
Majeck: Plus after putting it in my main recursive loop it cut timeouts from like 20% of matches to 0
mlemm: anybody here using Bfs ?
jamessizeland: yup
mlemm: worth it ?
MattSOrme: hmm. thats gonna take a lot of re-write im guessing haha. Gonna have to restructure everything if i need to avoid every possible new
jamessizeland: working well enough
mlemm: i regret writing in C lol, but i did it to prove a point to somone
Astrobytes: Which point?
SirLoxley: give us a pointer
mlemm: if i can get some decent rank in few days
garrisonhh: int* p here you go
Remus_: *segfaults*
HackingHues: lol.... submitted my bot. completely falls on its face from 700 to the bottom... lol. guess thats a good place to stop.
Astrobytes: that's a good place to improve
Redlander: bronze league, here i come :)
LastRick: Luckily we cant go backwards
Astrobytes: congrats RedLander
Remus_: We can't? nice
MasterDuck: I have tried to improve my code, but it's too messy. Have anyone just given up and started from scrach, or do you just keep trying?
Remus_: I restarted 4 times now
LastRick: sometimes I try something, like Hacking, and splat it just fails miserably.
RicksMLC: 3.5 times here
LastRick: master, I restarted completely for silver
Majeck: Me too
Majeck: But in Bronze
jamessizeland: always refactor as you go :p
Majeck: Deleted all my logic code and started again
JamieSims: what language are you all using
LastRick: i think you have to. You couldn't predict what bronze or silver was going to be like, what would be important, so you have to start over every now and then
Majeck: Then realized I could use that code as a plan B in case of timeouts lol
Majeck: C#
LastRick: Dart
MasterDuck: ok, you are giving me some more motivation. I really want to come to gold this time. Thanks!
JamieSims: Dart is the way for me
mlemm: ehm C
ParticleBeam: Dictionary of a Tuple of a Tuple of ints pointing to a List of Lists...I think I need to simplify this..
LastRick: really? You're using it too?
Astrobytes: don't give up MasterDuck, keep going ;)
JamieSims: yeah im using dart
LastRick: wow, there's so few of us. Can I ask why? (Flutter developer here)
MasterDuck: Thanks, Astrobytes!
jomarko: Hi, please, does someone know what is the rule to proceed to the next league?
LastRick: no one knows, just try to get as high in silver as possible before tomorrow
JamieSims: yeah haha thats why, ive tried messing round on flutter and thats the one i know the most about
numb3r5: You have to rank above the boss after all the battles are simulated, i think
jomarko: ok, fair enough, will do my best
PatrickMcGinnisII: jomarko full rules at bronze
Astrobytes: jomarko, you're in Bronze right? Be better than the boss as numb3r5 said. If you get in silver and want gold, you need to be near the top of the league
jomarko: yes, I am in the bronze one
Remus_: below like 30% again maybe
mlemm: anybody got an idea what is the highest rank can "if else algorithm" achieve ? just approximation
Astrobytes: jomarko: Cool. You need more points than the boss, that doesn't mean you beat the boss 100%, you have to be better than the other players for the most part
PatrickMcGinnisII: mlemm i got to bronze before i put in a tree
Astrobytes: Depends on your logic mlemm, there have been many people in Legend league in many games with "just" if-else
jomarko: Astrobytes: ok, lets see, simulation is at 50% and it is promising , I am the fifth in rank, but the end is far away still
Astrobytes: well, good luck jomarko!
rohit523: rohit523 has not provided 1 lines in time. Is this message for timeout?
SirLoxley: yes
hbouillo: to our crash
SirLoxley: or crash
rohit523: ohhkay
hbouillo: or*
Astrobytes: your submit looks fine, I think you're going to silver jomarko
rohit523: ooo okay
mlemm: Astro, im thinking about re-coding with c++ because i failed to write a working bfs algorithm with c.
jomarko: Astrobytes: thank you, I found this challenge totaly randomly, but Like it totally
mlemm: the thing is i didn't use c++ for few months and im affraid im gonna take a long time to recode
hbouillo: mlemm Without any kind of simulation I don't think you can get into silver
mlemm: im currently at silver @hbouillo
Astrobytes: Just write C code with C++ advantages where necessary mlemm ;)
hbouillo: Oh that's actually impressive then mlemm !
mlemm: thanks guys, imma go for it good luck !
SelectNull: hbouillo - I'm in the silver withou sim. Just if-else
[CG]Thibaud: no need of sim for silver, even perhaps for gold
Astrobytes: jomarko: awesome! Hope you'll stay and play some multiplayer games after the contest (there are user-created games and most previous contests become multiplayers after the contest ends)
SelectNull: :)
hbouillo: That's good to know!
Remus_: can't find you mlemm :( wanted to see it
hbouillo: I didn't really do the if/else one, so couldn't really tell!
hbouillo: mlemm Nice school :grin:
Astrobytes: [CG]Thibaud that's nice to know, I think I plan to be lazy in this contest :P
SirLoxley: what's sim?
hbouillo: simulation
Astrobytes: A sim is just a simulated tick of the game
Astrobytes: So, apply a move, simulate the result
Astrobytes: tick == turn
Astrobytes: You implement the mechanics of the game and apply them when you try a move
garrisonhh: does anyone know how to turn off the code suggestion
garrisonhh: or can u not
Astrobytes: Don't think so I'm afraid, I know it's a bugbear for a lot of people
SirLoxley: just did. It's in the settings
SirLoxley: (Beneath leaderboard)
Astrobytes: "Accept suggestion on Enter key" ?
SirLoxley: having said that I don't use the editor. I am copy&past guy
SirLoxley: paste, too
Astrobytes: Pasta type myself :P
Zenoscave: I eat more paste than paste
Zenoscave: pasta*
Astrobytes: Yeah, that doesn't switch it off unfortunately
Zenoscave: I'll let you decide which i meant
Astrobytes: When I visit Sweden I eat more paste than pasta :thinking:
Zenoscave: Same in the us
Zenoscave: But I like cow hoofs
mlemm: i like water
Astrobytes: Hey, cow feet are cool. Well they were when I ate meat lol. Good ones are excellent incgredients. Just not in processed meat products.
Astrobytes: *ingredients
Zenoscave: I eat glue
Astrobytes: Fishbones!
mlemm: what's the most random thing you can eat
Astrobytes: Something you don't know about that someone you don't know just told you to eat.
mlemm: i eat lamp shades
Zenoscave: Given most edible things are uninteresting the chances are uninteresting
phord: I keep pressing ^S to save before I run and my browsers asks me where to save. :-( How do I untrain me or train the editor to stop this?
