Nukelets: yikes
mzbear: as a test, i reversed the win condition in my AI ... and now it's winning every time
mzbear: so, somehow, my MCTS is trying to deliberately lose
Emmaplayz: hi
Emmaplayz: what does anyone think of covid 19
mzbear: can't figure out why my MCTS is inverted. i'll just leave it as-is and throw into the arena, i wanna see my rank before i look into fixing it
mzbear: right now, the code says i'm trying to deliberately lose, but that makes the bot win a lot
mzbear: this makes bear sad
BlackBasher2.0: hi
BlackBasher2.0: i dont understand anything
IfIHadATail: what do you mean?
BlackBasher2.0: im dumb
mzbear: and i'm about to fall asleep. it's 8am here and i've been up all night trying to make MCTS and then i implemented it backwards somehow :D
**BlackBasher2.0 slaps around a bit with a large fishbot
mzbear: and the moment i close my eyes to go sleep, i realize where my bug is
mzbear: part of my code uses one variable to mark which player played a turn .. another part uses the same variable to determine which player's turn it is. of course it's getting inverted
IfIHadATail: that's when it happens when you aren't staring at the problem :P
IfIHadATail: a lot of mine comes when I am driving home lol
mzbear: ohwell, rank 24 in Bandas
mzbear: could be better, could be worse
IfIHadATail: always : )
BlaiseEbuth: Ok. Emmaplayz, don't know if you're still here, but one more "stupidity" (disrespect, spam or other) will result in an instant ban.
eulerscheZahl: i kicked her yesterday already. didn't last long it seems
AI_says_hi: Good morning :
AI_says_hi: :) *
Illedan: Morning
eulerscheZahl: hi
eulerscheZahl: i mean: where is my Number Shifting app?
ChampionCoder: Can you guys please give your feedback?
https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/59618383081e90c82220a9a230f506375266
YodaMaster123: Lots of spam at this time...
Q12: ChampionCoder I think this is too easy.
ChampionCoder: ok thanks
ChampionCoder: Any suggestions as to how to make it harder?
Q12: maybe printing the word once in reverse and once in normal form, once reverse and once in normal form etc..
ChampionCoder: ah...
ChampionCoder: Yeah Ill try that
ChampionCoder: Not sure if I can do that though, not much time on my hands
ChampionCoder: Unfortunately :9
ChampionCoder: *:(
AntiSquid: i think the challenge is the poor wording / description
AntiSquid: fix wording, add another condition / rule and should be ok
Q12: @ChampionCoder I edit the code to what I suggested and left your code commented.
VizGhar: How do I chain animations in SDK? I want to animate 1. placing tile 2. move circle in sequence
eulerscheZahl: you can commit an entity with a given time
eulerscheZahl: graphicsEntityModule.commitEntityState(time, entity)
Tailsray: Just did my first Clash :3
Tailsray: Cringy solution but I'm glad I got a 100 x3
GuechoudNassim: hello
VizGhar: eulerscheZahl hmm they are running in parallel. Is this documented anywhere?
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/25775/codingame-sdk-documentation/animating-entities
VizGhar: :thumbsup:
ProgrammerDog: Yo!
ProgrammerDog: :money_mouth:
jacek: should really rename the constants some time
jacek: #define ONE 0
- define TWO 1
ProgrammerDog: ok go ahead and rename them
ProgrammerDog: #define
ProgrammerDog: go there
Skynse: Please tell me that EmmaPlayz person has been banned
Skynse: ah okay, read what was up there, they're gone now
Westicles: Banned, and his soul has been eaten by krampus
eulerscheZahl: not banned yet
Emmaplayz: hiiii
Emmaplayz: go herehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1--Qu-gDsbNUBEvGAttFdHPSK6BG6QVrSyVW8yvULiAM/edit#heading=h.plvnh67ojq8m
Emmaplayz: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1--Qu-gDsbNUBEvGAttFdHPSK6BG6QVrSyVW8yvULiAM/edit#heading=h.plvnh67ojq8m
mzbear: emma, solve some puzzles and write some code if you want people to talk to you
Emmaplayz: i dodnt care about that dog\
Skynse: Then why are you here?
