Chat:World/2020-05-18

cegprakash: I've fixed that major bug

KnightMoves: come for the code, stay for the drama

cegprakash: top 20 hopes still alive

ZarthaxX: there are no tshirts tho

Icebox: wait what

Icebox: no shirts this contest?

ZarthaxX: check the contest description..

Icebox: why did I even start it then :D

ZarthaxX: :)

cegprakash: don't get too attracted to things

cegprakash: unless u are top 20

BenjaminUrquhart: ofc the code I spent the past 4 hours writing performs worse than what I submitted 2 days ago

cegprakash: haha

BenjaminUrquhart: how hard could this be

BenjaminUrquhart: aaa

dbdr: BenjaminUrquhart 4 hours? try 4 days...

eulerscheZahl: not a real try-harder

BenjaminUrquhart: lemme try something and ruin everything again

Cusumi: i hope all good luck guys

BenjaminUrquhart: my old code can even do this on occasion https://www.codingame.com/replay/467101838

thethiny: "this" winning against Lord?

thethiny: @eulerscheZahl is there a way to play out the game offline through the brutal tester logs?

thethiny: currently I have to hit Play then intercept the call and return my custom json

thethiny: that's because the webpage doesn't work offline

thethiny: gives network -1

cegprakash: clock is blinking

WINWINWIN: Yes, cegprakash top 30 yet?

BenjaminUrquhart: as expected, the thing broke everything

eulerscheZahl: i don't know, sorry

thethiny: np, thanks

WINWINWIN: Will this be made available as a multi immediately like Ocean of Code?

eulerscheZahl: probably today already

WINWINWIN: Nice! Would be most played after CSB :D

eulerscheZahl: Tron and Back to the Code have a lot of players too

WINWINWIN: 5K?

eulerscheZahl: yes

WINWINWIN: Wow, then this is only most played contest

eulerscheZahl: 5,786 CodinGamers in the Tron Battle arena

eulerscheZahl: 4,626 CodinGamers in the Back to the Code arena

eulerscheZahl: and what i don't understand: 2,702 CodinGamers in the Ultimate Tic-Tac-Toe arena

eulerscheZahl: that has never been a contest

WINWINWIN: Tic Tac toe wasn't a contest?

eulerscheZahl: nope

WINWINWIN: Maybe people just joined it as its tic tac toe :D

eulerscheZahl: was the first SDK game directly added to the multiplayer section. before everyone could upload their own

WINWINWIN: Oh, so it is the most popular community MP then?

eulerscheZahl: it was still made by codingame staff

eulerscheZahl: so not sure how to count it

BenjaminUrquhart: 3 and a half hours

BenjaminUrquhart: um

eulerscheZahl: if you don't count it, vindinium with about 300 players is the most popular

eulerscheZahl: there's a huge difference between 300 and 2.7k

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl can you run a game against me and give me some tips

thethiny: tip: Try to win

BenjaminUrquhart: thanks

Zenoscave: ^ this

WINWINWIN: Yes, community MPs are tougher as most are based on board games

eulerscheZahl: great tip

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467110420 you win

BenjaminUrquhart: oh kek

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467110556 now i win

BenjaminUrquhart: thanks euler for that genius move by you

eulerscheZahl: i'm timing out in the IDE

eulerscheZahl: arena has release mode, so not an issue

WINWINWIN: C# is prone to timeouts in IDE right?

eulerscheZahl: c# and rust

thethiny: what do you mean by release mode in arena?

BenjaminUrquhart: more optimizations

Zenoscave: NO pdb or debugging symbols

eulerscheZahl: you are about to pick up both super pellets on the left but then suddenly turn around

eulerscheZahl: wait, i mean right

eulerscheZahl: the other left

BenjaminUrquhart: internal pathing conflict it seems

BenjaminUrquhart: they think they're gonna collide

eulerscheZahl: 5 players is chaotic, hard to analyze

eulerscheZahl: another timeout

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467112126

eulerscheZahl: null 3 ms

eulerscheZahl: great idea

BenjaminUrquhart: :thinking:

BenjaminUrquhart: that's not supposed to happen but ok

BenjaminUrquhart: thanks

BenjaminUrquhart: let me try and fix those 2 things

eulerscheZahl: frame 16: why the scissors?

eulerscheZahl: you are not in danger with your paper. and you win't catch a speeding paper with a rusty scissors

thethiny: lol @benjaminuruqhart you're #418 I'm #419

eulerscheZahl: also frame 16, rock at bottom left: you speed 1 cell away from the dead end

eulerscheZahl: if you speed 1 turn later, you can use the speed more efficiently

cegprakash: last minute change: reducing my depth

BenjaminUrquhart: speed it nothing more than "spam when available"

cegprakash: I'm not happy with my simulations

BenjaminUrquhart: well thanks for your help, let's see how much I can get done

eulerscheZahl: and now tell me what i'm doing wrong

eulerscheZahl: except for IDE timeouts

Zenoscave: You're asking us mere mortals for help

Zenoscave: That's your mistake eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: i'm desperate

eulerscheZahl: i can see myself and top3 without scrolling

eulerscheZahl: but not there :(

Zenoscave: Send replay against me? don't have cgenhancer on this laptop

Zenoscave: I'll analyze

cegprakash: he'll wreck u though

cegprakash: :D

cegprakash: u sure?

Zenoscave: Fresh Eyes to see how he can wreck even more

Zenoscave: perhaps

BenjaminUrquhart: I think I found the pathing error

BenjaminUrquhart: classic off-by-one

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467115684

thethiny: guys

thethiny: if x returns true if x < 0?

BenjaminUrquhart: which language

thethiny: python

eulerscheZahl: if x != 0

BenjaminUrquhart: I think so

BenjaminUrquhart: cause bits are set

thethiny: oh damn

Zenoscave: eulerscheZahl do you do parity checking

thethiny: damnnnn

eulerscheZahl: parity?

eulerscheZahl: like before the real checksum was invented?

DollarAkshay: I think I might make it to legend

eulerscheZahl: speed on odd coords you mean?

DollarAkshay: Submitting Code now

eulerscheZahl: tested offline, was on par with my arena bot

Zenoscave: if (Target.IsDeadEnd() && && Target.Dist() % 2 != 0) SkipSpeed

EvModder: best of luck

Zenoscave: don't do odds. parity of dist works slightly better

Zenoscave: try that

eulerscheZahl: i think i have that

eulerscheZahl: did you see me not doing it?

Zenoscave: I think once

Zenoscave: not sur

eulerscheZahl: at least i do in direct range

eulerscheZahl: ok, let me try to extend that then...

Zenoscave: what range? <5 or < 10

eulerscheZahl: speed and next move with dist=1? => no speed

EvModder: ^ that optimizaton was causing an awful bug in my code

Zenoscave: I also saw this some.

cegprakash: my winrate is always between 50-60% so it's hard to say any bot I submit is good or bad before it cross at least 50%

EvModder: works now, but somehow i also broke my pellet heatmap

thethiny: wd benjamin

Zenoscave: Make them chase you and switch right before collision

EvModder: idk if i will get a good submit ready on time so i might just resubmit the code from last night that got to 10th

EvModder: although competition is going to be harder now =P

eulerscheZahl: legend bots do't chase

eulerscheZahl: only kill

EvModder: yes

EvModder: chasing is wasting

Zenoscave: right but if the kill is flawed or you have cooldown == 0 do they still try?

eulerscheZahl: no

Zenoscave: Ok then I've got nothing

EvModder: unless... min(my_speed - ur_speed, ur_ability_cooldown) <= dist

EvModder: then chasing makes sense ;)

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/replay/467075008

eulerscheZahl: i'm not happy with my spreading

thethiny: I fixed a value from x to x > 0

thethiny: now I win against myself by 30

eulerscheZahl: too many in the same area

eulerscheZahl: but not sure how to adjust this

eulerscheZahl: i mean without breaking everything else

Zenoscave: score exploration higher

eulerscheZahl: i don't score exploration

RustyCrown: how do you factor in the warp tunnels?

Zenoscave: Just harvest points in time range?

BenjaminUrquhart: I finally found the root of the turnarounds when getting the super pellets

BenjaminUrquhart: my function for assigning pellets to pacmen doesn't not conside enemy pacs correctly

cegprakash: I don't know if I should configure my depth based on no. of pellets in map

BenjaminUrquhart: consder*

BenjaminUrquhart: consider*

eulerscheZahl: and dist to pellets from final pos

cegprakash: for now my depth is based on game turn and pacs count

thethiny: my depth is based on alive pacs

BenjaminUrquhart: I don't have depth

BenjaminUrquhart: dab

thethiny: dab dab

DollarAkshay: Damn thats deep bro @BenjaminUrquhart

cegprakash: int customDepth[5] = { 20, 18, 16, 14, 12 };

BenjaminUrquhart: stop with your puns

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm too tired for this

thethiny: hahaha

cegprakash: that's what I use

cegprakash: 20 for 1 pac 12 for 5 pacs

eulerscheZahl: 6,6,6,5,4

cegprakash: my bot would do too worse for 6,6,6,5,4 :D :D

thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467122375 what are the odds??

cegprakash: that's also because I don't have enemy prediction

DollarAkshay: WTF

DollarAkshay: The boss timedout ?

DollarAkshay: LMAO

thethiny: exactly

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvu0yHoHy8

thethiny: lol

DollarAkshay: 1/(2^64) are teh odds

cegprakash: DollarAkshay happens

eulerscheZahl: hm, i don't increase depth when some of my players decease

DollarAkshay: Guys will the map width size always me odd number ?

thethiny: you totally should

DollarAkshay: be*

thethiny: @Dollar yes

thethiny: for symmetrical maps

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl I do it.. u can try

DollarAkshay: Okay I think I sohuld store enemy positions based on my position on Turn 0

eulerscheZahl: about to test it

thethiny: yeah dude

thethiny: it's always like this

thethiny: they're always on your -x -1

thethiny: if you're at 0 they're at width

thethiny: 1

thethiny: -1*

DollarAkshay: yeah ill try adding that

Csipcsirip: https://www.codingame.com/replay/467123887 saelyos @42

Csipcsirip: I mean 16

cegprakash: I'm getting a bid for 350$

cegprakash: :D

eulerscheZahl: screenshot? :D

Zenoscave: who sent it?

Icebox: ceg I'll take your entire bot stock for 690$

cegprakash: https://prnt.sc/siqkxo

Zenoscave: that is sad

BenjaminUrquhart: imagine paying someone to code for them to get internet points

Icebox: he's getting real life prizes

Icebox: from his uni

eulerscheZahl: there's an internal university contest

BenjaminUrquhart: ah

thethiny: another major bug fixed

thethiny: my "escape" routine was to go into enemy pac

eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/dca8cc11-0a68-4b3c-a801-1c4c6f5c5c59

eulerscheZahl: chat from yesterday

thethiny: my ratio against Lord went from 1:4 to 3:2

BenjaminUrquhart: :thinking:

BenjaminUrquhart: there are so many discord emotes I'd rather use to express myself but they don't exist here

RustyCrown: pepehands

StreetFighterLan123: pee pee

StreetFighterLan123: :eyeglasses:

BenjaminUrquhart: https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/702621598385176686.png?v=1

Zenoscave: I asked ceg if he'd give me his favorite method name for the high price of 1 cent

Zenoscave: TBD if he takes the offer

RustyCrown: idk you might be over paying

Zenoscave: probably going to say Main

BenjaminUrquhart: oh

BenjaminUrquhart: my

BenjaminUrquhart: gosh

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm so dumb

Zenoscave: Glad you can accept it BenjaminUrquhart ;)

Zenoscave: jkjk

BenjaminUrquhart: when assigning super pellets, I never checked if there was a wall...

BenjaminUrquhart: it was literally a fancy Manhattan

thethiny: hahahaha

DollarAkshay: Something weird is happening

DollarAkshay: My game_turn variable is getting incremented by 2

DollarAkshay: on the first turn

DollarAkshay: wtf

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl it doesn't turn around anymore https://www.codingame.com/replay/467132170

DollarAkshay: Wait a minute

DollarAkshay: Nevermind

eulerscheZahl: great BenjaminUrquhart

BenjaminUrquhart: of course, the tradeoff is it loses 8/10 of the initial matches

BenjaminUrquhart: cause why not

BenjaminUrquhart: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

cegprakash: this MangooTiere at #108 wrecking me

dbdr: let's see if i can climb back :)

eulerscheZahl: just let it be :fearful:

eulerscheZahl: arena: 67 Pacman: 79 draw: 40 smells like submit

dbdr: :D

dbdr: that 40 draw is highly suspicious, probably symmetrical matches

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl can you rerun the game with me now that it's submitted? seed=8692787439888939000

eulerscheZahl: with my new or old bot?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

eulerscheZahl: best answer :D

RustyCrown: god i want to sleep >_>

BenjaminUrquhart: same

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467135584

BenjaminUrquhart: still horrible end game

BenjaminUrquhart: I had a fix for that in my trashed code but I alread explained how well that went

BenjaminUrquhart: already*

DollarAkshay: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467137097

Can someone tell me how the Gold boss pacid:3 evades my paper pac without even seeing it ?