Zenoscave: If the random is uniformly distributed
mlemm: im no more hungry now thank you zeno
Astrobytes: lol Zeno. Not a food person then :D
Zenoscave: I love food
Zenoscave: But a hamburger is meant for eating.
mlemm: you said "Given most edible things are uninteresting"
Zenoscave: A lamp shade is more interesting though
Zenoscave: perhaps uninteresting is the wrong word
Astrobytes: Heh
mlemm: i recently pickedup a habit on eating 2 apples a day
Astrobytes: "statistically unusual in the group of eaten substances"
mlemm: and man it really changes a lot
Zenoscave: A thesis
SpaceMoehre: does this website have a dark theme?
Zenoscave: It has a light?
mlemm: i think yes since im using one
Zenoscave: I forgot
Astrobytes: ^
RicksMLC: "Settings"
mlemm: define us "dark theme"
RicksMLC: over there <----
Zenoscave: play my code? RicksMLC
RicksMLC: Zeno: I would if mine was working right now
RicksMLC: I am 0.5 of the way into refactoring for the 3rd time
RicksMLC: *sigh*
mlemm: take a deep breath it helps
mlemm: im going to recode mine too the next morning
Zenoscave: but not too many too fast
Zenoscave: that's hyperventilating
Astrobytes: Well, good luck to you all, I bid you goodnight.
Zenoscave: Gn astro
RicksMLC: g'night
mlemm: goodnight Astro!
mlemm: im leaving aswell best of luck guys.
RicksMLC: Zeno: but but but, ... the sun just came up... again.
Zenoscave: It's 16:16 here
RicksMLC: Actually Zeno, I don't know how to play your code
Zenoscave: wdym?
RicksMLC: I am very new here (joined three days ago)
Zenoscave: Oh do you mean against my code?
RicksMLC: Zeno: play my code? RicksMLC
RicksMLC: I think so... I have almost some idea of what I am doing here
Zenoscave: use export mode under settings. it allows you to change your opponent
mlemm: click delete button bellow the bot avatar
RicksMLC: ok...
mlemm: nvm he knows better
RicksMLC: Ok I can select a new agent, but your name is not in the list?
RicksMLC: I am in Bronze... so is that a limiting factor?
RicksMLC: The list of agents only goes up to 999, and my current rank is 1,028
RicksMLC: so... I dunno
RicksMLC: Ugh I have so much dead/commented out code in here...
RicksMLC: hard to move around
JamieSims: very hard
JamieSims: what code language are you using
RicksMLC: c#
TimurSeitosmanov: is there a way to measure time in js in submitted solution?
SirLoxley: Rank 243/Bronze and I am out of ideas. Guess it's time to stop here
Braykin08: Look at your losses, see why you lost, improve. Are you getting too few spells, crafting the wrong potions, getting beat to a potion
LastRick: Seeing that -- getting beat to a potion -- a LOT more in silver
Braykin08: Guess I'll need to improve my REST efficency once I reach that I guess
ElderKamikaze: hey
ToshiTuringMachine: hey
ToshiTuringMachine: is really Response time for the first turn ≤ 1000ms ? i get timeouts at 500
ClockSort: I haven't pushed the limits of the first turn
LastRick: yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I pretty much always LEARN on the first turn (so hard to find a brew with the starting spells) that I never run out of time
ToshiTuringMachine: I guess it's dart language that has issues with datetime.now() . I am trying stopwatch now
MarekM: ToshiTuringMachine i am safe at 800ms in python in first round
ToshiTuringMachine: ty marekM
Majeck: What do you use the first turn for?
MarekM: and three seconds before first input :)
ToshiTuringMachine: not very much, get together potions and learnable spells to guess the fastest brew-in
MarekM: its not useful yet, but i try to precompute sth
LastRick: I am using Dart. I use DateTime to track my BFS. But like I said, the BFS is nearly pointless on the first turn, I checked every possible combination in 3 ms.
Recovery_disaster: Memo to me: pythons deepcopy is very slow ... wasted the last two days wonderung why I only get 500 BFS nodes in time -.-
ToshiTuringMachine: nice lastrick! and how many sims can you do in one turn?
ToshiTuringMachine: I am hitting 22k
Majeck: Do repeatable spells become exhausted after the turn?
LastRick: I cap my search on time but yes over 10k
Majeck: I know I can use them several times in the same turn, but after that do they become exhausted
ToshiTuringMachine: yes they do majeck
Majeck: Thanks
Majeck: Redesigning my main recursive method to account for repeatable and castable lol
Samer: Majeck I think you can use them once in a turn, but with a multiplier parameter (if your inventory can afford it)
LastRick: That must be why you're beating me, majeck, using that repeatable
Majeck: Not yet
LastRick: me neither
Majeck: If I had to guess I'd say I'm beating you because I explore more possibilities
Majeck: around 60-70k with 45 ms
Majeck: But the arena doesn't like me at the moment and got me from 730 -> 890 with no changes to my bot lol
LastRick: That's impressive! Wow.
Majeck: In any case I'd like to be sub-600 so that I can safely get into gold
Majeck: LastRick Yeahhh although it's a really simple recursive method
LastRick: I know Dart's not the best for this but it's my language and I want to see how far I can push it
Majeck: Don't even know what DFS/BFS is lol
ToshiTuringMachine: google it, its interesting
LastRick: Before codingame, I hadn't seen a BFS in I can't guess how long. But if you do a lot of the IN/OUT puzzles here, it becomes your best friend
ToshiTuringMachine: lastrick me too! are you flutter dev?
LastRick: Toshi: Yes
MarekM: Anybody Monte Carlo algo? :)
LastRick: HAH
ToshiTuringMachine: well don't fear me because i never win. and i already have the badge for language winner with dart
LastRick: Wtg
ToshiTuringMachine: if you don't c++ here it's very hard to get in legend
LastRick: ugh. thanks for the warning.
struct: There are more languages that will get legend im sure
Blend-77: I'm tryna do it all in python for an extra challenge
Recovery_disaster: C# and Rust is also strong
Majeck: What's flutter dev?
DreadY2K: Does the game show the number of potions a player has brewed so far?
struct: C#, Rust, java, maybe python
DreadY2K: I'd like to use that info, but I can't find it listed in the input
Topjimmies: pretty easy to keep track
DreadY2K: I could track it myself, but I want to be lazy
Majeck: DreadY2K no, but you can use score
LastRick: my favorite is clash of code shortest. OMG try to play that in Dart. You cant even read the input before Ruby has you beat.
struct: Do if(currentScore != previousScore) brewed++
DreadY2K: Hmph, I guess I can track changes to score
DreadY2K: I wanted to be lazy and read it in, but I guess this works
ToshiTuringMachine: yeah lastrick, dart is not fit for golf
LastRick: Majeck: FLutter is googles multi-platform app/web development (Dart is the language it uses)
ToshiTuringMachine: but js is pretty good and very similar to Dart
Topjimmies: the final rule changes the time allowance to 5ms instead :joy:
ToshiTuringMachine: final rule change? don't scare me
Topjimmies: better get to work on that Neural network solution
Majeck: No oh god
LastRick: hah
Majeck: I already feel so constricted with it being 50ms instead of 100
LastRick: you have to pick one brew and hope you can snake a path there
ToshiTuringMachine: we should be able to steal opponent's spells....