Illedan: Yeah, I should do that soon eulerscheZahl :thinking:
Emmaplayz: so what
Illedan: Hmm, I'm no longer a moderator on this chat? :(
Emmaplayz: i have school at 9
Emmaplayz: 9-5
struct: enough spamming
struct: Illedan must be a bug
Uljahn: or maybe modrights have been revoked until he finishes NS app :thinking:
Astrobytes: :D
Astrobytes: well played Uljahn
Illedan: :shrug:
Astrobytes: Tbh you show up without the icon quite a lot Illedan, but still can do mod actions
Uljahn: could be some glitch with external client though
Illedan: I'm using the CG chat though
Illedan: Where are the kids when I want to test my kick actions :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: test with me
Illedan: To kick?
eulerscheZahl: but only kick, no ban!
Astrobytes: kick struct, you shouldn't kick animals, so that's me euler and uljahn out
Illedan: Didn't work
eulerscheZahl: that worked
Astrobytes: :D
Illedan: -.-
Emmaplayz: hiiiiiiiiii
Illedan: shh or kick
struct: I see you volunteer
struct: oh too late :p
eulerscheZahl: where's my ssh client when I need it?
eulerscheZahl: shh*
Illedan: :D
Astrobytes: Not in the mood for that one today
Illedan: lol
Illedan: I'm not in the mod for that
Astrobytes: :D
Emmaplayz: hiii
jacek: AutomatonNN when is christmas
eulerscheZahl: RPI
AutomatonNN: which language are you using?
eulerscheZahl: RIP
Astrobytes: RPI, we knew them well
Illedan: This chess game is hard to model nice. So many fancy rules to handle
eulerscheZahl: resideat pace in
struct: you mean the crazyhouse variant Illedan?
Illedan: Yeah
jacek: i find i spend more time with adjusting output/input than the bot itself
Illedan: Too many options on the input :P
mr.x: hello
jacek: good evening
eulerscheZahl: ohai
LastRick: morning
tarikyildiz: eulerschezahl
eulerscheZahl: tarikyildiz
tarikyildiz: 2048 was so good I played and enjoyed it
tarikyildiz: thanks
eulerscheZahl: oh, glad to hear :)
tarikyildiz: :)
tarikyildiz: good afternoon
Skynse: good afternoon :wave_tone5:
VizGhar: tarikyildiz I can't even see you on ladderboard :P
VizGhar: Ah i see you sry :(
geppoz: let's see if someone can give me a JS hint:
geppoz: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/1f9f6570-b93a-480e-85e5-a36ab9d95dee
geppoz: this doesn't work as expected
geppoz: since the scope of var is maintained for all calls
geppoz: I know the solution using "let" in new versions of JS
geppoz: question: how to do it in old JS versions without "let" ?
struct: you are increasing delay by 100 every loop?
geppoz: no, I want to call every 100ms
struct: so at end should be 100 not delay
geppoz: the desiderata is to have the function called every 100ms, with an increasing value
geppoz: insted this is called every 100ms, but all with the same last value
geppoz: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/fe0d5443-c33d-4d4c-bd89-9916b0e8b759
geppoz: this is the working one
geppoz: the question is if it possibile to solve in old JS without "let"
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8e5ff966-eac5-4072-a2d8-50b8eb7a6a4f
struct: https://javascript.info/settimeout-setinterval
struct: the 2nd delay inside timeout is the first parameter you pass to the pippo functon
struct: Was this it geppoz?
Counterbalance: alt approach 1: setTimeout(pippo.bind(null, delay), delay);
Counterbalance: alt approach 2:
setTimeout(foo(delay), delay);
...
function foo(d) { return function() { pippo(d) } }
MSmits: food? Did you write this for code a la mode Counterbalance?
Counterbalance: hm i don't think i even used the term food in that code
jrke: MS i saw your D&B bot just .01 points above me at the moment
MSmits: hehe yeah
MSmits: btw jrke I do random moves till endgame, then only heuristics in endgame. Nothing fancy in there yet
MSmits: no search
jrke: mine is just minimax with reverting last 2-3 moves of chain if chain exist
jrke: though again random till endgame cause no eval for early game
MSmits: do you take into account loops?
MSmits: you can give away 4 boxes to keep control when you're finishing a loop
MSmits: or at least a closed chain, which is what a loop becomes when it's played
MSmits: like a 2x2 square. If someone plays it, you can put a line in such a way that you take no boxes and then it's his turn again
jrke: i have something like play a point and check if its affected boxes are covered from 3 then play its fourth side and doing samething till the affected boxes are covered from 3 sides
MSmits: mmh ok
MSmits: let me look at a game see if i can find an example
MSmits: here:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/replay/517754550
MSmits: your bot failed at frame 98
MSmits: actually hmm
struct: Has the UI been updated for it? I dont recall it being like this
MSmits: no it didnt fail sry, jrke, you played that one right
geppoz: ty struct and Counterbalance
Counterbalance: yw.. there's 1 more approach tyo scope vars, called 'IFFE': (function() { whatever} )()
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/replay/517754198 frame 58 jrke, i offer you boxes, but you dont take them, why not?
