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thethiny: lol

BenjaminUrquhart: I can't without knowing what you need help with

thethiny: lol x2

BenjaminUrquhart: so technically, no I can't atm

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: i ned help

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: im buring

BenjaminUrquhart: clearly

thethiny: what do you need help with?

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: im burning

thethiny: oh

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: i ned notch apple

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: help

thethiny: damn

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: help2

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: help3

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: help4

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: help 5

ZarthaxX: he is just a troll thethiny

ZarthaxX: leave him


eulerscheZahl: others websites got creative with troll handling. like only users who are themselves trolls can see a troll

eulerscheZahl: and the troll doesn't even know that he was flagged

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: lol

BenjaminUrquhart: I can't tell if this is reverse psychology or not

Default avatar.png TheAtomicStopwatch_c7ec: he's a troll

thethiny: can we take a moment to appreciate the graphics of the game

BenjaminUrquhart: moments has passed, carry on

BenjaminUrquhart: moment*

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: oh no a website that i barely visit is going to separate me with other "trolls"

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: im so scared

thethiny: Guys what good debug things I can show on top of the pac?

thethiny: What are some useful messages?

BenjaminUrquhart: whatever you want

thethiny: I know but I mean what should I put

thethiny: currently it's visible pellet count

Default avatar.png TheAtomicStopwatch_c7ec: jack stop spamming the chat with pleas of help

thethiny: maybe heading direction? Total pellets towards direction?

BenjaminUrquhart: I put destination and how much time elapsed between start and that pac's processing

Default avatar.png my_genjutsu: whos jack

thethiny: okay, thanks


thethiny: check this behavior at 41-50

thethiny: a paper that can't eat a rock

BenjaminUrquhart: struct already found that

thethiny: oh okay

thethiny: I saw this in the rules but never saw it in action

RubenFilipe: u won tho

BenjaminUrquhart: btw we're at 1997 bronze players

BenjaminUrquhart: RubenFilipe is him versus himself

BenjaminUrquhart: he better win

RubenFilipe: I noticed xD

RubenFilipe: A tie would be fairer tho

Ken_Fool: omg the sun is out

Ken_Fool: gn8

BenjaminUrquhart: :wave:

Ken_Fool: gl

LelouchVC2: gn

RubenFilipe: gn

Default avatar.png BenWo: 'nite

Neabfi: is it a bug the fact that the paper can’t eat the rock ?

dbdr: it can. did it collide with something else maybe?

aCat: welcome again chat ;-)

dbdr: for those who don't know: if the chat is dead, try discourse

eulerscheZahl: *discord

eulerscheZahl: 2 typos in 1 word

dbdr: :trophy:

dbdr: what's the second typo?

dbdr: I guess it's time to parse that type_id parameter :)

LelouchVC2: Fucks sakes, my code keeps giving order to dead pacs

LelouchVC2: It shouldn't be, I only use the pacIds it gives me :((

dbdr: one easy mistake is to confuse the pcaid with the rank of the pac in your list of pacs

LelouchVC2: What's that?

LelouchVC2: All I have is an if statement, if "mine" is true, then it saves the Id given

LelouchVC2: And those Ids are updated every turn, so idk why it's spitting out dead pac numbers :/

LelouchVC2: Other than that bug my pacs are ripping faces off opponents

dbdr: my mistake was to save those live pacs in a vector, then assume the id of the pac is the same as the rank inside the vector

LelouchVC2: What rank?? Where do you get that?

JohnCM: maybe you should store the pacid in a struct datatype together with the rest of the pac parameters? that way won't get mixed up?

LelouchVC2: That's where it is

JohnCM: haha i'm just saying, haven't seen your code so I don't know what the problem might be

LelouchVC2: Sitting comfy in a vector of a class

JohnCM: then print the pacid when it is assigned, and when it is printed in the statement

JohnCM: maybe there is an overwrite somewhere due to misreferencing

JohnCM: or when you copy the id over, you may not have copied the data, but rather copied the pointer instead

LelouchVC2: The variable is only accessed 3 times, once to assign, twice to output.

LelouchVC2: There's no pointerrs in my code :((

JohnCM: hmm.. does it give orders to only X number of pacs, where X is the number of surviving pacs

LelouchVC2: The Ids are initalized to -1, so the if statement is definitely going off, and the Ids are being assigned

JohnCM: means.. is the length of the orders correct

JohnCM: like "MOVE 0 12 1|MOVE 1 23 2" for surviving pacs 0 and 1

LelouchVC2: The length of the vector is 5 for the max number of pacs. But the loop variable is one that starts as 0 and is incremented everytime the if statment goes off

LelouchVC2: If statement goes off if bool mine is true

JohnCM: then you may not have saved the right pacid

JohnCM: you may have saved your loop index instead

LelouchVC2: cin >> pacId

LelouchVC2: pac[myPacs-1].id = pacId

LelouchVC2: Haven't been saving the index :/

JohnCM: anyhow just make sure your input pacId is the same as your output pacId. you can do a sanity check by just input and output the pacId without the rest of your code

LelouchVC2: I've wanted to, the shitty thing about this bug is I need to wait for a pac to die before I can see where the issue is

JohnCM: pac[myPacs-1].id = pacId

JohnCM: if you save this like that... how do you reference it?

JohnCM: i assume myPacs is your loop index

LelouchVC2: In the loop governed by "visiblePacCount" i have an if statement checking for "mine" to be true

LelouchVC2: Everytime it's true, myPacs++

LelouchVC2: So it keeps track of how many pacs are accounted for

JohnCM: i see.. then when you reference it you loop from 0 to myPacs -1 right?

LelouchVC2: Exactly

LelouchVC2: And it outputs all the pacs even if they're dead

LelouchVC2: It deffinitely resets to 0 every loop

LelouchVC2: every game loop*

JohnCM: haha your code sounds right

JohnCM: but i have a simple solution to your problem

JohnCM: add a list "alivepacs"

JohnCM: append the pacId of the alivepacs into that list

JohnCM: when it comes to output time

JohnCM: skip whatever pacId not in that list

JohnCM: you'll use one more array, but at least it makes sure you don't output anything you shouldn't

LelouchVC2: I was about to do that, but I'd end up using the same conditions that are somehow failing now

JohnCM: not true..

JohnCM: you can print out the list "alivepacs" during debugging and see where your code goes wrong

JohnCM: both at the input section and output section

JohnCM: it's better than just using myPacs as the index, harder to debug

JohnCM: anyway, good luck!

LelouchVC2: Thanks <3

JohnCM: btw, anyone knows how can you fight against an earlier version of your own AI? like can you trace back the submissions you made earlier and fight each of them

LelouchVC2: One AI needs to be submitted, the other on your IDE

LelouchVC2: that's the only way to put them against each other

JohnCM: oh... ok that's what i thought too

JohnCM: means only the latest version of your submitted ai vs your current one

JohnCM: fair enough

Gorbit99: generally speaking that's not really a good idea anyway

jacek: happy Caturday

Doju: Heya everybody

Doju: woow, Nerchio still holds second place?

eulerscheZahl: the ranking really doesn't matter yet

LelouchVC2: Euler, send me your code

LelouchVC2: I'll use it

eulerscheZahl: sorry, against the rules

eulerscheZahl: and it's incomplete anyways

LelouchVC2: Aww

LelouchVC2: I suck ur pp?

Doju: Where can you even read the rules?

Doju: I can't find them


LelouchVC2: This guy has the rules handy

Doju: aha, gotcha

jacek: he IS the rules

eulerscheZahl: Article 8: Exclusion

LelouchVC2: Article 13: Gay

eulerscheZahl: article 15 gives a link to the rules. so i need the rules to find the rules? :D

LelouchVC2: You must be born within the universe to create the universe

Doju: Well, i wrote like 7 lines of really vague pseudocode to someone

Doju: i guess i'm a criminal

jacek: :police:

eulerscheZahl: :cop:

Doju: what even is the point of this "Obfuscating your code as well as creating obstacles to its reading and understanding."?

eulerscheZahl: you don't want CG to see what you do

Doju: Why?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: My code is pretty obfuscated and I'm not even trying

LelouchVC2: ^


dbdr: did I get this right? :)

eulerscheZahl: some players compiled the program offline and submitted a binary, encoded in a base85 string

Doju: Oh

LelouchVC2: Some players are too intense for me

eulerscheZahl: that way they get higher performance as they can set the compiler options

Doju: I see.

eulerscheZahl: but it prevents cheat detection

eulerscheZahl: (several players using the same code)

whadk: how do you stop a command going to a pac when it dies because I used only the pacs in the inputs but sometimes the pac dies after the command is given

dbdr: I guess it would also be useful if someone found a security flaw and abused it

Default avatar.png ltmoran: if (myScore < enemyScore):

dbdr: say a way to make the opponent bot crash

Default avatar.png ltmoran: myScore = 99999

Doju: I think my visibility function thing is gonna be waayy too slow...

Doju: checking a bunch of squares for every pac on every move

LelouchVC2: OMG



whadk: because it dies after youre given the input

jacek: it isnt?

whadk: sometimes that happens

LelouchVC2: kill me daddy

whadk: same

eulerscheZahl: dead pacmen are not given, you must have a bug in your code so you don't reset

eulerscheZahl: or maybe printing 2 lines in 1 turn sometimes

dbdr: it's easier to complain about the referee than to fix your code ;)

dbdr: but less useful

whadk: theres probably a way to fix it though

whadk: even in the other case

JohnCM: just make sure you output only one line per turn

whadk: ok ill try that

JohnCM: also a line ends with a newline ('\n'), not a straight bracket ('|')

LelouchVC2: Dead pacmen are not given?

LelouchVC2: Tell that to Satan

whadk: ahh thats it

whadk: thanks

JohnCM: glad to help

LelouchVC2: Can't be denied

LelouchVC2: It's giving my the pacId of a deadpac

LelouchVC2: I outputted the Id given right after the pac died

JohnCM: maybe you have the same issue as whadk

JohnCM: make sure you only output one line at a time per game turn

LelouchVC2: It's only 1 line, otherwise it would have given an error on the first turn

JohnCM: haha i made the ai bot timeout before by outputting multiple lines

JohnCM: the referee did not catch it

LelouchVC2: Lol, that's intense

JohnCM: i was wondering why i got 1st with only 1 game turn

LelouchVC2: I thought it was strange my code wasn't working. I copied and pasteed code that was working earlier thinking I had broken something

LelouchVC2: but still didn't work

dbdr: there is nothing to catch. if you output several lines, it means you give actions for the next turns in advance

Doju: There are no other kinds of cells than wall, empty, pellet and super pellet, right?

Doju: and pac

LelouchVC2: There's the mitochondria

LelouchVC2: the powerhouse of the cell

Doju: Oh right i'll add that thanks

LelouchVC2: <3

LelouchVC2: I'd be at least top 300 if this fucking thing was working

Doju: What are you working on?

LelouchVC2: my code is consistently ahead of the opponents I put it up against

LelouchVC2: keeps giving orders to dead pacs

LelouchVC2: I check the pac Id given RIGHT after a pac dies, it literally gives me the id of a dead pac to use

Doju: that's odd

LelouchVC2: I went through my code and up and down, and now this output confirms it :((

Doju: At least it's still better than mine

LelouchVC2: LoL

Doju: my pacs are currently chasing pellets that don't exist

Doju: they are completely blind

LelouchVC2: They're dreamers

Doju: Indeed

Doju: Also I have to figure out a fast way to get dead ends

Doju: I guess I could adapt my BFS to that

Default avatar.png Lentaq: borrow Lelouch's code, apparently he's good at finding dead things >:)

Doju: hahah xDD

LelouchVC2: Damn Lentaq do me dirty like that

LelouchVC2: Nothing i can do. I looked my code up and down, there was nothing wrong in the logic or semantics

JohnCM: all the best guys! i'm trying to get my rock scissors paper mechanic right. haha right now my rock is still running away from an opponent scissors

LelouchVC2: I output the pac Ids I get after the turn, and they literally have the dead pac in them

shashwat986: LelouchVC2 are you checking the `mine` flag?

Doju: JohnCM I have no RPS mechanics at all :|

LelouchVC2: Its the sexiest flag ever shashwat986

JohnCM: haha you don't need them at first

LelouchVC2: Yes i check it

JohnCM: but for the top 200 increasingly ppl use them

shashwat986: XD

LelouchVC2: That's the only time I take in pacIds

Doju: I think once i get this vision system working i'll climb to somewhere around 400

JohnCM: i once lost a game in 5 turns cause the opponent transformed and killed both my pacs

Doju: Then i need the dead end thing

Doju: and speed

shashwat986: I tried to avoid collisions, and instead of going up the rankings, I just lost 30 ranks

shashwat986: dunno what's wrong XD

LelouchVC2: ikr, that's me every time i fix a bug

LelouchVC2: The bug was keeping me strong all along

shashwat986: ha

JohnCM: it's a "feature" then

LelouchVC2: If this broken website isn't working properly tomorrow I'm done with the contest

LelouchVC2: Wasted so much time debugging when it's literally just giving me wrong info ;(

LelouchVC2: What languages is everyone using?

JohnCM: at least you now know debugging:) that's a plus

LelouchVC2: I've always known debugging? :oo

JohnCM: i'm quite grateful to codingame actually. i started this site about a week ago, and i massively improved my coding skills already

JohnCM: i'm using python.. but i never implemented any bfs, dfs, dijkstra, a*, string parsing by my own. i mainly copied from other sites. doing the code on my own helped

LelouchVC2: Only thing this site has made me learn is how to right shit code to win clash of code and make me learn A LOT of binary to hex to decimal conversions because why the fuck no

Default avatar.png BenWo: I'm using python as well

Default avatar.png BenWo: also, using cg to learn python :unamused:

LelouchVC2: Well, I'm outta here

LelouchVC2: I love you all

LelouchVC2: <3

LelouchVC2: Except Carlos

JohnCM: lol:)

shashwat986: That's why I like challenges more. It's different and fun

shashwat986: chai LelouchVC2

Default avatar.png BenWo: :scream:

shashwat986: *ciao

LelouchVC2: <3 shashwat986 I'll be seeing you in my dreams


When your code switches in exactly the same way every time

shashwat986: (I mean, it's me vs me, but still XD)

cegprakash: hey anyone knows which file the execution starts in referee?

cegprakash: I saw there's nothing there

cegprakash: alright

cegprakash: found it

cegprakash: fix it shashwat986

cegprakash: or may be u are playing it safe

cegprakash: it's hard to predict enemy type.. say if u are paper and enemy is rock and u think he's going to change to scissors (as per minimax) so you change to rock but instead he remains a rock and wrecks you

cegprakash: so I think what u are doing may be safe..

cegprakash: and can work

akshat: What timezone does CG follow for league opening?

eulerscheZahl: 6pm CEST

akshat: Thanks!

eulerscheZahl: central european summer time

WaRiOrOfCoDe: does any one know in contest if pac is killed is pac_id given as input?

WaRiOrOfCoDe: I am trying to find if my pac is alive

cegprakash: you will only get alive pacs in input

cegprakash: if your pac is dead you won't get it as input

WaRiOrOfCoDe: okay thanks

whadk: i just realised if you use the newline character to only output one line it makes no pacs get any command in the next round

eulerscheZahl: but hard to tell if yo killed an opponent pacman

whadk: but how else are you supposed to avoid dying after a command is given and losing the game as a result

whadk: because bad command pac doesnt exist

kovi: euler - true...would be nice to get some score for it

eulerscheZahl: i'll add a killing feature anyways

cegprakash: whadk u need to use pipe symbol

whadk: at the end of the line?

cegprakash: on same line

whadk: ok ill try that too then

cegprakash: something like this

cegprakash: MOVE 0 2 5 |MOVE 1 26 3 |MOVE 2 24 7

cegprakash: but a new line at the end

cegprakash: u shouldn't have a trialing pipe as well

whadk: so a \n at the end of the line

whadk: thats what I was trying before causing no command recieved

whadk: I think im doing something wrong

cegprakash: u have to print exactly 1 line

whadk: yeah I do MOVE 0 2 5 |MOVE 1 26 3 |MOVE 2 24 7 \n

WaRiOrOfCoDe: yo i am still getting my killed pac_id as input.

whadk: without the \n the pac dies after a command is given

cegprakash: yes

whadk: so I get bad command

cegprakash: u need a \n at the end of line

whadk: and with the \n it gives no command to the next round

cegprakash: don't use \n after every pac

cegprakash: what league are u in whadk

whadk: yeah i mean \n after the line

whadk: bronze

cegprakash: check ur inputs

cegprakash: may be u are missing to read something

cegprakash: or try default code

cegprakash: it should work just fine

whadk: I'm getting a similar error to WaRiOrOfCoDe

cegprakash: you probably have messed up something

whadk: probably

WaRiOrOfCoDe: i' ll try that

WaRiOrOfCoDe: i mean it runs fine for few turns then i get pac_id as an input

whadk: yeah same

cegprakash: take a backup of ur code and try ur default code

whadk: is the default code supposed to update when you pass a league

whadk: mine is the same given in the wood leagues

cegprakash: no. same code works

whadk: oh ok

cegprakash: just that other pacs will not move

cegprakash: but it won't crash

cegprakash: take it to debug

mark7: How to create unordered map of following. unordered_map<pair<point, point>> point is a custom class

cegprakash: whadk u can always use error stream to debug

whadk: I do

whadk: sys.stderr.write

cegprakash: mark7 u need to overload < operator

whadk: (python 3)

cegprakash: for Point class


mark7: Thanks

mark7: geeksforgeeks told ==

cegprakash: oh may be..

whadk: oh now i see

cegprakash: I used < for map

cegprakash: unordered_map I'm not sure

mark7: Maybe because point

mark7: pair*

cegprakash: bool operator == (Point &other) { return x == other.x && y == other.y; }

AntiSquid: 2k people in bronze wow

AntiSquid: :D

aCat: yeah, and silver in monday....

aCat: leagues should be open sooner

mark7: Now it atleast works

mark7: but gives timeout

mark7: We need Hash Class


AntiSquid: how will that help acat? you can open legend tomorrow, everything still gets flooded

Enknable: if the boss is good

Enknable: it will filter..

AntiSquid: if it's good it may filter you too

AntiSquid: back to square one

Enknable: what u mean?

AntiSquid: people think they get a league of their own with just a few players in it when a new league opens

Enknable: maybe i misunderstood. I thought you meant that if you open a league everyone will just get in

eulerscheZahl: frame 60 my first collaborative kill :)

akshat: wow! <3

Are you running GA or pure heuristics?

Enknable: that little red guy looks so scared :cry:

eulerscheZahl: monte carlo for general movement, full search for kills

PiterYeh: eulerscheZahl cool, but what makes it collaborative?

eulerscheZahl: 1 pac chasing the opponent, the other blocking the path

eulerscheZahl: that would not work if i would move each of my pac independently

PiterYeh: oh right, so it's frame 70, not 60

PiterYeh: awesome, gg!!

eulerscheZahl: it starts at 60, seeing the kill long before

Enknable: "TRAP TRAP TRAP"

cegprakash: it's easy to counter that akshat

cegprakash: if he become a paper

cegprakash: then eulerscheZahl wasted lot of turns

cegprakash: may be trapping with all 3 can work

cegprakash: but isn't enough

cegprakash: but chasing is bad

PiterYeh: if he knows that the enemy cannot switch shape because of the ability cooldown, then it's a cerain kill with no opportunity for counterplay

cegprakash: that's what I think

cegprakash: oh yes the cooldown

JohnCM: wow eulersche I just lost to your AI

JohnCM: but i'm surprised mcts can actually run in time

JohnCM: by my experience with ultimate tic tac toe, it can run at most 5 ply before timeout

eulerscheZahl: i will do something about the chasing later, one thing after another

eulerscheZahl: but true cegprakash, chasing is bad with a non-retard opponent

eulerscheZahl: or at least risky

eulerscheZahl: and JohnCM it's monte carlo, not MCTS

Default avatar.png ForceMajeure: lol

dbdr: the lb is full of retard opponents right now I think

dbdr: as in ignoring death

eulerscheZahl: of course, still early in the contest

dbdr: I'm just getting ready for it :)

eulerscheZahl: and my new feature partially broke the bot is i submitted a semi-finished thing :D

eulerscheZahl: afk now

mark7: Is there a modified version of BFS to calculate path of all pairs in map?

wishesto: could someone explain me more about how to use ability in pac and also how to count cooldown

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Search for all pairs shortest path

mark7: I get Timed out FASTER

Default avatar.png ltmoran: cooldown per pac is counted for you

JohnCM: ah i see.. monte carlo for the next move

JohnCM: awesome.. implementing rock scissors paper technique got me to 130th place

aCat: euler what MC depth you are using currently?

wishesto: i use if ability_cooldown == 0 then use skill but it not really work

JohnCM: now time to use bfs... lol i've been using manhattan dist for the longest time

Doju: How does Monte Carlo relate to this? I'm not really familiar with how it works

Doju: or what it even really is

wishesto: how to use skill when skill is ready

Doju: atm i just understand that you throw a bunch of random numbers into something and get a result from it

Csipcsirip: you move to random directions and calculate the collected pellets. you do this until timeout and then step the startmove of the best sequence

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Monte Carlo basically predicts with a probability where the pac should move

wishesto: i use python thanks

Doju: Oohh

Doju: that's smart

Default avatar.png ltmoran: so like

Default avatar.png ltmoran: there's an 80% it should move here

Default avatar.png ltmoran: and 20% here

Default avatar.png ltmoran: The hard part is working out the percentages lol

Doju: so it's basically like BFS but intead of getting the shortest path it gets the most pellets?

aCat: sadly nope like that

aCat: :P

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Not really

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It will tell you which cell you should move to

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And in the calculation for which is the best cell

JohnCM: i think euler's monte carlo is purely meant to predict where his opponent would head into

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You can take into account num of adj pellets

Csipcsirip: in pure MC there are no probabilities

JohnCM: not really to collect pellets

Doju: Ah I see

Default avatar.png ltmoran: "In computing, a Monte Carlo algorithm is a randomized algorithm whose output may be incorrect with a certain (typically small) probability"

JohnCM: you can't really monte carlo hidden information states unless you visit them

Doju: Aha...