Majeck: Or make spells have actions
Topjimmies: you can only steal uncastable spells
LastRick: that OR I thought when we were still in wood and you could see the opponents cast, I thought we were going to be able to do things to their inventory
Majeck: Imagine how cool a "Swap inventories with opponent" spell be
LastRick: yeah, like tha
ToshiTuringMachine: yeah cool
Majeck: Or Freeze Opponent for 3 turns
Topjimmies: destroy target brew
Arzugar: Or steal ingredients of something like that
Majeck: Yeah
Majeck: Would make it much more heuristic based
Majeck: And a lot less sim based as is know
LastRick: Not that I don't like this game (I certainly do) but yeah, some of these ideas would have added a different aspect. DO I just make brews (play offense) or do I attack my opponent?
Majeck: I've gotta admit this contest is heavily penalized to if/elsers
LastRick: Majeck: IF/ELSE Fan CLub President, apparently
EnzoAbalos: hello
Majeck: Like I don't even think you can get to silver without doing some sort of sim
struct: well as a pro, the game is very simple to simulate
Topjimmies: I got to silver with 2 turn sim
Majeck: LastRick in all other contests I've been able to squeeze into Silver with just simple if/elses
Majeck: Not this time though lol
LastRick: i agree. I think to escape bronze I needed at least a few steps of search
Majeck: Got a headache even thinking about how to choose a spell without simulating all possibilities
Majeck: struct yeah, I'm jealous of you all using bitmaps and stuff
ToshiTuringMachine: fitness function
LastRick: learn about a bfs queue, it'll do that heavy lifting for you.
struct: im not using bitmaps
struct: and I get quite a good ammount of sims
Topjimmies: I just see if you can brew after a cast and otherwise choose a random cast/learn
Majeck: Do you use int arrays?
struct: 1 int to store 4 igredients
LastRick: Majeck: That is what your question back in bronze was about.
LastRick: how to store all the ingredients as one
struct: but before i was using 4 int8_t
Majeck: I've been puzzling on how to use a single int instead of an array for days
Majeck: Doing so would speed things up immensely if I could use binary operators
Arzugar: And here I am, using python when you are trying to store 4 int in one to optimise your code
Topjimmies: same
Majeck: lol yep
LastRick: I think i understand how to hold all four inventory spots in one number. What I can't picture yet is how to know if that one-number inventory is good enough to cast or brew
struct: to subtract ingredients from another
struct: i can just do int a - int b
Majeck: I mean I figured out you could use 4 * 5 bits
struct: instead of a[0] - b[0], a[1] - b[1] ...
Majeck: struct YOU'RE A GENIUS
struct: lol
struct: im not
struct: This was someone else idea in chat
Majeck: Oh ok
struct: And I think more people are using them
Majeck: Wait
Majeck: omg
Majeck: I could totally do that
Majeck: Just use 4 * 5 bits
Majeck: And use the 5th bit to test for negatives
Majeck: Will try to do some simpler stuff before though
struct: well I use 7th bit
Icebox: just hardcode every state Omegalul
Majeck: Like acknowledging my opponent's existence lol
struct: which is simpler
LastRick: Are you going to try to sim them too?
struct: and to check for negatives I just do an &&
struct: &
Icebox: wait my mod icon is gone again
Icebox: reee
struct: again?
LastRick: is that bad? or good?
Icebox: yes
LastRick: hah
Arzugar: :joy:
Icebox: yesterday they did some form of restart
Icebox: which made it dissapear
Majeck: so 7*4 and you store them in a simple int32 struct
struct: actually 8x4
struct: Because the 7th is the "8"
Majeck: Ohhhh
struct: I started counting from 0
Majeck: lol
Majeck: Oh and if it's invalid it'll just under/over flow to the next and you'll know something is wrong
LastRick: did they decide they no longer needed you on the mod team?
Majeck: That's genius!
Icebox: LastRick no, it's a visual error
LastRick: oh. I was hoping it involved something nefarious you had done
mojojojo: does the price include the urgency bonus?
Icebox: well yes, that too of course. I've been secretly hacking into their servers and stealing code from top players
rwilson: mojojojo - yes
mojojojo: okay
Icebox: funny story regarding doing "something nefarious"
Icebox: my first contact with the CG team
Arzugar: Yes, story time !!!
Icebox: was an email from them asking me whether I've been botting on clash
LastRick: :astonished:
Arzugar: and, you were ?
ScriptKiddie0101: i will hack you all :rage:
Icebox: there was a huge problem with CoC
LastRick: hahahah
Icebox: where there were 3 or 5 guys
Icebox: who made perfect CoC solvers
ScriptKiddie0101: hack me if you can :rage:
Icebox: and could submit in 1 sec every single clash
ToshiTuringMachine: thats nefarius
Icebox: at the same time I've been trying to reach rank 1 on CoC leaderboard
LastRick: and pointless
ToshiTuringMachine: put a random wait on it lol
Icebox: and while i didn't "bot" I had my own clash database with solutions for every single clash in case of shortest
LastRick: oh yeah, you're pretty high i see
Icebox: and they noticed that very quickly :D
Icebox: that was like 3 years ago
LastRick: interesting
LastRick: so they had picked up on the fact you were using repeat code or using code quickly, i guess?
Icebox: no idea how they noticed it
Arzugar: And, so, that database, how can I get my hands on it ? Asking for a friend.
Icebox: Arzugar the amount of clashse since then have probably quadrupled
Icebox: clashes*
Icebox: so it's useless now :D
Arzugar: hoooo, so sad
Icebox: but I have to say
Icebox: I've been speaking at that time with some other bot devs
struct: I remember seeing a website with all the solutions
struct: for shortest
struct: Was it yours?
ToshiTuringMachine: disgusting
Icebox: no, I never shared it struct
Icebox: I actually apologized directly after the email for pasting solutions for some clashes and took a couple month break from CoC after that
Icebox: then still got top 10 legitimately in 2019 :p
Icebox: but man, decay sucked back then
Icebox: now it's bearable
LastRick: its different now?
Icebox: yeah they changed it
LastRick: slower i take it?
struct: Back when I played CoC, I knew most of them by hearth
Icebox: yeah struct, that's legit the trick :D
struct: It was disgusting
Icebox: basically at some point they start repeating
struct: I only saw first line of inputs and output and knew the answer
Icebox: there were some clashes
Icebox: that you could solve in 5 seconds legit
struct: true
Icebox: especially in shortest
LastRick: Stop by the contribution page and check them out, they never stop coming.
struct: while(N--)
Icebox: or struct
Icebox: 1 million question
Icebox: DNA replace code
Icebox: do you know the shortest code for that?