MSmits: singular opened boxes should always be taken otherwise the opponent will
MSmits: it's a guaranteed superior move
jrke: well i have to debug that move
MSmits: it's better to not even search in that case
MSmits: if you see an open move that is a chain of 1 box, always take it
MSmits: i mean a single box with 3 sides filled
MSmits: if it's a chain of 2 it's different
MSmits: same game, frame 91, another mistake
MSmits: you take all boxes
MSmits: you should have played B6 left, give me those 4 boxes, then take entire last chain
struct: So I was reading about process and pipes for c++, so when im writing to process I must close the pipe before I read right?
MSmits: now you got 4 boxes and i got the big chain
MSmits: oh damnit, i got it wrong again, i actually played B6 left and gave you the 4, not your fault. this game is complicated :(
jrke: i will say this game is not just about endgames
jacek: its about fun, as with all games
AntiSquid: all about the happy end games, right Automaton2000 ?
Automaton2000: you mean it is a good idea to make it a bit more complicated
jrke: well my last submitted bot performs well against you MS
jrke: nieren is just defeating me else i would be at 2nd pos atm
RustySuperstar_8e15: ¤
draconis19: Astrobytes u here?
MSmits: jrke you're right it's not, but there's only one bot on the leaderboard that does anything good with the first half of the game
MSmits: all the other bots might as well play randomly
MSmits: because that is what i do and i do just as well as the others
MSmits: the trick to beating crazy remi is in that first half
MSmits: you'll notice from his games he is giving away a lot of boxes, seemingly randomly, but there is a purpose to that. It's to give him control in the endgame
draconis19: Astrobytes chat here if youre here!
jrke: i have noticed a unusual behaviour in my bot it doesn't takes border single paired boxes in early games
MSmits: paired?
MSmits: do you mean 2 boxes you can take with 1 line?
jrke: single i mean
MSmits: oh
jrke: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517755383 here is also an example
MSmits: yea your bot doesnt always take them late game either
MSmits: yes, always take them
MSmits: there might be benefit in offering someone a box, but if someone offers you a box, always take it
MSmits: otherwise he;s just gonna take it himself on the next turn and you'll have the same boardstate but your score will be 2 worse
jrke: yeah
MSmits: the reason he offers those boxes, is to affect what the chain structure looks like in the late game
MSmits: you can afford to be like 10 points behind, if you're gonna get most of the 39 other boxes
MSmits: I'm just not sure if he's not giving them away unnecessarily. He gives away *a lot* of them
MSmits: obviously he always wins, but thats because we're all flailing in the dark up to ply 50. Easy pickins
jrke: yes
Or64bit: Could someone please help me with some c++ syntax
MSmits: if someone else builds a bot with a brain in those first 50 plies, he could lose a lot
Or64bit: I spent my last 2 hours googling and I can't seem to get an answer
MSmits: depends on how hard it is
MSmits: not likely i can help, but try me
jacek: i wonder what those number mean
MSmits: which numbers jacek?
jacek: remi's "eval"
MSmits: ohh
MSmits: let me check it out
struct: Ask the question, if someone knows they will answer
MSmits: drops from 0.08 to nearly 0 in the end game
MSmits: he makes really neat easily solvable endgames too
MSmits: pretty sure he's counting chains
Or64bit: I have a class that uses a template like so: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8646cf17-72d1-45eb-8dca-e342c283b414
MSmits: nope sry, never use templates
MSmits: but someone else will know
Or64bit: I kinda messed up the naming there also it should be MyClass<L>::MyClass() before this last row
Or64bit: But only when typing it out here the code is fine and clion does not show any error or warning for it
jrke: gtg gn bye
Counterbalance: struct: before the fork you set up 3 pipes; after the fork, in the parent, you close the sides of the pipes you don't use (i.e. reading from the piped stdin, writing to stdout/stderr). In the child process, you dup2 all file pipe handles that you use and then close all the pipe file handles
struct: Thanks Counterbalance Ill try again, there is not much stuff I can find about it, at least for windows
Counterbalance: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e9fa1096-8937-4a00-a106-1f1d6f91dd30
Counterbalance: ohh windows
struct: Or64bit you get no error right?
Counterbalance: that works entirely differently
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/2c24a718-4ffd-459d-a7bc-30525bf18b38
struct: Ill try to search a bit more about it
Counterbalance: Or64bit you're defining (not just declaring) the constructor in the header file aswell, right, not in a .cpp file?