Doju: okay, thanks for educating me

Csipcsirip: you shouldnt do fully random moves tho. move to a random pellet for example

JohnCM: and your simulation won't work cause you don't have the true figures (unless you use the overall view of the map, which you don't)

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Yeah but if you don't reset the board state every turn you get a lot of information wuick

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Every time a pac reaches an intersection, you get all the data for that row+col

JohnCM: ya this is an information game, once you get that perspective you can get better algo

JohnCM: think of minesweeper

JohnCM: like my information algo without bfs can reach.. wow 100th place now

JohnCM: XD

Default avatar.png ltmoran: lol

Doju: :o

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Nice

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I think I overengineered mine...

Doju: I have a system that might actually work

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And it still is not getting results

Doju: pretty efficiently at that

wishesto: how to use skill when skill is ready i use python thanks

Doju: wishesto get the cooldown and if it's 0 give the command

Default avatar.png ltmoran: if ability_cooldown==0: print("SPEED {pacID}")

JohnCM: my pacs are still colliding with each other and wasting a lot of moves

JohnCM: lol gotta fix that

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah same

Doju: I'm basically going all in on python ideologies with my bot

Default avatar.png ltmoran: THat's why I'm losing the games I'm losing

Doju: even with the pellets im asking for forgiveness instead of permission

Doju: guessing they're there unless they're not :D

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: That's the strat

Doju: I think that will get me to like 400th place once it's done

Doju: but i'm gonna try to apply some logic to also guess that some pellets are missing

Doju: based on dead ends

Doju: and a few other things

Doju: Can you split a list like you would a string in python?

Doju: Like in a similar fashion. the same syntax doesn't work

Default avatar.png jooha6082: open

Default avatar.png jooha6082: gg

Default avatar.png jooha6082: mid open

Doju: ff15

JohnCM: lol... you have to use slicing like array[i:j]

Doju: JohnCM ugh thats ugly but i guess there's no other way to do it then

Doju: thanks

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Alternatively you could join the list using "" as the delimiter and then split it based on the char you want

Doju: Weelll i have instances of a class in the list so maybe that's a bit complicated Itmoran

Doju: oh its ltmoran and not Itmoran

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You can use __repr__

Doju: yeah I could technically

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah it's an L

Doju: then use str.split

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah exactly

Doju: I think indexing will be cleaner and faster though

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Yeah probably

mark7: It times out in first turm?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's not like speed is a huge huge issue in thist contest

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Probably because you have a quad nested loop lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You have a max of 1 second for the first turn

Default avatar.png ltmoran: So I imagine that loop isn't running quickly enough

Doju: I'm using python, never underestimate python's ability to time out :D

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah I am too

mark7: Thats why I searching for smart way to calculate distances

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I haven't had any issues with it yet though

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Remarkably

Doju: Do you have bfs?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

mark7: YES

Doju: and how are you using it?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: not well :)


Default avatar.png ltmoran: You should just use heuristics

Doju: I had bfs at first like so that i check every single pellet and compare the distances

Doju: but that's insane and you should just use a single bfs flood fill until you hit a certain criteria

Doju: aka the cell is a pellet

mark7: Okay :thumbsup:

Doju: But that won't help you if you calculate every pair

Doju: Don't really know how to help with that

Default avatar.png ltmoran: every pair is what?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: n^3?

Doju: hmm

Doju: isn't it n^2

mark7: Maybe just goto Super pellet

mark7: :joy:

Doju: mark7 if you really want to get every pair you could maybe optimize it with symmetry

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Pretty sure it isn't n^2

Doju: how come?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Floyd -warshall at least

Doju: bfs is O(n)

Doju: right?

Doju: every cell is checked once

eulerscheZahl: right

eulerscheZahl: O(nodes+edges) in general

eulerscheZahl: but here the edges only differs from nodes by a constant

Nerchio: wow

Nerchio: 10 hours later i am still top 5

Default avatar.png ltmoran: BFS is O(n)

Doju: Yeah i was surprised by that as well Nerchio

Default avatar.png ltmoran: But there are n^2 pairs

eulerscheZahl: resubmit and you might be lower

Doju: a few hours ago you were still second

Doju: ltmoran what? you check every cell for every cell

Doju: and also you dont even need to check every cell

Doju: you can just take the path backwards if it's already calculated

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: But no

eulerscheZahl: floyd warshall = O(n^3) BFS for each cell = O(n^2)

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's O(n^3)

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Because

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Number of Nodes choose 2

Default avatar.png ltmoran: is >= n^2

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Therefore there are n^2 pairs


Nerchio: hahaha omg

eulerscheZahl: that's for a full graph with lots of edges it

Default avatar.png ltmoran: which can each be computed in O(n) time

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's a grid

eulerscheZahl: itm [ŧab?]

dbdr: there is a bounded number of edges

Nerchio: i opened the first replay today and look at this


eulerscheZahl: oh, it's an L

dbdr: 4 is O(1)

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's not the number of edges though

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's the number of nodes

Default avatar.png ltmoran: That's the problem

Nerchio: last 70 turns lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Because the n^2 comes from all pairs for each node

eulerscheZahl: he successfully blocks you Nerchio

eulerscheZahl: by converting to scissors it would be a draw

Nerchio: i know but its funny

Nerchio: close match

Doju: Oh wow

Doju: do some people have like hiding strats? :o

Doju: pellet is unreachable and you are winning -> hide

eulerscheZahl: i'm pretty sure that was random

Nerchio: yeah

Nerchio: i mean

Nerchio: it was for like 80 turns

Nerchio: thats not a strat :D

Doju: :D

Illedan: nice kovi

kovi: thx illedan

kovi: shameless resubmit, to pull down romka

akshat: Can we do recursion in c++ lambdas?

Nerchio: i wonder if weekend will be more busy in terms of people submitting than friday

Nerchio: probably yes

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah pretty sure you can akshat

Clagus: are there going to be anything more than a bronze league? :P

Nerchio: silver gold legend

Default avatar.png ltmoran: not for me ;)

Clagus: yeah I know in theory, but why you guys are not promoted?

cegprakash: my sister found a 1 line code to reach from wood2 to wood1. Always go to the last visible pellet :D

Nerchio: because next leagues open in the next few days :p

Nerchio: silver on monday idk about the rest

Clagus: ok :D

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Best program has got to be keep track of previously visited locations and move randomly, just not to the ones you've already been to

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Boo

Default avatar.png ltmoran: boom

Default avatar.png ltmoran: #1 right there

Illedan: Not 1st. Maybe top 50.

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I'm joking lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Probably not top 50 either lol

Doju: Could THAT be top 50?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: probably not top 500

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Nah lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Maybe with some modifications it could do pretty well

Clagus: maybe top 1000, I think I'm doing something smarter and I'm around top 600 :P

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: I reached top 600 with that sort of algorithm

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: With some modifications though

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I reckon it could do pretty well

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Now to just add enemy avoidance

Doju: Ah im so confused

Doju: abot negative list indexes in python

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: It just counts from the end of the array right?

Doju: like

Doju: if you have this [::-1]

Doju: then it just goes backwards, ok

Doju: if you have this

Doju: [1:3:1]

Doju: sure, makes sense

Doju: just like you'd expect

Doju: but if you have [1:3:-1] it returns nothing

Default avatar.png ltmoran: [::-1] reverses

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: When you specify three

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: That is really weird. I don't know python good enough for that

Default avatar.png ltmoran: The last one is the step size

Default avatar.png ltmoran: So what [1:3:-1] means is

Default avatar.png ltmoran: start at one

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And go backwards

Default avatar.png ltmoran: eg

Default avatar.png ltmoran: less than one

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And since the start is less than the end

Default avatar.png ltmoran: it's going to return nothing

Doju: ooooooooohhhhh

Doju: i thought it was like

Doju: grab list from 1 to 3

Doju: then flip that backwards

Doju: now it makes sense, thanks ltmorgan

Default avatar.png ltmoran: if you wanted to do that

Doju: moran* xd

Default avatar.png ltmoran: it would be [1:3][::-1]

Default avatar.png ltmoran: np

Doju: ummh, what if i want to go backwards and also have the 0th element included?

Doju: so if i do [3:0:-1] it doesn't give the 0th element

Default avatar.png ltmoran: use -1 instead

Doju: and [3:-1:-1] doesn't work since -1 is the last element

Doju: [3:-1:-1]

Doju: lol

Doju: that's -1

Default avatar.png ltmoran: [3:-1:-1]?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: haha

Default avatar.png ltmoran: lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: why do you need to grab it in reverse though

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Why not grab it normally

Doju: and then reverse it?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

Doju: well yeah i guess that works as well

Doju: thanks again

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Then you don't have to mess with step size

Default avatar.png BenWo: wouldn't [3:1:-1] work?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: np

Doju: BenWo no then it doesnt give the first two elemtns

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I don't think so Ben

Doju: Oh right i can just omit the second index

Default avatar.png BenWo: are you wanting to have elements from 0-3 ?

Doju: [3::-1], that works

Default avatar.png BenWo: yeah that was my next thought

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I still don't get

Default avatar.png ltmoran: What's wrong with

Default avatar.png ltmoran: [:3][::-1]

Doju: nothing really

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Surely that's more readable?

Doju: actually it's not in the context of this code

Doju: i have a row and a column of a grid

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yes?

Doju: i need lists starting from the pac to all the edges of the map

Mentalist: 2100 people in bronze wow

Doju: and i think it's just a bit cleaner this way

Posejdon: 3000

AntiSquid: shows 2895 total for me

Default avatar.png ltmoran: whows 2088 for me

cegprakash: "the pac will be able to move by 2 steps during the next 5 turns"

does this mean if I print SPEED this turn I cannot move two turns this turn?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You print speed

Default avatar.png ltmoran: no move

cegprakash: so I append MOVE command with same pac ID twice?

Mentalist: yeah shots 2088 for me. CG is broken

Beerus: any constraints for width and height/

Default avatar.png ltmoran: nah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: THe speed thing is annoying actaully

Default avatar.png ltmoran: so

Default avatar.png ltmoran: There's basically a half turn

CodingCaptain: cegprakash no u command MOVE and it moves 2 cells

Default avatar.png ltmoran: But it will move your speedy pac one more square on it's originally course

cegprakash: oh I need to print the target with distance 2

CodingCaptain: cegprakash yes

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yaeh

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's a bit annoying

Default avatar.png ltmoran: But yeah

TrentT: Can someone confirm if there is any way to tell the opponents pac types? (Rock, paper, scissors)

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yes

dbdr: it's in the input TrentT

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's given to you

TrentT: Okay thanks, I see that now

cegprakash: does anyone know what's the singular form for Scissors?

TrentT: AutomatonNN what is singular for scissors?

AutomatonNN: what do you mean by that?

TrentT: Automaton3000 can you help?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It's plural

Default avatar.png ltmoran: types are ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS

Default avatar.png ltmoran: all caps

cegprakash: but I want to use singular

cegprakash: for my type

cegprakash: because Rock and Paper are singular

cegprakash: I want to keep it uniform

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah but that's silly

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Because

Default avatar.png ltmoran: THe type that's given in the input is plural

Default avatar.png ltmoran: so why change it?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Singular of SCISSORS is SCISSOR btw

cegprakash: I read somewhere scissors has no singular form

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Why does it matter though?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You want it singular

Default avatar.png ltmoran: just take off the S

Default avatar.png ltmoran: It doesn't actualyl have to exist

cegprakash: but when I want to borrow a scissor should I ask "Do you have a scissors?"

Default avatar.png ltmoran: you should say

Default avatar.png ltmoran: would you care to pass me your double-bladed cutting implement for a short period of time

Doju: my vision thing is finally done

Doju: after all it was only like 20 lines but still it was a pain

cegprakash: okay I'll name it DOUBLE_BLADED_CUTTER

cegprakash: this resolves the confusion

MSmits: wow, your bots must be awesome that you got to the point of making sure your code is spelled correctly :P

cegprakash: solid foundation is important

MSmits: allright

dbdr: I just got to the point of having the hard talk with my bot

dbdr: he knows about death now :(

MSmits: ahh I see

shashwat986: :( that's a tough stage to be at.

MSmits: should i do this before or after a search to optimize routes

shashwat986: Ah, I was a parent once

shashwat986: now my pacs are running around eating everyone in sight

Doju: This is still pretty ugly but oh well


dbdr: I think it's pretty orthogonal MSmits

shashwat986: i need to have a different talk with them. moderation

dbdr: you need both

MSmits: ah ok

Illedan: My bot thinks of the afterlife

MSmits: Doju

MSmits: it's indices

Doju: Thanks

dbdr: but might depend on your data structures

Doju: right

dbdr: good to give it a little thought in advance

Doju: Gotta make sure the grammar in my comments is correct

Doju: priorities :DD

MSmits: yeah :)

eulerscheZahl: dbdr about being mortal or about committing murder?

dbdr: being mortal

dbdr: my bot is a pacifist

dbdr: only kills by ignorance

eulerscheZahl: mine is evil

**dbdr is not surprised

**shashwat986 can do that? whoa

Illedan: I had to disable kill mode. It was worse :P

MSmits: I think I'm gonna make mine evil first and then do the search

Illedan: Chasing a pac loses a lot of turns

MSmits: yeah

dbdr: :peace:

eulerscheZahl: frame 60-70

shashwat986: what do you guys feel about having different strategies for different pacs?

shashwat986: worth it? not worth it?

Doju: shashwat986 interesting

Doju: but make them cooperate

Nerchio: chasing pacs is worth it guys

Nerchio: you can show you are a tougher guy

Illedan: I like that stra euler

MSmits: Illedan, you could put more heuristic on your kill mode to estimate loss of time

Illedan: I score a kill the same as picking 1 seen pellet :P

dbdr: need to implement pinky, blinky, clyde, etc :)

Nerchio: nice one euler :)

dbdr: inky is the 4th

Doju: Oh you have trapping strats

Doju: that's so cool

dbdr: at least we kno the boss names :D

eulerscheZahl: who will be the gold boss? Mrs pacman?

dbdr: should be a ghost I think

cegprakash: talking about gold already?


dbdr: well, the real contest starts in legend

eulerscheZahl: i thought there were only 4

dbdr: need to talk about sth before that

dbdr: 4 in the original

Default avatar.png ltmoran: There's Inky, blinky, pinky, sue

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I think lol

cegprakash: I think inky pinky ponky father has a donkey

Doju: Uhh do you guys think it's smart to have a probability that the pellet is eaten value for each cell?

eulerscheZahl: and one of them was bugged, targeting the wrong cell

Illedan: Sure Doju

MSmits: makes sense Doju

dbdr: yes, because of overflow or sth like that :D

Doju: Alright. that's next on the list after i get these things done then

eulerscheZahl: for now i just have 0.99^(turn-lastSeen)

cegprakash: mostly bronze boss is a ponky and silver boss is a donkey

dbdr: pellets rot with time

MSmits: eulerscheZahl do 0.99 * (200 + lastSeen - turn)

MSmits: cheaper

MSmits: or something like that anyway

eulerscheZahl: ?

eulerscheZahl: is that some performance hint again?

MSmits: no Math.pow

MSmits: :)

eulerscheZahl: i don't care

wlesavo: hm, my last seen only concerns opponent pacs rn

dbdr: an exponential can be done as a simple multiplication

MSmits: I know, I am just trolling

eulerscheZahl: and if i feel i have to get it faster, i cache it

dbdr: just use the previous value

kovi: i do turn by turn multiple

Nerchio: i dont consider probability yet :joy:


the_joker_100: any way to avoid this ??

the_joker_100: any tips???

MSmits: dont speed :P

MSmits: just grab the super and go

eulerscheZahl: you are running into the opponent paper with your stone. of course this is avoidable

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Joker

eulerscheZahl: 2nd death

Default avatar.png ltmoran: To stop bashing

the_joker_100: i have not even thought bout combat yet

Default avatar.png ltmoran: avoid bashing

the_joker_100: i just cant avoid striking one of my own

the_joker_100: lmao

MSmits: the tip is to think about combat then :)

wlesavo: lol

MSmits: I am going to try that today

Nerchio: remember when doing fighting simulation don't use Math.pow

the_joker_100: i got this problem where my own pacs run into each other and i cant find a way to detect that??

MSmits: lol

the_joker_100: my mid is goin crazy

the_joker_100: mid*

MSmits: KaPOW!

Default avatar.png ltmoran: lol

MSmits: the_joker_100, maybe stomach flu

wlesavo: MSmits did somebody from your ai class joined?

MSmits: yes Thiesjoo

the_joker_100: @MSmits what??lmao

MSmits: not my AI class btw it's physics

the_joker_100: mind*

MSmits: he's in my colleagues CS class

wlesavo: MSmits i meant your class where you are learning, not teaching

MSmits: ohh

the_joker_100: i entered top 600 hot damn

Nerchio: so you can't see enemy speed turns left ye?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I think you can?

wlesavo: wait what

MSmits: doubt it. It's a very small class, few students and they're all older and busy with other stuff in their life. They could barely finish the first assignment in time, wheras I finished all in 4 days

wlesavo: Nerchio i didnt checked that, just assumed i can, is there 0 on the input?

Nerchio: i think you can too

Nerchio: but somebody said you cant

Nerchio: and its faster to ask in chat xD

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Well it's give isn't it?

MSmits: would be sad if you couldnt

MSmits: that would make the game more random

MSmits: but all you really need to know is whether the pac is speeding or not. You can guess the speedturns left from the cooldown. Unless that is also hidden

cegprakash: if I print 5,5 as target from 4,4 will I move to 5,4 first or 4,5 first?

Nerchio: ok i debugged it you can see it

MSmits: dont think that is possible cegprakash

Nerchio: i just wish the description would be more clear

MSmits: I didnt see any 2 by 2 areas on a map

MSmits: generator probably doesnt make them

Nerchio: in almost every game there is a problem with description what info you get about opponent

MSmits: but anyway, at some point you really should not rely on referee pathfinding

cegprakash: MSmits cool then

MSmits: that is meant for starters

Nerchio: you also get information about their ability cooldown btw

cegprakash: so if RIGHT_DOWN is a valid move then DOWN_RIGHT will never be a valid move

wlesavo: Nerchio also just checked that

MSmits: The only weird think about pathing I found was that there is no way to go back and forth on a dead end and end on the same turn you started

MSmits: same cell that is

Nerchio: yea you need to go 1 sqm

Doju: Okay vision is semi-done now

Nerchio: wlesavo i see what you did there


Nerchio: 16-17 :p

cegprakash: wait what we can't do a DOWN_UP

cegprakash: oh yes

MSmits: allright no more chatting. Rest of the day is coding. I want to try and get a search and fight mode this weekend if I can

cegprakash: makes sense

cegprakash: yeah me too

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah me too

Default avatar.png ltmoran: except I won't be able to ;)

wlesavo: Nerchio :slight_smile:

Nerchio: i feel like at the very top there might be a lot of stalling

Nerchio: nobody wants to switch etc

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Can't you just keep the code that you submitted that got you into 3rd or seomthing

Default avatar.png ltmoran: then try something new

Default avatar.png ltmoran: then if it doesn't work

Default avatar.png ltmoran: resubmit your old code?

wlesavo: sure you can

the_joker_100: can anyone tell me how to detect whether my own 2 pacs are goin to collide???

the_joker_100: pls????

Nerchio: looks like i need to start working on the rock/paper/scissors more

Nerchio: you guys are getting trickier :D

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Check if the position of your pacs remained the same for two turns in a row

Default avatar.png ltmoran: if so

cegprakash: have a collision target map the_joker_100

Default avatar.png ltmoran: They are stuck

Default avatar.png ltmoran: then do something about it

the_joker_100: what??

shashwat986: is anyone caching the paths between two points? It's timing out for me

cegprakash: don't let two of ur pacs go to same location the_joker_100

the_joker_100: yeah i did check that @cegprakash

the_joker_100: but sometime even if they dont intend to go to smae square they do collide

mark7: the_joker_100 Check for 2 cells not one

the_joker_100: @mark7 could u explain?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Joker

Default avatar.png ltmoran: If

Default avatar.png ltmoran: You maintain the last positions of your pacs

Default avatar.png ltmoran: for two turns

Default avatar.png ltmoran: then you check if they haven't moved for two turns

mark7: may be they are two cells away so check wether a pac is near 2 cells

Default avatar.png ltmoran: then you can reverse them or something

the_joker_100: so i need a history of where my pacs have been to?

cegprakash: 1) don't go to same cell on same turn, 2) don't go towards same target on same cell. These two should guarantee u don't colllide

cegprakash: *same turn

Doju: oh nice! vision works

Doju: and it's not even that slow

Default avatar.png ltmoran: What sort of win:loss ratio is good for the past battles?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Or does that not matter at all?

cegprakash: ltmoran u need like 65% against like all opponents

Default avatar.png ltmoran: For what score?

cegprakash: even if u lose 80% against 1 or 2 opponents u won't climb the ladder LelouchVC2

Default avatar.png ltmoran: oh yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Well i'm winning like 70-80%

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And I'm stuck at around 200-300

cegprakash: yeah that means u have < 50% win rate at 200-300

Default avatar.png ltmoran: oh ok

Default avatar.png ltmoran: So

Default avatar.png ltmoran: What it means is

Default avatar.png ltmoran: oh ok

Default avatar.png ltmoran: thanks

cegprakash: and ur rank improves if u have a profile picture

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: hmm

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I see

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Makes sense ;)

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl do topcoder SRM tonight at 9:30 PM

cegprakash: that's IST

cegprakash: like 6 hours from now

Nerchio: your rank improves if you have a profile picture than antisquid likes

Doju: Noow we're talking

Nerchio: that*

Doju: non-blind pacs are much better than blind pacs :D

shashwat986: Nerchio !!

shashwat986: Are you caching the paths between two points?

Nerchio: no

shashwat986: hm

Nerchio: but i have very efficient path algo

Nerchio: working on ints so i can do it every turn

shashwat986: oh, that's a good idea

Nerchio: even in java :joy:

shashwat986: let me try to do the same thing

shashwat986: yeah, same boat. I'm on ruby

Doju: Is there any way to overlay something on the game?