BenjaminUrquhart: he knows

DollarAkshay: Its almost like it has 6th sense

BenjaminUrquhart: e v e r y t h i n g

WINWINWIN: Who is the gold boss?

dbdr: DollarAkshay you can learn information without seeing a pac directly

eulerscheZahl: DollarAkshay you can check the score changes

eulerscheZahl: 0, then 2 for every opponent

eulerscheZahl: speed, double-move

DollarAkshay: Oh damn

eulerscheZahl: there's only one possible direction for such a double move

DollarAkshay: Never thought of that

eulerscheZahl: my bot does that too

DollarAkshay: Holy shit

DollarAkshay: LMAO I not reaching legend then

DollarAkshay: im*

WINWINWIN: I don't understand, how do you know the moving direction based on score change?

WINWINWIN: There are multiple directions to gain those pellets

BenjaminUrquhart: process of elimination

dbdr: not always

WINWINWIN: Hmm, so this is a tracking system to filter positions?

cegprakash: legend leaderboard is so unstable

cegprakash: lot of good bots in bottom

BenjaminUrquhart: come to gold

BenjaminUrquhart: talk about unstable

cegprakash: haha

cegprakash: no thanks

Zandy156: no kidding

BenjaminUrquhart: i might call it a night soon

BenjaminUrquhart: considering the amount of players and my placement, I think I'm pretty decent where I am

thethiny: I can beat the boss more, but I lose against my arena self more.

dbf: how long submit in legent takes to calculate now?

thethiny: What?

cegprakash: I think the problem is my seed in srand.. I'll revert my seed to old seed

DollarAkshay: use seed=69 for maximum rand luck

BenjaminUrquhart: I was about to meme about using rand but then I remembered that you GA everything

eulerscheZahl: dbf about 30min

dbf: eulerscheZahl thanks

DollarAkshay: @BenjaminUrquhart Nice Jebait

https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467145717

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay complete accident

DollarAkshay: My bot does no switching at all actually

DollarAkshay: Kinda sad

BenjaminUrquhart: there's a few edge cases in my pathfinding while speeding but it'll probably break my bot if I fix them

thethiny: that'ss what hapenning to me

thethiny: my bot performs bad when I'm fixing a huge bug

Zandy156: just make more bugs then

thethiny: that's what I did

thethiny: if True:

BenjaminUrquhart: so, here's my genius plan

BenjaminUrquhart: wait for this submit to finsh

BenjaminUrquhart: then wait for the people submitting below me to push me up

BenjaminUrquhart: not like it's enough for legend, but whatever

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny I've really passed you now

cegprakash: seriously? changing my srand seed took me to top 30

cegprakash: what is happening

DollarAkshay: @cegprakash Did you use 69 ?

cegprakash: I use 42

DollarAkshay: GG

cegprakash: the answer to the life the universe and everything

DollarAkshay: You are unstoppable now

thethiny: @BenjaminUruqhart yes

BenjaminUrquhart: epic typo

WINWINWIN: Cegprakash should the srand seed affect anything?

DollarAkshay: Naa just luck

cegprakash: 42 is so powerful

WINWINWIN: :D

BenjaminUrquhart: also 5k players

BenjaminUrquhart: almost*

WINWINWIN: 40 more

BenjaminUrquhart: you can tell how tired I am from how I type

eulerscheZahl: let's quickly create some fake accounts :D

WINWINWIN: :D

BenjaminUrquhart: what if I submit my smurf /s

eulerscheZahl: then you have 2 bots in the arena

BenjaminUrquhart: hence the /s

eulerscheZahl: and violate a rule that isn't checked anyways

eulerscheZahl: Neumann uses a smurf too

BenjaminUrquhart: banned

WINWINWIN: What is wrong with a smurf?

thethiny: new account

thethiny: for the same person

WINWINWIN: Yes, but why is it bad?

BenjaminUrquhart: 2 entries in a contest

BenjaminUrquhart: and you're only supposed to have 1

WINWINWIN: they are not creating multiple accs to dominate a leaderboard anyway

eulerscheZahl: some did have 2 high ranked bots in the past

eulerscheZahl: e.g. RockyMullet and LuckyMullet

eulerscheZahl: to see if version 1 is better than version 2

cegprakash: will all bots submit together or submit 1 by 1 in recalc?

BenjaminUrquhart: all together

eulerscheZahl: but if everyone does that, it's a mess

eulerscheZahl: but only top100

eulerscheZahl: min(100, legendSize)

Vadasz: Hmm, and is it legal to have multi acc for testing?

WINWINWIN: Oh, so resubmit is only for top 100 in legend?

BenjaminUrquhart: all I'm hearing is I'm not included

cegprakash: I'm scared to touch anything now on my bot

eulerscheZahl: 1 account per contest

cegprakash: even scared to resubmit same bot

eulerscheZahl: for multiplayer games they are less strict, still not appreciated

BenjaminUrquhart: I have smurfs in some multis for testing purposes

BenjaminUrquhart: um

BenjaminUrquhart: breakthrough and hypersonic

eulerscheZahl: valid reason to have multiple accounts: you create your own multiplayer game and need some bots in your private arena for testing

BenjaminUrquhart: which reminds me, I have to update email addresses

WINWINWIN: What happens if you submit as the contest ends, is the submit evaluated?

VicHofs: frame 52

BenjaminUrquhart: all pending submits are finished iirc

VicHofs: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467154138

VicHofs: pure bullshit?

DollarAkshay: @VicHofs seems like you moved only 1 square with speed

VicHofs: yep

VicHofs: 'xcept it doesn't when I replay in same conditions :upside_down:

DollarAkshay: @VicHofs your output says "MOVE 1 24 7 normal; (23, 7)"

DollarAkshay: Which sasy you moved only 1 unit

VicHofs: indeed

BenjaminUrquhart: Looks like I'm placing roughly 300th out of 5k players

BenjaminUrquhart: have fun, I need sleep

VicHofs: that's pretty good tho lol

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm not making the same mistake as UTG

BenjaminUrquhart: still salty

Gonny: haha I remember that

BenjaminUrquhart: you saw nothing

Gonny: didn't you multiply your rank by 3 or something?

DollarAkshay: I dont think we sould even consider people who are in wood 1 and 2

DollarAkshay: Probably just clikced submit on the default code and left

DollarAkshay: That would make me 200 out of 4k players

BenjaminUrquhart: Gonny I submitted the code in my IDE and I forgot it had untested code in it

Gonny: I am very annoyed. My bot from 2 days ago is much better than my new bot. So much sleep lost for nothing...

BenjaminUrquhart: literally same

Gonny: worse is I don't evenknow why, and I'm sure it's the same for you

Gonny: drives me nuts

VicHofs: I got to 2 in my league at one point

BenjaminUrquhart: only thing I changed this entire time was fixing a clearly broken pathfinding

VicHofs: 1000 rn

VicHofs: -yay-

Cappefra: Same Gonny, and it doesn't make sense to me

BenjaminUrquhart: I was top 10 for all of 5 minutes last week

Gonny: well at least we're not alone in that situation :)

DollarAkshay: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467154668 LMAO

thethiny: The boss is timing out a lot with me

DollarAkshay: @thethiny You are the Choose one :crown:

DollarAkshay: chosen*

thethiny: XD

DollarAkshay: Gues If I implement a switch function I might go to legend

DollarAkshay: Currently #100 in gold

thethiny: nice

WINWINWIN: Wow

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny https://www.codingame.com/replay/467149394

BenjaminUrquhart: did I already send you that, idk

Peudoki: switch has low value

Gonny: fwiw almost no one uses switch in legend, apart maybe for a guaranteed kill

Peudoki: guaranteed kill and when my pac is very afraid are the only times I use it

DollarAkshay: @BenjaminUrquhart LMAo your bot is scared of Emoji's

DollarAkshay: XD

DollarAkshay: Taht taunt from @thethiny

BenjaminUrquhart: hush

Cappefra: holy shit this submit is moving around like crazy

thethiny: I play astronomia if I'm gonna die

Cappefra: just went 520 -> 300 -> 50 -> 200

Cappefra: I shouldn't watch it, it will give me false hopes

DollarAkshay: You gotta pray to RNGesus

cegprakash: same here Cappefra

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm only moving up

BenjaminUrquhart: and I don't want to touch it

BenjaminUrquhart: not even actively submitting anymore

Peudoki: right now legend is also people spam submitting and praying to RNGesus

DollarAkshay: I went all the way to Gold #80 and dropping slowly XD

thethiny: I'm gonna submit

thethiny: :(

BenjaminUrquhart: 76 people are current submitting

thethiny: I beat my arena code

BenjaminUrquhart: cool boost my rank kthx

eulerscheZahl: 77

thethiny: everytime

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl it's called a race condition

BenjaminUrquhart: no stop, I'm supposed to be going up, not down

dbdr: nice start eulerscheZahl

RustyCrown: i no longer have any idea what my code is doing lol

Peudoki: lol who writes code they understand, that would be weak

WINWINWIN: Exactly Peudoki

Peudoki: mine is now 1200 lines of a clusterfuck of random ideas

eulerscheZahl: i can top that with 1500 lines mess

WINWINWIN: Mine is 223 lines

WINWINWIN: :D

RustyCrown: oh my god lol

RustyCrown: how do you have so many lines

Peudoki: well just a lot of time spent for me

RustyCrown: i had like 800 at most i think

WINWINWIN: They are in legend RustyCrown :)

BenjaminUrquhart: I have 887, but that's nothing compared to my broken submit

BenjaminUrquhart: which just barely topped 1k

KnightMoves: I have 2695 lines 😅

BenjaminUrquhart: yeah ok

BenjaminUrquhart: :knife:

Peudoki: btw are you KnightMoves from the TCEC chat?

BenjaminUrquhart: MadKnight gave up?

WINWINWIN: Yes, you are probably the longest KnightMoves

RustyCrown: so your telling me more lines = higher rating?

KnightMoves: @Peudoki yeah i am

Peudoki: exactly

BenjaminUrquhart: no RustyCrown

WINWINWIN: Madknight is #637

RustyCrown: in that case brb

WINWINWIN: So Just under Silver Boss

Peudoki: nice meeting you here too

BenjaminUrquhart: :thinking: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467156489

DollarAkshay: Im doing a really simple change

BenjaminUrquhart: there's also this monstrosity that displays my horrible endgame search https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/467157135

DollarAkshay: I will change my pac type if it is stuck in the same position for over 5 turns

DollarAkshay: Lets see how this goes

BenjaminUrquhart: I've had that for the past forever

DollarAkshay: Currently Gold #110

SabertheLost: Wow, I found a small bug in my code :) If there is corridor from spanning the entire length of the board and no walls at the ends. My code that check what the pacman can see just keeps looping: )

Peudoki: ^^

Peudoki: not the biggest issue

SabertheLost: well it times out:)

BenjaminUrquhart: I have a seed to test for that

Peudoki: yeah but I assume maps like that are rare

DollarAkshay: @SabertheLost I remember thinking about this edge case

DollarAkshay: So i iterated only BOARD_WIDTH times

BenjaminUrquhart: fixing it make little difference for me in terms of rank, it was just annoying to time out at seemingly random times

BenjaminUrquhart: I just kept going until I came across a location that I already visited

Peudoki: I iterate max(width,height) times because I can warp both ways xD

BenjaminUrquhart: while(this.read(pair) && visible.add(pair)) {

               visible.add(pair);
               <add +-1 in a direction>
           }

KnightMoves: what do you mean? you can't warp vertically

Peudoki: true, I just didn't realise that when I wrote that code

BenjaminUrquhart: my code can wrap vertically

Peudoki: yeah mine as well

Peudoki: they put all walls in row zero all the time so it doesn't matter

eulerscheZahl: my final cheese isn't working :cry:

BenjaminUrquhart: you didn't change your avatar to cheese

BenjaminUrquhart: that's why

eulerscheZahl: idea: if opponent starts with rock+paper, i'll do paper+paper for kill immunity

eulerscheZahl: but the switch costs too many turns already

eulerscheZahl: and now my rank is base-jumping

Peudoki: thought of that too eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: not worth it according to my local test

Csipcsirip: I still don't switch at all :

ChooJeremy: I think that might be worth it but not on the first round, large pallets too important

eulerscheZahl: also tried variations like: only if no more large pellets

kovi: euler- tried that yesterday

eulerscheZahl: and also not if more than 50% of small one harvested

eulerscheZahl: with no success i guess, kovi

kovi: yeah. switching is too costly

eulerscheZahl: that was supposed to be my final cheese, planning this for a week already

Peudoki: I never actually tried it, took the lazy route

Peudoki: if someone makes it work then I look into it ^^

kovi: i tried 4 pac switch as well

Csipcsirip: funny thing that only psyho does. dont use speed immediately with some of his pacs, to confuse opponents detection

kovi: and have speed advantage later

kovi: tried that it didnt work

kovi: (generally)

Csipcsirip: didnt have time to try out ideas like that. could spend few more weeks on this :D

Peudoki: jokes on them, I have no enemy detection anyway

eulerscheZahl: wtf

eulerscheZahl: you are in top10

BenjaminUrquhart: imagine knowing where the enemy is

eulerscheZahl: tracking the opponent allows you to avoid a lot of unnecessary paths

Peudoki: it's not that I have nothing, but nothing so fine that would get confused by off cycle speeding

Peudoki: pretty much just keeping track of the whole circle they can possibly be in

Peudoki: with no smarts to it

eulerscheZahl: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: i have that too, keeping up to 150 possible locations with history

eulerscheZahl: excluding some as i explore: there's a pellet? then the opponent wasn't there

eulerscheZahl: and i detect if all opponents speed at the same time

Peudoki: I should refine it based on the fact when I see pellets missing clearly eaten by the opponent

Peudoki: but never got to that

kovi: still no submit from karliso

Gonny: not before 9:45

ShannonNorris97: I last submitted like 10 hours ago. Is it worth submitting again even though I haven't changed anything?