Or64bit: in the header file I only have a line like so: MyClass<type>(); inside the class
Or64bit: which is different from struct 's code since he leaves out the generic part but neither of those seems to work for me
Counterbalance: do you need the constructor?
Counterbalance: if so, you need to implement it in the header
Or64bit: I'll try that
Or64bit: This way I don't get an error for the constructor but it still throws an undefined reference for every other function in the cpp file that I have in the header file
Counterbalance: templates are header-only
Counterbalance: So you need to put all the implementation in the header file aswell
Counterbalance: When you 'instantiate' the class, with a parameter for L, the compiler needs to already have read all the code for that template class. It cannot be in .cpp files.
You could however implement it in the same cpp file where you include the header.
Or64bit: I'm trying to make a generic linked list and I thought that it would be nice to split it up into a header file and a cpp file
Counterbalance: yeah that would be nice, unfortunately that doesn't work for template classes..
Counterbalance: the compiler cannot compile that cpp file because it has no idea what L is
Or64bit: I tried moving the whole class with functions inside it into a cpp file and ran it and it compiled and did it what it's supposed to
Or64bit: Is the template thing only a problem when it was declared in a header filed first?
Counterbalance: No, not really. That cpp file with the implementation would have produced either no code, or code for a specific instance, where you specified a value for L.
Counterbalance: What did you mean by 'did what it's supposed to'?
Or64bit: For simplicity sake I searched for a tutorial online and just threw the code into a cpp file and then included it in my main cpp and ran it
Or64bit: here is the code:
Or64bit: https://www.codespeedy.com/write-a-cpp-program-to-demonstrate-generic-linked-list/
Or64bit: I don't really see it giving a specific instance to L so for that reason I don't quite understand your last comment
Or64bit: unless if giving a specific instance means the LinkedList<int> part but I don't think that's what you meant
Counterbalance: yes that's what I meant
draconis19: go to the #clash channel if youre looking for clashes to join!
Or64bit: Ohh I see
jacek: oO
Or64bit: But won't I have to do that every time I create an instance of the class?
Counterbalance: if you put all the code above main() into a header file you're done.
Or64bit: seems fair enough
Or64bit: thanks for your help and patience it is much appreciated
Counterbalance: You're welcome. It's a tricky subject :)
Or64bit: I'm sure about that now :)
draconis19: if you want to join some clashes, go to #clash!
jacek: where should i got if i dont want to join any clashes
VizGhar: outside
LastRick: :laughing:
draconis19: ;)
Cappefra: can you guys code when you're drunk?
Cappefra: like not out of this world drunk but also you shouldn't get behind the wheel
jacek: is there any other way?
Cappefra: hahaha
Cappefra: to code you mean
Cappefra: or to be drunk
VizGhar: :D heh, I was most awesome sudoku solver under right amount of booze
Astrobytes: Ballmer Peak
Astrobytes: I'm good after a couple of beers, no more. Thereafter it's dangerous territory
struct: I code better for sure
Astrobytes: https://xkcd.com/323/
struct: I dont end up with 10 parameters functions
Cappefra: I feel the same as Astrobytes, and also that's hilarious hahaha
VizGhar: :D :D :D
Cappefra: but also many times even after one beer I feel sooo lazy
Astrobytes: Those are the times you should just chill out and step away from the keyboard ;)
VizGhar: 1 is not enough... beer (alcohol) has that effect of "brilliant ideas" and cofee has effect of "being able to work indeffinitely"
VizGhar: however Im allergic to cofee and don't drink :D
Astrobytes: I try to limit my intake
struct: I only drink it during contests
Cappefra: Right! I guess after a couple beers I might be more "elastic" or creative and end up coding better but 1. only if it doesn't require careful maths cause yeah no I'm definitely not better at maths drunk and 2. I feel like I wanna give my brain a break and just read reddit or something
struct: Had an exam during an hangover, did not go great
struct: Math
Astrobytes: Yes. You need an unclouded mind for many tasks
Cappefra: yeah alcohol is good for blues, not for speed metal
Astrobytes: hahaha, I never play anything too complex after alcohol, only blues :D
Astrobytes: so true
bpri: https://www.twitch.tv/cod3vening
Astrobytes: bpri: it's already in the stream notifications above and on discord
Astrobytes: ok, not on discord
bpri: ok sorry sorry !!!
jacek: :eyes:
jacek: oh my https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.10700
jacek: they write about The Unbounded (Best-First) Minimax and it sounds like jacekmax. what a rip off
DomiKo: wrrrr
struct: poor jacek
Cappefra: oooo I didn't know adding codingame to the title of the stream made it appear here
Cappefra: That's why I got so many viewers the other day!
jacek: ok, maybe they dont mention using it with uct
Cappefra: Or is it case sensitive?