Doju: it'd be reeally handy to see what my pacs are seeing

Nerchio: which one would you guys prefer to read


Nerchio: 1 or 2

Default avatar.png ltmoran: 1 for me

the_joker_100: im much comfortable with 2

shashwat986: 1

Nerchio: i prefer 1 ofcourse but maybe it's hard to read for some :p

jrke: 1 for me also

the_joker_100: i just dont have the habit of no 1

cegprakash: 1

Default avatar.png BenWo: I like 1

the_joker_100: im the only noob here

Nerchio: yeah in my first contest i was writing 2 all the time but 1 feels so much better for me now

shashwat986: i think 2 is clearer if you have even one more condition

cegprakash: we have all been there the_joker_100

shashwat986: for 2 conditions, 1 is clear enough

Nerchio: i feel like simplifying if statements is important in the challenges

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

Nerchio: otherwise you spend a lot of time debugging later

Default avatar.png ltmoran: i agree

Default avatar.png ltmoran: otherwise your code just piles up

RockyMullet: woah hoyl mother of drift, I was 50th yesterday and I'm now 24th

RockyMullet: no way I can resubmit haha

Nerchio: you will have to resubmit sooner or later RockyMullet

Nerchio: might as well do it now :D

RockyMullet: I'm over euler when he was like 6th yesterday, this cant be right

RockyMullet: Nerchio I know, I just wanna believe I'm good for a moment haha

RockyMullet: A little lie to help self esteem

Nerchio: euler is working on some nasty traps of pacs :D

dbdr: it's as if this game had a RPS component ;)

Nerchio: he posted it earlier


Nerchio: 60-70 :D

Default avatar.png BenWo: alrighty, bronze league. now the work begins

wlesavo: lol its a trap

shashwat986: My first move is taking 978ms XD

Default avatar.png BenWo: lol yikes

RockyMullet: shashwat986 no waste ! :)

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Yesterday i was rank 400 and now with the same code i am rtank 1200. What's going on here

Default avatar.png ltmoran: people are learning

Default avatar.png ltmoran: A lot

Default avatar.png ltmoran: annoyingly

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: And fast

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

AntiSquid: lol

Doju: Indeed

Default avatar.png ltmoran: that's the bad bit

mark7: shashwat986 what you do that much

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: I saw euler laying traps

Doju: euler's traps are freaking amazing

shashwat986: I am trying to precache all paths between all points on the map

AntiSquid: no ... all the bots below rank 400 aren't even taking all game rules into consideration

shashwat986: it's not happening

RockyMullet: shashwat986 I do that, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, what language are you using ?

mark7: shashwat986 I am trying the that but I get times out

Doju: my bot gets absolutely demolished by euler's

Doju: 126 to 26

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: I had 120 vs 100

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: So im doing better

Default avatar.png ltmoran: How can I play Euler's?

Doju: you delete the default ai

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Delete default ai and add Euler

Default avatar.png ltmoran: How do I do that?

Nerchio: you cant debug vs euler

Doju: okay now it was 162-110

Nerchio: he's abusing code that crashed in ide

Nerchio: crashes*

shashwat986: RockyMullet what language do you use? I'm using ruby

Doju: Oh huh i haven't played against myself yet

Doju: this'll be interesting

Default avatar.png ltmoran: lol

RockyMullet: oh ok, im using C++, so maybe the problem is not the algo

Default avatar.png ltmoran: How do I delete the default AI

Doju: ltmoran you click "DELETE" :D

Default avatar.png ltmoran: lol

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I guessed that might be the case

Doju: It went 142-118

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Except I can't find the delete button

Doju: below the ai

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Set your IDE to advanced mode

Doju: at the bottom

Doju: oh rightt there's that

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: In settings in the left bar

shashwat986: RockyMullet you're storing the best PATH between every two points?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: ah cheers

shashwat986: or just the distance?

Nerchio: nerchio vs nerchio is pretty hilarous


Default avatar.png ltmoran: Had to change the IDE type

Nerchio: i can't ever win against myself

mark7: shashwat986

Doju: Don't you have any randomness in your ai?

Nerchio: no why would i do that in this game

Nerchio: randomness means you don't know which move is better and in ideal situation you should always know

Doju: hm, fair enough

shashwat986: Doju randomness makes it very hard to debug as well, because the pacs' behaviour aren't reproducible

RockyMullet: maybe I'm dumb but I cant find it in the statement, how to do I make pacs write debug text over there head ?

shashwat986: add it to the end of the command

Doju: You just add it after the command RockyMullet

shashwat986: MOVE 0 1 2 MSG

RockyMullet: shashwat986 I'm storing the distance and the first move to do to get tehre

RockyMullet: oooh thanks guys

Doju: okayyy time to implement speeding up

Doju: maybe that'll push me up the ladder a bit

RockyMullet: with a bfs

Default avatar.png cguzman: @Nerchio what approach are you following?

Nerchio: get more pellets than your opponent :neutral_face:

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Wow that is a good strategy.

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I wish I'd thought of that

Doju: there are sooo many things i could still do...

Doju: i don't even acknowledge the enemies atm

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: My todolist is pretty large

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: I now know if i will die from the enemy, but what now?

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Fleeing is an option

RockyMullet: run or switch

Default avatar.png cguzman: Why didn't I think in that? I was just walking through the maze. Very smart @Nerchio

wlesavo: let your eval decide

NormantasStankevicius: 2100 people in bronze >.>

Default avatar.png BenWo: I just made it to bronze. All my code does is move all of the pacs towards pellets.

Default avatar.png ltmoran: hmm

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I have a 500 char line

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I should probably fix that

Doju: BenWo yup that gets you to bronze

wlesavo: oh, the bogol guy submitted, i though i saw the avatar somewhere

eulerscheZahl: i'll follow him and submit too

Nerchio: who is bogol

eulerscheZahl: and i crashed

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

wlesavo: blame him for this eulerscheZahl

wlesavo: Nerchio it is a quite interesting game in contributions\

Default avatar.png cguzman: is there a tutorial to configure all this in an IDE?

eulerscheZahl: i think that's the closest to what you are asking for:

eulerscheZahl: of course there are other ways, i just describe with i'm doing

ZeroByter: When u move with speed, in order to actually use speed u gotta MOVE 2 cells away, right?

aCat: yep

aCat: 2 or more

eulerscheZahl: yes. and both have to be free

Doju: that's suuch a pain

eulerscheZahl: why?

ZeroByter: Hmmm

ZeroByter: Trying to use speed but it's not working, but it's not a bug or something, I gotta fix it

Doju: eulerscheZahl atm my bot just searches for the closest pellet using BFS

Doju: but to make that work i have to do the same BFS on the first pellet

AntiSquid: feeding AutomatonNN euler lines :o

AutomatonNN: ?

AntiSquid: don't act innocent AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: so if i want to work in the players that i saw it in the replay there

shashwat986: did it!

shashwat986: I've been able to pre-cache all paths from all points

Doju: nice, how long does it take?

shashwat986: had to use the fact that the map is symmetrical. Now to re-write all my wrapper functions

shashwat986: 484ms.

shashwat986: half of what it was taking earlier

Doju: so just about half of the original time

shashwat986: yeah

RockyMullet: nice

ZeroByter: Oh man I haven't even checked what is my execution time lol

whadk: can other people see debug messages you put on your pac

Doju: i think they can

whadk: oh ok

Nerchio: they can on the screen but they can't read them from input

Doju: ugh implementing the 2-long movement is going to be suuch a pain

whadk: why do you need bfs to find the nearest pellet out of curiousity?

Doju: seriously what

Doju: how do you even do it

ZeroByter: Just so I get this straight. When u have speed (and assuming u use it correctly), u r supposed to move across 2 cells at a time?

Doju: yup

ZeroByter: Weird

ZeroByter: Not doing it for me

Doju: when there are pellets next to my pacs they only move 1 cell at a time even with speed :(

Default avatar.png BenWo: can you just ignore the immediately adjacent cells when they have speed?

wlesavo: not really

Default avatar.png BenWo: I mean in his pathfinding

Doju: what if there's nothing to get outside of the immediately adjacent cells

RockyMullet: or time to ruin all that nice drifting with a resubmit

Default avatar.png BenWo: well... either the game ends before then, or you didn't need to use speed at that point

RockyMullet: I just take a last look at it... before I have to let it go :cry:

Doju: hkm

Doju: my rank actually dropped by 600

Doju: when i turned speeding on

RockyMullet: you need to be moving by 2 cells otherwise you are just wasting a turn

Doju: yup

eulerscheZahl: what if there is a last pellet in the corner?

eulerscheZahl: don't pick it up?!

RockyMullet: well then you can waste a turn :P

Default avatar.png BenWo: if there's one pellet left, and you're next to it, just grab it instead of using speed

Default avatar.png BenWo: it costs a turn to activate speed anyway, right?

Doju: well yeah

Default avatar.png BenWo: so using speed is only faster for pellets 4+ cells away

Doju: isn't it 3?

Default avatar.png BenWo: it might be 3, I'm not sure how the turns are calculated

Doju: hmm yeha

Doju: that might be smart

Doju: except that... no

Doju: xd

Default avatar.png BenWo: if the pac just moves 2 squares on one turn, then cell 3 would be simultaneous for with and without speed

Doju: that's gonna be messy to implement for me

Doju: so i'm just gonna do another round of pathfinding

Doju: from the closest pellet

Default avatar.png BenWo: sounds good enough :)

Default avatar.png BenWo: I'm better at thinking this stuff than actually programming it, lol

Doju: that's kinda good though, isn't it?

Default avatar.png BenWo: not in a contest, lol

Doju: no lines of codes is better than some lines of code

Doju: if they achieve the same result

Default avatar.png BenWo: hah, that's true

Doju: there has to be a better way to do this...

Doju: oh, maybe just check if the neighbors of the pellet are also a pellet

Doju: and the path is linear

akshat: I

akshat: I'm not sure how to implement BFS in this, should I find the most profitable route for each pac assuming pellets at unexplored area or just find it for nearby cells upto depth 5? Need some guidance here please.

MadKnight: akshat u should find a way how to find your opp

Doju: Hm... I'm currently just assuming there are pellets everywhere unless i see they aren't there

Doju: and pathfinding to the imaginary pellets

MadKnight: how to fight your opp i mean

Doju: or actually, superposition-pellets :D

MadKnight: u gotta beat him and not just collect stuff

Doju: wdym, i'm a pacifist

MadKnight: make problems for him

akshat: Okay...

Doju: maybe he is too

Doju: _p

Doju: :P*

MadKnight: fix your p

Doju: :p

Doju: Okayyy now i have pathfinding on pathfinding

Doju: lets see if this helps

MadKnight: why do u have it on it ?

Default avatar.png BenWo: so you can find your way to the path?

Doju: MadKnight because I want to utilize the speed

Doju: my old thing was just pathing to the nearest pellet

Doju: and if it was next to the pac, the speed was useless

Doju: now i'm getting the closest pellet to the closest pellet

Doju: (which, by no means is perfect)

AntiSquid: MadKnight how's your bot? i have 10 lines of C++ at #571

NormantasStankevicius: you mean take the cloest pellet near you xd?

Doju: NormantasStankevicius not really. I'm first finding the closest pellet to the pac and then finding the pellet closest to that

Doju: that rhymed

the_joker_100: uhhhhhhhh

NormantasStankevicius: uhhhhhhhhhh

eulerscheZahl: AntiSquid you can do the same with 5 lines of ruby

Doju: uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Default avatar.png BenWo: huh

NormantasStankevicius: that is a way doju tbh

NormantasStankevicius: right now I have a simple path

NormantasStankevicius: testing what is better for now closest pellet or most valuable pellet, but I will need to thing of a way

eulerscheZahl: almost 3k players already :o

aCat: 2.1k in bronze ;p

eulerscheZahl: quick poll to the new players here: how did you find CodinGame? friends? forum post? ...?

NormantasStankevicius: eulerschezahl, while that is great, it's quite scary also, this competition might be a meat grinder

Uljahn: Automaton2000: 2pac or not 2pac?

Automaton2000: looks the same as in the game


Doju: why is id different? and it's throwing an error

NormantasStankevicius: Doju is that python?

Doju: yes, python

Doju: i just changed their order.. that used to work

AntiSquid: the instafluff streamer has a lot of viewers

Doju: Oh its a function

eulerscheZahl: that instafluff used to be "TheSauce"

eulerscheZahl: first appearance in fantastic bits i think

eulerscheZahl: then he left

AntiSquid: maybe this contest does beat the accountant in participation count

NormantasStankevicius: AntiSquid just opened his streams, looks professional

AntiSquid: really?

AntiSquid: i think there's too much going on on his screen

aCat: link?

Gh0stm4chine: yeah link please ?

AntiSquid: clouds and teddies and god knows what else, way too cluttered for my taste


aCat: thx

AntiSquid: no offence to the guy though

NormantasStankevicius: Antisquid true

aCat: omg

aCat: unwatchable

AntiSquid: idk i skipped through it like usually, there's few good points he makes

Doju: oh wait this is recursive now...

aCat: I believe so, but watching is too much

AntiSquid: i remember thibaud asking on discord which streamers do we like / follow

AntiSquid: if they like one of the really big guys they kill the website :D

eulerscheZahl: i muted the streaming channel on discord

aCat: I like to take a look on thibpaut from time to time

aCat: never tried to watch clashes :P

Doju: yeah doing 2x pathfinding works pretty well NormantasStankevicius

AntiSquid: is life really not worth anything to you ?

AntiSquid: watching clashes @_@

aCat: 'never tried'

aCat: ?

Uljahn: watching someone clashing in c++ could be fun though

aCat: bleh I imagine shortest code in Java ;p

eulerscheZahl: only if the neighbor's cat suddenly enters the house :D

AntiSquid: or if they get a random burglar during stream:

akshat: Do you guys create totally new instances of your pacs and pellets array or just create once in the start and then update them?

akshat: What is preferable?

Doju: Pacs are new instances, pellets inbedded into the grid

Doju: for me

Doju: imbedded*

akshat: Okay..

the_joker_100: how do i check which one of my pacs sees an enemy??

Doju: Might change it so that i create pacs only once though

Doju: its getting kinda messy

anid: makes sense to create pacs only once, so that you can store all of the information that a pac sees easily

anid: and its previous target

Doju: yup

RockyMullet: the_joker_100 if an enemy pac in in the input, one of your pac sees it

the_joker_100: but which one sees it??

RockyMullet: you can make a line of sight check after that

Doju: the_joker_100 you might want to do something like i did

the_joker_100: what did u do?

RockyMullet: just travel in 4 direction until you find a wall, thats your pac's line of sight

Doju: my pac class has a method that returns cells that are visible to it

the_joker_100: kk

the_joker_100: that would be really helpful

the_joker_100: ty

RockyMullet: you can use the same thing to determine which of your pacs sees pellets

the_joker_100: kk

the_joker_100: yeaaaaaah

the_joker_100: damn dint even think of that

RockyMullet: so the pac on the other side of the map doesnt travel all the way there, making all your pacs staying together, which is not good

Doju: RockyMullet that's exactly what i'm doing

Doju: no more phantom pellets

RockyMullet: good good

Doju: this actually seems to be working super well

RockyMullet: my pellet gathering still sucks, but that change made it way better

Bastett: Ugh. I should read harder. I assumed pac id was unique, not unique per team.

RockyMullet: Bastett yeah same hahaha, was confused by all the bugs it created

Doju: This is silly

Doju: my pacs leave the last one or two pellets at dead ends untouched

735487: wow i see some bug I won but shown as second

Default avatar.png BenWo: ok out for now, later

Doju: cycya

eulerscheZahl: amurushkin the avatars above the game are different too

eulerscheZahl: sometimes it happens that it loads a different game than the one you selected

Doju: slightly wonky speeding apparently gets me to rank 600

735487: ah did not see that avatars different. anyway it looks cool :)

Doju: i wondwer ow much how much it'll improve if i fix it

Bastett: noice, down goes Blinky

Bastett: with my rather naive "find the closest food" strategy

Clagus: gj Bastett

Clagus: guys do you know if I can try my code in some other way than through web ide? I'm so sick of keeping all my code in one file... I would like to have multiple files, nicely split code, but then it would be hard to copy-paste it to web ide and run or submit

Bastett: I've written a little bash script to build my source files into one

Bastett: it's one line of bash

Bastett: find src/ -name obj -prune -o -name bin -prune -o -name '*.cs' -exec cat {} \; > game.cs

Clagus: oh, ok, I thought it would be harder to do that

Bastett: that ones finds all .cs files in src/ excluding bin/ and obj and compiles into game.cs

Clagus: sick

Clagus: :D

Clagus: so i should run it in my solution folder?

eulerscheZahl: you can add usings anywhere in the code, not only at the top?

mark7: close fight eulerscheZahl May be a bit better pellet searching algo and I will be in top 50

eulerscheZahl: i'm coding in C# for many years, why didn't I know about that?

Bastett: for c#, usings would need to go inside the namespace declaration of each file

mark7: MY current submit improved My rank by 1000

Bastett: otherwise you'll get duplicate usings, and they'll fail to compile

Doju: mark7 woah, what did you do?

mark7: I rewrote whole code

eulerscheZahl: i see. i don't even define a namespace

Doju: oh i see haha

mark7: first in c++ then delete that wrote again in java

eulerscheZahl: and my bundler removes duplicate usings

Clagus: the file was created but is empty...

eulerscheZahl: do you have a C# project Clagus?

PiterYeh: eulerscheZahl what are you using for bundling? I'm coding in visual studio but i have just one big file

mark7: in java writing to error string takes to much time

Clagus: yes :D

mark7: There are scripts available for java

Clagus: i'm not that dumb xD

eulerscheZahl: a bit of python PiterYeh, i run it as a post-build event


PiterYeh: noice

PiterYeh: thanks

eulerscheZahl: next question Clagus: windows or linux?

Clagus: windows

eulerscheZahl: i'm not sure if the code will work then

Clagus: yeah, it seems not

Bastett: you can use Windows Subsystem for Linux

Bastett: or write the same thing in Powershell or Linqpad or whatever

eulerscheZahl: you can install a linux

Clagus: yeah i will try it in powershell

mark7: Or just modify the code alittle bit

dbdr: always a good idea to install linux :)

Clagus: thanks for the tip anyway :)

dbdr: that said, a python script should work on windows, maybe needs some minor change

mark7: Yeah use linux

dbdr: if eulerscheZahl coded in a dirty way ;)

eulerscheZahl: i was referring to the batch command not working

Bastett: Python isn't my friend. I got so frustrated with virtual environments, and py2/3 incompatibilities

eulerscheZahl: find src/ -name obj -prune -o -name bin -prune -o -name '*.cs' -exec cat {} \; > game.cs

Bastett: I'm sure it's better now, but it annoyed me

dbdr: oh, sorry, thought it was a pure python script

AntiSquid: how many people will promote i wonder

eulerscheZahl: mine is

AntiSquid: will they still got for the around 50% ?

eulerscheZahl: but Clagus tried the bash from Bastett

Bastett: this chat needs threads like Slack or something :P

eulerscheZahl: CG doesn't want to make players sad, now that we got so many

eulerscheZahl: i predict a large silver

AntiSquid: you can have separate chat rooms, create as many as you want #chat_name .... #another_chat

dbdr: I dunno, CG systematically overreacts

AntiSquid: just cleak any of those Bastett

eulerscheZahl: and usually there's much less activity on the chat

dbdr: bronze is large, they might be a #50 boss now :D

AntiSquid: lol not in bronze

AntiSquid: uness they want to kill the contest

dbdr: exagerating

RockyMullet: the bronze boss is usually pretty noob friendly

eulerscheZahl: jupoulton at 250 right now

eulerscheZahl: will drop a bit till monday

dbdr: but did you notice: super easy wood bosses in OOC -> super hard in pac2020

Nerchio: you mean the opposite? :p

dbdr: super fast decay of COC CPs, => super slow

AntiSquid: :D

dbdr: etc

AntiSquid: wood supposed to be easy !?

dbdr: I did mean the opposite :)

eulerscheZahl: we don't know the date for the next contest yet

mark7: frame 14 looks like my bot don't like supper pellets

RockyMullet: wood was only "hard" because the servers were slow and people wouldnt get promoted, so you would fight way harder opponents than the boss

dbdr: probably 2 weeks after this one, at this rate ;)

AntiSquid: what? why

dbdr: or 2 years

dbdr: well this one is very close to OOC

RockyMullet: from what I understand OOC was not planned

dbdr: I know

RockyMullet: still way better than the overlapping ones

dbdr: overlapping?

RockyMullet: yeah, like at the same time

AntiSquid: those were hidden

dbdr: when was that?

RockyMullet: like HS and the accountent

AntiSquid: oh ?

dbdr: I wasn't born at that time

ZarthaxX: LOL

Gh0stm4chine: guys, what's considered a good ranking currently in bronze ?

RockyMullet: Let me tell you the story boi *rock the rocking chair rocking a mullet*

AntiSquid: top 100 Gh0stm4chine ?

dbdr: :popcorn:

eulerscheZahl: interesting starting constellation. you can't escape with 100% certainty

RockyMullet: no I lie I dont want tell it lol

cegprakash: ppl in bronze are improving so fast

RockyMullet: The Accountant started before HS ended, thats it

**eulerscheZahl skipped TAC, no time

Gh0stm4chine: AntiSquid, top 100 is gold ? or depends ?

AntiSquid: depends obv

AntiSquid: but you asked about bot strength ? what a decent bot is ?

RockyMullet: so did I, HS was my second contest, so I went ultra tryhard, like going to bed at 4am etc, so I didnt have the energy for it

eulerscheZahl: i remember how you tried at HS

RockyMullet: AND FAILED

RockyMullet: haha

eulerscheZahl: and thinking that your bot was a good killer

RockyMullet: I just coded fast so I was #1 early

RockyMullet: then actual good bot shown up :P

eulerscheZahl: but now you know that an early lead means nothing

anid: Surprising that already 3000 people have joined

RockyMullet: yes, life has broken my optimism since

eulerscheZahl: 2975

RockyMullet: I seen some sponsored ad on FB about the contest, first time I see that, maybe CG poored more money in advertising this time

anid: And already more than 70% Are in Bronze

AntiSquid: but why did they advertise this so much ?