Csipcsirip: ofc. submitting is fun

thethiny: hahahaha

Gonny: what league are you in?

Vadasz: :D

thethiny: you will lose your score

ShannonNorris97: I'm only in silver

Gonny: def not

ShannonNorris97: Ah I'll leave it then, wasn't sure if it'd knock me down or boost it, thanks guys

dbf: also when you submit servers are slower =>your opponents are nervous => you have more chances to win

Gonny: lolol

dbf: so don't give up and re-submit

Gonny: on CG there's a bonus on having submited a while ago because you get pushed up by other people

BenjaminUrquhart: thethinyyou can do it

thethiny: I'm timing out all of a sudden

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny

BenjaminUrquhart: oh rip

thethiny: whenever people submit

thethiny: I time out

Gonny: BenjaminUrquhart I thought you were going to bed

Gonny: are you in bed?

BenjaminUrquhart: does it look like I keep my word

BenjaminUrquhart: that's not a good thing mind you

Gonny: remember last time! You were already going to bed and kept coding in bed

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm literally just here starting at the chat

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm not touching the code

Gonny: haha ok

BenjaminUrquhart: you can check my last submit

dbf: BenjaminUrquhart why you are not touching a code if you still can submit?

BenjaminUrquhart: because it's almost 3 in the morning

thethiny: hahahaha

Peudoki: I also coded from bed, fell asleep, when I woke up I was sure it is over as the clock showed 12 something

Peudoki: came to check my rank and magically it was 7am instead

BenjaminUrquhart: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/80ffc2db-b123-45f2-a9d3-de88bdfbd0b1

solaimanope: The clock shows 1 hour 17 minute left

Peudoki: so I had time for a last submit

BenjaminUrquhart: Last submit 5/18/20 1:20 AM

solaimanope: So, 40 minutes before the clock?

eulerscheZahl: there are timezones...

Peudoki: where?

BenjaminUrquhart: EST here

Peudoki: CEST here

eulerscheZahl: CEST here

BenjaminUrquhart: k

BenjaminUrquhart: it's like actually day for you

solaimanope: In my timezone, clock shows it ends at 2PM

BenjaminUrquhart: 4AM

eulerscheZahl: wait, we are in the same timezone Peudoki? 8:45am?

eulerscheZahl: i thought it's 7:45 for you

Peudoki: I'm in Hungary right now because of the virus and stuff

Peudoki: I'm a uni student, and you can do it from home right now

eulerscheZahl: ah. i remember the hungary part. just wasn't aware that you moved backhome

Peudoki: yeah I don't think I mentioned it before

BenjaminUrquhart: top 10 is all C++

BenjaminUrquhart: :thinking:

Peudoki: only said that I'm Hungarian and that this site thinks I'm in the UK based on the uni I gave and that I kind of live there now

eulerscheZahl: i see java

BenjaminUrquhart: I overlooked that

eulerscheZahl: you can change your location

BenjaminUrquhart: :upside_down:

Peudoki: I'm not sure which one is proper to give in my situation

Gonny: yeah tough challenge for Pythons

Gonny: less than 10 in the top 100 I think

Peudoki: I kind of use Hungary/UK pretty randomly in these situations

eulerscheZahl: choose the right tool depending on the problem

Peudoki: so when I got UK by default I just rolled with it

BenjaminUrquhart: exactly 10 in top 100 Gonny

kovi: i expect all hungarians loose to my bot to make me top3

BenjaminUrquhart: solid plan

thethiny: all these bug fixes caused me timeout now

thethiny: RIP

Gonny: haha

BenjaminUrquhart: wait hold up

WINWINWIN: When the final rerun happens, is the code in IDE or last submit used?

eulerscheZahl: i wish you luck for top3 kovi

Peudoki: I'm losing to Csipcsirip all the time I think

BenjaminUrquhart: R4N4R4M4 OBJECTIVE C

Peudoki: at least I used to

eulerscheZahl: now that i accepted i won't make it

Peudoki: that's my Hungarian contribution

kovi: thx euler, considering ooc...well i hope for best

Csipcsirip: yes I have 100% winrate against you Peudoki

eulerscheZahl: you definitely deserve to be lucky after OoC

Gonny: what happened to Kovi in ooc?

eulerscheZahl: top4 was on par

eulerscheZahl: guess who was 1st before the rerun and 4th after

Gonny: oh damn

BenjaminUrquhart: so uh

BenjaminUrquhart: the only Objective-C submission is in legend

Peudoki: is there a rerun?

eulerscheZahl: :100:

BenjaminUrquhart: they flexing

BenjaminUrquhart: yes, top 100 get resubmitted

eulerscheZahl: top100 players get about 1000 matches each

eulerscheZahl: to stabilize the ranking

Peudoki: nice

dbf: it is sad that only top-100, not the full legend :(

eulerscheZahl: you start at your current position, no full restart

Peudoki: that's good, my AI likes strong opponents

dbf: ah, even no full restart

KnightMoves: so if you are in the top 100 at the end of the time, you are guaranteed to get a top 100 placement?

kovi: this is a game where most top likes top

eulerscheZahl: for BotG i broke my rank 40 bot on purpose

kovi: at least i had trouble in 20-40 range last days

Peudoki: makes sense kovi

eulerscheZahl: time check to only play strong in the rerun, start low

eulerscheZahl: climbed from 98 to 73 i think

kovi: lol

eulerscheZahl: the rerun isn't enough to push you to your real rank but definitely helps

dbf: why they can't do a full rerun like when league is created...

eulerscheZahl: and that's how i sacrificed a good contest rank for science

pde-bakk: how long have you legends been doing these contests/ working in this field, cus its looking like you are some serious veterans

dbf: I can help them to trunkate table 'rank' if required

Peudoki: my first contest here

dbf: truncate

Peudoki: it is a ton of fun

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay :eyes: https://www.codingame.com/replay/467207307

eulerscheZahl: i'm competing here for almost 4 years

eulerscheZahl: and i studied comp sci and work as a programmer

BenjaminUrquhart: this marks my 1st year anniversary of competing

Peudoki: I study maths

eulerscheZahl: but this is different to the day to day job

BenjaminUrquhart: still a student

Peudoki: no work yet

Gonny: oh wow I did not know that

DollarAkshay: @BenjaminUrquhart haha yeah i just saw that replay

eulerscheZahl: but let's get to the most important question: does that cat on your pic live in UK or Hungary?

Gonny: so you do get an advantage being 20 rather than 50 at 4am

Peudoki: Hungary

cegprakash: bottom 10 in legend are very strong bots

BenjaminUrquhart: I got freaking CoIF as my first contest

eulerscheZahl: nice game

Peudoki: I rent in the UK and no pets allowed

eulerscheZahl: perfect information, sufficient depth, simple rules

Peudoki: also I probably wouldn't want one there moving all the time and stuff

eulerscheZahl: i see

Gonny: 2nd serious contest for me after UTG

eulerscheZahl: where i finished 1 above Gonny :imp:

Peudoki: it's my third year living there and moved each year so far

Gonny: haha indeed

Gonny: doing the exact same thing!

Gonny: only slightly better apparenty

Gonny: but we literally had the same core everything

Peudoki: damn my bot started losing like crazy

BenjaminUrquhart: same

Peudoki: bye bye top 10

eulerscheZahl: i wasn't really motivated for UTG. somehow the game wasn't my cup of tea

BenjaminUrquhart: and I didn't touch it

eulerscheZahl: but for this contest i was really trying

BenjaminUrquhart: it's almost like people are submitting better code

Gonny: I'm still waiting for Karliso

Peudoki: lost 10 out of last 11 games

Peudoki: he is also too tired like me

Gonny: Kovi is waiting for him more than me though

Peudoki: Karliso?

eulerscheZahl: submitted 5min before the contest ended last time. and won

karliso: still coding...

Gonny: hadn't seen him in the whole contest up to that point

thethiny: woah nice

Gonny: haha

karliso: noidea where i land

WINWINWIN: Awesome karliso

eulerscheZahl: we have no idea either, let's see :popcorn:

kovi: we have no idea where any of us land

eulerscheZahl: good point

thethiny: I fixed my bugs and yet again I perform bad

thethiny: I swear the more bugs I make the better I perform

kovi: except romka who is consistently top3

thethiny: cuz bugs ruin my pathfinding, which means my pathfinding is bad

Peudoki: to resubmit or not to resubmit

Peudoki: that is the question

eulerscheZahl: bb | !bb

Gonny: this game is too random

Peudoki: :D

WINWINWIN: Peudoki Does it make a difference for you? the top 100 has a rerun anyway

DollarAkshay: GOTTA PRAY TO RNGEsus

Peudoki: I heard I start from my position though

Peudoki: no idea how much it matters honestly

Peudoki: as I said my first competition here

eulerscheZahl: at the beginning you will quickly go up and down 5-10 ranks

solaimanope: For Gold, the current rank will be the final right?

Gonny: so if you resumbit at 3:59, chances are at 4 you're not top 100 yet, does that mean you get screwed?

eulerscheZahl: then it slowly stabilizes

Peudoki: oh okay

BenjaminUrquhart: solaimanope once all pending submits are done, yes

eulerscheZahl: but your starting position affects your opponents

eulerscheZahl: you fight your rank +-5 i think

Gonny: or do they start the rerun after all submits are done?

Gonny: so at like 4:15 or whatever it is

eulerscheZahl: after all submits are done + promotions

Peudoki: too risky to try resubmit for me I guess

cegprakash: how many games does each bot gets

Gonny: ah so you actually can submit at 3:59

eulerscheZahl: expect the rerun to start 1h after the official end of the contest

cegprakash: will it be ladder based or random opponents?

eulerscheZahl: your first rerun cegprakash?

eulerscheZahl: thank god they don't do that best of 5 on rerun anymore

cegprakash: I never been awake for rerun

eulerscheZahl: oh, it's in the night for you?

dbf: in highloadcup they had rerun for several days

dbf: as a result - a lot of people have lost interest :)

eulerscheZahl: topcoder takes weeks

Gonny: weeks is a little over the top

eulerscheZahl: for only 80 participants

jrke: anybody suggestion to pass silver plz

BenjaminUrquhart: win more games

DollarAkshay: Avoid All bots

sas4eka: jrke collect pellets as hard as you can

DollarAkshay: use speed ASAP

DollarAkshay: ignore switching

BenjaminUrquhart: also Gonny I left my coding setup, so now I can't code anymore or be tempted to

jrke: i am using speed and switch both

DollarAkshay: I was able to get out of silver with simple dfs heuristic

Gonny: good call BenjaminUrquhart

eulerscheZahl: i'm desperately changing magic constats

DollarAkshay: and JUST SPEED

BenjaminUrquhart: I A M S P E E D

BenjaminUrquhart: Automaton200 tell this man how to win

BenjaminUrquhart: sam

BenjaminUrquhart: same

BenjaminUrquhart: Automaton2000 tell this man how to win

Automaton2000: but i just like the challenge, but if i had a similar issue

solaimanope: I am finishing one more contest in Gold. Legend is too tough for me :(

kovi: karliso submit

DollarAkshay: @solaimanope Same :(

jrke: hey i am using speed and switch then why my rank

BenjaminUrquhart: the only multi I think I have legend in is CSB

karliso: need to test some versions no idea

BenjaminUrquhart: jrke try using only speed

jrke: K

DollarAkshay: @jrke are you avoiding enemy bots ?

jrke: hey if ability cooldown is 0 then i check if switch is needed then i switch else speed

DollarAkshay: You dont need switch if you are avoiding enemy bots

morning_cloud: looks like silver depends more on optimal pellet eating than any other strategy... Any tips on optimising pellet eating for higher score :sweat_smile:

BenjaminUrquhart: mad dash for super pellets

DollarAkshay: @morning_cloud What stratergy are you using now ?

eulerscheZahl: even legend is about eating pellets as fast as you can

BenjaminUrquhart: assume every space has a pellet until proven otherwise

eulerscheZahl: no fighting

BenjaminUrquhart: euler I really want to remove switching from my bot now

BenjaminUrquhart: good thing I can't code

eulerscheZahl: :D

DollarAkshay: @admin WHen is next contest ? :P

kovi: actually i tried few hours ago

eulerscheZahl: i guess opponents in legend behave differently

kovi: but it didnt make it to the top

morning_cloud: @DollarAkshay first go for capsules, then the nearest pellet visible, I also keep track of previous pellets seen by any of my bots so they would go to them if no visible pellets are around

eulerscheZahl: we don't attack if it's not a certain kill. so just having cooldown=0 is enough to defend

dbdr: bottom legen also behaves differently from top legend

DollarAkshay: @morning_cloud You know DFS ?