Icebox: :D
struct: What was it like the question?
Scorpio69t: hello,world
struct: hi
Icebox: atp to adp or something like that
Icebox: there was an 8 char solution in bash
struct: There were some crazy bash solutions
struct: that I memorized at the time
struct: Just to solve the problems
Icebox: there was also a famous one
Icebox: print<*64>
struct: `seq 1 2` or whatever it was
struct: Something like that
struct: `dd` ...
NoobCod3: guys I'm coding with my mechanical keyboard and my hacker mask LOL in the Clash Of Code
struct: something
struct: But I learned a few dirty tricks from CoC
NoobCod3: and i have 2 computers
Icebox: oh sorry I meant
NoobCod3: but the other one isn't charged
Icebox: DNA to RNA
Icebox: that was the task
Arzugar: I mean, now, if you really wanted to, you can maybe do a bot who would play and lose his firsts games and steal others players solution, and by playing multiple games at the same time, maybe it would be possible to know them all.
Icebox: the code was `tr a u` or something like that
Icebox: :D
AbundantPuddle: Yeah, CoC is good for picking up dirty tricks that would generally be frowned upon.
Icebox: AbundantPuddle tbh I found a very good use for CoC
NoobCod3: could anybody teach me how to code in Python 3?
Icebox: and it's to get comfy with a new language
Icebox: if you can win all fastest clashes with a language you're pretty much good to go
Icebox: without switching
Icebox: it made me learn like half of C++ standard library
Icebox: once I tried playing CoC with C++ only
struct: you learned c++ on CoC?
NoobCod3: I NEED SOMEBODY TO HELP ME CODE
NoobCod3: IN PYTHON 3
NoobCod3: PLZ
Icebox: I wouldn't call it learning
NoobCod3: srry caps
LastRick: I completed the entire Clash tree on the home page with Dart. I consider that my crowning achievement on this site.
AbundantPuddle: Oh yeah, I mean I actually really like CoC. But there have been quite a few times where I won and genuinely felt bad because others were following good practice. That being said, I also have viewed others' code and discovered some nifty little tricks myself.
ToshiTuringMachine: wow gg LastRick
Icebox: I trained my skills that I learned using CoC struct
ToshiTuringMachine: I never completed that
AbundantPuddle: I wish everyone just shared their code by default however, because there have been some matches where I was dumbfounded by the #1 spot, and couldn't view their code.
LastRick: The toughest part is definitely winning 3 in a row.
LastRick: yeah, people dont want to share because they're probably trying to get to the top. I often dont share because i know no one wants it :)
Icebox: struct, especially if you're not learning your first language and you restrict yourself to it, you might have a feeling how you'd do it in a language that you're familiar with... then you think is there a similar function in that language as well? Makes you learn the in-built functions
ToshiTuringMachine: you cannot force people to share
Icebox: tbh CoC is the sole reason I could probably list all in-built functions of Python in a beat :D
Icebox: also you learn to read code from other languages
Icebox: maybe with exception of bash and perl :D
AbundantPuddle: Yeah, if I don't complete the challenge in time, I won't share. Otherwise I'll share. At the very least, people could use it to see how not to code. xp
LastRick: hah
Majeck: I always share except for shortest
Majeck: I used to play CoC for years only in C#
Icebox: shortest is the only type where it matters :D
LastRick: makes sense in a way
struct: I share it even if I use ruby and bash in the same language
Majeck: The amount of tricks for golfing in C# that I learned are insane
Icebox: true
struct: `tail -1`
Icebox: you get to learn the language in a completely different way
struct: p`dd`[2..].stuff
ClockSort: what's the best language for CoC golfing?
struct: bash perl ruby python javascript
struct: on that order maybe
struct: javascript is not great though
Majeck: Once I discovered the golfing competitive puzzles a few weeks ago I'm like top 20% in all of them thanks to C# lol
LastRick: of the top 3 you listed, ruby is probably the one i see the most in coc
Icebox: +1 struct
Majeck: Love ya C#
Icebox: LastRick you would never with with ruby against someone who is skilled with bash or perl
Icebox: it's just not that many people
Icebox: who can do that
LastRick: exactly
Majeck: I think bash doesn't even let you multiply
Majeck: it's crazy
LastRick: WHAT!?
Icebox: and even then
Icebox: as much as I learned
Icebox: about golfing
Icebox: and python
Icebox: there are people who are on a completely different level
struct: ^
Icebox: for example
Icebox: Thor
Icebox: right now (after the update)
Icebox: I have a 74 char submission
Majeck: No wait, I think I was thinking of another language not sure
Icebox: which puts me at top #5 in python
Icebox: first place has 51 chars
Icebox: which is
Icebox: like
struct: Nice I have one char less than you on temps with perl IceBox
phord: echo $(( 6 * 7))
42
Icebox: struct I never worked on temps
Icebox: never worked implies never tried reverse engineering test cases that is :^)
struct: Never did that too
struct: to much work
Icebox: yeah but that's the only way
struct: 47-perl, 48-ruby
struct: with legit solutions
struct: legit if you count running bash on ruby
Icebox: huh
Icebox: holdup
struct: :D
Icebox: lol
Icebox: I looked up my pash solution
Icebox: bash
Icebox: perl -e'...
Icebox: oops
Icebox: :D
ToshiTuringMachine: guys why you like golf? it makes you learn how to reduce chars... totally useless in real jobs
DreadY2K: It's a fun challenge, even if it isn't directly useful
struct: its for fun
ToshiTuringMachine: and golfed solutions are usually awful
Icebox: ToshiTuringMachine why do you learn chess? it's uselss in real jobs as well
struct: I dont do everything to get jobs
ZarthaxX: you do it to get chicks
rwilson: Though, golfing also makes you understand your languages better - usually to understand WEIRD issues and spot things to avoid
ToshiTuringMachine: hi ZarthaxX
Icebox: brings your pickup lines to a whole different level
ToshiTuringMachine: find me a girl who understand code golf i will marry her
Icebox: when you put everything on the same line to save chars
Icebox: kappa
ZarthaxX: HI ToshiTuringMachine
Icebox: another fun story
Icebox: there are other websites
ToshiTuringMachine: yeah... story time
Icebox: that have golf
Icebox: the difference in some however
Icebox: is they don't count whitespaces and newlines
Icebox: so that you don't have to completely fuck your code up
Icebox: so big brain me, just made a string full of whitespates representing 0 and newlines representing 1 and encoded full solution in binary
struct: also some count bytes
struct: lol Icebox
Icebox: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ToshiTuringMachine: wooow icebox. pretty cheater
Icebox: another fun solution for some tasks is resubmitting code
Icebox: that outputs valid but random solutions
Icebox: err actions
Icebox: that could be potentially shorter than solving the task
struct: so you submit until you get lucky?