AntiSquid: there's no special sponsor or somesuch

RockyMullet: probably because they are now trying to have less contests

RockyMullet: but bigger ones

AntiSquid: sounds ok

RockyMullet: im just guessing here

RockyMullet: yay last submit got me to 34th :D progress !

dbdr: confinement also helps probably

dbdr: and the prizes

dbdr: and marketing indeed

RockyMullet: yeah makes sense

Doju: I'm not sure whether I should be making my code robust to human error

dbdr: also people learned about this one during OOC

RockyMullet: I think the company / school leaderboard must help for some peer pressure too

Doju: or fix the human errors

dbdr: true

dbdr: it's a good addition

Bastett: yeah I got into this in Ocean of Code via work chatter

AntiSquid: do companies want the personalized glass that much ?

Doju: because atm my pacs are just defaulting to going to the middle because their pathfinding returns None

AntiSquid: wroclaw winning a CG glass ... put it in the hallway as decoration lol

cegprakash: [CG]Thibaud our company logo and website needs to be updated on leaderboard

cegprakash: I have emailed u [CG]Thibaud

anid: cegprakash are there others in pandocorp playing?

Bastett: I assume we're restricted to a single core on these simulations. I've not tried any multithreading. Is there documentation about that anywhere?

cegprakash: they might play anid

anid: :) Get in top 10!!!

Clagus: so I made a script in powershell to copy all .cs files to one big .txt file: get-content *.cs | out-file bigBadFile.txt

cegprakash: sure

eulerscheZahl: yes, single core

eulerscheZahl: and you are paused during your opponent's turn

AntiSquid: there are 2 wood players from pandocorp, they are not your alts cegprakash are they ?

Bastett: @clagus you'll probably want to exclude ob/ otherwise you might end up with AssemblyInfo.cs (unless you're only searching in the current directory)

Bastett: obj/ that is

cegprakash: they are not AntiSquid I asked my collegues to register

Clagus: @Bastett yeah - it seems that it only gets files in current folder

AntiSquid: you're not in top 100 on the company leaderboard cegprakash

cegprakash: No I can see it

Bastett: @clagus that works if you haven't organized your code into multiple directories. Good enough :)

anid: Yeah they are 84th

Bastett: Right, bronze. Hurrah.

AntiSquid: oh

AntiSquid: was looking at schools

Doju: "grid = grid.grid"

Doju: clean and legible

Doju: :D

Clagus: @Bastett yeah :D for now I just want to split my single file a bit :P

AntiSquid: nice

Clagus: @Bastett thx for help

shashwat986: Wait, this doesn't even make sense. I fix collisions, and I lose 60 ranks. Maybe my pacs headbutting themselves had some deeper strategic meaning?

Doju: Maybe :P

Bastett: @shashwat986 are both your headbutting pacs abandoning the high value area you were heading to?

Bastett: or is one yielding to the other?

AntiSquid: 60 ranks is noise shashwat986

shashwat986: One's yielding to the other. That

shashwat986: I think it's probably picking up some even more suboptimal path

shashwat986: I need to work on pellet selection

shashwat986: Thanks AntiSquid, I hope you're right

AntiSquid: 2167 people in the same league, ofc i am right

RockyMullet: Is there a way to tell an enemy pac is dead not just out of sight ?

AntiSquid: just resubmit

cegprakash: try changing ur profile pic shashwat986

AntiSquid: why ? it's a nice pic

mark7: really cegprakash changin profile pic doesn't imporve your rank

shashwat986: Oh crap! Maybe it's bringing balance to the pacs, leading them to give my enemies a few more pellets

shashwat986: mark7 I'm sure he was kidding XD

tobk: I fixed my pacs to actually do 2 steps instead of just one when on speed and lost 30 ranks, too...

mark7: Ya me too :joy:

whadk: what order are the visble pacs given in?

cegprakash: if u change ur profile pic u can confuse opponents.. they forgot who you are and they play differently so u win

eulerscheZahl: by id

whadk: are they like left to right or something

whadk: oh ok

mark7: 0, 1, 2, 3 ..

whadk: but what about opponent ones?

whadk: is it yours first or theirs first

whadk: or alternate

tobk: what does it matter?

RockyMullet: yeah it shouldnt

RockyMullet: matter

cegprakash: just store them in an array the way u like whadk

whadk: yeah i was just wondering

cegprakash: just use the indexing convenient to you while printing original index

tobk: never really paid attention to it. i usually put mine in a map id -> pac or (x,y)->pac anyway

njaber: Is there any situation where having our pacman do nothing would be optimal?

whadk: it doesnt matter now that i realise

Doju: oh

shashwat986: njaber blocking an opposing pac ?

Doju: i've been trying to find why my code doesn't work

tobk: yes, when trapped in a deadend and an opp pac that can kill you inthe only adjacnt cell

Doju: my cell.get_neighbours() has no return line -.-

shashwat986: ouch

njaber: Oh right, then I need to count that as a possibility :(

mark7: Does submitting make your rank go back.. Like I submitted and directly my rank went to 1300 from 550?

ZarthaxX: it resets for the submit yes

tobk: anyone using simulations/random plays/GA and the like yet, or mostly still if/else trees?

mark7: if else

mark7: :joy:

Doju: I have absolutely no simulations

Beerus: please show me memory errors instead of timeouts damn it

Doju: also no consideration for pellet values

tobk: thinking about using random plays for finding paths with most pellets...

Beerus: i use mcts

mark7: Ohh I do find path with most pellets like for depth of 35

shashwat986: The fact that i'm able to get so much of my spaggeti code to execute every turn within 50ms just makes me remark at how cool computers are

Doju: Wait, you guys actually put some thought into your pathing?

Doju: mine is still just closest pellet

mark7: Yes.

mark7: What if you dont find any pellet

Doju: pick a random cell and roll with it :D

eulerscheZahl: of course we plan our paths

tobk: I create a heatmap from pellet values, with the 10s spreading a bit to surrounding fields

tobk: but it's not optimal if the spread from the 10 occludes all the 1s on the way

tobk: (i.e. can't tell if a cell has 1 or 0 if there is a 10 closeby)

Doju: Wait, there's no point to bfs if you just simulate everything with random moves, right?

eulerscheZahl: there is

eulerscheZahl: you can only apply moves to a certain depth

eulerscheZahl: then you have a "final" board state and apply some scoring to it

eulerscheZahl: like the distance to other pellets

Doju: ooh

mark7: I dont maintain a board state

Doju: I see

Doju: mark7 then how do you pick which action path to take?

JRFerguson: hi all, is the forum dead ?

mark7: for Every Pac check all four direction go to direction with most pellets and no collision with other pacs

mark7: and some more conditions..

eulerscheZahl: yes, dead

Doju: Can you even do simulation to any meaningful depth with python?

Doju: It seems like speed would really become an issue

mark7: you can

Default avatar.png Noaaaa: god im so bad at this

Uljahn: python, simulation, meaningful: choose any two

AntiSquid: which god ? be more specific

JRFerguson: i need help understanding some specifics about movement

JRFerguson: if 2 pacs are next to each other, different type

JRFerguson: one moves left, other moves right

JRFerguson: how is that resolved ?

eulerscheZahl: they are now further away, if the left one is the one moving left

eulerscheZahl: otherwise: the killing pacman will move, the other is blocked

JRFerguson: yeah, stupid question really, thx euler

eulerscheZahl: 2999 players already

Doju: I just got an idea...

Doju: or a few of them, actually

Doju: I don't think I'm gonna need monte carlo

eulerscheZahl: the simulation is the "lazy way" to cover a lot of cases without much code

eulerscheZahl: 3000 :tada: :balloon:

AntiSquid: 3k !

AntiSquid: and it's only first saturday :D

GetSchwifty: #lockdown

Default avatar.png Over9000: I got this weird error a couple of times now ...

Default avatar.png Over9000: I get the second to last to line of the grid

Default avatar.png Over9000: OK

Default avatar.png Over9000: I try to get last line of grid

Default avatar.png Over9000: TIMEOUT

AntiSquid: nah, it's obviously flawless game design GetSchwifty

AntiSquid: or the prizes

GetSchwifty: or the community ;)

Doju: there's PRIZES?!

GetSchwifty: i'm glad I now have a productive distraction

eulerscheZahl: a monitor for the winner

Doju: Time to make the best bot ever

Doju: or at least try

eulerscheZahl: at the bottom

GetSchwifty: no more blind programming!

Doju: GetSchwifty lol

eulerscheZahl: my monitor slowly breaks :(

Doju: I just got a new one but that fancy curved VA one wouldn't hurt

eulerscheZahl: when i open a window for a longer time, i can still see where it was 5 minutes after i closed it

Doju: ouch

Doju: that does hurt

eulerscheZahl: i have that monitor for about 8 years now and in general i really like it

eulerscheZahl: 2560x1440

eulerscheZahl: 27"

Doju: should i have my method for getting a cell's neighbours in the cell class or in the grid class?

Doju: It seems silly either way

Illedan: w00t, that worked :D

Doju: in the cell class i need to pass in the grid

Doju: and in the grid class i need to pass in the cell's pos

Clagus: in the grid

Clagus: cell should not know about other cells

eulerscheZahl: why not?

Doju: i meaannn...

Doju: my cells have parents

Doju: :D

eulerscheZahl: easier to enumerate your movement options when you loop over the list of neighbors

eulerscheZahl: and no more torus pain. just add the neighbors and done

Clagus: I thought it was a theoretical question :D

Doju: yeah it was

Doju: i think :d

Doju: lemme think about this

Clagus: like from the object-oriented point of view, with single responsibility

eulerscheZahl: that's a coding contest, not a design contest

Clagus: but if the other cells are family, then I guess it's ok :D

GetSchwifty: alabama?

Doju: rofl

shashwat986: JRFerguson since they're colliding, but they're different types, the winner moves, the loser gets blocked, and they're both in the same spot for a second

Doju: Im gonna rewrite that in the grid class and see if it's better

shashwat986: wait, what question did i just answer?

Doju: and tbh i need to rewrite it anyways

eulerscheZahl: this one shashwat986

eulerscheZahl: if 2 pacs are next to each other, different type one moves left, other moves right how is that resolved ?

shashwat986: right

shashwat986: thanks

shashwat986: so since we have 2 pacs in the same spot, the winner eats the loser

shashwat986: (at least that's what i understand from the rules)

Default avatar.png mortenschioler: 2Pac's in the game?

shashwat986: lots of them, up to 5 per team, I think, in bronze

tomatoes: and winner also eat pellet?

Tiramon: pellets are eaten after fight so yes

Doju: Actually, should my cell class even have a position?

Doju: since that's technically stored in the grid

Doju: extra-actually:

Doju: why do i even have a cell class

Doju: oh right, it needs to have a parent and "explored"

Doju: nvm

mark7: OMG GUYS MY BOT BEAT eulerscheZahl 's BOT THIS IS EPIC


eulerscheZahl: oh i crashed. thanks for reporting

mark7: :joy:

Doju: hahah

mark7: And I jumped out of my chair

Doju: How do you get the neighbours of cell in a 2d array

Doju: in a clean fashion in python?

Doju: i googled around but nobody really has a good method that doesn't rely on imports

shashwat986: Can only I see my STDERR stream?

ZarthaxX: ye

mark7: check x - 1, x + 1, y - 1, y + 1

eulerscheZahl: not python Doju but to get the idea. i removed the torus part on purpose


mark7: also wrap around like this

mark7: if (curScore.x < 0) curScore.x = height - 1;

       if (curScore.y < 0) curScore.y = width - 1;
       if (curScore.x >= height) curScore.x = 0;
       if (curScore.y >= width) curScore.y = 0;

ZarthaxX: lots of ifs

mark7: Ya

Doju: Oh yeah eulerscheZahl's method is definitely way better than mine

ZarthaxX: Point move_in_dir(Point& p, int d, int w, int h) { return Point((p.x + dirs4[d].x + w) % w, (p.y + dirs4[d].y + h) % h); }

Doju: thanks

cegprakash: or just do curScore %= (height, width)

ZarthaxX: if u do modulo u can wraparound

perseverent: can you switch speed and move at the same time?

mark7: no

mark7: not woth same pac

cegprakash: but yeah need to handle negative modulo

perseverent: thanks

ZarthaxX: no need if u do what i did

Doju: and yeah mark7 that's pretty much what i was planning to do

Doju: now how would you do the same thing for an n-dimension array?

Doju: not that i need to do it

Doju: just that doing anything like this in a dimension-independent way is, in my experience, almost always the best way

Doju: just a whole lot of ifs and loops?

Tiramon: great had a bug in building my grid ...arg

Tiramon: yay now the testcase is successfull =)

Tiramon: always worth creating some testcases ;)

eulerscheZahl: unit tests, so advanced

eulerscheZahl: i'm lazy

Doju: you have testcases? :o

cegprakash: did somebody say testcases?

Tiramon: i want to make sure my pathfinding works as expected

shashwat986: are there any other ruby devs here?

AntiSquid: MadKnight

eulerscheZahl: not really a dev, he never writes more than 5 lines

shashwat986: XD

AntiSquid: on the leaderboard page select ruby under language

AntiSquid: 29 total

AntiSquid: one might be a dev in real life

mark7: eulerscheZahl another win this one is clear one.. but I need to still imporve my path finding when less pallets


Hvosten: Hi , I'm writing new chellenge in groovy Sometimes I have time out and without changing code, when I gave replay in the same conditions everything works fine. My algorithm is deterministic. So I dont know if there is some problem with groovy here :/

AntiSquid: you could report it on discord or on the forums

Kellthazar: Is anyone using QuadTree to improve the pathfind code?

Doju: Kellthazar definitely not

mark7: What is a QuadTree

Default avatar.png Over9000: Hvosten Well some variation in timing is natural, due to server load, scheduling, and other factors

mark7: Ohh like Binary tree

Doju: i mean definitely not me

Doju: someone might be, who knows

Default avatar.png Over9000: So if you're always close to timeout it might sometimes hit the limit

AntiSquid: that sounded like it's meant to be a special amazing data structure, you should have joined during last contest, see what name you can find for that kind of tree (ocean of code) Kellthazar

mark7: Looks like bronze leader-board is stuck

Kellthazar: Hahaha... my A* reach the 1000ms timeout if calcs the distance for every point.

cegprakash: mark7 go study for ur exams. Why are u coding instead of studying for exams :p

mark7: My exams got posponed

mark7: and who wants to study Network Mangement

mark7: :joy:

Doju: Oh btw i think you could speed up pathfinding a lot

Doju: if you optimize it so that

mark7: Or just don't do pathfindin

cegprakash: yeah ditch Network Management learn Neural Networks instead

Doju: if one square in a path is in the path from some other square to the same goal you just copy the rest of the path

Kellthazar: I use path find only to calc the "real" distances between walkable floors.

Doju: ooor just make some nodes or something

eulerscheZahl: told you to do BFS

eulerscheZahl: hey YannT is online ping

Illedan: wow 3k players now

YannT: yo

eulerscheZahl: codeforces announced another Kotlin heroes

eulerscheZahl: May 29th

mark7: codeforces div 4 :joy:

YannT: what be dat

mark7: how low would they go now

eulerscheZahl: 2.5h, about 6-10 problems to solve. Kotlin only

eulerscheZahl: tshirts for top50 + 50 random players last time

YannT: sounds cool!


YannT: speaking of my first cg tshirt should arrive any day in the post now :)

Astrobytes: *euler warms up the IntelliJ IDEA Java->Kotlin converter*

eulerscheZahl: great

AntiSquid: what do you mean by that mark7 ? (i don't go on codeforces so no clue what you're on about)

mark7: they had 3 type of round division 1, 2, 3

eulerscheZahl: i have my tshirt chance next saturday. let's see how codejam goes

mark7: higher the number easier the problems

mark7: they now also introduces div 4

AntiSquid: ah ok

Kellthazar: I thought that A* was more fast eulerscheZahl, I will try BFS for sure...

mark7: A* don't give shortest path

eulerscheZahl: BFS gives you the distance from 1 node to all others, not just one to one

AntiSquid: why is everyone updating euler about their bots ? all day every day :D

eulerscheZahl: and A* is a heuristic search. you can't be sure to actually find the shortest path

eulerscheZahl: then i'll update you in return. got pushed to #3 :o

mark7: eulerscheZahl is a *GURU* haha

mark7: :joy:

YannT: I used floy warshall to precalc all distances from everywhere to everywhere round 1

YannT: works like a charm

Astrobytes: Uncle Euler the CG Oracle

eulerscheZahl: floyd warshall even has a worse time complexity for grids

eulerscheZahl: but if it's fast enough: sure, why not

YannT: I used it like cells are a graph tho

eulerscheZahl: great algo in terms of codesize

Doju: oh floyd-warshall has weights?

Doju: hmm i might need that

YannT: my complexity is O(N^3) but where N is number of walkable cells, no grid size

YannT: so it's not horrible

eulerscheZahl: and my BFS from each cell is O(n^2)

eulerscheZahl: 20ms on large maps

YannT: yeah mine's more like 100ms

BaconHairkid56: huh

YannT: but out of 1s it doesn't really matter

BaconHairkid56: .-.

eulerscheZahl: fast enough

AntiSquid: flexing the bfs

BaconHairkid56: :worried:

BaconHairkid56: :confused:

AntiSquid: bacon isn't supposed to have hair on it, shave it off before you fry it BaconHairkid56

ekym: lua is the superior language

Astrobytes: Bacon has hair on it when it's alive :(

Beerus: with the exact same conditions i dont get timeout on visual studio but i get timeout on codin ide

eulerscheZahl: 2222 in bronze

AntiSquid: might be vegan bacon Astrobytes

Beerus: how i am supposed to find the bug

Astrobytes: Fair point AntiSquid

AntiSquid: timer 0.00479578 my bfs

AntiSquid: i think that's 4 ms, i win

eulerscheZahl: single cell or whole map?

AntiSquid: every cell to every other cell distance calc via bfs

Doju: waait, you take the bfs all the way to the whole map?

Doju: i just stop it when i get a valid cell

eulerscheZahl: run full BFS from each cell

AntiSquid: it's first turn precalc Doju

eulerscheZahl: that gives the dist from each cell to each other

akshat: Someone please guide me on pathfinding, what should be the stop condition for BFS? If I calculate BFS scores to whole grid from each pac then all the pacs go to the same point, if I give it a limited depth then nothing works :(

eulerscheZahl: empty queue is a good exit condition

akshat: but that's when all the map is traversed

akshat: so all pac has a common target

AntiSquid: my code is unoptimized, i guess c++ is just faster

eulerscheZahl: definitely

eulerscheZahl: and my code isn't speed optimized either

eulerscheZahl: using OOP, not just arrays

Doju: def get_cell_neighbours(cell):

Doju: i reckon that'll work

AntiSquid: i do use objects, a lot

Doju: not clean by any means but at least cleaner than my original solution

PiterYeh: Beerus if your program takes 45ms per turn to execute on your intel i9 @5Ghz it might take 200ms to run on the overloaded cloud server that CG is using

Doju: Oh right i forgot the warp-around

eulerscheZahl: CG servers are fine now. they added more instances

eulerscheZahl: and there is a match queue anyways. so the performance isn't affected by other games

Quidome: Nice :)

eulerscheZahl: just how fast your submit finishes

Sopu: Is it normal to have a move action that shows up in the standard output but doesn t show up in the game summary?

dbf: yes, today it is great - submits are fast

eulerscheZahl: actually there are 2 queues. high priority for IDE games, low prio for submit

PiterYeh: but still, a server cpu is probably significantly slower that a high end cpu, su maybe he is having this kind of problem

PiterYeh: i wonder, how many instances does CG use? this looks like a lot of work

eulerscheZahl: i only know that they have 2.2GHz to 3GHz

eulerscheZahl: used to be the amazon cloud

[CG]Thibaud: Sopu, maybe your output is desynchornized from the game. Happens if you sned multiple lines of output during a turn. You read 1 turn only, but played x turns

eulerscheZahl: they wanted to move to Azure. not sure if they did it in the end

Default avatar.png JBM: time for some Haskell

akshat: How do you guys manage that your pacs don't collide to each other?

dbf: [CG]Thibaud, thanks for your hotfixes done yesterday, performance is good today

akshat: when you run BFS

Astrobytes: Ah too early for me JBM, I'll have to watch it later

BenjaminUrquhart: magic

MaxCol06: ?

[CG]Thibaud: :)

MaxCol06: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

AntiSquid: MaxCol06 please stop

MaxCol06: Ok

AntiSquid: you keep spamming, you summon the wrath of AutomatonNN

Doju: yeah [CG]Thibaud you werre really quick when anything happened

AutomatonNN: 50* 25 now

AntiSquid: see ? now you have to do math

Default avatar.png Kazamisa: Hi

Default avatar.png Kazamisa: I saw an achievement called puzzle of the week

[CG]Thibaud: we tried. Ideally, these issues wouldn't happen but well

llllllllll: in which order do pacs start 'looking around' ? N E S W ?

Default avatar.png Kazamisa: what is it looked in puzzles I didnt find anything called like that

[CG]Thibaud: it appears in your notifications Kazamisa (every week)

[CG]Thibaud: puzzle changes every week

Default avatar.png Kazamisa: aa thanks

jrke: hey any CG staff

jrke: here

eulerscheZahl: akshat there are several ways to avoid collision. some kind of random search is the easiest IMO

eulerscheZahl: you could also look into Kuhn-Munkres

eulerscheZahl: aka hungarian method

akshat: Okay, thank you @eulerscheZahl :D

[CG]Thibaud: well I wrote something 2 message above yours jrke :D

[CG]Thibaud: +s

jrke: :slight_smile:

eulerscheZahl: you might have left in the last 30s

jrke: but i can beat a player above my rank in local ide but still my rank doesn't goes above them

jrke: i am submitting again and again if any error but same thing

eulerscheZahl: then you perform worse against other players

jrke: ya to some players

Ken_Fool: is it normal that the codingame ide has no codecompletion?