BenjaminUrquhart: I assume every empty space has a pellet until proven wrong

morning_cloud: yes

eulerscheZahl: i lose a lot against the bottom

eulerscheZahl: always making it hard to climb

DollarAkshay: Try running a DFS of depth 10 to find the rount which yeids the highest score

dbdr: same

kovi: except...when you learn enemy behaviour

Csipcsirip: same

kovi: which i didnt had time to implement

BenjaminUrquhart: ceg already said bottom legend is underrated

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay I'm still using closest pellet :P

dbdr: that's not an easy one kovi. and the game is not very long to learn, if there are few opportunities in each

kovi: for halite...i have added learning

DollarAkshay: @BenjaminUrquhart You what ? :scream:

morning_cloud: @dollarAkshay ah right that's a good one :thumbsup:

BenjaminUrquhart: closest pellet gang

kovi: true. too few interactions

jrke: is BFS needed for silver

BenjaminUrquhart: some sort of search is needed

BenjaminUrquhart: oh MadKnight arrived in gold

BenjaminUrquhart: and idk where struct went

dbdr: had 4 games running at once in my submit

BenjaminUrquhart: is that a good thing

dbdr: I guess it's busy time :D

DollarAkshay: Gold is so weird. I loose to bots bwtween #450-#512 but do so well against #200-#300

DollarAkshay: Weird

BenjaminUrquhart: 139 computing

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay leaderboards have been unstable since bronze

jrke: when is next contest :thinking:

BenjaminUrquhart: at most 6 months from now

jrke: what!!!!!

tomatoes: same code +/- 200 positions fluctuations :rolling_eyes:

jrke: 6 months

BenjaminUrquhart: welcome to the club tomatoes

jrke: tomatoes same here

DollarAkshay: @tomatoes Yeah I understand you

eulerscheZahl: join legend. with less than 200 players you can't fluctuate that much :)

BenjaminUrquhart: hush

jrke: is there any other website with currently ongoing contest or coming soon

Cappefra: thanks for the tip euler

NickStahl: Can we expect some blogs/forum posts from various people explaining how they did things after the contest?

I'm pretty motivated to learn something proper than doing heuristics and it helps to hear some other peoples thought processes.

BenjaminUrquhart: where's that site with all the contest listings

DollarAkshay: I have a 16-4 streak agaisnt bots raked ~300 but i loose more than 50% againt bottom gold bots

Cappefra: :angry:

tomatoes: you may try old contests here

DollarAkshay: The solution is to submit your code and leave it

BenjaminUrquhart: NickStahl yes

BenjaminUrquhart: there should be a forum feedback thread created shortly after the contest ends

BenjaminUrquhart: that's where postmortems go

NickStahl: BenjaminUrquhart tx. Will look into it.

DollarAkshay: 10 losses in a row

NickStahl: Writing spaghetti and not even getting too gold is getting old :)

DollarAkshay: yaaayyyyy

BenjaminUrquhart: so 10 people joined for the last hour of the contest

jrke: 36 min left

zarif98sjs: How will the final rank be calculated ?

eulerscheZahl: for gold and below: all pending submits will finish, then it's final

jrke: there will be mega run for top 100 of nearly 1000 matches

eulerscheZahl: for top100 in legend: about 1000 extra matches per player to stabilize

Cappefra: wait what

Cappefra: I thought I had time to submit another one

DollarAkshay: Winning streak lets gooooooo

Cappefra: this one sucks

BenjaminUrquhart: who wants to promote in csb

BenjaminUrquhart: you technically do Cappefra

eulerscheZahl: you can still promote after the contest ends

Peudoki: you still have more than half an hour

eulerscheZahl: if your pending submit is good enough

Cappefra: but you're talking about when the timer ends right? not like right now

Peudoki: exactly

eulerscheZahl: and later (probably today already) the game will return to the multiplayer section. no prizes, infinite time

Cappefra: ok ok

Peudoki: we're all here for those sweet prizes obviously

BenjaminUrquhart: not me

BenjaminUrquhart: clearly

Peudoki: not because it's fun

jrke: lets do voting who will win the contest

eulerscheZahl: my only motivation. i hate keyboards

Peudoki: I vote for kovi, he was the leader for so long

Csipcsirip: how do you type then ?

DollarAkshay: Oh an ew leaderboard is out

eulerscheZahl: but i want that curved monitor to look at powerpoint presentations

BenjaminUrquhart: speech to text

DollarAkshay: Top schools and companies

jrke: curved monitor to kovi or euler

thethiny: submit time

thethiny: I'm not gonna recover from this

BenjaminUrquhart: nope

BenjaminUrquhart: don't be like me

NickStahl: eulerscheZahl What kind of programming do you do at Siemens?

thethiny: I am beating Lord Betrayus 5-1

thethiny: and myself 4-1

BenjaminUrquhart: means nothing

thethiny: why

eulerscheZahl: internal software

thethiny: lord betrayus keeps timing out

thethiny: why

BenjaminUrquhart: I can beat the boss and myself regularly, but I can't beat the stupid people in 500th place

Cappefra: same as Benjamin

thethiny: lol

Csipcsirip: do you know the hungarian company evosoft ?

Nerchio: same guys same :p

thethiny: I'm gonna battle #2 then

NickStahl: web or no-web?

thethiny: and see

eulerscheZahl: from analysis of electric streamlines for safety evaluation to a web project to administrate a list of materials

kovi: csipcsirip, are you from BME?

BenjaminUrquhart: ok why is my rank dropping

thethiny: I can beat him easily

BenjaminUrquhart: smh

NickStahl: ah both :)

thethiny: submitted

Csipcsirip: nah, Széchenyi

eulerscheZahl: and boring stuff like "i have data in excel, want to feed into another program that only understands XML"

BenjaminUrquhart: so you have chosen... death

kovi: too bad, we are all from different uni

Peudoki: I'm from ELTE

eulerscheZahl: mostly windows desktop

thethiny: hahahahaahahahahaha worst idea ever

Peudoki: well from LSE now, but ELTE before that

aCat: with the submit?

thethiny: I lost all the matches

NickStahl: winforms? :)

aCat: :/

eulerscheZahl: win forms, wpf

DollarAkshay: The top 10 people in legend should form a fake company to get topp 100 company award lol

thethiny: hahahaha

BenjaminUrquhart: but like

BenjaminUrquhart: no

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm pretty sure that's banned

aCat: 1st company all top 100 ;]

BenjaminUrquhart: on a side note, my school isn't even on the leaderboard cause I'm the only one out of 3 people talking it seriously :P

aCat: but we got our uni fair :D

DollarAkshay: All gold boys in one company ?

DollarAkshay: Gold .inc

NickStahl: I guess I understand the need to look at powerpoint presentations then... probably from managers :)

DollarAkshay: XD

thethiny: my old submit wins against #500 people my new submit wins against #100 people

thethiny: why is the world like this

BenjaminUrquhart: because

eulerscheZahl: as you guys liked my stats on the last contest ( https://eulerschezahl.github.io/OceanOfCode/ooc_stats.html ), here's one for this contest: https://imgur.com/a/9BZx2wE

thethiny: now I'm 571

Peudoki: this game is 100% random

thethiny: I was 400

thethiny: brb cry in the corner

Peudoki: we're just better at pretending to be good at it

BenjaminUrquhart: there's still 2.5k people in bronze

BenjaminUrquhart: why is bronze always cursed

SabertheLost: if this game was 100% random then you would not stay within 100 spots of your current position

aCat: euler the image is great

DollarAkshay: @eulerscheZahl :clap_tone1::clap_tone1::clap_tone1::clap_tone1::clap_tone1::clap_tone1:

WINWINWIN: :D

thethiny: @BenjaminUruqhart that's when the final rules are set

thethiny: pretty much Silver is nothing

NickStahl: :)

dbdr: eulerscheZahl lol. I was wondering if you had found any interesting stats

NickStahl: I should have seen that chart a few days ago, now it's to late to change my code :D

Cappefra: there, resubmitting my old buggy boss which does better everytime

aCat: he had :D

eulerscheZahl: no, i'm just trolling :D

Peudoki: eulerscheZahl I need you to claim 8th place from me

thethiny: @everyone do not submit anymore

thethiny: you'll slowly die inside

Peudoki: I'll hold on to your 7th

BenjaminUrquhart: watch me /s

dbdr: I considered making stats if people rather switch or counter, but never got to it. did not seem critical

thethiny: your loss tbh

BenjaminUrquhart: 174 computing

BenjaminUrquhart: madlads

eulerscheZahl: aagreed. didn't seem worth to collect stats

thethiny: 173 computing in total

eulerscheZahl: but pb4 asked for some winrates for his alternative ranking

MSmits: wow what happened in the night, went from 30-40 to 83

eulerscheZahl: good thing: i only have to look at last battles, not download all of them

MSmits: I just resubmitted, hopefully not making it worse

BenjaminUrquhart: leaderboard happened

BenjaminUrquhart: oh you probably made it worse

thethiny: I keep saying #2 in my last battles

thethiny: seeing*

dbdr: MSmits same code?

MSmits: yes

dbdr: why?

eulerscheZahl: MSmits i was down to 20 too. pulled down, now back to 7 with little modifications

thethiny: @Euler after the tournament is over can you share your code please

MSmits: dbdr better start point

BenjaminUrquhart: why would he do that

thethiny: so we can learn

dbdr: or worse

BenjaminUrquhart: but

BenjaminUrquhart: copy-paste

eulerscheZahl: i would like to share my code. sadly there are some copycats

MSmits: yes

MSmits: but 83 is waaaaaayy lower than anywhere i got before

MSmits: but yeah, might be worse

MSmits: gamble

thethiny: Will the same tournament repeat?

eulerscheZahl: so there are some players willing to learn. and others claiming a top rank without even looking at it

thethiny: or they never do?

Peudoki: I can share my code so people learn how not to code

BenjaminUrquhart: they don't repeat

dbdr: sure, worth it MSmits. it seems you did not invest that much into this one anyways

thethiny: then what's wrong with sharing code then, I don't seem to understand

Cappefra: it'd be cool if the submit history kept track of the end-positioning

MSmits: I did until around wednesday

Cappefra: I hope I resubmitted the right one

Adnmaster: aaaa 23 min left!!

DollarAkshay: Can top 100 in gold please resubmit ? Thanks

MSmits: everythng stopped working after monday

MSmits: i mostly failed though, it's not like i didnt try

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay just get the boss to resubmit

BenjaminUrquhart: easy

thethiny: lmao

thethiny: I can't believe all my bug fixes were for nothing

thethiny: who knew bugs make things work

BenjaminUrquhart: that happens every contest

BenjaminUrquhart: every

BenjaminUrquhart: time

dbdr: MSmits what did you try to improve?

thethiny: today morning I was like I won't touch this

thethiny: now I did and look at my go down :(

thethiny: @Lanfeust you need to resubmit

thethiny: you may win

MSmits: after monday, mostly predicting opponents, avoiding dead ends, hardcoding supperpellet targeting and some smaller things

dbdr: I also failed to improve search. I went back to tracking, but only in the last hours

zarif98sjs: How often does this type of challenge happen in here ?

MSmits: at least twice a year

MSmits: at most 5 i think

BenjaminUrquhart: in other words, not often enough

MSmits: often enough fo rme

thethiny: what is coder strikes back btw?