Icebox: and one in maybe a couple of hundred will pass all test cases
Icebox: yes
Icebox: I know there are people who have done it on thor
Icebox: there are only 4 validators
LastRick: about to say that, i think thats how to pass thor here
Icebox: so it takes like 300 submits
Icebox: which isn't that much
Icebox: LastRick the thing is, remember me saying the 51char solution is insane?
Icebox: python doesn't support randomness without importing it
LastRick: yep
Icebox: so importing alone is pretty much as long as the solution :D
Icebox: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b7e50407-f144-4ae2-9607-a761609d7a98
Icebox: that alone is like 40 chars
Icebox: and that's without print()
Icebox: dude I'd sell my newborn to find out how he did it :/
Icebox: ok maybe not that
Icebox: but still
Icebox: ANOTHER FUN STORY
Icebox: I remember talking with a buddy like a month ago
Icebox: how thor could be solved
Icebox: with like this insane amout of chras
Icebox: chars*
struct: I never figured how to reduce thor code
Icebox: and we legit considered using LRZ which is munichs largest computer center with supercomputers etc. to bruteforce every legal code that compiles under 52 chars
Icebox: maybe write a scientific paper about so that my uni lets me do that
Icebox: but hey
ToshiTuringMachine: i think they should erase all solutions and add some validators so the random-cheaters would not win
Icebox: ToshiTuringMachine ok you're about to be really dissapointed by this
Icebox: but that would legit
Icebox: break everyone's code
Icebox: not only random guys
Icebox: since top guys have reverse engineered all validators we legit don't read input fully
ToshiTuringMachine: they just resubmit
Icebox: nonono
Icebox: you don't get it
Icebox: the top solutions are specifically for the 4 validators
Icebox: one example for thor is
struct: My code doesnt even go north
Icebox: yeah
Icebox: for example that
Icebox: except it's west
Icebox: err east I mean
Icebox: no, west
struct: isnt it north?
Arzugar: South ?
Icebox: nope
Icebox: 2nd validator is north
Westicles: Golf could be easily fixed by adding a bunch of validators and making the paths to all the system calls 100 characters
ToshiTuringMachine: who cares? if the problem is hardcodable, it is not a problem and there's an issue with it
Icebox: how is that an issue?
Icebox: I don't understand what's the problem with creative solutions
struct: Golfing is not to be taken seriously
ToshiTuringMachine: the programmer must solve problems for all inputs (in real life) not for 4 validators
struct: Its for fun
Icebox: ToshiTuringMachine this isn't real life
Icebox: why do you keep comparing a game with real life
struct: Soon we need to check if the input is valid
struct: and does not break our code
Icebox: struct wdym?
struct: In real life we need to be carefull about what the user will do
Icebox: oh yeah
Icebox: I mean I don't get the whole idea of comparing a for fun activity with job environment :D
Icebox: but sure
struct: golf was never meant for it
Icebox: yup
struct: Doesnt matter if its 4 or 1000 validators
struct: Top code will always be a mess
Icebox: I'm not sure if I remember correctly
Icebox: but either on CG or some other website
Icebox: the top code was a call to a server
Icebox: which would return solution
Icebox: until the website dissalowed calls
Icebox: to external websites
Westicles: That was CG
ToshiTuringMachine: so since its a game its correct to hardcode solutions? CG rules state clearly that you can be banned
struct: I think it worked on cG
Icebox: yeah
Icebox: ToshiTuringMachine what?
Icebox: banned for what?
Icebox: I would love to see that rule
Icebox: can you link me the source from where you got this?
Westicles: The official position is anything goes. It is in a forum post
Icebox: yeah I'm quite concerned with the pure missinformation coming from you ToshiTuringMachine
Icebox: you can NOT get banned for hardcoding anything
Icebox: in no way or form does that hurt anyone
struct: Everyone can do it
struct: is fair game
ToshiTuringMachine: By participating in a CodinGame Contest, all Participants shall refrain from cheating, faking, thieving identity or any other technique to change the result of the Contest.
Icebox: a) those are not contests
ToshiTuringMachine: "misinformation"
Icebox: b) hardcoding isn't listed
struct: lol
Icebox: yes, you're spreading missinformation, the fact that you can get banned is a blatant lie
Majeck: Yeah hardcoding is allowed for code golf
sadakatsu: Hardcoding is not the same thing as using a solution you found somewhere else.
ToshiTuringMachine: for me it still is cheating. if you get fun cheating you are not a programmer, just a hacker who destroy other people self esteem with your tricks.
ToshiTuringMachine: but hey, your style of fun. do whatever
sadakatsu: Funny, the lead programmer at Big Huge Games once said that actual programmers cheat all the time, including on academic tests and projects. I strongly disagreed, but the severe difference in those opinions amuses me.
Skynse: Imagine cheating
Icebox: "Cheating generally describes various actions designed to subvert rules in order to obtain _unfair advantages_." Since we already made clear that it's perfectly fine to hardcode, how is that an "unfair" advantage?
Icebox: definition taken from wiki
Icebox: there is no rule against hardcoding
JamesOConnor: You are right
Majeck: I mean I don't like hardcoding nor am I in favour of it
Majeck: But if it works it works
ScriptKiddie0101: what is hardcoding?
struct: I dont get why people are taking code golf seriously
struct: I even hardcoded CvZ
sadakatsu: `int random_integer() { return 4; }`
Majeck: if(input == "a") print("b") else if (input == "b") print("c")
struct: Its stuff that no one cares about
Icebox: ScriptKiddie0101 instead of writing the code that solves the problem you wrote code that solves the specific cases that test your program
Majeck: Yes
Rodrigo_the_coder: print("Help me")
sadakatsu: Technically, hardcoding is an important part of TDD. You WANT to hardcode until you can actually produce a test that breaks any possible hardcoded solutions.
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8db050e3-68b9-4a9d-b427-425d8a00a4f6
Icebox: imagine if I were to test you if you know what is 9x9 and 2x5. You could learn how to multiply or you could learn the answers to those two questions
struct: That is from CvZ
rwilson: can we let world chat go back to contest talk & shenanigans?