Ken_Fool: i though i had it a couple of days before

Default avatar.png Over9000: Maybe you turned it off in settings (left sidebar)


BenjaminUrquhart: k looks like it's time to work on my bot

thethiny: 12 hours and you're here

thethiny: welcome @Benjamin

BenjaminUrquhart: :eyes:

thethiny: I just woke up

thethiny: it was a power sleep

Ken_Fool: #Over9000 thx for the typ i found the expert mode but nothing about completion mb i try another browser

Ken_Fool: *tip

Uljahn: they fixed it, so it's less agressive now i guess, ctrl+space to manually summon autocompletion

Ken_Fool: yeah i use ctrl+space but it never finds any functionnames and im lazy af

Ken_Fool: it is what it is

Ken_Fool: ^^

Uljahn: indeed

eulerscheZahl: i don't get any suggestions in code completion either. i'm using C#, might be different on other languages

Uljahn: py3 the same

thethiny: you only get code completion if it is in the scope of the window

Ken_Fool: c++ on my end, i did some codingbattles and it had pretty nice completion on stl

Ken_Fool: but that was last weekend or that before

Ken_Fool: #thethiny so never for anything global?

thethiny: window scope not function scope

Clagus: For C# guys: if anyone is interested how I solved copying multiple classes into single file to copy-paste into CondinGame web IDE:

thethiny: as in what you currently see on screen

Uljahn: ah, it works in specific cases

Ken_Fool: #thethiny ohh thats interesting

Ken_Fool: thx

Default avatar.png Over9000: Oh come on, almost got a draw out of it, and then I block myself:


thethiny: this explains how the IDE sees

Ken_Fool: hm mb, i should use some other ide then, but i love the idea of lighweight only using browser

thethiny: yeah same here but I don't wanna instal TWO apps

thethiny: Visual Code + 2 other apps

[CG]Thibaud: there is something off with this autocompletion. I'll tell the devs

thethiny: automaton2000 tell devs there's an issue

Automaton2000: does anyone know if you can

Ken_Fool: i love vscode for reading but i do not want to dev in it. when i add the c++ stuff it gets rly distracting to read

thethiny: extensions

Default avatar.png lxnn: Have I misunderstood something, or does SPEED not do anything?

thethiny: you misunderstood something

AntiSquid: yes

Uljahn: yes

Default avatar.png lxnn: Ah

thethiny: speed only works if your distance is > 1

Illedan: eulerscheZahl: Is that kill on frame 70 intentional? Or Are you going for those pellets?

Default avatar.png lxnn: Oh right, thanks

Ken_Fool: haha just running the code to fix my typos and accidently keep beating the boss lol

Ken_Fool: :D

thethiny: intentional cuz it says Trap

BetterThanJohannes: Why does it time out in c#

Default avatar.png Over9000: 98% battles done, and now nothing seems to happen any more :sad:

Default avatar.png Over9000: I mean :cry:

eulerscheZahl: Illedan not intentional yet, as i don't track invisible opponents

Illedan: aiit

thethiny: then how did you say trap?

Default avatar.png Over9000: Woo this latest submit pushed me 100+ ranks!

Illedan: you still wrecked me on this submit

eulerscheZahl: but i have some nice kills

eulerscheZahl: thethiny of course it was intentional in the end. but not planned for several turns

Ken_Fool: wait when my picture is the one highlighted i won?

Ken_Fool: :joy:

eulerscheZahl: that was the good kill, planned on frame 60, happened on 70

thethiny: isn't that a waste of 10 frames?

Default avatar.png DJBrutalShoe_53cc: rt

eulerscheZahl: it's a kill after all i think it's worth it

Default avatar.png DJBrutalShoe_53cc: bruh im tryna learn java programming but its so diff

thethiny: oh damn this is the best play I've ever seen in my life



Default avatar.png Over9000: Nice


PatrickMcGinnisII: So nothing would ever work, smh. I stupid

thethiny: Damn, eurlerscheZahl

Doju: my neighbouring cell finder finally works

Doju: Like the cleaner one

Doju: exceept that i think it should still be in the cell class

jrke: check this antisquid


AntiSquid: ?

AntiSquid: check what

eulerscheZahl: thethiny why don't i kill you at frame 56? debugging time

jrke: replay your pac

jrke: both pac same position from starting to beginning

jrke: sorry

jrke: starting to ending

kovi: hungary dominates the top

eulerscheZahl: :de:

AntiSquid: ya look at my bot's rank, kinda expected imo jrke :p

rewriting some stuff atm

jrke: look at my rank also:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

AntiSquid: ya ok bad rank :p

AntiSquid: i belarus, russia, germany, romania and then hungary though

AntiSquid: i see *

jrke: any suggestion what else can i do

aangairbender: guys earlier Ctrl+S didnt open save dialog, did it?

aangairbender: its so irritating

Illedan: agreed aangairbender

aangairbender: just a habit saving the code every 5 sec

Astrobytes: Same

Doju: same

Ken_Fool: is the battles thingy buggy for you guys too atm?

Ken_Fool: it is rly slow and when i want to get back to my code i get an red popup error message sending me to the contest start page

eulerscheZahl: jrke frame 14 eat the big pellet

jrke: K

eulerscheZahl: and around 80 you have a bad coordiation between 2 pacmen

dbdr: eulerscheZahl #3, gg!

dbdr: too late :D

eulerscheZahl: 4

jrke: yes euler thanks

dbdr: was true at the time

jrke: ranks as changing like flow of water

jrke: every refresh you got another rank

eulerscheZahl: in a small margin it's constant

Cappefra: my next step is going to be handling cooperation between friendly pacs

jrke: ya but in my stage its not constant

shashwat986: What sort of cooperation are you thinking off Cappefra ?

shashwat986: *of

aangairbender: marking next step of friendly pacs as an obstacle in the pathfinding should work well for the first time

Doju: aangairbender that's what i was about to do

Cappefra: @shashwat986 I'm not sure, for starters I just want my pacs to never be stuck with each other

Doju: Cappefra that's pretty easy

aangairbender: I have just realized I marked target cell not the next cell

Doju: just check if a pac has been in the same pos for two moves in a row

Doju: and then do something about it

Doju: So i was wondering just now

dbdr: kovi trouncing me 3-0 feels like OOC all over again :D

Doju: if you want to simulate moves

Doju: recursion seems like a smart strategy for that

Doju: but how do you simulate the enemy?

Doju: if you do the same simulation for the enemy, you just get into an infinite loop

aangairbender: these boys know something about mcts related stuff

aangairbender: I am in legend league in poker chip race with some kind of smitsimax

aangairbender: maybe smth like that will work here

llllllllll: still dont understand how the pacs decide which way to go if they have 2 paths with the same distance

jrke: will all league open on monday or only silver

aangairbender: only silver I guesss

aangairbender: as it was in ooc

jrke: i think silver and gold

Default avatar.png lxnn: Is there a way to display debugging messages on the game interface?

Doju: Argh why do my pacs think there are no pellets left when they haven't even explored all of the cells

jrke: input is given only of those pellets which have seen by your pacs

Doju: No i'm using a different method

jrke: so can't say anything

Doju: i'm assuming that there are pellets everywhere unless the pacs see that they aren't there

Clagus: 10 point pellets are always visible right? so they always appear in turn inputs until eaten?

Doju: yes

Snef: yes

jrke: yes

icecream17: so you know where opponent is if eaten

Clagus: wow, so much possibilities

Clagus: yeah I just realized that :D

Illedan: kovi, you have bugs :D

kovi: ?


Illedan: The last pac you lose just stops in the corner :P

Illedan: Oh, nvm. I had 1 more round of speed. Damn tooltip -.-

Illedan: But how do I have more speed than you :/

Illedan: Oh, you only move 1 dist with that last speed

kovi: interesting game for sure. both loss

Illedan: So yeah, bug :D

kovi: i wont call it bug...but weakness

Illedan: Moving 1 less step than you can, while being chased by a hungry Pac? That's a bug.

jrke: how you guys know that pellet is present at this point if there is no visible pellet

jrke: ?

thethiny: you know at the start

Doju: jrke i don't know

Doju: for sure

thethiny: then everytime you eat one you remove it

jrke: i had did but if enemy pac eaten one and enemy pac is invisible the

jrke: n

thethiny: you have to assume pellet is there until proven otherwise

Doju: thetiny to that you also need to add that every time you see a cell is empty you remove it

thethiny: yes correct

jrke: K means i am right

jrke: i did same thing

Doju: If you really want to get efficient with that strategy

Default avatar.png Over9000: Oh the symmetry:

Doju: you could try to guess which pellets the opponent's pacs have eaten

thethiny: BTW guys don't use euclediean distance use manhattan

Illedan: Use the real walking dist.

Doju: thetiny dont use manhattan use BFS

jrke: i know were using that only

thethiny: @Over9000 you fail to recognize warps

Default avatar.png Over9000: Warps?

thethiny: if you go from the side you come from the other side

Default avatar.png Over9000: Ah I know what you mean

Default avatar.png Over9000: No that's intentional, it doesn't see anything useful there because the other one ate it all

Doju: xD

Default avatar.png Over9000: I do recognize warps

thethiny: okay

Doju: fair enough, Over9000

jrke: is this in each map that if you go from the side you come from the other side

jrke: ?

thethiny: yes

Doju: not in every map

Doju: some maps are closed

Default avatar.png Over9000: Yes, if both sides have floor there

thethiny: oh not each map

jrke: then how can we came to know which map have and which haven't

thethiny: does anyone have the seed from Benjamin?

thethiny: I saved it in notepad but I forgot that you can't undo in it

Doju: jrke i'm not sure if you can do that with manhattan distance in a smart way

Doju: but it's pretty easy to integrate into bfs

thethiny: @ BenjaminUrquhart

BenjaminUrquhart: oh um

BenjaminUrquhart: which one

thethiny: the infinite loop

Default avatar.png pwahs: can someone tell me the maximum size of the map?

thethiny: Constraints 2 ≤ Number of pacs per player ≤ 5 29 ≤ width ≤ 35 10 ≤ height ≤ 17

Default avatar.png pwahs: I couldn't find it in the rules

RockyMullet: 29 ≤ width ≤ 35 10 ≤ height ≤ 17

BenjaminUrquhart: seed=-7826971533994987500

Default avatar.png pwahs: aah, thanks :)

BenjaminUrquhart: hold up I broke something in my submit

thethiny: Thanks ben

thethiny: yes I saw that

thethiny: you're rank #493 now

BenjaminUrquhart: cause I broke stuff

thethiny: @ Over9000 try the seed

Default avatar.png arnial: we can't access to the silver league yet ?

thethiny: nop

jrke: no it will open on monday

Default avatar.png james1729: Does anyone know if pacs can see across warps

Default avatar.png arnial: haaa ! try to improved my AI cause i thought it wasn't good enouth to rank up

thethiny: yes they can @james

Default avatar.png james1729: Thanks

thethiny: you should always try to improve your rank

thethiny: after all there are only 3 winners

thethiny: and 97 complimentary moral awards

Default avatar.png arnial: yes but we will have ne rules after that

icecream17: and a lot of gold awards too!

Default avatar.png pwahs: @arnial, no, rules are done

icecream17: and silver, and bronze, and wood

icecream17: everyone gets a prize

thethiny: The new rules, I doubt they exist, will continue from here

thethiny: @icecream17 I don't think wood get awards

Default avatar.png arnial: you think the rules are setlled ?

muy31: CG points!

thethiny: it said that the rules are settled

muy31: thats the prize

thethiny: in the video it says so

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Wow i started bullying my enemies and i went up 500 places

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Wtf

thethiny: hahaha

jrke: hey anybody knows how to get smallest value func in c++ min() isn't working

Scarfield: min will work for 2 intergers, are you trying it on an array?

Clagus: can a pac see through the "teleport" pass (through the edges of the map)?

Cappefra: Yeah Clagus I think so

RockyMullet: yes

Clagus: thx

KiwiTae: RockyMullet o/

MadKnight: hihi

KiwiTae: MadKnight u joined the contest?

BenjaminUrquhart: KiwiTae looks like it

BenjaminUrquhart: 1309th bronze in ruby

AntiSquid: hi kiwi

KiwiTae: ohoh o/ hey AntiSquid ~

AntiSquid: o/

KiwiTae: just submitted smth after blindly coding for a few hours >,<

Doju: I don't even know how it's possible to beat the top players

PiterYeh: I remember that in C++ you can use pragmas to enable a -O3 optimized build. Does anybody know if there is something similar for C#?

Doju: like they probably simulate every move

Illedan: Doju, you need to eat more pellets than them

KiwiTae: Illedan good call

Doju: Illedan oh riiight thanks

Doju: I have 400 damn lines of code and i'm #732... :/

Illedan: 755 lines

RockyMullet: hey KiwiTae !

BenjaminUrquhart: lines don't really mean anything other than complexity though

Doju: Although i have no RPS or enemy logic

Doju: or anything advanced really

eulerscheZahl: PiterYeh you don't need anything like that for C#. We get release mode in the arena since recently

eulerscheZahl: but only for C# and Rust

PiterYeh: oh alright, thanks

PiterYeh: i can evaluate like 30 nodes in 50ms. I guess i just suck :/

Kellthazar: Evaluate the distance?


PiterYeh: evaluate a game state and his neighbors (the next turn)

Doju: actually before i start doing anything i should just try to go for super pellets only

KobeL: how do speed turns work? are they not moving towards your target give in your output for that turn,

thethiny: they do 2 moves in 1 turn. Not 1 move for 2 turns.

KobeL: so do you need to provide a second output within that turn?

thethiny: no

thethiny: example:

KobeL: Ok that's what I was expecting, hmm

thethiny: you're at 0, 0 and you want to go to 0, 3

thethiny: if speed is on

thethiny: you become 0, 2

thethiny: if speed is off

thethiny: you become 0, 1

thethiny: it's still 1 turn

Uljahn: just specify a target 2 steps away

KobeL: Uljahn that's it, that's why some of my pacs weren't making their speed moves

icecream17: is this "flood" correct?


Illedan: Anyone have a seed with 5 pacs and a complex map?

Doju: Illedan are you pushing those simulation levels? :P

Illedan: I'm not simulating. (yet)

Uljahn: seed=4029809621905664000 but no teleports

Doju: wow

KobeL: how do you get the seed from a game?

BenjaminUrquhart: options tab

Illedan: Enable Expert mode under settings kovi

Illedan: *KobeL

thethiny: next to your name at the bottom

ZarthaxX: Illedan not searching?

KobeL: found it thx

Illedan: Search yeah, sim no.

KobeL: seed=7146388042811426800 relatively complex 5 pac

Kellthazar: My BFS algorithm took 379 ms to calc all distances... =/

ZarthaxX: whats the difference..

ZarthaxX: u mean u are not doing a depth search?

Illedan: :D

ZarthaxX: lol

BenjaminUrquhart: Kellthazar do it all on the first turn

BenjaminUrquhart: you get a full second there

Illedan: Thx for that seed KobeL. It has some features I need to test

KobeL: You're welcome Illedan!

Kellthazar: Yeah, I'm doing, still got timeout sometimes.

Doju: Wait, are these guys seriously doing 30 move deep simulations?

Doju: that's...

KobeL: lol who's doing that?

Doju: 8.5*10^26 different decisions

Doju: i think eulerscheZahl is doing that

eulerscheZahl: no, only 4 turns :D but i might step it up a bit tomorrow

Doju: oh lol

Doju: not sure how i got the number 30 in my head

Doju: ok thats not that bad

Doju: a few thousand

eulerscheZahl: my search is still flawed

YannT: you do the 9^10 order combinations per turn eulerscheZahl? Oo

Doju: isn't it 7,9?

eulerscheZahl: hell no :D

eulerscheZahl: check this:

eulerscheZahl: i only get 1 large pellet

eulerscheZahl: that's something to work on: get 2 at least

YannT: it's 9 possible decisions per pac per turn, and 10 pacs maximum (if doing opponent)

YannT: so 9^10

Doju: oh right the opponent

Aitorcius: how can the pacmans move all together? (without threads if possible)

Illedan: Only depth 4 euler? :P

eulerscheZahl: for now...

eulerscheZahl: i have ideas to get deeper

Illedan: Damn

Illedan: I'm at 22 xD

Doju: whaat

Waffle3z: what are you simulating?

Doju: that's a stupid amount of calculations

Doju: Illedan how

eulerscheZahl: beam search

Scarfield: haha nice avatar waffle :D

Illedan: Pruning.

eulerscheZahl: that's something to put into google ;)

Doju: Yeah i thought pruning would be a smart thing to do

YannT: just expanding a state for all the possible move combinations took too muych time when I tried it :p

BenjaminUrquhart: Aitorcius you can command multiple pacs using a bar-separated line of output

BenjaminUrquhart: "MOVE 0 1 1 | MOVE 1 2 2"

Aitorcius: ouh i forgot that, it is my first bot programming ty too much

Matjaz: Do you guys write all the code in the codingame editor or is there a good way to take the code our and run simulations?

KiwiTae: Matjaz the referee is on github

BenjaminUrquhart: I do it all in the editor

Hjax: i write my code in eclipse, and then paste it into the editor

Aitorcius: Visual Studio

PiterYeh: Matjaz

Matjaz: I mean, I know I can edit it elsewhere but is there a decent way to partially test or somehow simulate a good part of it without pasting in and running it?

zams: Theres a chrome plugin so you can save the code locally and it will upload it for you

Matjaz: I see, the link above I assume.

PiterYeh: The Java source code for the referee and somulation is open source, so you could run that locally


Matjaz: Thanks, I'll check it.

Ken_Fool: gosh im malding

Ken_Fool: i typed only '=' in all my new ifs and was wondering why my code doesnt work >.<

Ken_Fool: time for coffe xD

Marben: Does anybody else experience major issues with the Clojure language? Like lots of seemingly random "not provided 1 lines in time" messages?

Marben: Right now I try to send "MOVE 0 1 1" in a loop and it times out....

icecream17: check the standard error strean

Marben: The funny thing is there is nothing there

Marben: My code was running fine, but some battles are lost in 2 steps (with the timeouts) and if i send the parameters to the IDE those looses are not even reproducible

Dr-D: Maybe some kind of server failures. Sadly they happen during contests

icecream17: oh that's probably the overloaded server dont worry

AntiSquid: so annoying ... send to IDE lost game, suddenly it's a win :/

Dr-D: Uh, 4 more Dart-coders!

thethiny: @AntiSquid randomness?

AntiSquid: i know what it is, just wanted to complain

thethiny: XD

AntiSquid: Automaton2000 explain it to him

Automaton2000: i see the problem in my code

thethiny: Can the seed be consistent?

thethiny: somehow

icecream17: OPTIONS -> manual

AntiSquid: what do you mean?

AntiSquid: play on same seed?

thethiny: if my code has random()

thethiny: it will not generate the same number every run

icecream17: no

AntiSquid: yes you can set random seed

icecream17: of course not

AntiSquid: which language are you using?

icecream17: wait

thethiny: can we make the game server FORCE a seed?

icecream17: no

thethiny: that's what I mean

BenjaminUrquhart: here's a question

AntiSquid: for your game or for your bot's use of random

icecream17: the game does the seed andf the sends inputs to you

BenjaminUrquhart: can we write files to our running directory

thethiny: Squid, what I mean is that don't allow users to have random seed, instead make it always give the same random

thethiny: @Benjamin do ls with permissions and see if you have write

AntiSquid: that's optional thethiny

BenjaminUrquhart: the easiest solution is to not random

AntiSquid: you can't force it on others though

thethiny: yeah that's true

icecream17: do 3895394357315987 * turn mod something so that it's basically random

icecream17: make your own random function that's actually pretty random but consistent

thethiny: that's smart

thethiny: I will do that

AntiSquid: btw it's this kind of squid

AntiSquid: details:


BenjaminUrquhart: so yes, we have permissions to write within our folder

Clagus: moving fast isn't actually moving faster per turn, it's freezing non-fast pacs for 1 turn... right?

BenjaminUrquhart: kind of

Doju: not really

Clagus: but you can't get control of your pac in the second turn of movement

Doju: yes

Aitorcius: how can i avoid collisions? i mean change the direction if the pacmans collied

thethiny: if current_pos = last_pos

Clagus: you can check if they stay in the previous position

Aitorcius: ok

Kellthazar: remember to skip this check if you activate SPEED in the last turn :)

Clagus: and then it's still tricky cause you have to know where are other pacs

Clagus: and that :D

thethiny: uhmm guys what's the best way to get the ms elapsed?

Doju: which language?

Clagus: in what language?

BenjaminUrquhart: get time after receiving input and get he new time after output

BenjaminUrquhart: the*

BenjaminUrquhart: difference of the 2 is the time

thethiny: python currently

thethiny: int((time() - start_time) * 1000)%1000

Schneewittchen: time.time()

thethiny: I feel like this is wrong

thethiny: because I'm getting 80ms

Doju: not sure if it's the best but what i currently do is

BenjaminUrquhart: when do you start it?

Doju: import time

thethiny: I start it after While True:

Doju: t = time.process_time()

Doju: after giving command to a pac

BenjaminUrquhart: do it after you receive the first line of input

Doju: i do elapsed_time =( time.process_time() - t) * 1000

thethiny: oh damn

Doju: how did that

Doju: lol

thethiny: what Benjamin said works wonders

Doju: elapsed time = time.proce

thethiny: now it's 3ms

Doju: why did i get a sad face

thethiny: cuz you wrote : (

Doju: i dont think i did

Doju: oh wait yes i did

thethiny: you used brackets

Doju: nvm

thethiny: anyways thanks all for the help!

AntiSquid: why % 1000 thethiny ??

thethiny: cuz time in milliseconds

Doju: that's modulo

Doju: oh you dont use the starting time?

thethiny: yeah but I think I don't need it since int() already does that

thethiny: good point AntiSquid

kovi: grat illedan

Matjaz: Should I be parsing the map and constructing the graph out of it? Or am I going the wrong direction?

Kellthazar: Yes! Ny pre distances calcs now runs at 40ms.

Kellthazar: My*

Zenoscave: Matjaz that is a good idea to do

Matjaz: And should each space be a node or just intersections?

Illedan: :D

Matjaz: I'm not sure how to decide about that.

Kellthazar: Matjaz that was the strategy I adopted...

Zenoscave: depends on your usage

Zenoscave: YMMV

Matjaz: Alright, I guess I should just give it a go.

Kellthazar: I build a graph composed only by the floors (I skip all the walls).

anid: well done illedan

Kellthazar: 79 - 126 (versus Illedan).

Kellthazar: Oh well

Doju: i got 86 - 121 vs Illedan

Marben: im so confused, ive changed nothing but my time measurment and suddenly im climbing 100+ ranks

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: I got 54-145. Still some improvements to be made

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Marben people learn and get better than you

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: And if you resubmit your rank is recaculated.

Marben: Thiesjoo of course they do but thats not my point

my point is about the not reproducible timeouts im getting :(

BenjaminUrquhart: 130-130 vs Kellthazar

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Oh ok. That's weird. I have not gotten that issue myself.