MSmits: ex-contest multiplayer arena open all year

BenjaminUrquhart: the onboarding for multis

dbdr: the nice thing with tracking is, if you deduct true information, it is almost sure to help

MSmits: like other arenas

MSmits: I did improve tracking

dbdr: for search, it's much more uncertain what will work or not

dbdr: and harder to reason about

MSmits: I wrote a function that calculates the mandatory cells travelled between the last position of an opponent pac and the new position

MSmits: it takes into account all the pellets that were seen on that path (and thus not travelled) and all the places the pac was not seen on specific turns

dbdr: I have that too, also supporting split paths

dbdr: but only if they went straight enough

BenjaminUrquhart: I just get the shortest path between opponent and previous position and remove pellets

MSmits: yes

BenjaminUrquhart: split paths are arbitrary though and I don't take into account how long they were gone fore

MSmits: dbdr did you also do backwards elimination for pellets

BenjaminUrquhart: for*

dbdr: why do you mean by that?

Adnmaster: is it allowed to use neural networks and train our pac to play?

MSmits: so if you see a pellet on turn 30, you know it was alive on turn 20 and an opponent cant have passed through it on turn 20

BenjaminUrquhart: Adnmaster yes

dbdr: it's on my todo list :D

MSmits: ah, thats one of the things that i did

BenjaminUrquhart: keep in mind there are no NN libraries available so you'll have to roll your own

dbdr: nice

MSmits: the thing is, i never saw improvement form it

MSmits: and that was true for anything i wrote

MSmits: You lose motivation

MSmits: I did test and it worked

MSmits: btw, rank 39 now at 30%

dbdr: you search using MC right?

MSmits: yes, the search is the one thing thats good about my bot

MSmits: it lacks too many heuristic stuff to deal with RPS and superpellets though

Gonny: MSmits I've been doing the exact same thing

MSmits: exact like what?

Gonny: keep coming up with super smart ways to get more info but it just seems to be useless

MSmits: ahh ok yes

dbdr: I removed my specialized superpellet rusher to let the search find them

dbdr: was better by deleting code :)

MSmits: both ways seemed to work equally well dbdr

MSmits: hardcoding and let search find them

MSmits: i think my hardcoding was just bad

MSmits: i just let them go for closest superpellet

MSmits: way too simple

dbdr: it was bettere for me because my rusher was ignoring things like enemies, or better path to get there

Gonny: yeah I don't have a super pallet allocator either

dbdr: it was very early legacy code

Gonny: I just hope they are close enough to be in my depth, which is not too great

BenjaminUrquhart: dbdr my rusher only finds the closest super pellets, my search does all the heavy lifting

MSmits: I could get my depth up real high and still find great paths, provided my opponent doesnt move

MSmits: depth 12 easily... search was very strong

MSmits: but without opponent prediction its useless

dbdr: i search depth 15

MSmits: wow nice

DollarAkshay: Yeah same here

MSmits: wait

DollarAkshay: 15 on python

MSmits: when you say depth 15 you mean 15 cells?

MSmits: or 15 turns?

DollarAkshay: 15 cells

thethiny: I accidentally pressed submit again

Gonny: same

thethiny: kill me

MSmits: I could easily search 12 turns

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny you're doomed

MSmits: that includes speed

BenjaminUrquhart: 12 minutes left

dbdr: hm, depends on which version. but for the current one, 15 cells

thethiny: yeah...

BenjaminUrquhart: looks like I'm landing just above 300

MSmits: ah then mine could go deeper, but as i said, its pointless, because opponent will stroll in and ruin your path

LunaBread: is there any redo functionality in the ide

BenjaminUrquhart: LunaBread define redo

DollarAkshay: @thethiny For you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4n1h1uig6E

DollarAkshay: :P

chokudai: I need more time! X(

dbdr: well, my search includes the opponent

LunaBread: I CRTL Z some stuff and now I want to redo it

thethiny: 😂😂

BenjaminUrquhart: shift-ctrl-z

MSmits: mine doesnt, well I floodfilled him and adjusted score

BenjaminUrquhart: standard

thethiny: @Doju i', mext tp ypi

MSmits: if an opponent could get somewhere before me, the pellet would be worth less

ChooJeremy: I thought ctrl-y is the standard?

dbdr: ok, that's what I mean too

BenjaminUrquhart: chokudai we all need more time

ChooJeremy: for redo

BenjaminUrquhart: I mean

Gonny: MSmits I have that too but only for the first few turns

BenjaminUrquhart: works for me across multiple platforms

dbdr: I did try really simulating opponents, with some interesting results, but finally never switched to it

Gonny: I mean next few turns

pde-bakk: do i have to resubmit or will it happen automatically? Also I made some small anti-timeout changes but my score is currently computing, can I just click Submit again now?

Gonny: did not really see a difference tbh

Gonny: like most of the things I added

MSmits: Gonny its hard to say what way works best... i never saw a difference from it either

BenjaminUrquhart: pde-bakk you can submit whenever before contest ends

MSmits: dbdr my live version does have real opponent prediction

MSmits: it guesses where opponents can go with some assumptions

pde-bakk: will scores automatically be recalculated at the end?

MSmits: so i can avoid getting killed mostly

dbdr: yay 4/10 HU flags in top 10 right now :flag_hu:

MSmits: but its not very good and i still die a lot

BenjaminUrquhart: pde-bakk top 100 get recomputations

pde-bakk: ah cool thanks dude

thethiny: recomputations for what?

BenjaminUrquhart: everyone else is frozen once their submits end (if any)

DollarAkshay: Imagine being top 5 in GOLD

MSmits: seems my proper rank is 35-55

MSmits: so resubmit from 83 was a good idea

MSmits: someone chainsubmitted and pulled me down last night i think

aCat: I'm top 5 in gold ;p

aCat: but won't dare to resubmit :P

BenjaminUrquhart: we had 3 people promote to gold

BenjaminUrquhart: cool

Cappefra: maybe to eliminate some of the randomness, the ranking algorithm should take account of the points difference rather than just a win-lose

dbdr: wait until the rerun for your real rank MSmits. could be even better ;)

RoboStac: Cappefra - that'd be much more random

thethiny: my new submit looking good wut

DollarAkshay: chants: " RESUBMIT...RESUBMIT...RESUBMIT...RESUBMIT..."

thethiny: what happens if im computing and the time isn't up?

BenjaminUrquhart: welp, my rank got decimated

BenjaminUrquhart: reee

MSmits: I'm hoping for <50 but it's ok. I'm just glad it's over. Not blaming the game or creators btw. Just did not have much success.

thethiny: then it becomes up

BenjaminUrquhart: it finishes

dbdr: aCat why not? at least you'd get a last change ;)

Cappefra: @RoboStac you think? most time you lose against a weak bot it doesn't destroy you, it just wins by a slight margin

thethiny: you mean it continues or halts

BenjaminUrquhart: continues

thethiny: okay cool

aCat: I'm afraid I can go much lower

dbdr: does it matter much though?

MSmits: anyway, i have some work to do. Busy day. all the stuff I postponed due to contest :)

aCat: but I don't know what strategy is better

dbdr: cost/benefit analysis time

MSmits: ttyl

DollarAkshay: The boss is actually 28.49 and #2 in gold is 27.21 ... a whole point away

Nerchio: oh some people fed the boss so hard

Nerchio: he was like 26.5 yesterday

aCat: I'm rather hoping for push

AntiSquid: the boss was 26 only lol

DollarAkshay: @aCat Nice rank 2 gold

aCat: yep

aCat: :D

MoMaT: aCat, you're so close, but so far...

aCat: pray

AntiSquid: people mindlessly submitting because of the RNG lottery

dbdr: other top gold ppl please resub to give acat a push :)

thethiny: 😂😂😂

MoMaT: VilBoub was your chance but he is loosing momentum...

BenjaminUrquhart: stop submitting, you're knocking me down smh

dbdr: entropy is your friend

DollarAkshay: Bretrayed by Lord Betrayus

aCat: yep

aCat: pleaaaase

BenjaminUrquhart: 5 minutes

BenjaminUrquhart: better make the most of it

aCat: this cat is very nice and helpful to you all

aCat: :P

DollarAkshay: Last 5 minutes guys

Peudoki: 4

F0lio: is it enough for a new push?

MoMaT: OK, wait aCat, solaimanope is trying now.

aCat: oh no

BenjaminUrquhart: F0lio go ahread

F0lio: I mean this last 4mins

JohnCM: haha just did a resubmit

aCat: not him

DollarAkshay: RNGjesus is super strong in the lst 5 minutes...RESUBMIT now or .....

JohnCM: XD, nothing to lose anyway

ChooJeremy: I should have starting benchmarking with cgbenchmark earlier

BenjaminUrquhart: you can submit all the way until the end

ChooJeremy: who knew it would take so long lol

aCat: probably the only one in top I got more loses than wins :P

F0lio: Hhhh Xd

RavenKZP: @aCat ii'm with you :)

Chkoupinator: I give up

Zaphus: is the final ranking where you are when the clock hits 0, or does it continue to run for some time to settle things down?

BenjaminUrquhart: it continues

Chkoupinator: been trying to fix this error for eons

RoboStac: yeah, timer just stops you submitting code / accessing the ide

RoboStac: positions won't be final for a few hours after that

BenjaminUrquhart: ok who wants to submit in CSB really quick and promote the entire bronze league

F0lio: CSB?

Gonny: ouh Karliso submited!

Zaphus: I made a minor change an hour ago, jumped from 450th to 195th in Gold - but I suspect that is more due to others resubmitting, the change wasn't that great!

solaimanope: What's CSB?

BenjaminUrquhart: coders strike back

BenjaminUrquhart: Zaphus same here

BenjaminUrquhart: except my last submit was 2 hours ago

MoMaT: nothing better than last minute submission drama...

DollarAkshay: Why are we talking about CSB?

karliso: Gonny I submitted 3 times already.

Zaphus: I suspect my change is worse, but it's too late now :-)

Adnmaster: as i know all the bot programming games come after a contest, and others are allowed to play it again, is this gonna be like it?

jrke: its a min now

thethiny: I know my change is better but I don't see it

DollarAkshay: 60secondssss........

thethiny: 60

BenjaminUrquhart: DollarAkshay because CSB is a contest's worst enemy

JohnCM: woohoo exciting

DollarAkshay: 50

Gonny: oh haha didn't see karliso

thethiny: 50

jrke: 50 sec

jrke: 45

aCat: magic push?

thethiny: 40

jrke: 40

DollarAkshay: The time to fix bugs is now

aCat: I will be good cat from now on, I promise

DollarAkshay: JK JK

Illedan: Change random param and push :D

BenjaminUrquhart: MAKE MORE BUGS

thethiny: 30

jrke: ;)

Adnmaster: 30

AntiSquid: lol this is too random

thethiny: 20

NickStahl: GL on re-run for all top100 legends!

jrke: 20

DollarAkshay: 15

BenjaminUrquhart: quick someone crash gold boss

jrke: 15

aCat: sola probably legend

Cappefra: I feel this is gonna be the wildest re-run ever, if the randomness is even close to the submitting one

thethiny: 10

karliso: Yeah, I think I do reasonably well against top players.. but I can't get there.

DollarAkshay: 9

jrke: 10

DollarAkshay: 8

dbdr: nice Illedan :D

DollarAkshay: 7

jrke: 9

jrke: 8

BenjaminUrquhart: 5

BenjaminUrquhart: 4

Adnmaster: 5

BenjaminUrquhart: 3

ChooJeremy: 2

Illedan: :P

WaRiOrOfCoDe: 1

thethiny: 0

jrke: 1

BenjaminUrquhart: 1

Adnmaster: 0

BenjaminUrquhart: nice

aCat: -1

AntiSquid: mass promo on gold

mlomb: gg all!

jrke: stop

Nerchio: the site exploded

aCat: -2

Lastone: GG

eulerscheZahl: we can't all be lucky NickStahl. when A is lucky and gets puched above B, then B is unlucky

BenjaminUrquhart: -3

BenjaminUrquhart: -4

BenjaminUrquhart: -5

Quidome: gg all

thethiny: resubmit time for top 100

thethiny: good luck

Gonny: what happens if I click that submit button now?

Adnmaster: good game to everybody

Gonny: oh it kicked me out

BenjaminUrquhart: Gonny error

thethiny: hey I was watching

DollarAkshay: RIP

JohnCM: gg

ToshiTuringMachine: hey i didnt save

Gonny: alright bed time, good luck everyone!

BenjaminUrquhart: 189 computing

Cappefra: so what's the time estimate for the leaderboard?

eulerscheZahl: error 404

BenjaminUrquhart: few hours

AntiSquid: fall challenge

DollarAkshay: RIP CPU's

thethiny: my Compete tab shows (1)

Durkin: woot woot, glad to have done it, glad that it's over xD

thethiny: but I can't click on it

DollarAkshay: Calsh of Code guys ? XD

thethiny: ohhhhhhh

thethiny: new contest

Adnmaster: will it compute again, or will the current leaderboard be accepted?