CG says 'MEH' about hardcoding : https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/rules-of-the-code-golf-and-optimization-challenges/187258/5
struct: Its 500 lines of that
struct: I have 454 prints
struct: for 21 validatosr
Rodrigo_the_coder: any idea for cvz in python
Icebox: struct, correct me if I'm wrong but 2048 can be _fully_ hardcoded, right?
struct: too many validators
Icebox: is it tho?
struct: yes
DomiKo: yes
DomiKo: I guess you can't reach 4Mln
DomiKo: with full hardcode
Icebox: hmm
struct: I think somone said 7
struct: on discord
DomiKo: sorry
DomiKo: 14 mln
DomiKo: not 4
Icebox: interesting
Icebox: haven't tried 2048 yet
Icebox: but I thought about whether it would be possible (file size wise)
NoobCod3: guys
NoobCod3: I'm on my second computer
NoobCod3: I'm on both of them
NoobCod3: LOL
struct: oh well, it was fun
struct: Im going to sleep now
struct: gn
Icebox: :wave:
Icebox: gn
DomiKo: gn
Majeck: I hate how "Fixing" my code just plunges me further down the leaderboard lol
NoobCod3: OOF
NoobCod3: guys join CLASH OF CODE
NoobCod3: plz
RicksMLC: "Software development is an evolutionary process - sometimes a meteor is involved."
NoobCod3: l need someone to help me learn Python
LastRick: Majeck I try something that I think will surely make it better ---> drop to bottom
Majeck: I know right!
Icebox: NoobCod3 that's quite the bad timing since everyone is working on the contest
Icebox: you do have enough materials online to learn everything by yourself
NoobCod3: BAD TIMING?
NoobCod3: AND WHAT CONTESt?
Icebox: correct
LastRick: I'll admit it, I just can't incorporate REST into the middle of a search. It looks like others are doing it, but every time I try to implement it, SPLAT
NoobCod3: the fall?
Icebox: Fall Challenge
Icebox: yes
NoobCod3: @Icebox can you help me learn Python 3?
NoobCod3: I am noob
Icebox: yes I can
NoobCod3: like right now
Icebox: step 1: https://docs.python.org/3/
Icebox: read this through
NoobCod3: hold on
Majeck: Hahahhahaahahha
Majeck: =D
Icebox: then you can ask me if you have any questions
NoobCod3: ok im gonna read it rn
NoobCod3: tutorial?
Icebox: yeah you can start from there
NoobCod3: ok
Mr_Robooot: are there any high ranked people in the silver league with only 'if else' statements?
Majeck: No
Icebox: depends what you mean with high ranked
Majeck: Everyone's doing sims as far as I know
MadAsAJazzer: ah yes, those things I definitely know how to use *furious googling ensues*
Majeck: simulations
Mr_Robooot: :( well i guess i should rewrite my code all over again now
MadAsAJazzer: oof :/
LastRick: i would think it would be nearly impossible to pass silver without a BFS or similarly search. You have to figure out how to get to the big prizes even when they are many steps away
Majeck: Exactly!
Icebox: disagree
LastRick: i'm listening
Icebox: functional programming can get you to legend here
Icebox: if you see all spells as mathematical operations you can "solve for" the spells that you need to cast
LastRick: oh i thought you were disagreeing about needing to when the big prizes
jrke: in this contest you can many things simulation,GA,BFS,etc
LastRick: i agree, just pick the tool you feel comfortable with
Icebox: I disagree about search
Icebox: I think math gets here far
LastRick: sorry for the confusion then
phord: 4-dimensional math with small domains.
LastRick: i just mean you can't win by trying to be the first to six
ndosm: sorry what does GA stand for?
Icebox: Genetic Algorithm
ndosm: thank you
jrke: Genetic algorithm
Icebox: precisely phord
Icebox: imo if you implement that cleanly that could potentially be stronger than simulating the game
jrke: Boxy you were first at one moment right?
MoMaT: NoobCod3, f you know some other programming language and trying to pickup Python, see this: http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html
Icebox: yes jrke
Icebox: I'm not submitting my code rn tho
Icebox: I'll wait until legend opens
jrke: cool
jrke: i am also thinking to don't make submit until my bot in ide is 100% better than bot in arena
Icebox: as long as you're high enough to get promoted when new league comes out there is no reason whatsoever to submit
Icebox: top players tend to hide their codes till the last minute
Icebox: and just play millions of games offline with brutaltester
Icebox: to see if they are improving
LastRick: How silly
Icebox: quite smart tbh, if you're winning against everyone it's hard to improve your code
Icebox: if someone who has a better bot doesn't submit you can not find out WHY that bot is better
LastRick: its a game. Miss out on all the fun of this because you want to win? That's outrageous.
hbouillo: But on the same logic, you can't find out if others' bots are better than yours, can you?
Icebox: hbouillo that's what brutaltester is for
Icebox: also you can still play against others in the website without submitting
hbouillo: Does it allow you to play other people's bots?
Icebox: yes
hbouillo: LastRick it's a game, yes, but a competitive one :)
NoobCod3: =
LastRick: apparently
hbouillo: Also, Icebox, I don't know the details of GA, but from what I know it can't be better than a simulation, if the simulation is properly accurate, can it?
Icebox: oh you use both
Icebox: GA is just an algorithm to process the data from your simulation
hbouillo: What can GA add that simulation doesn't?
Icebox: simulation alone can nothing
Icebox: simulation just gives you data to work with
Icebox: simulation is not an algorithm
sadakatsu: Evaluating a GA solution requires simulation, anyway ^_^;
hbouillo: ^^^
Icebox: precisely
Poli2312: Hi
Poli2312: Im new i started coding today
Icebox: whether you process the information that you get from simulating the game using GA or something else is up to you
dreadylein: good luck and have fun
Poli2312: It look easy
hbouillo: Isn't GA basically simulating in a controlled-random way?
Poli2312: wait someone won
dreadylein: huh ?
dreadylein: well simulation is a part of ga if thats the question :)
Icebox: I think you're missunderstanding what simulation and what GA do
dreadylein: simulation or otherwise evaluting the fitness
hbouillo: I'm confused about GA, I'll need to do more research on it haha
Icebox: simulating does nothing else besides showing you what action leads to what state
Icebox: now how do you decide which actions do you wanna simulate?
Icebox: that's where GA comes into play
dreadylein: ga basicly mimics evolution, you create a opulation of solution , then add random changes, and cross them, check which has the highest fitness, rinse repeate
dreadylein: *population
hbouillo: Oh, I see the technical difference you put between GA and simulation
Icebox: you could use GA to generate populations of actions that will progressively get better, you could use monte carlo tree search to find a very good path that leads you to victory, you could use BFS to test ALL actions or you could use something completely different
hbouillo: And now I do agree that a GA algorithm could own the contest :thumbsup:
dreadylein: i doubt it :P
Icebox: in the end all of those algorithms just tell the sim what to check
Icebox: what to simulate
dreadylein: ga is a neat class, but nearly always there is something thats better suited
hbouillo: I doubht it'd be fast enough though
jrke: hbouillo you need good eval for that
jrke: and optimized code
Icebox: ^
Icebox: how many states can you simulate in 50 ms?
dreadylein: optimized code doesent help if you have a bad evalution ... i heard from soneone :P :D
hbouillo: Yeah the eval function is a critical point :D
dreadylein: iam terrible when it comes to crafting heuristics
jrke: i am getting avg 15k iterations for simulation per turn in 50ms depth5
dreadylein: and choose a algo that needs a REALY good one :D like a boss ^^
kreska: i have a question are you guys frustrated when you debug soething for 5 hours because i have problem coping emotionally:D Right now im happy because i finally found the bugs but i was raging inside and outside
Icebox: welcome to the club kreska
dreadylein: no worries it gets better .. after a decade or two, then you realize you can anoy other people with it also ! :)
hbouillo: kreska usually "raging" out loud is what leads me to find the bug haha
Xenoid: I think GA is better for continuous games, not discrete ones
dreadylein: true
sadakatsu: It's a lousy club, since WE'RE members, but welcome anyways.