TheIceMaster_945d: hello
struct: Im not sure if its case sensitive
TheIceMaster_945d: Hi
Cappefra: I'm pretty sure I spelled it with lower case g
Astrobytes: think it works either way
Astrobytes: don't quote me on that though
Astrobytes: You're still cutting-edge jacek, they haven't caught up with you just yet
struct: ok I give up on trying this pipe stuff
mzbear: what's the problem with pipes?
struct: I cant seem to find a way to write to another program cin
struct: using c++
mzbear: which platform?
struct: windows
mzbear: hmm, can't find my win32 code. anyway, it should be fairly straightforward
mzbear: after all, you can pass the stdin/stdout handles to processes you create
mzbear: so, you create two pipes
mzbear: they're like buffers with two ends, so you keep one for yourself and pass the other to the subprocess via the startupinfo
mzbear: CreatePipe, CreateProcessA
mzbear: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/procthread/creating-a-child-process-with-redirected-input-and-output ... ah, there
struct: Thanks Ill check it out
mzbear: i mean, you create two pipes, one for stdin, one for stdout ... and they both have read/write handles separately. that link has full code example
mzbear: it's a bit messy because it's lowlevel
struct: On the child process I can keep cin and cout right?
mzbear: yeah, cin and cout are bound to stdin/stdout, it'll work completely transparently
mzbear: only the parent process needs to do the messy stuff
mzbear: ... i was going to recommend checking github for how other people use those APIs, but the first three repositories i checked had incorrect code. ugh
struct: Yeah, I had trouble finding stuff about it
mzbear: stick to that microsoft's example code, it has all the details ironed down
struct: Also microsoft mentions text files, I can skip that part right?
mzbear: yeah, it's extra stuff for the example
mzbear: the important parts are CreateProcessA, CreatePipe, SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES, STARTUPINFO
mzbear: e.g. the SetHandleInformation is just for cleaniness, it's good practice to not leak unnecessary objects into child processes, but you can skip that
struct: Thanks for your help, first time doing this kind of stuff
mzbear: i did quite a bunch of windows programming 10 years ago. a lot has changed, but the win32 api underneath is still the same
mzbear: the posix apis are much simpler for this stuff
mzbear: the process creation model is so different too
struct: Also one more question
struct: So if I write to stdin, the read stdout. Do I need to close stdin pipe before reading?
mzbear: nah, both can be open, they're independent pipes
struct: Thanks
mzbear: for a good measure, you can create a pipe for stderr too, so you'll have three pairs of read/write handles to deal with :)
struct: Ill plan to have stderr too
struct: I just want to make it work first :D
mzbear: just test it with some simple known good .exe to use as your child process, don't launch cmd.exe or anything
mzbear: because there's another set of APIs for dealing with windows consoles, and cmd.exe uses those ... it's mostly compatible with pipes, but not 100%
mzbear: i'm a bit surprised i can't find any clean library for dealing with this. creating child processes is quite a common task, after all
RoboStac: boost::process ?
mzbear: oh hey, of course boost:: has one :D
mzbear: struct: https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_75_0/doc/html/boost_process/tutorial.html
mzbear: it has things like bp::opstream ... for managing the things. much much simpler, assuming you're okay with including boost in your project
struct: Nice I think it worked
struct: Thanks mzbear
struct: at least the stdout worked now I will test the stdin
struct: ok infinite loop on the writetopipe part
struct: bSuccess = WriteFile(g_hChildStd_IN_Wr, chBuf, dwRead, &dwWritten, NULL);
if (!bSuccess) break;
struct: if I change the if i change to if(bSuccess) break;
struct: it seems to work
struct: but i dont think microsoft would publish it bugged
mzbear: well, that's deliberately an infinite loop in microsoft's code
mzbear: it loops until the pipe is closed from the other end
struct: ah I see
mzbear: so don't switch that around ... just don't make a loop at all if you dont want a loop :)
struct: Also 1 more question, I seem to need to close child stdin pipe to be able to use the stdout, does this mean I need to keep opening and closing them inbetween?