BenjaminUrquhart: site died

thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/contests/fall-challenge-2020

Adnmaster: aaand, the other competition...

thethiny: fall challenge 2020

Adnmaster: where can we see the results?

solaimanope: how to see the Gold boss's current score?

ToshiTuringMachine: end of the year woooot?

dbdr: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard

dbdr: it's not final yet

Illedan: 189 in submit :D

DollarAkshay: Its not final for top 100

DollarAkshay: Rest all is final i think

BenjaminUrquhart: aaaaaaand signups are broken

dbdr: no because of submits in progress

dbf: can anyone share link to leatherboard please?

RoboStac: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard

eulerscheZahl: look 5 messages above

BenjaminUrquhart: scroll up

dbdr: just above dbf

WaRiOrOfCoDe: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard/global

Nerchio: so many people in legend submited :P

eulerscheZahl: whatever: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard

dbf: thanks

jrke: hey new fall challenge

BenjaminUrquhart: "5 CodinGamers have registered to this contest"

Durkin: Wonder what the next contest will be, hope to god no fog

BenjaminUrquhart: inb4 the entire game is fog

drykberg: god damn it... got to bronze last night, placed 2012, then worked whole morning to implement abilities half-heartedly, clicked submit 5min before end, and was placed 2227

jrke: 16 registered

DollarAkshay: dbf you are in legend league XD

Quidome: registerd for fall challenge :D

DollarAkshay: Why are you asking for leader board

thethiny: inb4 Euler spams the new contest

Durkin: Its the reverse engineering puzzle in contest form benjamin

solaimanope: Will someone qualify for legend still?

eulerscheZahl: END OF THE YEAR 2020 TO BE CONFIRMED

RoboStac: they can do

BenjaminUrquhart: Durkin no

solaimanope: if he beats the gold boss?

dbf: what is a gold boss score?

eulerscheZahl: that's months away :(

thethiny: :(

Adnmaster: i hope this contest will be optimization

AntiSquid: that's fine

AntiSquid: need a proper break

DollarAkshay: it was 38.5 when i last saw it

dbdr: time to catch up on multis eulerscheZahl

AntiSquid: two contests back to back like that and hidden info :/

eulerscheZahl: i'm indeed missing some now

DollarAkshay: What multi's are we doing guys ?

tobk: bah, lost 50 ranks in the last half hour...

BenjaminUrquhart: um

eulerscheZahl: but i don't have the same motivation as for contests

AntiSquid: i have a long list of to do multis

JohnCM: next contest is end of year

JohnCM: haha

JohnCM: quite fun this one

dbf: eulerscheZahl, try miniraic once it is announced

Chkoupinator: I feel like commiting sudoku tbh

BenjaminUrquhart: what multi should I do

eulerscheZahl: on my list already dbf

Chkoupinator: I spent the last 20 minutes trying to fix a dumb bug

Cappefra: the re-run after all submits are computed is only for the top 100?

thethiny: how do we know our scores in the competition?

Chkoupinator: and I couldn't submit my new version

solaimanope: Is there any way to see Gold boss's current score? Seems like I am on the second rank in gold

eulerscheZahl: last one was fun. even if i wasn't happy about their recalc at the end

Cappefra: so basically the gold league leaderboard will be fixed in like 10 minutes from now?

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny you'll get them soon in the completed tab under compete

BenjaminUrquhart: Cappefra basically

eulerscheZahl: planned round robin, screwed up and played random matches. way less than for a full round robin

BenjaminUrquhart: unless someone promotes in CSB

Cappefra: lol what does csb have to do with anything?

Nerchio: solaimanope boss has like 28.5 pts? :D

tobk: my last submits yesterday evening took ~30 minutes, but yes, fixed soon

AntiSquid: is strategy and feedback thread up already?

Cappefra: is that a meme or something? I see it mentioned so often

thethiny: @BenjaminUruqhart mention me again, the previous one didn't turn red

thethiny: I wanna see

DollarAkshay: I think the first 10 people who registed fro Fall 2020 shoudl get a prize :P

BenjaminUrquhart: because there's tens of thousands of players on hte leaderboard

solaimanope: Nerchio I have 27.5. It's a longs shot, but I want to keep hope.

AntiSquid: true DollarAkshay :p

eulerscheZahl: when someone submits in CSB and pushes down the boss, there's like 500 promotions at once

eulerscheZahl: slowing down the whole website

thethiny: hahahaha

RoboStac: solaimanope - you can see boss on http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/solaimanope

Cappefra: oh ok hahahaha

AntiSquid: someone quickly do a CSB submit

Cappefra: that's good trolling

thethiny: 568/4976

thethiny: my rank

thethiny: 😢

BenjaminUrquhart: 283/4976

Cappefra: is your submit over thethiny?

DollarAkshay: Imagine betting Rank 404 with PHP

thethiny: I don't know @Capperfra

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm still being pushed around though

thethiny: it was at 8% when it kicked us out

DollarAkshay: getting*

Cappefra: oh then no way

BenjaminUrquhart: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard/global?column=SCORE&value=INPROGRESS

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113

Cappefra: you're at 68% thethiny

eulerscheZahl: share your strategies there is you want

thethiny: okay

thethiny: thanks

eulerscheZahl: random gif https://imgur.com/a/2hGeE8b

Cappefra: I'm at 87% still hoping for a tiny push forward

solaimanope: RoboStac I can't load the address

AntiSquid: maybe yolo submit wasn't such a good idea :thinking:

BenjaminUrquhart: Magus and Illedan already replying

eulerscheZahl: magus already hitting enter

Cappefra: idk Antisquid, if you're there at 27% chances are you're gonna end up top or mid-gold

eulerscheZahl: he's always one of the first to answer

Cappefra: which you already were, right?

Magus: it's not like i'll make a very long PM when i'm just 35th

AntiSquid: well it was 90th in gold this morning Cappefra :D

DollarAkshay: Well atleast I am #3 in India

Cappefra: oh :/

AntiSquid: i lose about 1k - 2k CP if i fail submit

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm top for my school cause I'm the only one that actually participated

DollarAkshay: Was too busy playing chess instead of concentrating on improving my botr

eulerscheZahl: "I didn’t find any good solution to handle the fog of war. So my code just don’t handle it. If an opponent pac is not in my inputs, it does not exist for my code." wow

BenjaminUrquhart: I mean

MoMaT: Nerchio, gold boss is at 28,13. it will be though, but not impossible!

DollarAkshay: @eulerscheZahl who said that ?

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm pretty sure most people did that

eulerscheZahl: magus on the forum

thethiny: yes I saw lol

RoboStac: eulerscheZahl - I do that too

DollarAkshay: And he made it to legend ? :O

eulerscheZahl: tracking is essential to remove pellets

m01: is it possible to get hold of my code after the competition has ended?

eulerscheZahl: you can avoid useless paths

DollarAkshay: WTf @RoboStac you are top 10 without tracking enemies ?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

DollarAkshay: MONSTER

Magus: i never find a working solution

Magus: everything i tried was worse

eulerscheZahl: you don't need the perfect solution

solaimanope: what's gold boss score now?

AntiSquid: anyone tried OOC style tracking?

DollarAkshay: @solaimanope 38.3

eulerscheZahl: but in some cases you can tell the opponent position with 100% accuracy

Magus: but the beamsearch works fine for farming ;D

eulerscheZahl: i do that too. but less depth

RoboStac: interesting how you did beamsearches for each move getting deeper, I didn't think of that

eulerscheZahl: and running twice with reverse order of my pacmen

Cappefra: honestly I'm baffled, I implemented tracking, whenever I see an opponent for the second time I assign every pellet on its last path a 0.1 score (cause most times I can't be 100% sure of the path it took)

Cappefra: I treat last known positions that aren't older than 3 turns as if there was still an enemy there to avoid escaping behind a corner and then coming back to die

Cappefra: and all that stuff made my bot DO WORSE

solaimanope: So, my submission has ended 27.58 in GOLD

eulerscheZahl: sounds like you are getting too shy that way

thethiny: 577 is my final rank

NovaHorizon: Nicely done, solaimanope

thethiny: oh people still computing below me

thethiny: RIP

DollarAkshay: @solaimanope yeah you are #2 in gold

Quidome: gold submits not finished yet

DollarAkshay: Just below boss

Cappefra: I killed a bunch more and died a bunch less but apparently the exploring got bad because of it

NovaHorizon: How do you know if yours is still being computed?

Quidome: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard/global?column=LEAGUE&value=ALL

DollarAkshay: You can see it in leaderboard

eulerscheZahl: red circle for pending submits

DollarAkshay: Ther will be a circle next to rating

Uljahn: sort by score:computing

Nerchio: im glad this one is over lol

eulerscheZahl: my rank goes skydiving again :cry:

ClosetAI: No contest until fall, this could mean 3 total in 2020

eulerscheZahl: thibaud already announced that CG will host less contests

eulerscheZahl: and no more community contests

unixmonster: can you still play that thing in like a practice mode?

Cappefra: does anyone know what's objective-C performance in relation to C++?

DollarAkshay: @unixmonster After a day or two yes

solaimanope: next contest on which month?

eulerscheZahl: yes unixmonster. the game will return to the multiplayer section soon. probably today already

Cappefra: I might go objective-c next contest

eulerscheZahl: date for next contest isn't decided yet

DollarAkshay: @solaimanope People were saying its near the end of the year

unixmonster: gotcha.

unixmonster: Thanks!

eulerscheZahl: next AI contest will probably be mini RAIC

eulerscheZahl: on aicups.ru

eulerscheZahl: it's all russian but google translate works surprisingly well

DollarAkshay: Nice

DollarAkshay: When is it ?

eulerscheZahl: and they allow international competitors too

MSmits: ooc got thrown in unplanned. Companies pay CG to organize contests that the community can sometimes join. There's a chance we'll be able to join earlier. Just come in every once in a while

MSmits: and play a cool boardgame while you're here

eulerscheZahl: not announced. i expect it in 2 months maybe

NovaHorizon: mini RAIC?

eulerscheZahl: or create your own contest and suggest it to CG

eulerscheZahl: mini raic: https://aicups.ru/

unixmonster: also... is there a way to have multiple files?

DollarAkshay: On CG ? Nope

eulerscheZahl: and a contest match: https://aicups.ru/session/661598/

Cappefra: Has CG ever explored the idea of pay-wall contests? I'd pay something to join one if that meant having more of them

eulerscheZahl: click here: https://prnt.sc/sityp0

eulerscheZahl: there are private contests. hackathons for companies

Nerchio: eh its one of those games euler :p

eulerscheZahl: but most of the time they are less interesting than official contests. this pacman game was a unique idea. hackathons are often (not always) variations of existing games

GlitchyByte: This was a pretty awesome competition.

MindControler: Will Spring Challenge legend league codes be resubmitted?

eulerscheZahl: final leaderbaord will probably be copied to the multiplayer section directly

eulerscheZahl: no full resubmit, just a copy

jrke: when and where we can see final leaderboard

jrke: its my contest first here

Nerchio: java temporary #1

Nerchio: impressive

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard

Cappefra: it's almost final for you jrke. The final recalculation is only for the top100

jrke: K

jrke: thanks

semera: game is over, can somebody share "movement resolution" code? My code was either crazy slow or there was some issue in my simulation. Collisions of several pacs was unclear for me how to evaluate it...

SemChumboPT: damm I was so bad at this spring contest :-(

Durkin: hah! paper.io contest from the russian one, yeah I'll definitely bite- thats sounding like a blast

Cappefra: there's only one person still computing in silver and one in gold

Cappefra: after that it's all about the legend guys

AntiSquid: oh 85th gold in the end, better than this morning

AntiSquid: still 201st is bad overall :D

thethiny: why can't we play previous contests?

thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/contests/detective-pikaptcha

AntiSquid: you can

thethiny: how

BenjaminUrquhart: they're puzzles now

Cappefra: we can but you have to look for them in the right section

BenjaminUrquhart: that one is a solo puzzle

Cappefra: type detective pikaptcha in the search section and you'll find it

BenjaminUrquhart: also I have a bad relationship with that game please no

AntiSquid: thethiny look at the top of the CG website and find the search bar, type in the title of the game you are looking for (contest title in this case) and search

Cappefra: I had fun with the quidditch one

thethiny: I found it now as episodes

thethiny: thans

thethiny: thanks

Cappefra: it was so much easier than ooc or this one though. I made gold in 2 hours there

WINWINWIN: I never made Gold -_-

jrke: hey same here

AntiSquid: nice table Illedan :p

eulerscheZahl: Illedan where did you get that CG sticker?

karliso: Is it just me .. or the competition level was super high this time?

eulerscheZahl: i felt the same karliso. strong competitors

AntiSquid: CG sends those stickers if you host local codinghub for their contests eulerscheZahl

AntiSquid: and some other advertising stuff

Magus: you can also have some of these sticker if you won a contest :D

AntiSquid: competition was high but also randomness on the ladder

Magus: i got some stickers when i won fantastic bits

eulerscheZahl: well, that's some tough conditions :D

AntiSquid: so hard to assess correctly the strength of others

Illedan: I got it from streaming eulerscheZahl

Illedan: Do you want 1?