Xenoid: being off by one ingredient from the potion you need is not particularly close to being as good as being on target
kreska: but i swear a lot this is my problem
sadakatsu: Same here. Any solutions?
Xenoid: so mutations are just going to destroy anything good about an existing solution
dreadylein: cant remember if there was a contest were ga was optimal
Icebox: CSB
Icebox: :)
dreadylein: no
dreadylein: people won with it
Xenoid: GA is good for physics-based games, I think
dreadylein: its far from optimal
jrke: CSB is evergreen
hbouillo: Well GA is probably the slowest way to solve any of the contests
Xenoid: vector math is probably better
jrke: you can use anything in CSB
Icebox: you can use NN in CSB
dreadylein: true and then get butchered by nns :P
dreadylein: csb was cool
dreadylein: afaik the top went
dreadylein: ga after contest
dreadylein: later minmax
dreadylein: then nns
hbouillo: nns?
Icebox: Neural Network
motty: kreska: this is the shape of things. been debugging my own crappy code for... more decades than I want to admit to... it never ends, it's just how it is. first you write the code, then you debug it.
hbouillo: Why the S
Icebox: Neural NetworkS
dreadylein: neural networks that were trained with reeinforment
hbouillo: haha
Batpapa: 15k simulations in 50ms? I can barely make 3k.. :'(
dreadylein: huh ..
Batpapa: I can even remember fighting someone doing up to 30k
LLG: what's the tomeIndex of learned spells?
jrke: none it comes in you cast spell then LLG
Icebox: -1
LLG: thanks for the help!!
Batpapa: 0 = bottom spell, ..., 5 = top
Icebox: for learned spells Batpapa
Icebox: for learned ones it's -1
Batpapa: sorry
Batpapa: surer
Batpapa: sure
Batpapa: Are you all here going for MCTS?
dreadylein: iam not
NoobCod3: hey guys wanna be friends or no?
NoobCod3: cause l want friends
motty: we're all friends here, NoobCod3 :)
Batpapa: dreadylein ok, what then? Just to have a clue on what people try :)
dreadylein: beamsearch
Batpapa: ok thx, finally it's all about heuristics, so always :p
Batpapa: *as
hbouillo: What's MCTS?
LLG: when you learn a spell, do you pay the tax first or get the taxed ingredients on that spell first?
LLG: I'm assuming paying first, right?
Xenoid: pay first
MoMaT: MCTS is another semi-random search algorithm, like GA.
nemo_001: LCA
MoMaT: but it has some memory, and is particularly good in min-max style games.
LLG: sounds interesting
dreadylein: mcts will converege to minmax given infinte time
hbouillo: Oh, I see
hbouillo: What does MCTS stand for?
Icebox: Monte Carlo Tree Search
LLG: Monte Carlo Tree Search, I assume
hbouillo: Ah, yes, heard about that one!
LLG: glanced over it yesterday while doing research, but didn't read into it much
MoMaT: in general, what you hear people calling "sim" here in chat, is really search + evaluation.
Icebox: ^
MoMaT: search generates the moves, and evaluation function helps you pick the best one.
hbouillo: Yes, that is why I was confused earlier when Icebox was explaining :)
MoMaT: often you would do both at the same time, incrementally adding next move and evaluating the result.
LLG: what are some easier-to-get-into search algorithms I could try? atm I'm just writing the base game logic (generating a new state after executing an action)
MoMaT: so it feels like you play the game forward into the future,
LLG: haven't gotten into the heuristics side of things
MoMaT: like you are simulating it.
MoMaT: the easiest is random search :)
MoMaT: you generate moves at random, and pick the best one based on some score.
MoMaT: it's obviously not the best, although people in the optimisation field argue till this day if you can really do better (No Free Lunch theorem) :)
LLG: I'm thinking about generating all the states up to a certain depth
LLG: then apply some sort of pruning somehow
MoMaT: if you want something smarter, I guess next is hill climbing, where you only generate improving moves.
LLG: idk how time efficient that would be though
MoMaT: if you generate all the states that's exhaustive search, also know as brute force.
LLG: also, since this is a simultaneous move game, I should generate my opponent's move at the same time, no?
hbouillo: That likely won't get you far in 50ms
hbouillo: (Talking about the bruteforce way)
LLG: like, the process of generating a new state involves executing my move, and my opponent's
MoMaT: no, you can ignore the opponent until you start loosing games because of that.
kreska: omg fun thing happen i just test my newest version of my bot and i found a guy that has identically thae same strategy lern the same spells cast exactly the same thing with exception of not using repeatability of the spell:D
MoMaT: in silver I doubt you need to worry about it as long as your won play is good.
MoMaT: in this game opponents play does not interfere with the state so much.
MoMaT: you both can take the same spell or deliver the same potion.
MoMaT: it's more a matter of targeting. you don't want to chase things you know your opponent will get first.
MoMaT: but I might be wrong, we see later in the contest if there is some nuance there.
kreska: or maybe he sohow mimicks the oponent strategy? but he didnt use repeats. i need to think about it:D
pde-bakk: yeah the Sims 4 is a great game
MoMaT: I predict all the best bots will play in a very similar way. almost mirroring each other like kreska was describing.
sadakatsu: I think there will be more variety than that. The evaluation functions will make themselves known.
Icebox: MoMaT it's more about when the first different action happens
Icebox: if it happens early the rest of the game will be completely different
MoMaT: yes, that's true. order of delivery still matters.
MoMaT: but I expect that by the end of contest this would be figured out. best bots will go for the same trade-offs. we'll see :)
NinjaDoggy: how much memory does codingame give you again?
Xenoid: 768MB
NinjaDoggy: so you can have up to 2 X 10^8 ints?
NinjaDoggy: 768 * 1024 * 1024 / 4 ?
Icebox: bonk
Icebox: no hardcoding
Icebox: no precomputing
Icebox: bad NinjaDoggy
NinjaDoggy: lol
NinjaDoggy: nah was just wondering if I can create a decently large number of nodes
NinjaDoggy: or if I had to memory optimize my node attributes
Icebox: don't you need just 1001 :^)
NinjaDoggy: ahh of course ;)
Xenoid: A decently large number of precomputed nodes, you mean?