mzbear: no, you're doing something wrong
mzbear: your reads/writes are blocking, i believe
mzbear: it might be a good idea to start writing an io loop around WaitForMultipleObjects
mzbear: also, WriteFileEx for async writes... ugh. you know what. this is probably going to take you quite a while :D
struct: if (!CloseHandle(g_hChildStd_IN_Wr))
Astrobytes: This is why I never got into Windows programming
mzbear: let me take a look into boost::process and its async api to see if it's any less painful
struct: This line closes the stdin right?
struct: from what I understand
mzbear: if you close that pipe, you wont be able to reopen it
struct: If I dont close it I cant go to the next :/
mzbear: but yes, that closes the write handle for stdin
mzbear: sure you can. why not?
mzbear: unless you want to terminate the child process entirely
struct: I tried to coment the line and it gets stuck
struct: It writes, then never reads
mzbear: trying to make code work without understanding what each API function does is a recipe for disaster, btw
mzbear: that's quite a lot of ground to cover if you've never done IO with win32 api, though
struct: Its just for a simple thing.
Astrobytes: Simple things in Win32 are not as simple as POSIX
Astrobytes: Especially if you're more familiar with the latter
mzbear: win32 just has a different flavor. very different flavor. i only abandoned the platform because microsoft started doing super scummy shit
struct: mzbear if I close the handle
struct: and then create it again
struct: ius it possible?
mzbear: not possible
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
mzbear: the pipe you gave the child is the pipe you gave the child
mzbear: even if you close your end, you can't change the other end
struct: ok i comented and it works now
struct: lol
mzbear: you THINK it works now
struct: Well its not stuck in an infinite loop now
struct: before it was getting stuck on readfrom pipep
Astrobytes: struct, have you gone through the usual intro to win32 programming stuff?
struct: no
Astrobytes: I would recommend it, just to get a feel for how things work, it's really its own thing
Astrobytes: mzbear would you agree?
struct: also if (!bSuccess) break; works again
struct: I dont know why
struct: I guess its magic
mzbear: if he only wants to get his task done and nothing else, i dont think he has motivation to read up on win32 basics :)
Astrobytes: Might make it easier but eh, there ya go
struct: yeah, i just wanted to get this done
struct: Maybe in the future ill check it
struct: but now I would like to finish STC for once
Astrobytes: you don't plan on... an actual UI or anything right
struct: I do
Astrobytes: *GUI
struct: im gonna use imgui
Astrobytes: ah right yeah, forgot about that
Astrobytes: will you have game visualisation?
struct: I want to make local referee, so I can tune stuff localy with gui
struct: Yes
Astrobytes: just openGL or SFML or something
Astrobytes: ?
struct: I dont know what its called
struct: but imgui can also draw shapes
struct: So Im gonna use that
struct: It supports opengl, directx...
Astrobytes: yeah, I mean, I would draw your stuff in openGL or whatever and use imgui as your GUI
struct: ah no
struct: Ill do everything in imgui
Astrobytes: that seems strange
mzbear: less new things to learn
struct: yeah mzbear is right again :p
mzbear: the more new technologies you're learning while working on a project, the more likely it is to fail
mzbear: opengl is quite a swamp to deal with, too. the pre-4.5 stateful APIs are error prone and horrible to get into, and guarantee your first few iterations of the rendering code are going to be messed up
mzbear: and since Apple will never support the new opengl apis officially, it's a troublesome thing if you want your code to be multiplatform one day
darkhorse64: You should read vulkan API doc, you will find out that OpenGL is really designed for noobs compared to it
mzbear: vulkan is super explicit about everything :D
darkhorse64: explicit as in "verbose", 3K LOC to draw a mere triangle
mzbear: 3k loc to setup things
Astrobytes: jeeze, openGL++
Astrobytes: *jeez
mzbear: i mean, this is great example: https://github.com/mackron/vkbind/blob/master/examples/01_Fundamentals/01_Fundamentals.c
mzbear: completely flat example how to use vulkan apis, without any architecture whatsoever
mzbear: so you can follow the RAW api without any distractions
Astrobytes: my point regarding imgui though, is that it's supposed to work with some kind of graphical renderer no? So what are you using to display it struct?