Illedan: I have many

eulerscheZahl: nah

AntiSquid: i still have some too

AntiSquid: hard to find enough people to give them to

eulerscheZahl: shipping cost would exceed the sticker cost a lot :D

eulerscheZahl: and i'm not a sticker guy

AntiSquid: you would be a recycling recipient, doing my bit to save the planet

Marchete: congrats to the winners!

AntiSquid: Marchete ?!

AntiSquid: why didn't you participate

eulerscheZahl: Marchete!

eulerscheZahl: haven't seen you for a while

MattSOrme: be interesting to read the postmortems

Illedan: Hi Marchete! Did you fix all your C# bots as they broke C#? :P

jrke: after a long time going to improve my csb legend bot :)

AntiSquid: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113/10 MattSOrme

Marchete: broken again?

Marchete: man :D

wlesavo: rerun

Marchete: I was completely out for weeks

eulerscheZahl: we have .net core now

AntiSquid: completely out ?

eulerscheZahl: so your mono runtime optim isn't working

Marchete: noice, net core is powerful

AntiSquid: stuck on a cruise ship Marchete ?

Illedan: Mono.Unix.Native.Stdlib.system doesn't work Marchete

eulerscheZahl: and release mode for c# submits

eulerscheZahl: debug mode for the IDE

eulerscheZahl: i'm crashing like dbdr :D

Marchete: I mean .net core have a lot of optims

Marchete: so you wont need Mono.Unix.Native.Stdlib.system

Illedan: True, but most of my bots do now crash

Marchete: I imagine

eulerscheZahl: release mode! no need for runtime optims anymore :)

Marchete: I was at quarantine, but not on the mood to code anything

kovi: gl everyone

eulerscheZahl: it started

Marchete: like ... zero lines, just coding at work because I need to

Marchete: ahh no

Marchete: that wasn't the real recalc?

Marchete: it starts now?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Illedan: Starts now

Illedan: contest ended 30 min ago :P

Marchete: sorry for saying congrats

Marchete: euler, prepare to go down as usual :D

Marchete: I saw you 1st some days ago

eulerscheZahl: i was hoping for top10 :(

eulerscheZahl: yeah, 1st on saturday

eulerscheZahl: long ago, i'm a has been

eulerscheZahl: and the cow is overrated i think

eulerscheZahl: ah, going down already

BALEK: C# environment will be .net core soon ?

eulerscheZahl: C# is .net core already

eulerscheZahl: they changed that directly before the contest

Marchete: you know, most people have had more time for this contest

Skril: good luck to all :-)

Marchete: btw recurs_e?

eulerscheZahl: is relocating and has no time

Marchete: ah

eulerscheZahl: maybe no motivation either, dunno

BALEK: oh nice, the FAQ is not updated yet

MattSOrme: BenjaminUrquhart your strat for colliding forgot the best one. Stubborn! just keep pushing the grid either they give up, or you both go a pac down XD

BenjaminUrquhart: k let me add that then

jrke: this was easier than OOC but it doesn't matter because the level of coders was so high

Marchete: I think I don't have many C# bots fortunately

eulerscheZahl: my OOC is broken

AntiSquid: i think there were simply more people jrke

eulerscheZahl: using system.drawing to debug images tehre

eulerscheZahl: would have to remove that

BenjaminUrquhart: MattSOrme added

eulerscheZahl: falling already, i might not even be the first toad :/

thethiny: I just got the achievement submit your code 10 times in the IDE

thethiny: hmm???

AntiSquid: watch legend completely change, ranking lottery is on! Automaton2000

Automaton2000: i guess i'll try to improve the bot

eulerscheZahl: multiplayer games don't count for that submit achievement

eulerscheZahl: not sure if bug or feature

thethiny: okay

thethiny: thanks!

AntiSquid: looks like full legend recalc, 117 people, not 100 max

BenjaminUrquhart: thethiny

eulerscheZahl: no i won't join your clash. god damn it

jrke: all legends are eveluating

Marchete: there isn't any alternative to Mono.Unix.Native.Stdlib.system?

thethiny: 😂

BenjaminUrquhart: what part of I can't code do you not understand

thethiny: I was trying it

dbdr: no, you're crashing more eulerscheZahl :P

AntiSquid: solaimanope stuck right below boss

eulerscheZahl: indeed. they run the whole league. i've seen that differently

BenjaminUrquhart: rip solaimanope

AntiSquid: improving earlier does mean a lot

eulerscheZahl: crashing?

eulerscheZahl: show me a replay to prove that

dbdr: > (10:35:26 AM) eulerscheZahl: i'm crashing like dbdr :D

eulerscheZahl: ah

dbdr: did you mean in the ranking?

eulerscheZahl: crashing more than you? that's an achievement

eulerscheZahl: was in the context of IDE matches

dbdr: ah ok :D

solaimanope: I can hear the coffin song playing.

solaimanope: What was the gold boss score in the end?

solaimanope: I can't find it.

ntroPi: ~28

eulerscheZahl: 28.40

AntiSquid: i want to read chokudai's post mortem, how do you get legend in less than 1 day, #1 PM by far imo :p

eulerscheZahl: see https://www.codingame.com/replay/467279114

solaimanope: Ok. That was fair I guess.

wlesavo: AntiSquid not sure we will get it

solaimanope: Would have hurt more if I were second with very close score :p

eulerscheZahl: japanese community is active on their blogs. i think there will be a post mortem. just not in english

WINWINWIN: When does it open as a multi?

BenjaminUrquhart: I assume after legend submit finishes

eulerscheZahl: we don't know but i think in 7h

ClosetAI: There are some japanese tweets https://twitter.com/chokudai?lang=en

dbdr: top 2 to 4 within 0.02 :D

eulerscheZahl: will history repeat?

dbdr: "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce."

jrke: its going to be tough call top 10

AntiSquid: "The one that kills by sandwiching between two bodies" www

Nerchio: i just realised you could do moves with pacs out of order?

Nerchio: so like pac 3 then pac 1 :D

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

eulerscheZahl: moves are in synx anyways

Nerchio: makes sense didnt use it though lol

eulerscheZahl: sync

ntroPi: does the order have game impact?

BenjaminUrquhart: I threw everything into a set so no defined iterations order :P

wlesavo: Nerchio they move simultaniously though

NovaHorizon: I don't think the order has game impact

Nerchio: yeah i guess

Nerchio: i didnt understand this game xD

AntiSquid: https://twitter.com/chokudai/status/1262293438583549953 this is basically a PM

ClosetAI: Looks like 2-4 places are decided by pure randomness

BenjaminUrquhart: not like I can read it

BenjaminUrquhart: ok so now

BenjaminUrquhart: sleeeeeeeep

Nerchio: YannT bot was very similar to mine maybe a little more fleshed out in some parts

AntiSquid: euler and his twin are very similar in rank, coincidence? :thinking:

Marchete: eulerscheZahl, Illedan

Marchete: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/edb9c13a-255e-4170-87b9-777b0ebb8ec7

Marchete: just as a fast replacement

AntiSquid: beamsearch was probably the most obvious first choice

Illedan: thx Marchete

Marchete: I'd say randomness is when players have +-0.02 or similar

Marchete: 0.50 difference is not that random

AntiSquid: you should have played to experience randomness of the contest first hand

Marchete: btw Illedan, do you see .net core faster?

Marchete: or it isn't noticeable?

Illedan: Didn't do tests yet

Marchete: when did they change it?

Illedan: Same day as contest started

Illedan: 1 day of 30% crashing bot at the start

Marchete: oh wow, that's a risky move

Illedan: Yeah, didn't allow my bot to stay 1st :(

Marchete: I never ever, like not in my worst nightmares, would push such change along with smth important

Illedan: And the motivation drained from that first day :P

Marchete: well, still top 100, and 16th in the previous one, so gj

MattSOrme: A player called FrenchKiss got into legen, but its bot has been crippled

AntiSquid: lol

AntiSquid: probably was bot hiding and overslept?

AntiSquid: maybe he wanted a last minute submit but failed

Uljahn: or unlucky last minute submit

MattSOrme: rip

Marchete: was the contest fun?

wlesavo: i think it was broken for quite a while

Clagus: depends on what is your definition of fun :D

Marchete: that you don't want to die at each key you press

dbdr: that's a low bar :D

dbdr: .

MoMaT: why would you cripple your legend bot? maybe if you used someone else's code to get there and try to hide it...

AntiSquid: marchete partially yes

AntiSquid: i enjoyed it up to the part where i started submit spamming just because of random leaderboard

Cappefra: @MoMaT but it got promoted to legend after the last submit...

RoboStac: it was in legend yesterday

RoboStac: last submit was 3:12pm 17/5

MoMaT: yes, so could have been changed after getting in. I don't think we can tell the promotion time...

AntiSquid: you can change the bot in gold before promotion

AntiSquid: once promotion is confirmed you can do whatever you want

AntiSquid: you still get promoted :p

MoMaT: good point. I didn't thought about that.

MoMaT: FrenchKiss, explain yourself :P

Dr-D: Jeha! Top 2000!

MoMaT: AntiSquid, you had a great last minute submit, you should be happy!

struct: javascript in top 20?

MoMaT: I remember several contest that ended up badly for me...

AntiSquid: i could have done much better, if i didn't waste time on submits lol

AntiSquid: should have focused better on fixing my bugs

AntiSquid: there are 3 bugs in my last submit that i am completely aware of btw

MoMaT: true. but that's the fun part :)

AntiSquid: playing ladder lottery ? kinda

MoMaT: tell me about it. my todo list is longer than the code...

NickStahl: Lot of C++ only in the top, one lost Java player :)

MoMaT: no, not the lottery, I'm not really saying *this* is good, but the thrill of watching your bot climbing up (and down)...

AntiSquid: ya i guess mine is horribly long too

MadKnight: i'm in gold this time

MoMaT: that's the fun part of the contest for me. I can't muster the same enthusiasm for the multi...

AntiSquid: wow MadKnight

MadKnight: did u beat AntiSquid MoMaT ?

MoMaT: you've stopped taking part for some time MadKnight, good too see you back.

MoMaT: depends how you look at it :) in ranking, no. he was like 100 places higher. but directly yes, his late submit actually improved my rank.

KeshaDM: The previous contest was more understandable. This one for me: my bugs in code are competing with the others' bugs :grinning:

F0lio: XD

MoMaT: to much functionality, too little quality? I'd like to see some kind of "on the side" results with minimum code (the simplest idea) to beat each boss.

MoMaT: I think it would be a great learning resource.

[CG]Thibaud: I'll ask Maxime to share a few ideas. At some point in the contest, he was top 300 with 200loc

eulerscheZahl: competition really improved the last days

[CG]Thibaud: yup

Uljahn: MoMaT: there is a postmortem for 300 LoC legend bot in kotlin

MoMaT: thanks, I'll have a look.

Peudoki: the French overtook the Hungarian kingdom in the end

Doju: Oh is it fine to share code now?

[CG]Thibaud: no. The game will open soon

Doju: alright

F0lio: Uljahn: what does postmortem mean? (curious)

Doju: so it's just explanations

MoMaT: "after death"

F0lio: right, thanks!

Uljahn: F0lio: it means a forum topic for discussing strategies and hints for specific contest

F0lio: I see

F0lio: im new

F0lio: much to learn

SparshMc07: UwU

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113/

Marchete: 300 LoC legend, I love challenges inside challenges :D

eulerscheZahl: dbdr has about 10 lines i think

dbdr: :innocent:

eulerscheZahl: his file bundler is weird

Marchete: how many, dbdr?

dbdr: compressed or normal?

Marchete: normal

dbdr: 1.9k

dbdr: that might include some non-fully used lib

dbdr: ah, also that's the pretty printed version, longer than what I wrote

eulerscheZahl: 1537 lines here

eulerscheZahl: verbose for me

Marchete: so, a normal bot :D

eulerscheZahl: a boring bot

Cappefra: 1.6k for me, I think 400 of which only for the hungarian algorithm to solve the super pellet assignment problem

eulerscheZahl: you can bruteforce that :D

eulerscheZahl: and: i should have do. was on my list but i totally didn't feel like it

wereii: friend of mine shared the link two days before closing, didn't make it further then Bronze but I had around 400 loc and most of it were OOPzed components with one or two methods for the game logic xd (py3)

eulerscheZahl: so sometimes i only get 1 superpellet

dbdr: do you include the opponent in that?