NinjaDoggy: nah not precomputed
NinjaDoggy: just pre memory allocated
Icebox: that's literally what precomputing means :D
NinjaDoggy: I guess...
NinjaDoggy: but I usually think of precomputing as doing something more intelligent
NinjaDoggy: than just being dummies there :P
MoMaT: preallocating != precomputing
Icebox: you need to precompute everything that you're preallocating
NinjaDoggy: ^
LLG: what are some ideas to implement state evaluation?
I'm thinking about factoring in current score and some sort of distance from recipes
NinjaDoggy: yea i'm precomputing them to zero though lol
Icebox: :D
NinjaDoggy: @LLG honestly I would give some ideas if I had any
NinjaDoggy: but I literally just use score + inventory * constant
NinjaDoggy: tier-0 = 1, tier 1=2, tier2=3,tier3=4
LLG: I'm thinking
LLG: since different recipes have different payout
NinjaDoggy: and then let the search handle everything else :)
NinjaDoggy: yea there's a formula to that
LLG: maybe the recipe price can act as a coefficient
NinjaDoggy: recipe price = cost of parts
NinjaDoggy: +1 if there's 3 different elements
NinjaDoggy: and +2 if there's 4 different elemtns
LLG: there is? I wasn't aware of that
NinjaDoggy: it's not explicitly told
NinjaDoggy: but people figured it out
LLG: so there isn't really much merit to taking the recipe price into account, right?
LLG: since factoring in your inventory state does basically the same thing
MoMaT: it's the same pretty much in every game LLG. state after move should be close to target (point giving) state.
MoMaT: for example, so you can measure the distance between your inventory and the orders.
NinjaDoggy: well... recipe price matters too
NinjaDoggy: for a few reasons:
MoMaT: it could be just difference and items, but that's approximation. the best would be a number of moves to reach it.
NinjaDoggy: 1:recipes with variety do give a slight +1 or +2 bonux
NinjaDoggy: 2:there's a +3,+1 bonus for recipes at the start
NinjaDoggy: and then the main reason is to cash out and make space to generate more stuff
Xenoid: ouch
Xenoid: I won 26 of the first 28 this submission
Xenoid: and then lost 10 in a row
NinjaDoggy: :(
NinjaDoggy: resubmit time?
hbouillo: Xenoid Rude haha
MoMaT: then you need to consider the radeoff between the distance and the reward, and decide to make more moves to get higher price.
jrke: Xenoid happens a lot
NinjaDoggy: idk if 10 in a row happens a lot lol...
MoMaT: ...or take the first "quick" order, e.g. because you're already ahead.
phord: The bonus is added in to the recipe price, too, so you can ignore the bonus unless you're counting the chance of getting it first.
LLG: > the bonus is added in to the recipe price
LLG: does it mean if a recipe is 17 + 3
LLG: recipe.price is 20?
LLG: and recipe.tomeIndex is 3
Zenoscave: yes
LLG: I see
NinjaDoggy: ok if i'm ranked 56 rn is there a point to submitting?
NinjaDoggy: like do I just wait for gold tomorrow then submit?
Icebox: not really
Icebox: wait till gold
Zenoscave: gold is tomorrow!?
NinjaDoggy: yea
Icebox: yea
hbouillo: Yes
Zenoscave: I'm losing track
jrke: gold is today i think
NinjaDoggy: yea depends on time zone i guess
NinjaDoggy: it's in 12 hours?
Xenoid: Gold is in 13.5 hrs, yeah
Icebox: yeah
jrke: oh lol
jrke: i think top 280-290 will be promoted to gold automatically
kreska: man time flies
phord: Is there a disadvantage to submitting again? Can you lose position you would otherwise keep?
Whiskee: can you be demoted after that? asking for a friend, of course
NinjaDoggy: @phord yes
phord: :-O
NinjaDoggy: your bot usually will sit higher
NinjaDoggy: than initial submit
NinjaDoggy: due to the types of opponents you play
ZarthaxX: Whiskee nope
NinjaDoggy: since bots are rock, paper, scissors(in most games) to some degree
NinjaDoggy: you can lose against bots with lower rating
Icebox: ZarthaxX with how you code we might add demotion just for you
Icebox: :^)
NinjaDoggy: lol
NinjaDoggy: also hai ZarthaxX :D
ZarthaxX: Icebox sure bro, same goes for you and your c++ performance
ZarthaxX: hai NinjaDogo
NinjaDoggy: on the topic of C++ performance...
NinjaDoggy: icebox C++ rewrite when?
ZarthaxX: he is on it
Icebox: it's actually long done
ZarthaxX: failing hard tho
Icebox: :D
NinjaDoggy: :joy:
ZarthaxX: might have to ask CG stuff to give him extra initial time
ZarthaxX: or maybe a bit more ms each turn, tocompensate
NinjaDoggy: :rofl:
Icebox: those are some harsh statements
Icebox: coming from someone so deep down in silver
Icebox: :^)
ZarthaxX: i dont have time to play this thing lmao
ZarthaxX: you are the one that doesnt sleep
Icebox: I'm sure you don't :^)
Icebox: that's something I would say as well if I couldn't get out of silver :wink:
ZarthaxX: i cant get out of silver, as there is no other league
ZarthaxX: you should go to sleep ice, already allucinating
jrke: ZarthaxX gold will open in 13 hours from now
Icebox: :D
Icebox: the more you know ZarthaxX
NinjaDoggy: are there any top bots remaining that still hardcode X turns of learn and then never learn again?
hbouillo: I believe emil does it
hbouillo: 6 turns if I remember well
ZarthaxX: my point is, there no other league rn
ZarthaxX: i can't get out of silver coz of that
NinjaDoggy: Psyho still does 8 huh
ZarthaxX: lol wat
NinjaDoggy: learn 8 turns at the beginning, and then cast/brew only
kreska: My new bot is 338 is it enough for gold? At this point i just want to be gold :D
NinjaDoggy: only tomorrow will tell
NinjaDoggy: in general, it's much easier to promote when a new league just openms
kreska: can you get depromoted back?
NinjaDoggy: no
kreska: thats good to hear :D
jrke: kreska i think gold will open nearby 290 somewhere so you can make gold
DreadY2K: My bot just learns a new spell whenever the opponent knows more spells than I do
It does poorly, but that's for other reasons
DreadY2K: It balances learning new things pretty well
kreska: jrke i hope so im so addicted to this game :D
Xenoid: Wow, let's find the median by doing A[A.size()] / 2. That will work
NinjaDoggy: :(
NinjaDoggy: happens
Borrow: Which crates are available to a Rust submission?