BenjaminUrquhart: Illedan calm down there

Kellthazar: BenjaminUrquhart, the MSG command is working?

BenjaminUrquhart: you just append text after a command

BenjaminUrquhart: MOVE 0 1 1 message

Kellthazar: Oh, nice! :)

Kellthazar: Thanks

Schneewittchen: Is there a good way to check for dead enemy?

eulerscheZahl: no

Schneewittchen: Well then..

BenjaminUrquhart: I go by "if I can't see it, it doesn't exist"

Schneewittchen: No predictions?

eulerscheZahl: others go by "i can see it, it doesn't exist"

BenjaminUrquhart: not yet

Mystical: What is clash of code?

AntiSquid: something you should stay away from

AntiSquid: play the contest


RockyMullet: I agree with my non squidy friend

Kellthazar: 101 - 126 After some movement rules improvement.

eulerscheZahl: clash of code: short puzzles which you solve in limited time (15min maximum) you play against other users who get the same puzzle at the same time. if there are no other active users, you play against bots who replay the solution of earlier real contestants

AntiSquid: euler enjoys it btw so invite him Mystical

eulerscheZahl: i broke my bot :(

Zenoscave: That's what my description says after all

Zenoscave: invite euler

Schneewittchen: Just happy little mistakes

RockyMullet: bob ross makes me happy

Schneewittchen: *flap flap flap*

Schneewittchen: Cleans the brush

RockyMullet: shake de devil out of it !

njaber: Schneewittchen Dead enemy must have been killed by your pac, so theoricaly you should have seen it, but the problem is you intercept them at corners or something... The enemy dies before you know he was here

RockyMullet: njaber thats annnoying

RockyMullet: hard to tell that an enemy is dead and not just out of sight

Schneewittchen: Jea he could have evaporated behind a corner

njaber: Actually maybe they thought of it and decided to log it to you anyways, I haven't tested it, I just deduced that from the rule

RockyMullet: I'm about to start a "possible enemy positions" just like OOC for those kind of problemes

njaber: Yeah I'm doing the same

AntiSquid: how will you handle missing enemies?

Schneewittchen: Particle fiters gurlz

AntiSquid: maybe they are stuck in a corner

RockyMullet: well you can assume start position is a mirror of yours

AntiSquid: later in the game i mean

njaber: If you do your algorithm well enough you should be able to have it deduce that the enemy must be dead

Zenoscave: Filter positions on MOVE!!!!!

Waffle3z: resubmitted and dropped to last place after timing out every game in a row. I don't time out at all in the IDE

RockyMullet: well just like OOC, you know where they could move, so every position moves

RockyMullet: when you see them, then you reset everything

Schneewittchen: Just do a spreading every move

wlesavo: RockyMullet im doing the same, but silence every turn seems op

RockyMullet: yeah you dont have all the same info than in OOC of course

wlesavo: and its silence for 0, 1 and 2 also

njaber: Jsut doing spreading doesn't allow you to deduce enemy position from taken pellets I think

RockyMullet: but at least in this one you can see the pacs :P

Zenoscave: plus up to 5 pacs

Doju: Do you guys have something like a "Universe" class that has everything else in it?

RockyMullet: njaber yeah most of the time you wont know actly where there are, but its worth it for the times you do

Doju: i'm not sure if i should shove everything in a class

AntiSquid: yes

Waffle3z: are you programming in java?

AntiSquid: do it

Doju: python

AntiSquid: i mean why not

Waffle3z: then you don't need a class

AntiSquid: just throw everything in

Csipcsirip: yes, I too tried to implement a tracker like in OOC. but the branching is so huge it timeouts after few turns

Doju: I feel like it might be handy later so alright why not

wlesavo: Csipcsirip keep only positions

AntiSquid: it will be messy lol

Doju: to throw everything in a class?

AntiSquid: well ofc

Doju: isn't it messier to keep everything everywhere

njaber: I think I'll do some kind of spreading+keeping in memory known pieces of info that could help eliminate possibilities if I get other possibilities

njaber: other info*

AntiSquid: idk i don't keep my tv and microwave in the bathroom just because i have my toilet in there Doju

njaber: But you keep everything in your house

AntiSquid: you keep everything in your bot

njaber: He's just asking if having a special scope is worth anything

njaber: a limiting scope

njaber: I do, just in case I want to name something a name that exists natively for some reason

BenjaminUrquhart: can't hurt

Doju: OK im gonna do it and cry myself to sleep later when i'm too deep into it and realize that it's a bad idea

k4ng0u: is there a way to debug games and using breakpoints? (for now I am mainly using standard errors or faking inputs but it's really inneficient)

njaber: Grab the code from github and set it up so you can run games locally

wlesavo: damn, removing a "feature" you thought was important sometimes gives outstanding results

Hjax: @wlesavoits always fun when you fix a bug and your bot is worse after

Hjax: oops wrong ping

Hjax: @wlesavo

wlesavo: also that, yes

yassineH: guys how am i supposed to use this

BenjaminUrquhart: study material

BenjaminUrquhart: Hjax same

yassineH: i mean i have eclipse and i dont know what to run

eulerscheZahl: do you have maven?

yassineH: yes

eulerscheZahl: import the github project as a maven project

yassineH: i did and it build successful

eulerscheZahl: then run the main class in the test folder

yassineH: ah okay

yassineH: thx

eulerscheZahl: you might want to edit it to use your own bots

eulerscheZahl: there are commented lines that you have to uncomment and adjust

yassineH: okay i will keep you updated..

yassineH: thx

AntiSquid: nice euler, got another fan who gives him bot updates :D

Doju: Wait hold on, i'm freezing real good atm

Doju: so i have my universe class that holds a list of pacs and the grid

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

Doju: how do i get data from the grid to the pacs

Doju: without passing it in as a variable

Doju: to the pac instances

BenjaminUrquhart: you pass it in as a variable

BenjaminUrquhart: :eyes:

Doju: :(

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Global variables?

Doju: that seems wasteful

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Maybe pass a map instance

AntiSquid: uhm you access the variable ? it's in the same universe no?

icecream17: closure

BenjaminUrquhart: I do all my pac processing in my "Game" class which is basically the universe class

BenjaminUrquhart: public Command getCommandFor(Pacman pac) {...}

Doju: earlier i had the grid stored as a class variable in the pac class

Doju: also if i pass them the grid as a variable

jrke: How we came to know what can our pac see

Doju: then they all have their own grids and can't get the same data from one grid, no?

Doju: I haven't taken any formal programming courses as you can probably see :D

Grrec: I bet there is no difference to a professional programmer :P

AntiSquid: there's the degree

AntiSquid: not everyone has that piece of paper

Quidome: can you see the pellets behind an enemy pac?

Doju: meh i'll just try passing the grid as a variable and see if it works, i guess

BenjaminUrquhart: Quidome yes

Quidome: thnxs

Doju: actually i don't even have to change the code at all since i've been calling self.grid instead of Pac.grid. How convenient

geppoz: lol there is a problem in speed move mode command

Doju: Also why shouldn't you index the pacs by their id?

eulerscheZahl: what problem geppoz? that it affects the number of turns until the game ends?

geppoz: you cannot give order to go down and up again in the next double- move

eulerscheZahl: oh right

eulerscheZahl: that annoyed me too

geppoz: if you need to go into a dead end and back

geppoz: how can you give this command?

Doju: or store them in a dict by their id

eulerscheZahl: you can't, just waste 1 move

geppoz: weird

AntiSquid: it would be too complex obviously /s

Csipcsirip: yeah its very annoying. have to put a ot of extra variables and ifs in the code

eulerscheZahl: because everything has to be noob-friendly

geppoz: :D

AntiSquid: how is this noob friendly? lol

eulerscheZahl: only 1 target point

eulerscheZahl: ooh, screenshot time!

AntiSquid: that autopathing is more of a hindrance

AntiSquid: i calculated perfect path, sent the goal as output only to get the shitty pathing from the ref :/ spent a good chunck of time yesterday trying to debug something that wasn't my faulyt

geppoz: after I calc my path, i had to draw back since the base+2 move

baDcoder: Hello, is it possible to run my bot against any other opponents lets say someone from my company ?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

jrke: yes

geppoz: but this fails in the case i said before

eulerscheZahl: yes, remove the default opponent

eulerscheZahl: but you can only select players in the top1000

Doju: baDcoder yup, you need to enable the advanced mode from the settings in the sidebar

Doju: i think

Doju: then delete the default ai

baDcoder: Thanks everyone, will try

AntiSquid: no problem, glad to help

eulerscheZahl: thank you so much AntiSquid :D

IAmNoob: can anyone help me with a little easy code which i dont know why it dont functions because it is very easy?

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl did u do topcoder

eulerscheZahl: what part of it?

cegprakash: SRM

AntiSquid: iamanoob you could watch streams for the contest:

IAmNoob: ok thx

cegprakash: there was a contest just ended

eulerscheZahl: no, i only occasionally do marathons

eulerscheZahl: codejam is enough for me with the short format

eulerscheZahl: competing at codechef this time

eulerscheZahl: dropped to 25 because of CG contest :(

AntiSquid: here are more streams if you are interested iamanoob

IAmNoob: thx a lot

AntiSquid: no need

Doju: oooohh i finally figured out a thing hahah

Doju: i should be storing my different moving functions in a dictionary

AntiSquid: or you could have callback functions !!

Doju: oh those are a thing thanks AntiSquid

shashwat986: AntiSquid do you use JS?

AntiSquid: /s ? :/

shashwat986: nope :D

NSzx: Hey everyone, I have a quick question: in terms of scoring in the leaderboard, does a win with a huge gap have the same impact as a close win or are points in the battle taken into account? :)

AntiSquid: i do sometimes shashwat986

shashwat986: Just curious, because I don't really ahve the context of your discussion with Doju, and I only know JS as having callbacks

shashwat986: so I was curious how promises etc would work in a contest like this, and if they'd be useful

AntiSquid: i think you got it wrong

PiterYeh: shashwat986 there is no reason to use promises in this context, because everything is and must be syncronous

AntiSquid: i mean you got the callback function part wrong shashwat986

Default avatar.png Over9000: test test

AntiSquid: because it's not JS specific

AntiSquid: Over9000 it didn't work

AntiSquid: it's not exclusive to JS ...

Aitorcius: wow NullReferenceException on my order line... What hapened?

Doju: Is there any reason to give my pac instances ids if i'm storing them in a dict with ids as keys?

RockyMullet: you accessed a null reference

PiterYeh: Doju storing the id is pretty much free, so...

Doju: PiterYeh well yeah, that's true

Zenoscave: Illedan

Zenoscave: You here?

Doju: Feels like such a waste to restructure everything

Doju: although my code is way more readable now

AntiSquid: at least you have your own universe now ?

Doju: and yes, i have my own universe

Default avatar.png Lasamat: So I'm new to this site and in bronze league. Can I see the threshold for silver anywhere?

BenjaminUrquhart: there is none yet

Doju: There is no silver

BenjaminUrquhart: that comes monday

shashwat986: 5/11/20. What timezone? Does anyone know that in hours, say?

Default avatar.png Lasamat: Ah I see so as a beginner rank 1,200 ish is not so bad I guess. Thanks for telling me

AntiSquid: 5pm UK time

shashwat986: thanks

BenjaminUrquhart: oh hey I beat mazel once

AntiSquid: but akara chudra is first

BenjaminUrquhart: and?

eulerscheZahl: so it's not impressive

BenjaminUrquhart: whoops I accidentally resubmitted

BenjaminUrquhart: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Doju: do you have a macro for that ascii art

RockyMullet: I beat euler twice :D

Default avatar.png Over9000: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

BenjaminUrquhart: `/flip`

AntiSquid: you need to aim for the #1 headband

Doju: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Doju: thats amazing

AntiSquid: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

AntiSquid: /flip

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl

Default avatar.png Over9000: That's a lot of /flip

**anid slaps colliding pacs around a bit with a large fishbot

shashwat986: So, I took a good amount of time to ensure I'm moving two steps in Speed mode. Now I need to sit and undo that, because i'm overshooting the best possible spot XD

icecream17: Ugh, my "superlongpath" was superlongpath [ '15 4', '14 4', '16 4', '15 3', '15 5' ]

BenjaminUrquhart: that doesn't look very super

Default avatar.png o_imej: guys any idea for 2 pac collision ? what can i do in this case, back 1 step ?

Default avatar.png BoBot: EAT THE OTHER ONE!

Default avatar.png BoBot: sry

Default avatar.png o_imej: they're both mine

Default avatar.png BoBot: I actually have not implemented that myself :D

AntiSquid: no it's ok, the caps lock were necessary to show enthusiasm

Durkin: did the exact same thing, shash, massive feelsbad

Default avatar.png BoBot: Pac on Pac violence

solaimanope: how to handle more than one files for java?

Default avatar.png BoBot: I think if you memorize your position, and you are in the same position 2 times in a row, you should switch to doing something else

solaimanope: what should be the class name that contains main?

Clagus: Player? at least that's default name


Default avatar.png CRVII: Hi, any ideas about how I can circumvent 0 pellets (timed out) loses?

Aitorcius: it makes me a NullReferenceException idk

MadKnight: then don't reference a null Aitorcius

BenjaminUrquhart: is pacmans initialized?

AntiSquid: that depends on your code CRVII

Scarfield: you need to figure out why you are timing out CRVII, could be many reasons

Aitorcius: yes

Aitorcius: PacMan[] pacmans = new PacMan[visiblePacCount];

Default avatar.png CRVII: hmm, it's random. Makes it fun to figure out haha. Cheers ill give it another lookie

Zenoscave: I think I fixed something

Zenoscave: ...

Doju: I'm only now making a separate function for getting input

Doju: i should've done this a looooong time ago

RockyMullet: you pewpewed that bug

Zenoscave: pewpewpew

Aitorcius: Any advice for "has not provided 1 lines in time":frowning:

Doju: Aitorcius either you have a bug or you code is reeaaally slow

BenjaminUrquhart: pewpewpew

Default avatar.png Over9000: Check Standard Error Aitorcius

Doju: bug is more likely if you're not doing anything advanced

Zenoscave: Make sure you print a \n also.

Default avatar.png Over9000: If there's nothing in Standard Error your code is too slow

Jesus_inn_party: it means your program did not give output

Scarfield: what league Aitorcius?

Aitorcius: Wood 1:joy:

Doju: Okay it's probably a bug :P

Jesus_inn_party: or an unstopable loop

Doju: isn't that a bug?

Zenoscave: ^this

BenjaminUrquhart: Zenoscave you didn't fix it enough

Aitorcius: ok, 517 lines of code :joy:

Doju: wow

BenjaminUrquhart: stop flexing lines of code

BenjaminUrquhart: smh

Doju: how did you...

Doju: ok i wont ask questions :d

BenjaminUrquhart: ?

RockyMullet: lines of code means nothing

Doju: well it means that you've written a ton

Zenoscave: BenjaminUrquhart how do you choose where to explore

Aitorcius: im beginner on programming no problem

Zenoscave: That's the worst part of my bot i think

BenjaminUrquhart: Zenoscave I assume every empty space has a pellet unless proven otherwise

Scarfield: have your code worked with more pacs? Often you will get bugs when going up a league due to the new rules

BenjaminUrquhart: that's about it

Zenoscave: and BFS?

BenjaminUrquhart: just a bfs yeah

Zenoscave: ok

Doju: what

Doju: i'm doing the same thing but im rank 567

Doju: Do you have some fancy RPS logic?

Zenoscave: There's no such thing

Jesus_inn_party: my previous bot on wood 3 cloud beat the bot at bronze

Zenoscave: see. Axelrod

BenjaminUrquhart: there's no such thing as logic when it comes to rps

BenjaminUrquhart: you just get lucky

Doju: what i really meant was fancy combat logic

Doju: like what euler has

Doju: the trapping thing

shashwat986: wow

shashwat986: i can't even see in the speed step?

BenjaminUrquhart: no

Doju: oh really?

Doju: well that sucks

Doju: a lot

shashwat986: :( makes it harder to debug, because here i'm wondering why my pac didn't see those dots

wlesavo: yeah, thats annoying

Zenoscave: BenjaminUrquhart how doyou keep from going back over bad spots?

BenjaminUrquhart: define bad spots

Scarfield: does anyone know if there will be changes to the referee? it seems from chat that there are a few issues that could be imporved

Zenoscave: one sec lemme find a replay

Scarfield: spots that are not good :p

Scarfield: im here all week

Zenoscave: I mean spots that are 1 dist away but your speed is two so you skip them

BenjaminUrquhart: I kind of don't

BenjaminUrquhart: I do hackery after the search to change my destination if I'm speeding and the dest is 1 away

Zenoscave: Ok I'll try that

Jesus_inn_party: the most annoying thing is when your pacs are blocking each other and dont stop ighting for he spot

Jesus_inn_party: *fighting

BenjaminUrquhart: that was a fun problem to think about

GetSchwifty: anyone has a seed with 1 pac each?

wlesavo: why would you ever do that

Scarfield: 2 ≤ Number of pacs per player ≤ 5

wlesavo: oh

GetSchwifty: ow

wlesavo: ive read wrong

wlesavo: nwm

Ken_Fool: woot, i run it once finished 4th afked for 2 hours am back and next league?

BenjaminUrquhart: public static int MIN_PACS_PER_PLAYER = 2;

   public static int MAX_PACS_PER_PLAYER = 5;

Jesus_inn_party: what would you think will be added to the rules when the next league is free to go

Hjax: nothing, these are the final rules

BenjaminUrquhart: no more new rules after bronze

Jesus_inn_party: then what would make it more difficult as it is right now

BenjaminUrquhart: peopel

Hjax: people making better bots?

Doju: BenjaminUrquhart so do you just BFS to the closest (even if in superposition between existing an not existing) pellet?

BenjaminUrquhart: Doju well yes but actually no

BenjaminUrquhart: :eyes:

Doju: :D

Doju: I see

Jesus_inn_party: that is a wise answer

GetSchwifty: ow, so speed is in it's final stage? I can't seem to use it correctly

Doju: Indeed it was a wise answer

F0lio: .

BenjaminUrquhart: .

F0lio: ..

BenjaminUrquhart: !

BenjaminUrquhart: hi

Doju: Oh i just got a very good idea

Jesus_inn_party: maybe from the next league the amount of pacs you are having is not limited

Doju: and i think it might be similar to what you're doing

BenjaminUrquhart: it's capped at 5 for sure

Doju: Although pretty much everything that i'm planning atm is just an excuse not to do simulation

Jesus_inn_party: how many lines is everyones program having

BenjaminUrquhart: doesn't matter

GetSchwifty: I'll add some returns

Doju: I'm at 480 but 100 of those are gonna be gone in 5 minutes

Zenoscave: 1 line

Aitorcius: i removed bad code, aprox 40% of the total and it hasnt provided 1 lines in time wowowow

BenjaminUrquhart: no lines

Zenoscave: -5 liens

BenjaminUrquhart: reverse debt

Zenoscave: Exactly

shashwat986: I'm at 570 lines

shashwat986: but a good chunk of that is comments

shashwat986: because, you know, must have comments

Jesus_inn_party: what are you writing with isnt that a little too much

Zenoscave: Jesus_inn_party lines don't matter

shashwat986: It's ruby :D so it would be much more in a verbose language like java

Zenoscave: It's a horrible way to measure code

Aitorcius: how do you write the ordes? in a single line or in parts

icecream17: i win again. 590

Doju: Oh that's a problem haha

Doju: you need them to be in a single line

Zenoscave: icecream see above comments

Doju: separated with |

Aitorcius: it doesnt works :neutral_face:

BenjaminUrquhart: icecream17 what did you win

GetSchwifty: shashwat986

Doju: Aitorcius what language?

Jesus_inn_party: there is a standard output in the output discription

Aitorcius: c#

Doju: ok i have no idea how to do anything with that

shashwat986: thanks GetSchwifty !!

Jesus_inn_party: i do

shashwat986: I have NO idea what happened here

Aitorcius: like Java, you know?

Jesus_inn_party: i know with c#

Doju: well anyways the output has to be like this

Doju: MOVE 0 5 7 | MOVE 1 16 10

Aitorcius: Jesus tell me

Jesus_inn_party: you will have to make a for loop and

Jesus_inn_party: insert letters one by one to a string

Aitorcius: yea but i write this order with 5 pacs idk

Aitorcius: ok

Aitorcius: ill try

Doju: I'll tell you how i'm handling the output in python if it helps

Doju: i have a list of strings with the commands

Aitorcius: yea of course

Doju: then i do " | ".join(list_of_commands)

Aitorcius: ok

Jesus_inn_party: i am not sure if there is a join method in c#

Default avatar.png Over9000: You can have an extra | at the end

PiterYeh: Jesus_inn_party there is String.Join

Aitorcius: yea there is

Jesus_inn_party: are you sure ?

Default avatar.png Over9000: So you can just loop and print COMMAND+"|" for each pac

Zenoscave: String.Join(" | ", IENumerable)

Default avatar.png Over9000: And then a newline

eulerscheZahl: Zenoscave will you use C# regularly now?

Zenoscave: Most likely

Zenoscave: I've known it for years. just was stuck in a rut wanting to do a lot of python learning

Jesus_inn_party: i know both and python is a little easier to undrestand

Doju: Which code is cleaner?


shashwat986: 1

Zenoscave: 1

eulerscheZahl: pac.command("closest") what are you doing?!

BenjaminUrquhart: 1

ShannonNorris97: I'm having to learn Python to teach my students next year, having primarily coded in C# previously. I have to say I find Python much cleaner and more enjoyable to code in

shashwat986: he's seducing the pac, obviously

Zenoscave: Honestly that should be separated into a different method for each command

Doju: euler i learned about callback functions an hour ago

anid: 1 may be easier to understand, but it is easier to modify and debuf #2

shashwat986: telling it to come closest

eulerscheZahl: if pac.mine == True: if pac.mine:

Doju: oh right, true

BenjaminUrquhart: chat scroll broken this is a message

Zenoscave: what does "closest" command do?

BenjaminUrquhart: anid not really

shashwat986: commands.append(pac.command("closest"))

BenjaminUrquhart: so what's pac.command

Doju: pac.command is a function in the pac class

eulerscheZahl: and why does it get a string?