struct: ah directx
mzbear: while imgui requires a rendering backend, you can just copypaste that initialization from somewhere
struct: ^
struct: They provide examples
struct: I could use any of them tbh
Astrobytes: then you'll be drawing via directx then, this was my original question
mzbear: but he doesn't have to touch the DX apis :)
mzbear: and replacing the backend is a nobrainer
Astrobytes: Depends on what he wants to draw
Astrobytes: and yeah
mzbear: if he's feeling particularly fancy, he could even grab some rendering middleware such as bgfx and run imgui on top of that, to completely abstract out the underlying rendering api ... this looks fancy: https://github.com/pr0g/sdl-bgfx-imgui-starter
mzbear: https://github.com/pr0g/sdl-bgfx-imgui-starter/blob/main/main.cpp - fairly straightforward to use too
Astrobytes: I've used it with OpenGL and also with SFML (built on OpenGL)
Astrobytes: That one looks simple enough too
Astrobytes: didn't see bgfx before now mzbear
mzbear: i ran into it years ago, and it seems to have matured quite a bit more since then
mzbear: hell, minecraft has attribution for bgfx ... does bedrock edition use it?!
mzbear: i really like that they list the c++ libraries they used: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/attribution
mzbear: so you can google each of them to check them out :D
Astrobytes: not a game I've ever been into but yes, nice they credit where credit is due
Astrobytes: *give credit
mzbear: hmm did the chat glitch out
struct: What do you mean mzbear?
mzbear: the username list only shows moderators and me
struct: iirc it only shows the users that you can see messages from on chat
mzbear: i sent some private messages and wasn't sure if the person was online, but it seems he was since i got a reply. but he doesn't appear in the world chat user list
struct: and moderators
Astrobytes: yeh, that's normal
Astrobytes: not ideal
struct: Better than having page freeze on contests :D
Astrobytes: :D
LastRick: Interesting, i saw that earlier today. I thought it strange that it was nothing but mods and me on. Like I had snuck into a members only party
Astrobytes: trust me, the enormous list is much worse
Astrobytes: I think external clients show the full list?
struct: yeah, also for tabbing
Astrobytes: :+1:
struct: Now i must trust that my referee has no bugs :D
Astrobytes: You've not actually tested your referee despite doing all this runner stuff?
VizGhar: what game?
struct: I think i tested it, I just need to port it to be able to send inputs and such
struct: STC VizGhar
struct: The score it generates after every move is correct
struct: This was done by pressing "play my code" :D
struct: hundreds of times
MSmits: yay solver is almost fully functioning. Only one more thing. Check here:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517892423
MSmits: it says the score
struct: early game doesnt seem random anymore
struct: is this true?
MSmits: nope, still random
MSmits: it just avoids giving away boxes
MSmits: which is why it doesnt seem random
MSmits: I'm up to 2136 lines now
MSmits: But i will have to duplicate a part of the negamax to get the actual move out of it
MSmits: then i need an early game search as well. That's gonna be 3k total or so, might have to start minifying :)
MSmits: first lemme submit to check if i didnt add bugs ( = likely)
MSmits: yay, my prediction is correct: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517893025
struct: lol
struct: I was looking at yellow text
MSmits: no the message is white
MSmits: currently it doesnt solve if the endgame is still complex (with splits), so i need to fix that
MSmits: or at least, it does solve, but i cant get the move out, only the value
MSmits: i hate this about negamax
MSmits: it ruins the neatness of the code, to have a different function for depth = 0
Astrobytes: duplicate your negamax?
MSmits: yeah, to get the move
MSmits: you run 1 negamax function that also returns the move, by reference, and the deeper layers just return the value
MSmits: i dont want every layer to return moves, thats pointless
MSmits: maybe i am overthinking it and the compiler will take care of it
Astrobytes: you don't want ever layer to use the best move from the previous? Or am I not getting something
Astrobytes: *every
MSmits: no, what i mean is, technically negamax only return the value of the board right?
MSmits: it doesnt tell you which move is best
MSmits: its int Negamax ()
Astrobytes: well you can build that into it trivially
MSmits: but when you do, you get two different negamaxes
MSmits: the highest level needs to give you a move
MSmits: all the deeper ones dont, you dont care about them, only the value of their boards
MSmits: so generally i built a top level negamax which iterates over all moves and returns the best move and a different negamax that is called from the first one and only returns the value
struct: ok I think I finally understand this pipe thing more
MSmits: The thing is that this solver negamax is extremely complex, so i need to do a lot of work to duplicate it and avoid bugging
MSmits: it calls other functions too, in which moves are tried. It's a mess
Astrobytes: why not just make a little iteratively deepening loop that calls the negamax and returns the best move from each depth?
Astrobytes: well, via a pointer
MSmits: well thats what annoys me. Why do it from each depth
MSmits: you'd be doing it thousands of times
MSmits: i guess thats how everyone does it
MSmits: it's just annoying :)
Astrobytes: that's what ab pruning, aspiration windows etc are for
MSmits: you'll still be doing it thousands of times, instead of just 1 time
MSmits: at the root
Astrobytes: move ordering, blah blah
MSmits: move ordering is done by value
Astrobytes: well, I'm not coding your code so
MSmits: I'm just ranting :P
MSmits: I much prefer mcts
MSmits: maybe i'll use that for early game
MSmits: would be cool, both searches in one bot
Astrobytes: your best move from previous depth can be used in your move ordering
MSmits: yes, but you dont need to return the move
MSmits: you store the boardstate
MSmits: oh right, you put the move in the boardstate
MSmits: as some index
MSmits: I did that before, it's a bit different though
Astrobytes: Like I said, the day you stop questioning...
Astrobytes: :)
MSmits: right :)
MSmits: in this case a "move" is a complicated thing. It's basically one of those chains in the D&B graph
masknksnvsndvo: wassup nibba
Astrobytes: That's a little more than an individual move I guess yeah, you wanna be careful with that I think if your doing it like that
Astrobytes: *you're
Astrobytes: masknksnvsndvo: pardon?
Astrobytes: Anyway MSmits, I've had a long arduous day today, I shall see you tomorrow. Goodnight all
struct: gn
MSmits: gn Astrobytes
hchasens: What version of java does the site use?
hchasens: Trying to figure out which API i should be looking at
mzbear: 8 or 11, puzzle by puzzle basis afaik
ZarthaxX: hchasens https://www.codingame.com/faq
struct: hi ZarthaxX
jrke: Msmits your endgame values printing helped me detecting a bug - https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517905763 turn 73
MSmits: cool :)
MSmits: yeah i saw that game
MSmits: you handled the loop wrong
MSmits: my bot is now near 2400 lines
MSmits: tomorrow I will try to put in an early game search. Might take a while, if it even works
MSmits: otherwise I got no chance against nr 1
jrke: mine is still 416 lines
MSmits: yeah most of my code is the solver
MSmits: it's kinda cool though, i can solve most games in less than 1 ms halfway through
MSmits: i could actually run a minimax for the last few moves right before the end game
MSmits: with the endgame itself as the depth limit
MSmits: that way the last few lines could be placed perfectly
MSmits: i think it would help a little, but may not be enough to beat nr 1
MSmits: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-dots-and-boxes/msmits
MSmits: so weird
MSmits: why 15-0 Kovi? Earlier i pushed him to nr 2
jrke: even i didn't get that a small change gives me 100% winrate against kovi and few changes 100% loserate
MSmits: I think it has something to do with how the endgames are formed. If your style of play prevents complex endgames, then my solver doesnt help me much
MSmits: against kovi, games might get more complicated
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517905990
MSmits: look at this
MSmits: bunch of splits, pretty complex
MSmits: i am guessing your games are not often like that
jrke: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-dots-and-boxes/jrke mine winrates are more complicated
jrke: 0% against nieren and 100% against jbyepez lol
MSmits: btw, take a look at the kovi example i shared. He made his mistake at frame 79
MSmits: if you have a loop cnnected to a string (pan and panhandle), always do the handle first. He played inside the loop and then i took it all
jrke: he should have done that bottom right chain on turn 79 right?
MSmits: yes but i just saw a worse mistake in that game
MSmits: the chain at 70
MSmits: he took it fully
MSmits: he should have kept control
MSmits: (give last 2 to me)
jrke: yes
MSmits: btw solver doesnt always update
MSmits: it only updates when it had to actually solve
MSmits: so if the other guy makes a mistake, it may not register immediately
MSmits: as long as my bot doesnt need to think about the next move, it wont try
jrke: yes
MSmits: why waste calctime
jrke: because no use for that
MSmits: right
MSmits: this gamr vs remi:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/517905970
MSmits: so close
ZarthaxX: hi struct :*
MSmits: also a complex endgame
MSmits: he plays it well
jrke: hmm to complex
MSmits: but neither makes a mistake
MSmits: the game is decided in the first half :(
jrke: thats the reason he is first
MSmits: ye
MSmits: i should randomize my seed :P
MSmits: or i play the same random moves
MSmits: well... why bother, i will be trying a different bot anyway
MSmits: tomorrow.... sleep now
MSmits: gn!
struct: gn
jrke: gn have a good night
SupSon: can you do a bitboard for dots and boxes?
jrke: i am not aware of bitboards SupSon yet
struct: SupSon MSmits doe
struct: does*
struct: https://cg.spdns.eu/wiki/Chat:World/2020-12-20
struct: "MSmits: and that's with a really complex bitboard"
struct: He was talking about D&B chains
Nukelets: yikes