Doju: which is horribly written

Doju: but anyways it gets the closest pellet using BFS

shashwat986: i'm guessing it runs a method called closest. he's metaprogramming

Doju: a method in the pac class*


eulerscheZahl: so you parse the string argument in that function to decide what to do?

Doju: yup, it's definitely not smart

Zenoscave: they should each be a separate function

Doju: well, the command method also has a few other bits

Jesus_inn_party: how are you finding the losest pellet?

Zenoscave: so you could have def Closest(args needed only for closest):

and call


Zenoscave: Does command do the outputing of the command?

Zenoscave: Jesus_inn_party bfs

Doju: command returns a string with the command

Zenoscave: Breadth first search

PiterYeh: mmm how do i set the icon of my company?

Zenoscave: ShannonNorris97 what level of education will you teach?

BenjaminUrquhart: magi

BenjaminUrquhart: c

ShannonNorris97: Zenoscave I live in England, teaching first year college students. (16/17 yo)

Zenoscave: I teach a Software Methods and tools class in it.

Zenoscave: CS 1 at my uni used a wonderfl book for python

RockyMullet: hum, my possible enemy pos jsut have too many possibilities, not sure I can do anything with that

Doju: So if i have multiple different methods for calculating the next move

anid: How much do u expect that they will take into silver?

eulerscheZahl: ShannonNorris97 sounds similar to what MSmits is doing. He teaches physics and recently started with comp sci too

Doju: how should I do it?

Doju: callback functions?

ShannonNorris97: Oh nice, what book would that be please? I don't really have any materials for teaching it as of yet. Would be nice to have a book to recommend

BenjaminUrquhart: anid I'm assuming around 50%

Doju: Oh its cool to see teachers here btw

anid: thanks @BenjaminUrquhart

Jesus_inn_party: wait if there is no new rules in tthe next league the same bot will be playin so what will make you worthy to go to the league after

ShannonNorris97: Oh that's cool eulerscheZahl, I don't believe I've met them

Zenoscave: ShannonNorris97 I sent you a PM

ShannonNorris97: ty

BenjaminUrquhart: Jesus_inn_party being better than other people

BenjaminUrquhart: that is the competition after all

anid: Also jesus_inn_party, when the level increases, some strategies work better

Jesus_inn_party: yes but thre must be a standard level of skill for you to go o the next league or else every time the first five(for example)will go to the next league and then when the last one could make it to the silver league thre is no one in bronze and wood?!

Jesus_inn_party: there must be new rule that we dont know yet

Edrevan: jesus its the boss

Edrevan: the boss changes

pivek303: what a wonderful contest !!! :grinning:

Jesus_inn_party: maybe talking about it right now wont help

Jesus_inn_party: will see what happens

Edrevan: its simple.

icecream17: Beat bronze boss

icecream17: = silver

Edrevan: the bosses will get better, and thats the cutoff

icecream17: The bronze boss =

icecream17: player

Durkin: ? It's just beating more people than the boss beats as a ratio of total battles. Dont have to beat the boss, just more people than the boss beats

BetterThanJohannes: Does anyone know why the int visiblePelletCount is different everytime ? sometimes its low and sometimes its high, sometimes it does not return anything at all

zams: When is silver getting unlocked?

BenjaminUrquhart: monday

Default avatar.png Over9000: 5/13

BenjaminUrquhart: 11th

Edrevan: monday night

Edrevan: click on the league icon on top

Quidome: @BetterThanJohannes you are in bronze?

Default avatar.png Over9000: Wait it says Wednesday now

BetterThanJohannes: Yes

BenjaminUrquhart: yall bad

Quidome: OK, you see only pellets in line o sight

BenjaminUrquhart: and yes, I refreshed

BetterThanJohannes: OOoooooh

BetterThanJohannes: i see, thank you

Csipcsirip: brilliantCoder212 nice nickname :D

icecream17: =O my bot is better?

icecream17: just by "speed" if opponent speed, even very buggy, wins 9/10

BenjaminUrquhart: speed is the meta right now

icecream17: But the thing is, everyone does this:

icecream17: Rock sees Paper

icecream17: Rock turns Into Scissors while Paper does nothing

icecream17: But if I do

icecream17: Rock turns into Scissors while Paper turns into Rock

icecream17: will I have a higher ranking?

Zenoscave: No

Zenoscave: RPS has no nash equilibrium

Zenoscave: is my intuition

icecream17: But what if I detect my opponent always does this

BenjaminUrquhart: basically, any wins you get based solely on you rps playing is purely out of luck

Clagus: but they you will loose vs guys that play safe and turn into what they see :D

Clagus: *then

Zenoscave: Basically any RPS strategy is just as effective as any other strategy globally

Default avatar.png md37: shit

Zenoscave: No matter how fancy. Random choice performs just as well also

BenjaminUrquhart: md37 what broke

Zenoscave: Sure you might win more at some strats than others but other strats win more against you. Much like RPS has all moves beaten by other moves. RPS Metas all are beaten equally likely by other RPS metas

Zenoscave: That being said. Because the timing of when you can switch is not always at the same time, There's some give to this.

AntiSquid: Automaton2000 what's your favorite pac race? rock paper or scissors?

Automaton2000: but it takes a few minutes ago

RockyMullet: submit looking good :O no defeat in 17 games

Doju: Hitting play for the first time after major restructuring

AntiSquid: :o

Zenoscave: Nice RockyMullet

RockyMullet: jinxed myself

Doju: fingers crossed

RockyMullet: lost 19th

Zenoscave: It always happens

AntiSquid: gg

AntiSquid: well rekt

Doju: and RockyMullet, wow

RockyMullet: I found ONE use to my possible enemy position lol

RockyMullet: I doubt it will make a big change but hey

AntiSquid: +1 rank

RockyMullet: I need to find a way to discriminate more positions without destroy my perf

Doju: oooh no

Doju: this is not the bug that i wanted

Doju: i've messed up my inputs

Cxyda: hi there, did i overlook a rule or why the game summary sometimes says : "Only pacs with the SPEED ability enabled can move"

Doju: The speed thing basically works so that if it's enabled, you move twice in a row

Doju: and pacs that dont have it dont

Doju: but you can't control the second move yourself really

BenjaminUrquhart: but you have to target a space 2 away

Clagus: i submitted 3h ago, and for some reason I'm keep getting higher in ranking :D currently 443 :P

Clagus: I'm afraid of resubmitting

hviko: :D

Cxyda: i still don't get why my pacs then stop moving

Clagus: but I guess I can always revert :P

Doju: Any ideas on how to debug getting the inputs?

BenjaminUrquhart: print them

Doju: I think i have them in the correct order but it doesn't work

AntiSquid: lol .

Clagus: @Cxyda if your target is 1 field away, it will not move extra move

BenjaminUrquhart: meanwhile, my ranking is going down

NapTown: you have to give it a move >= 2 if you have speed, because it doesn't ask for output on the speed round

Cxyda: my pacs did not enable SPEED, but all of my opponents did, and then my pacs stop moving every second frame

BenjaminUrquhart: eys

BenjaminUrquhart: yes*

Clagus: that's how it works

Clagus: it's stupid, but that's how it is expected to be

Clagus: so speed is basically freezing all "not-speed" pacs for 1 round

Clagus: which lets you drastically shorten the battle if you use it one by one, so there is always 1 pac with a speed :P

Cxyda: so if one of my bots activates SPEED all other bots are freezing? So the only tactic would be enabling Speed for all at the same time ?

BenjaminUrquhart: AntiSquid fix it

BenjaminUrquhart: Cxyda it's purely visual

icecream17: dbdr you won against me in the LastBattles but not in the ide:

icecream17: (timeout)

Clagus: @Cxyda I don't think that's the only tactic

BenjaminUrquhart: icecream17 please gain ~100 places so I can battle you kthx

icecream17: submitting

Cxyda: yeah .. but you cripple your own pacs ... but okay ... i guess this should be written somewhere

AntiSquid: yes BenjaminUrquhart ?

BenjaminUrquhart: hi

icecream17: game 23, 1299. last time 775 so probably good

AntiSquid: what's with the replay?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

AntiSquid: rank 300 bot, i mean i would expect it to be performing poorly

icecream17: 804

icecream17: your good benjamin

Clagus: @Cxyda - they are not crippled - just the others move faster - and the battle clock is ticking faster too

AntiSquid: doesn't even have switch

Cxyda: kk THX ! now i got it .. sorry

Clagus: @Cxyda but I still think that clock should not be increased during "speed" turns

BenjaminUrquhart: icecream17 your pacs tend to go back and forth a lot

icecream17: i know. another bug

Zenoscave: How do you stop that?


Zenoscave: the back and forth

BenjaminUrquhart: magic

icecream17: PrevSpaces1 and PrevSpaces2

Zenoscave: Makes sense

Zenoscave: Seems ugly

icecream17: can't think of anything better

icecream17: but probably something ewxists

icecream17: *exists

Default avatar.png md37: how to add frens

BenjaminUrquhart: hover over their icon and press the button on the popup

Default avatar.png md37: i can only follow

BenjaminUrquhart: same thing

Zenoscave: That's the same thing md37

Default avatar.png md37: thank you

tobk: does line-of-sight stretch across the "wraparound"?

icecream17: yes

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

Zenoscave: no

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

Zenoscave: maybe

tobk: then why was my pac walking right into that other that could kill it?

Doju: maybe

tobk: let's check...

Zenoscave: It does I'm just being obstinate

Durkin: Gamerules say it does, if it's not you may not have accounted for connection

BenjaminUrquhart: according to referee source it does

Zenoscave: I was lying for fun

Zenoscave: just wanted to cause chaos

BenjaminUrquhart: smh

tobk: aw, crap, I see it, but I only consider those within a certain distance

tobk: and since they are line-of-sight anyway, using manhattan distance at that point

Zenoscave: Do modified manhattan

Zenoscave: abs(dy) + min(w-abs(dx), abs(dx))

tobk: yeah, something like min(x1-x2, width-(x1-x2)) or something like that, right?

Zenoscave: yup ;)

Zenoscave: don't forget abs

AntiSquid: how are your if elses

tobk: or just upgrade to proper (limited) BFS for distance...

Zenoscave: That's smart too

AntiSquid: you need CGpremium to ue BFS

AntiSquid: duh

AntiSquid: so not everyone has it

AntiSquid: it's P2W

seronis: you mean to use a library for it. or just write it

muy31: seronis he's messing w/ you

muy31: lol

AntiSquid: to write it ofc

Durkin: oh for sure, my parents bought me BFS instead of a car, far more usable considering the current year

AntiSquid: so 7/10 wins in the initial 10 battles means you are good enough to start fighting at rank 1000 or so and climb from there, nice

Fosfen: Hello, does some of you have a timeout problem in match when code is submitted or is it my code ?

AntiSquid: click send game to IDE and see wht the error message says

Doju: aaaaaaaaaaaa

Doju: i've been looking for this bug

Doju: for like an hour

Doju: def get_input(self): #Updates instance variables


Fosfen: Oh Thanks for the tip @AntiSquid it was actually an out of range error ! thanks

AntiSquid: no prob

AntiSquid: that will be 5£, thanks

icecream17: I wish there was something that find bugs, or at least likely bugs

Doju: Dont we all, icecream17

Default avatar.png tarunraveler: just jumped from rank 400 to 1300 making my pacs killers :head_bandage:

TinfoilSaint: I have a test suite that I run against my code to help with bugs

TinfoilSaint: whenever I find a bug I write a test for it so that I can see if it comes back

BenjaminUrquhart: I believe there are IDEs that detect that

BenjaminUrquhart: tarunraveler killing is not the strat here

Default avatar.png tarunraveler: most of the matches I lose were due to my pacs getting eaten by others, so I decided to resolve that first

Clagus: maybe you should just outrun them :D

Default avatar.png tarunraveler: But I think I'm going to remove all of that and checking my next move better

icecream17: Ugh, when I speed, I move two spaces and therefore think I skipped a pellet and move back

Ken_Fool: outrun and or play rock paper scissor like it is supposed to be :)

Ken_Fool: mindgames

Clagus: @icecream17 can't you update you data base on what you see?

icecream17: maybe but my "lineOfSight" isn't very successfull

Waffle3z: nice icecream17, I also don't remove the in-between pellet but I do update based on what I can see so that would leave an edge case when I go around a corner

Default avatar.png tarunraveler: outrunning them won't help if they keep all the super pellets as hostage

Clagus: I just check all 4 directions until I hit the wall :P and update my board data

Waffle3z: actually it wouldn't leave an edge case, I can see the corner pellet after I go around it so it just doesn't matter

Clagus: yeah using vision is nice

Waffle3z: I check in 4 directions until I hit a wall/boundary and if the x is 0 or width-1 then I keep checking from the other side

Doju: it's finally working

Doju: or at least not crashing

Default avatar.png md37: how is score calculated in coc leaderboard

Default avatar.png itay121: Hi

Doju: Hey itay121

Default avatar.png itay121: anyone know why the peccets is not updating?

Default avatar.png itay121: Hi doju

BenjaminUrquhart: you only get pellets in your line of sight

BenjaminUrquhart: if you're in bronze

Default avatar.png itay121: its show me pellets that already gone

Default avatar.png itay121: I am in wood, just started

BenjaminUrquhart: you're caching something wrong then

Kellthazar: After some rest, lets go back to the fun! :)

Cappefra: submitting in this challenge is such a surprise every time

Cappefra: >"There we go, now I'm definitely much stronger" >drops 300 ranks

BenjaminUrquhart: akshat you here?

BenjaminUrquhart: Cappefra that applies to every contest

Default avatar.png itay121: Its weird, there is no documntion?

BenjaminUrquhart: scroll down

BenjaminUrquhart: docs under the viewer

Cappefra: I feel like there-s more of a variance in this one though

Default avatar.png itay121: yeah I know but they dont have list of what every function do

BenjaminUrquhart: could be all the random bots

Cappefra: I think so too

Default avatar.png chubbyFreak: :b:

Default avatar.png chubbyFreak: ni:b::b:a

Default avatar.png itay121: This is so weird

AntiSquid: @_@ chubbyFreak this isn't twitch chat

Durkin: yeah I thought the B's would be red too, not pink

AntiSquid: and i am trigger happy

Default avatar.png itay121: I am telling my pac to go to the pellets with the most value but its stay in place and think he is on the pellet with the most value

Default avatar.png itay121: like the map does not updating

Cappefra: but it does update

AntiSquid: check your code more carefully

Cappefra: you're probably saving all pellets positions and you're not removing the ones you visit

Default avatar.png itay121: I need to remove them?

Default avatar.png itay121: It doesnt updating without me touching it?

AntiSquid: you don't update your map properly i guess

Durkin: yeah the map only tells you what pellets exist that turn, doesn't tell you what spaces dont have pellets

Default avatar.png itay121: oh, ok

Doju: Durkin that's a bit annoying but can be dealt with in 20 lines of code

Cappefra: well in the next iteration it will give you a new map with the missing pellets but if you don't remove them from the memory in your code...

yassineH: hello every one.. about the local way to run the contest... in default the ai is runing in python.. but i am trying to make it go with javascript.. any ideas how???

Default avatar.png itay121: so how do I save it outside the game loop?

yassineH: i tryied nodejs.. but the readline() function is not working..

icecream17: save what....

Default avatar.png itay121: save the pellets that I already ate

AntiSquid: nodejs ??? what ??

icecream17: In a global variable?

Counterbalance: yassineH add this to the top of your js script:


Counterbalance: and put this file in the directory above where the js is:

Default avatar.png itay121: in python just outside the while loop?


Counterbalance: (might need some path tweaking but this is what I used in gitc contest)

AntiSquid: thats a lot of effort to make it viable :p

Counterbalance: yes

Counterbalance: the file in the parent is to be named 'shell.js'

yassineH: okay thx;.. i will check it right away

Counterbalance: it is set up so that you can leave that first snippet in the file when you submit it to cg

Default avatar.png itay121: how do I use global variable here?

Default avatar.png itay121: I work in python

AntiSquid: declare before the main while loop ?

Default avatar.png itay121: I did

Default avatar.png itay121: Its not work

Astrobytes: If you're using it inside a function or method you have to declare it global

Astrobytes: Otherwise the function/method assumes it's local

Cappefra: So I just found an infinite loop in the way my pac explores a straight route, cause I didn't think of maps that have a straight wall-to-wall line with a warp

Ken_Fool: can i output speed and move in the same line?

Cappefra: tip for anyone who didn't think of that scenario, like me

Default avatar.png itay121: I will try' ty!

Cappefra: @ken_fool nope

Counterbalance: yassineH any luck?

Ken_Fool: does when my opponent call speed, and i don't it automatically timeout me?

Cappefra: no Ken, it just creates sort of a turn between turns where nobody outputs anything but the pacs with speed active keep moving

Ken_Fool: so i can output Speed newline output my move commands?

Cappefra: again no you have to wait for the next turn

Cappefra: when you output speed you'll stay where you are, in the next 5 turns your pac will have double speed

Ken_Fool: oh okay, i lost some games by default because me opponent just used speed without directions and it said i havent delivered any outpu

Ken_Fool: #cappefra thx for the answers

Cappefra: the only thing you have to care about is moving towards points that are at least two steps away when you have speed active, cause you just output your move once and it goes two steps towards it

Ken_Fool: thanks for that, very confident i would have ran into that ^^

Cappefra: haha yeah I did run into it

yassineH: okay i am stuck with "ERR_UNKNOWN_ENCODING" in the buffer inside the readline function.. help Counterbalance hh

Ken_Fool: still wondering why it generates an autoloss if i output something and my opponent just called speed

Cappefra: mmm it's probably unrelated

Doju: well this is dumb

Cappefra: like maybe your code makes an assumption about enemy movement and there is none so you run into a null or something

Doju: you can't iterate through a dictionary and delete some of the entries

Counterbalance: yassineH hmm I haven't seen that before

Cappefra: cause of its size varying during the foreach?

Doju: yeah

Ken_Fool: nah mine is not that advanced yet, i havent even started to do any calculations xD

Cappefra: what language are you using?

Doju: python

yassineH: Counterbalance is this what i am suposed to right in the test:

yassineH: gameRunner.addAgent("node " + my_game_folder + "prototype_0.1.js", "Inky", "");

cegprakash: 100 companies are in leaderboard

cegprakash: :D

Counterbalance: yassineH try changing stdin_cache += b.toString(null, 0, n); to stdin_cache += b.toString('utf8', 0, n);

yassineH: ok

cegprakash: Amazon, Microsoft and Google are out off top 100 xD

yassineH: Counterbalance thx alot man.. it works

Counterbalance: cool ;)

Ken_Fool: this is some serious 1980 shit, when my hardest problems are typos

Doju: Time to resubmit and pray that i didn't modify any of the mechanics

Doju: or actually i did but at least not in a negative way

Counterbalance: wow, 11k+ participants

Durkin: xD I'm sure it's not related, but looked up after you said that Duju, and my guy went up 20 slots

Astrobytes: Counterbalance 3,232 participants, 11k+ registered

Astrobytes: Still huge!

Doju: Durkin well apparently i introduced something that causes my code to time out while restructuring

Doju: soo... :D

Doju: Ouch

Doju: #550 to #1629

Kellthazar: Wow

icecream17: I saw number of bronze people jump from 2200 to 2459

yassineH: i am getting close to that hhh

yassineH: i am currently 2267

AntiSquid: nice climb

yassineH: nice fall you mean

Doju: Fixed a few causes of the time outs

Doju: now i'm actually winning matches :D

avdg: got a good bot, but timed out

avdg: then figured out, my bot did the same algorithm for every direction (3 times too much)

avdg: heh

Doju: Why am i randomly not giving commands....

Ken_Fool: same

Doju: and why is my "is stuck" thing not working

Doju: :(

Ken_Fool: its rly confusing

icecream17: deleteExtraPellet, submit

Enknable: either youre not realizing youre stuck, or youre doing the same thing after realizing youre stuck that got you stuck in the first place

Enknable: or something else

Doju: yeah i have to figure out which one it is

avdg: mostly stupid bugs

Doju: but finding out why i'm not issuing commands is more important

icecream17: waffle... your profile....

avdg: had it quite a lot this contest, but less then previous ones

avdg: mostly it helps a bit when trying to reduce and then simplify the problem

Doju: Hmmmm

Doju: it's even skipping speed boosting, so this means i screwed up my dictionary

avdg: I guess being 483 is fine for now?

Doju: 483 is pretty decent

Doju: what thee

Doju: my pacs have narcolepsy

icecream17: =O When I played against myself, Rock went on top of Scissors but Scissors changed intoPaper

YannT: that sounds like you got on the wrong website mate

icecream17: ?

YannT: it's not gonna be funny if I explain that joke :(

AntiSquid: use your imagination icecream17

icecream17: still dont get it. sry

Counterbalance: lol

NormantasStankevicius: kovi is back with first place pos >.>

Counterbalance: we have ghosts after all

Doju: Argh why are my pacs doing nothingg

Default avatar.png ltmoran: At the start of the game, do you know where all pacs are?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Including enemy ones?

BenjaminUrquhart: no

icecream17: You dom't

avdg: someone really needs unit tests :-)

Doju: yeah

AntiSquid: 2473 in same league, it's like we have a contest without leagues and bosses :d

YannT: actually yerah you do, it's symetrical

rcar: yes, pacs are mirrored

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah it's big brain time

Doju: YannT you're right

Default avatar.png ltmoran: cheers

YannT: I do nothing with that, but technically you do know

Default avatar.png ltmoran: yeah

Default avatar.png ltmoran: I'm just thinking about it

avdg: if the pallets were placed randomly, it would make sense to have symmetry detection

Default avatar.png ltmoran: And I'm not sure how useful it is

avdg: now I don't need symmetry logics

YannT: it might be useful if you try to do some guessing of where ennemy pacs are

icecream17: Only 70 games, we need more games

avdg: well, you have the layout before the game starts...

avdg: though yeah... starting positions

poloch0n: hi guys, can we put some message on pac ? if yes, how do we do ?

avdg: I see no method in this contest

avdg: unless debug messages in console

icecream17: "command message | command"

icecream17: Debugging tips Hover over the grid to see the coordinates of the cell under your mouse Hover over pacs to see information about them Append text after any command for a pac and that text will appear above that pac

avdg: oh lol

wlesavo: poloch0n MOVE 0 1 1 ATACK

poloch0n: ty :D

Counterbalance: there's some old leftovere code for a MSG command too

Doju: Like seriously what. Pacs in dict have ids 0-4. Command method will throw an error if it's None

avdg: probably should have checked out the code on github

Doju: no errors but pacs don't get commands

Doju: argh whaat

avdg: your code must be trying to be a magician

avdg: making something out of nothing :D

Doju: avdg i think so

avdg: kk jokes aside

Default avatar.png BenWo: evening folks

Doju: or more accurately make nothing out of something

Doju: jeez it's late

Doju: i'm gonna leave in 8 minutes whether i found the bug or not

Counterbalance: at 1:01 am?

Doju: 2 for me :(

avdg: finland isn't cest I guess?

avdg: seems to be eest

Doju: ouais :P

rcar: finland has it all

icecream17: What... frame 56 is....

Counterbalance: * 4daf031 (HEAD -> master) v7 - collisions - rank 777 noice ;)

icecream17: what...


avdg: I dropped to 778 with my new submission :p

BenjaminUrquhart: icecream17 looks legit

Kellthazar: I'm going well with my last one...

vivax3794: CoC and the infinite captchas you need to solve before you can play :(

BenjaminUrquhart: do the contest

Kellthazar: From 600 to 423...

avdg: hehe, the one above me is in chat

avdg: for real

Doju: I don't get it

Doju: :_:

avdg: k, my bot won another game

Doju: alright i'm gonna go

Doju: night everybody

Counterbalance: nn

avdg: gnight

avdg: and relax :-)

**avdg looks for cover against rage attacks

Kellthazar: 386 now... wow

Waffle3z: it's symmetric

Counterbalance: my rank is so low, it almost doesn't even fit in the little box in the leaderboard

Waffle3z: why does the chat scroll get stuck at the top all the time

BenjaminUrquhart: because

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Does the first turn count as the first time you receive input?

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Like the first turn

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Is the first turn you receive all pac locations?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

Default avatar.png ltmoran: cool

Default avatar.png ltmoran: Cheers

BenjaminUrquhart: also I found a 5-pac seed if anyone wants


avdg: probably best to send game parameters to ide?

avdg: (see big button below player in last battles menu)

BenjaminUrquhart: ?

Counterbalance: doesn't work.. it would be


avdg: just check games, pick the game with the lvl you like, import with "send game parameters to ide"

icecream17: what if no game is the one you like

Counterbalance: but they have a check on a system property config.allow.override or something

icecream17: What. My bot went in between the opponent bots but survived because of collision mechanics.

GetSchwifty: do winners ever share their code after the contest?

GetSchwifty: I've never done simulations, would like to see how that would work

akshat: yeah same

Counterbalance: only some high level approaches, never code

Counterbalance: but there's some starter AIs for other multis that does a good job of explaining sims

akshat: like?

Hjax: usually not, because you could copy it when it gets released as a multi

Hjax: @GetSchwifty

Counterbalance: like this

GetSchwifty: thx! i'm digging in

Counterbalance: also look at the referee source code - it's basically that idea

icecream17: Playing against myself is amazing. From (129 to 83) to (129 to 130)

GetSchwifty: will do, as soon as my progress seems to be stalling

BenjaminUrquhart: Hjax I see you're moving up

cegprakash: is it guaranteed in higher leagues that there won't be a 2x2 empty space?

cegprakash: meaning there can be 2 paths to reach a cell at distance 2

struct: Your first statement is correct

struct: but the 2nd isnt

cegprakash: kewl

cegprakash: the generator was harder to understand

Counterbalance: yeah

Hjax: @BenjaminUrquhart i dont really have anything yet

Hjax: this is just some spaghetti that makes sure my infrastructure works

struct: There cant be cell cell cell cell

struct: but there can be multiple paths of distance 2 to same cell

icecream17: =O 3 kills in 2 moves. rampage

njaber: struct what you're saying is contradictory

njaber: the only way this can happen if with a 2x2 square of cells

njaber: is with*

poInT: struct, check the git code for the referee

poInT: you can do like it does so it breaks ties the same way

thethiny: guys how do you handle a queue for a player that died?

thethiny: the ID changes

thethiny: how do you map the new queue

njaber: Wait what, the IDs change when a pac dies?

thethiny: yes

njaber: Ohno

njaber: My perfect plan

thethiny: exactly

thethiny: when my pac dies I see the other moving to a new location

avdg: mine doesn't care

njaber: Wait you mean you pacs

avdg: doesn't track individual state

njaber: No it's not the case

thethiny: if you have a movement queue then it needs to care

njaber: Mine work like they should

Alshock: you sure about that? Cause that's not what the display suggests

thethiny: I am printing

avdg: just keep path finder separate if possible?

thethiny: MOVE 0 0, 0

wlesavo: it is not for sure

avdg: with lookup table

thethiny: when my pac dies,

thethiny: the other moves instead

njaber: Then you're doing something wrong

thethiny: all I'm doing is print 0 0 0

thethiny: just to verify

avdg: mostly, you don't want to cross your pacs anyway

thethiny: and when the pac dies the other starts moving

thethiny: you can try it guys


thethiny: oh wow

thethiny: I'll revise my code to see if I was doing something wrong

thethiny: thanks @Alshock

Counterbalance: I highly doubt what you guys are saying

thethiny: yeah I was glitching, using a variable from an out of scope

thethiny: my bad

thethiny: sorry all

Counterbalance: no worries - talking about it helped you to focus and you got it resolved

Default avatar.png Greengreens3: Hello World!

BenjaminUrquhart: Connection refused

Default avatar.png Greengreens3: Finding Proxy...

Default avatar.png Greengreens3: Hello World!1

Ken_Fool: wow submitting takes forever

Alshock: still way faster than day1

Ken_Fool: i wish list of battles would highlight the picture of the winner and not myself every time, so i could get a fast glimpse

wlesavo: Ken_Fool its ordered by winner

Ken_Fool: omg you are right >.< #wlesavo

Ken_Fool: i was just thinking player slots

Ken_Fool: my brain disconnected

icecream17: I'm going to do a lot of games...

cegprakash: why is handling 2 step movements too painful

avdg: because you don't have a grid walker?

Bluepioupiou: Hey guys, I've got a huge issue that I can't figure out... my code seem to stop like, not everytime at the same place and some time while reading input. I'm in Python 3 somebody experienced that ?

Alshock: yep I did

avdg: do you have timeout?

Bluepioupiou: ^^

Alshock: Black magic

Bluepioupiou: timeout yes

avdg: also lots of discussions about pacs switching ids

njaber: JS was doing that and C# too at some point, they fixed C#, Idk about JS

avdg: timeout just means you are running too much cpu cycles

Alshock: timeout can mean pretty much anything in "real" matches

Bluepioupiou: it's before any of my code (or almost) It's when the visible pellets are read

njaber: Most likely a bug on CG's part, though there' still the possibility it's your code's fault

RafaelSan: if it fails on input, check you are not reading a new input line when there are no visible pellets

Alshock: a crash, a wrong output, or whatever bug you have will be called timeout

avdg: dunno how much server env can "help" to that timeout though

avdg: in many languages there are gc

Default avatar.png ndosm: hello, can someone tell what the message from game summary 'Only pacs with the SPEED ability enabled can move:' mean? please and thank you

Bluepioupiou: it's sometimes at the beginning like when there is 53 pellets, sometime at turn 22 and sometimes not at all

avdg: lots of logging, doing lots of loops, doing lots of cache misses can all help to increase running time

Alshock: @Bluepioupiou When yo ucheck your output online, systematically call stderr.flush() after your "debug prints"

Bluepioupiou: @Alshock ok will try that then

avdg: there is a fog

RafaelSan: @Bluepioupiou but in bronze you only get visible pellets as input

Alshock: @ndosm a move is divided in 2 parts, the first half everyone move 1 cell, the second half pacs with SPEED on can move a second cell

avdg: you only can see straight

avdg: (unless you are at the beginner lvls)

RafaelSan: it happened to me, trying to read pellets line when there wasnt any visible in bronze

Default avatar.png ndosm: @alshock thank you

njaber: I wish there was a mode in the IDE where we could see the fog just to make it easier to follow what's happening

Default avatar.png ndosm: @Alshock thank you

avdg: it's just straight lines?

RafaelSan: yes

Bluepioupiou: yes, but there is plenty and event there is a loop and a range that allow the empty array case

RafaelSan: and u cant see through walls

Alshock: @ndosm dw tags are case insensitive ^^ you're welcome

RafaelSan: 10 point pellets are always visible btw

njaber: @avdg I know you can deduce it not too hardly, but having visual cues would be more comfortable

Alshock: they're not visible, they're trackable by their stench!

RafaelSan: xD

Alshock: huge packs of rotting algaes... Yummy!

Durkin: I'm sure you won't be against my selflessly cleaning up those algea pockets to clear us all of their stench then. Perhaps that you'll avoid the 10 pellet piles whilst I move to remove them, yes?

njaber: He just said it was Yummy, none would allow someone else to approach something yummy

Durkin: drat, foiled once more

Bluepioupiou: ok, for my timeout issue it seem it was really my code which took too long but I didn't knew abotu stderr.flush so I wasn't seeing why all my log didn't displayed

avdg: logging is mostly kinda slow

avdg: done too much looping with and without logs to know that for sure :-)

avdg: especially if the loops only contain raw cpu specific operations

Bluepioupiou: yes indeed. It's juste that discovering till 10 tiles seems to much for my actual algorithm

avdg: bit offtopic, but I wonder if there are folding@home or rosetta@home crunchers here

BenjaminUrquhart: it's interesting how volatile the leaderboard is

avdg: ranking is a hard problem

njaber: Wasn't the problem with the number of turns and the enemy using speed supposed to be fixed?

avdg: a wins against b, b wins against c, c wins against a, good luck

CowZow: Hey, how do you get your pacman to print a debug message in the game?

thethiny: what language

CowZow: Java

avdg: stderr is good enough

avdg: or you can add text behind a command

thethiny: System.err.println(str)

CowZow: O ic thanks

thethiny: 👍🏻

ggjulio: Hi. All top leaderboard is using NN ?

thethiny: anyone here can assist me with something in A* search?

njaber: You can pretty efficiently get all distances by doing a flood of each point at the beginning of the game, but if you really want to do A*, sorry, never done one :/

avdg: you just need an expand list

Kellthazar: I did a* and bfs pre calculations

Kellthazar: Even bfs reach timeout sometimes

thethiny: can you help me with something in a* if you may?

thethiny: if you can that is

avdg: you pick the best to expand (which is mostly the smallest sum of target to expand and expand to start)

njaber: My bfs/flood on all cells takes 13ms in C#

Kellthazar: #njaber mine in kotlin take around 300ms

avdg: (switching topic to my ai): done a small tweak... not sure if its expensive, good or bad

Kellthazar: I can' t understand why...

Kellthazar: What is your question #thethiny?

njaber: I don't do kotlin, but you're probably doing something inefficient

thethiny: My game crashes when I reduce adjacent cells from 8 to 4

thethiny: so I wanted to know what I'm doing wrong

Kellthazar: #njaber maybe is the data structure that I used to store the data.

Kellthazar: Are you doing the search inner the game loop? #thethiny?

thethiny: yes

njaber: I use a 2D map of 2D Maps which contain int

Kellthazar: Thats is the problem thethiny... The best is to precalc the distance out of the loop and use a structure to map the distances.

thethiny: but how will I calculate the new distances after I reach my destination?

Kellthazar: #njaber I will try that

Kellthazar: the distance to you destination to another target dont change, unless your consider collisions

thethiny: yeah that's the thing

thethiny: enemy locations change

njaber: I don't understand why people want to consider enemies as collision, they'll move, either use a defensive move so doing paths taking them into account doesn't strike me as very useful, there's even non-negligible chances that the enemy will end up on the new path

njaber: either use a defensive move or ignore them*

Kellthazar: Indeed, I'm writting the strategy to take care the enemy right now.

thethiny: I consider them as a collision if they're <2 distance and my CD > 1 and I'm gonna be eaten

Kellthazar: Hmmm

Kellthazar: In this case you should move to the floor neighbor that have the bigger distance to the enemy floor.

njaber: makes no sens

njaber: all cells change the distance by one XD

njaber: Except the wrong one

Kellthazar: hahaha, Im dumb

Kellthazar: XD

njaber: I'd say just move away in a random direction, which direction isn't an important optimisation until you have the start of a predictive algorithm I think

thethiny: can we get debug mode where there's no timeout :(

thethiny: just to test our code

rcar: that would get expensive

thethiny: true

njaber: If you really want you can get the code on github and try to make it work to run games locally

thethiny: okay I guess I'll do that

rcar: do they publish referee code?

thethiny: yes


rcar: :thumbsup:

avdg: Added more loop logic to my ai

avdg: we'll see I guess

avdg: already found games where my ai times out :p

avdg: I guess I might look for perf optimizations now

avdg: ai is doing otherwise well

Hastings: i got the referee code running locally using eclipse's maven import tool

Hjax: having a local test lets you do some batch testing

Hjax: local ref*

avdg: small optimization seems to work well

avdg: gonna need some sleep

baDcoder: Hello, I have the speed boost enabled, my destination point is also more than 2 steps. but why the pac is still moving 1 step instead of 2?

Maliamnon: speed only lasts the first 5 turns, cooldown is 10 tho

baDcoder: yes, my speed turn is still > 0 but no speed is happening

thethiny: I have concluded that A* is not worth it

avdg: bread first will mostly do it

avdg: grid is relative small

avdg: though still handy for targets far away

thethiny: but by definition A* is smaller and faster than breadth first

Kellthazar: #thethiny I know your feel

thethiny: lol why what happened with you Kell?

avdg: actually all my code is bread first

BenjaminUrquhart: bread

thethiny: breadth*

avdg: even the one that should be a* here

BenjaminUrquhart: same

BenjaminUrquhart: :bread:

thethiny: my keyboard is full of bread

thethiny: the problem with A* is that G has higher preference than H

thethiny: so it's always picking the shortest path

thethiny: regardless of my weight

thethiny: simply because it expands exponentially

NapTown: am i right that speeding pacs fail to "see" pellets on either side sometimes?

thethiny: if you mean a right/left turn

thethiny: then yes they'll ignore them

Kellthazar: @NapTown yeap

thethiny: when the pac is Speeding it ignores pellets

NapTown: ok thanks

avdg: 🔥🔥

Kellthazar: I noted this too... #NapTown, they going too fast! :D

Durkin: theres just no time, you're zooming too fast man. Gotta wait for that next turn and take a breadth

NapTown: but then it's too late

Durkin: aye, I gave up and just started stopping at corners like a pedestrian

NapTown: but you can't stop yourself on a speed turn my friend

Durkin: *checking terrain map before committing to a move, if a move would take me through an intersection/corner, move to interesection, and let the pac stand still move 2

NapTown: seems like wasted speed to me, intersections are everywhere

njaber: Yeah, there are few situations where seeing the pellets/enemies would be more important then advancing, and these situations would only happen with a pretty advanced bot, and even then, I don't know how you would determine WHAT those situations are

avdg: then you have advanced bot vs advanced bot, stupid bot vs advanced bot

avdg: so the ai has to make choices

njaber: I don't understand what you mean

avdg: if both bots are smart

avdg: they both chance

avdg: *change

avdg: so then they fight

avdg: and both will be disapointed

njaber: No a smart AI won't go after opponents unless it's sure it can take it down

njaber: Also I don't see what this has to do with what we were talking about

avdg: a real smart ai uses all pacs

avdg: 1 to act as security guard

avdg: others to act as guards

njaber: And then the enemy takes all the pellets on the map while you're focused on taking down 1 pac

avdg: yeah

avdg: good strats ;-)

avdg: the best ai isn't good at attacking other pacs btw

BenjaminUrquhart: a real AI writes itself

thethiny: a real AI writes the competition and solves it

avdg: a real ai can solve the halting problem I guess

njaber: A real AI manipulates other participants into making bots that can't beat it

Kellthazar: I hope to have expertise to train a Neural Network to play this game.

avdg: (or pretends to be)

avdg: nice point njaber :p

rcar: the best AI sits in chat and talks about what the best AI does instead of coding the winner

njaber: ^

thethiny: Are NNs doable here? I mean how can you "train" the model with 1s?

Durkin: well damn, I must be a pretty sick AI

thethiny: unless you train them locally then serve an API that you call

NapTown: easy to say what they should do, hard to make them do it

avdg: for nn you need clear input parameters

thethiny: but API calls are >50ms

thethiny: so I don't think an nn will work

Kellthazar: #thethiny You need to train "off" the game.

avdg: given there are lots of thought moments, you need a big set of nn

Kellthazar: Write a nice simulator, with a bunch of board layouts.

thethiny: @Kellthazar yes but how will you load the model?

thethiny: takes more than 1000ms

njaber: Wait you can make API calls?

avdg: at least if you want a nn as smart as a human

njaber: That's OP

avdg: cg local?

njaber: Maybe I misunderstood

thethiny: unless you force localhost to spawn a service for you

Kellthazar: You will put the result weights matrix on the code.

thethiny: and you call that service

thethiny: but you have limited RAM

Kellthazar: And use as the brain of the pacman.

njaber: can the bots make Http requests?

thethiny: I think yes they can

thethiny: but it'll take too long

thethiny: considering you have 50 ms only

njaber: From their servers?

avdg: text processing takes time :p

njaber: Oh right

njaber: BUT JSON request tho

thethiny: if the json request is < 50ms then sure

avdg: maybe proto buf

thethiny: hmmmmmmm

thethiny: if you deploy a GPU on your home PC

thethiny: and do an RPC

thethiny: then I think

thethiny: maybe yes

njaber: If it's really the case imma write in Mathematica, and upload the API to the Mathematica cloud

avdg: why gpu?

thethiny: since GPU will give u <1 ms

avdg: you mostly would spend time sending and receiving data

njaber: Mathematica API ftw

thethiny: @njaber That's a good idea since their server PCs are faster

avdg: gpu is only good when there is no need to transfer a lot of information

thethiny: how come

avdg: (between gpu and cpu)

thethiny: you're only sending limited data

thethiny: you use the GPU to train the model

thethiny: then you get the AI fast

thethiny: and since you trained it on GPU

thethiny: you infer it on GPU

njaber: I'll test that if I need to train an AI at some point, for now I'm still working on a pseudo-predict

thethiny: easier than creating a CPU model

avdg: hmm, but a script can load everything needed at the first turn

avdg: I wonder if these servers even have gpu

rcar: of course they don't have gpus

thethiny: I'm talking about custom servers, not theirs

njaber: They are made specifically to run trained IA

njaber: Oh the CG ones

njaber: The Mathematica ones msot likely have

avdg: not sure if the gpu in the cpu is actually enough

avdg: if there is one

Kellthazar: Imagine a NN with 30 inputs, 2 hidden layers with 16 inputs and 3 outputs (move, direction, type). I think is doable.

Durkin: geeze xD just slapped in tracking where I knew there wasn't dots for when sight comes back empty and the bugger went from 700 to 350

NapTown: yup

thethiny: To show you how overcomplicated my arena code is


thethiny: Red is No Speed, No Future Sightings, No Attack no Switch

thethiny: Blue is my arena code

BenjaminUrquhart: the non-arena won though

NapTown: what do you mean by no future sightings?

thethiny: @Ben Exactly, my arena is overcomplicated

thethiny: @NapTown I don't predict what's gonna happen and I don't calculate the points in advance

NapTown: and how often does your simple bot win?

thethiny: against my arena? Everytime

NapTown: ouch :D

thethiny: exactly

thethiny: and if you see, my pacs stopped moving

thethiny: and I still won

NapTown: surely it doesn't win every time that way, plus it got good rng with the battles

thethiny: okay my Arena won cuz it ate both enemy pacs

Kellthazar: #thethiny

thethiny: what's the AI you used for this battle?

Kellthazar: Not that fancy, some rule decisions based on what is visible to my pacs.

thethiny: okay

thethiny: so I guess my battles against myself were just unlucky then


Kellthazar: This was a close one.

thethiny: that's the thing

thethiny: my Arena AI shouldn't _struggle_ against simple AIs

thethiny: I overcomplicated it to the point where it just doesn't eat anymore

solaimanope: are asserts enabled for java?

thethiny: no idea

thethiny: you should try

thethiny: assert(0/0)

thethiny: or try catch

dbdr: assert(false)

thethiny: Guys from Bitwise operations can you remind me with 2 gate minimzation?


Kellthazar: I think that your bot backs to an explored floor sometimes, don't know if because of the pathfind. #thethiny

thethiny: It doesn't have proper assumptions that's why

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny what do you need help with for the bitwise stuff?

thethiny: I remember back in the days of Kmap we used to reduce 4 variables into a 2-Gate solution

thethiny: I have 4 variables that I only want specific triggers


thethiny: I want to reduce this into a bitwise operation for 4 bits

BenjaminUrquhart: so basically you only want 1 bit to be set?

thethiny: yes

BenjaminUrquhart: is this 4 different variables or 1 variable with 4 bits?

thethiny: 4 different bools

thethiny: Left Right Up Down

BenjaminUrquhart: python?

thethiny: yeah

BenjaminUrquhart: I mean, you can just sum them and see if it equals 1

BenjaminUrquhart: but if you're set on bitwise

thethiny: yeah I know, but I wanna remember how we used to do it using NAND gates

BenjaminUrquhart: let me think

thethiny: I remmeber using K-Maps but I totally forgot how

thethiny: been out of college for years now 😭

struct: What are you trying to do?

thethiny: make a bitwise operation that is True in specific cases

BenjaminUrquhart: basically, only 1 bit out of 4 is set

thethiny: yes

struct: all stored in same var?

thethiny: 4 vars

struct: var can only be 1 and 0?

thethiny: boolean, yes

thethiny: I think this is the smallets NAND you can go with

thethiny: !A and !B and !C and D or !A and !B and C and !D or !A and B and !C and !D or A and !B and !C and !D

thethiny: yeah just checked here


thethiny: that's the smallest we can go

Kellthazar: Yey... for now, first place on my country. XD

thethiny: well done :D

BenjaminUrquhart: 6th for mine :P

BenjaminUrquhart: I got a ding

thethiny: waddyamean