MSmits: hey Marchete

Peudoki: same here euler

MSmits: good to see you on chat

eulerscheZahl: and we have a similar rank Peudoki

eulerscheZahl: seems like i got you in the recalc

Cappefra: I only include the opponent to assign half of the super pellets to me and the other half to the opponent in the first round

Peudoki: I started so good in recalc

Peudoki: kept ascending

eulerscheZahl: but probably running out of battles before reaching robo

Peudoki: then like last 25% bombed

eulerscheZahl: and cow was 1st, now 10th already

MSmits: imagine I was rank 83 when I woke up. Resubmitted, rank 40, now on recalc 34 currently

MSmits: this is how random the game is

eulerscheZahl: and karliso climbed a lot

karliso: ...

dbdr: MSmits: non sequitur ;)

eulerscheZahl: maybe i should have resubmitted before it ended

karliso: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/karliso

Cappefra: by bruteforcing I sometimes ran into situations where a pac went to the closest one even though he could have gone for the second one, and the second closest pac was farther away than an enemy

MSmits: well done karliso

eulerscheZahl: these stats imply that you should climb even more

karliso: I feel dissapointed on multiple levels.

MSmits: dbdr it's an example, not a proof. Plenty to go around :)

Cappefra: so I treated it as a Munkres assignment algorithm

eulerscheZahl: pb4 will make his alternative ranking when the recalc is done

Cappefra: a bit excessive maybe but it worked

eulerscheZahl: curious to see how different it will be

MSmits: eulerscheZahl, not sure if thats a good idea though... there's a very good chance it will give a different result

MSmits: will breed resentment

eulerscheZahl: that's the point: giving an idea about accuracy

eulerscheZahl: and of course the alternative version isn't the "real" one either

MSmits: I know

eulerscheZahl: just showing possible discrepancies

MSmits: I don't think accuracy is possible. At most you can say for someone in top 10 , your rank is 6 +- 3 or something

MSmits: for someone ranked 40, your rank is 40 +- 20

eulerscheZahl: i'm still curious to see how similar or different the ranking will be

MSmits: yeah me too

Peudoki: we have 8-8 head-to-head eulerscheZahl

MSmits: I just hope people won't complain too much

MSmits: I won't

MSmits: i just acknowledge the randomness

eulerscheZahl: cgstats is incomplete as only the last 500 matches are shown

Scarfield: i will complain, uuuu how i will complain! :p

eulerscheZahl: but i'm collecting data already

karliso: np, multi will open and I will be first.

eulerscheZahl: we will see

MSmits: karliso you may be

MoMaT: dbdr got you good karliso.

MSmits: I think I got the lucky end of the recalc though. Not the first time either.

Peudoki: I think I got the unlucky end, but oh well

MoMaT: it would be nice to see which games were lost by a unlucky corner turn kill, and which where really competitive.

MSmits: peudoki, it's really hard to say. when you're submittign there are several distorting factors

MSmits: 1) A submit is not long enough to stabilize so you need time after

Peudoki: I'm between 10th and 20th either way I think

MSmits: 2) sometimes a lot of people who submit are rock vs your scissors and you drop lower than you should, or reverse

MoMaT: eulerscheZahl: could one extract that from server? I guess only for own games...

MSmits: 3) when lots of people submit,they are lower on the ladder and your rank seems higher than it is

MSmits: probably more things like this

Peudoki: well I'm close to Csipcsirip who is rock to my scissors

Peudoki: that hurts my recalc probably

eulerscheZahl: i'm just opening the last battles of each player and counting the wins/losses vs each other

MSmits: cool be yes

MSmits: could

eulerscheZahl: not by hand of course

eulerscheZahl: but the data is publicly accessible. not like i try to get your stderr stream

MSmits: two toads fairly near eachother on the leaderboard eulerscheZahl

MSmits: but I think you'll be top-toad

eulerscheZahl: the other toad got me at topcoder recently

MSmits: I see

MSmits: so this is payback

MSmits: eye for eye, toad for toad

Doju: I think the last revision of my bot caused timeouts :/

Doju: is there a way to see the games anymore?

eulerscheZahl: CG is my home game. i lost the away game

MSmits: true

eulerscheZahl: Doju last battles https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard

MoMaT: Doju, yes, from the ranking, click "last battles".

MSmits: illeda n I would have expected to rank higher

Doju: oh thanks

MSmits: i didnt see him online so much lately

eulerscheZahl: he wasn't motivated

MSmits: ah I see

MSmits: well good thing he made legend at least

eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a1679d01-99dd-4ce6-999f-be567122b1cb

eulerscheZahl: is that a general statement or does thibaud know something?

MSmits: thibaud always knows things

MSmits: anyway, gotta go do some teachin'

MoMaT: eulerscheZahl: you talking about the game results, I was wondering if you can get the gameplay data too. all the moves. this is needed to figure out the accidental deaths and measure how random the game really was. am I correct hat is only visible for your own games?

jrke: hey new name for first ranker

dbdr: stdout is public

RoboStac: no, you can get anyones replays. the only private thing is stderr output

eulerscheZahl: i even wrote an article how to do it: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/53705/contest-tools-and-workflow/introduction

eulerscheZahl: with code that you can run on the tech.io server directly in your browser

MSmits: wait, did you guys realize, there's someone with a gerbil on their company name !?

MoMaT: thanks RoboStac. I'll look into it then, maybe I can make some quick analysis.

MSmits: how do i get a gerbil?

MSmits: rank 36 on the recalc

eulerscheZahl: do you want me to get a dictionary now?

eulerscheZahl: you mean emoji?

MSmits: yeah!

eulerscheZahl: saw that

MSmits: it's awesome

eulerscheZahl: instafluff. that's from the streamer

eulerscheZahl: https://www.twitch.tv/instafluff/videos

dbdr: eulerscheZahl: type "By arena bot prints..." on https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/53705/contest-tools-and-workflow/setting-up-the-ide

MSmits: I see

dbdr: -> My

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Doju: Oh right... pellet_distance_power = 0.3

Doju: yeah thats bad

Doju: considers pellets to be at almost the same distance

eulerscheZahl: committed. tech.io should update it soon

dbdr: I made a typeo in "typo" :D

dbdr: and again

dbdr: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

ashelkov: challenge finished. now we gonna return to work and sleep a bit :) thx to all for participating. it was a nice time. :ghost:

eulerscheZahl: doesn't matter. it's not like anyone would download chat history so we can look at it later

dbdr: :innocent:

Clagus: ashelkov <3

eulerscheZahl: congrats for doing so well in javascript ashikujjaman

eulerscheZahl: ashelkov

eulerscheZahl: bad tab completion :/

ashelkov: thx! ive try hard

eulerscheZahl: i think everyone at the top did

Peudoki: I couldn't catch the toad in the end

Doju: Also i spent some time making sure that i'll at least try to catch any errors

Doju: then i left this on

Doju: DEBUG = True

Doju: xd

eulerscheZahl: you'll get another chance next time

eulerscheZahl: and you got 1 toad

Peudoki: but cg shows 9-8 head-to-head so I can blame my feeder teammates ^^

eulerscheZahl: cg stats is incomplete, only showing the last 500 battles

eulerscheZahl: i suppose there were more, that are trimmed now

eulerscheZahl: i downloaded the stats, still have to parse them

ashelkov: i've fihting here not only for self but for all Javascript community:)

Clagus: eulerscheZahl are you happy with top15?

eulerscheZahl: not completely

eulerscheZahl: but i think it's a deserved place

Clagus: top1 German? :P

eulerscheZahl: my bot wasn't that good

eulerscheZahl: first in germany is normal. there's even another german in legend, which isn't normal

Clagus: I think my bot was crappy, but I put a lot of time in it, and I'm pretty happy with 275th place :P

Clagus: yeah, not a lot of Germans here

eulerscheZahl: great. as long as you had fun and maybe even learned a thing or too, it was well invested time

Clagus: yes, I think so :) I'm on CG for a long time, but it was first contest I put a lot of time in

Clagus: it was also helpfull to talk with you guys here on chat

eulerscheZahl: woah, you joined in 2014 already

Clagus: :)

eulerscheZahl: when there were only 13k users

Clagus: top 20 is dominated by C++

MoMaT: eulerscheZahl: sorry, one more question. you seem to spend time on a "kill mode". is there any kind of corner kill (collision without vision from friendly unit) that you would consider non-random? I want to count the through unlucky deaths.

SujalAI: Hey anyone there?

MoMaT: *true

RoboStac: I'm pretty sure some people were aiming for corner kills on super pellet routes (as they were quite predicatable)

SujalAI: Now that the challenge is over can someone post their code

eulerscheZahl: i did some corner kills: know where the opponent is (visible or by tracking), then move another of my units (not visible to the opponent) to the predicted cell

eulerscheZahl: turned it off in my final submit, made some wrong guesses

Clagus: hah

eulerscheZahl: about where the opponent will go next

MoMaT: OK, so I could maybe look at interception of the shortest unit -> super dot paths as planned. would that make sense?

Clagus: isn't that a lot of effort for something that could bring very little gain?

eulerscheZahl: that path is hard to intercept. because then you would be even closer or at least as close to the super pellet as your opponent

eulerscheZahl: i even give up on some super pellets when opponent has same dist but can beat me

eulerscheZahl: lunch time

Clagus: yeah, that's easy and actually is good

Clagus: and I've seen a lot of maps with such situations, as if they were not random at all :D

SujalAI: Can someone post their code

Uljahn: SujalAI: the challenge will reappear as a multiplayer game in some hours, why ruin it?

SujalAI: Uljahn when will that happen?

SujalAI: I was going to continue my code today but the game is just gone

Clagus: SujalAI you can't just come and ask people for hours of their work like that :P but if you need some help, you can ask questions

SujalAI: How can I prevent my pacs from targeting the same pellet?

Clagus: that's a good question! I implemented it myself actually

SujalAI: I have an array with the location of every single pellet

tomatoes: prioritize pacs

SujalAI: What do you mean by prioritize pacs

Clagus: I am calculating top 7 moves for each pac, and then I am selecting a field only for one pac

Clagus: so if another pac already took it, it's not allowed for another pac

SujalAI: Do I need to use speed for bronze or can i finish it with switch

tomatoes: speed more important

SujalAI: tomatoes Oh someone told me switch is more important :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Clagus: yeah, in bronze you can just use speed as soon as it is possible

Vadasz: Will be there top10 resubmits, or this is the final leaderboard?

RoboStac: this should be final, the recalcs happened

SujalAI: I think I'll need to find out the direction of the pacs to use speed or else I might just run into an enemy

Clagus: sometimes you will, but most times you won't :P

Uljahn: SujalAI: more hints for you (but no code, sorry) https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113

SujalAI: Clagus can you give me some tips for defense, right now I'm just using switch when an enemy is close by. But this causes some problems when i'm under cooldown

SujalAI: Uljahn I'm on that page right now

Clagus: SujalAI you can always check your cooldown, and if it's not active yet, you can try to evade

SujalAI: Clagus that's what i did

Clagus: I'm actually mostly evading enemies

SujalAI: Clagus I didn't evade the enemies

SujalAI: I don't know how to implement that lol

Clagus: if you can see enemy

Clagus: and he is stronger kind

Clagus: you can check if his speed + your speed <= distance

Clagus: then you are in a danger zone

SujalAI: How do I know which way to go, I only know the distance

Clagus: I am check the distance to the field my pac is going to

Clagus: and the enemy to the same field

Clagus: if the enemy distance is more than my pac distance, then I will not collide with him probably

Clagus: so no directions needed for that :)

Clagus: I came up with that myself :P

Clagus: probably isn't very smart, but still

Clagus: it works in most cases so...

Clagus: I like simple ideas, easy to implement, but powerfull in outcome - I'm too lazy for anything else :P

Clagus: as Homer Simpson said: "if something is hard to do, it's not worth doing" :D

Dipucian: can we add new languages~?

Clagus: SujalAI - good luck with improving anyways - for me trying out new ideas is the fun

Marchete: hello MSmits

Uljahn: Dipucian: admins rarely add new langauges, they're more focused on supporting the existing ones

Dipucian: is there anything we can help~?

Clagus: just out of curiosity - which language?

Uljahn: you could ask them on discord or on the forum

Hvosten: I've started in groovy with simple algorith and I had many timeouts :D

Dipucian: maybe unison~?

eulerscheZahl: there were some problems with groovy this time

_____snow_____: Is there anyone who made use of machine learning approach in the contest? maybe it can be used for designing evaluation metrics?

Uljahn: doubt it

GauravGosain: i need some help with a practice question, has anyone solved Shadows of the Knight - Episode 1

GauravGosain: :(

BeardedWhale: GauravGosais, ask away

GauravGosain: well the question gives just the direction as the input in every iteration but we have no array having the positions of the bomb how are we supposed to determine how many steps in that direction do we have to jump

BeardedWhale: The bomb remains in the same position, so you must use all previous directions as clues to where it can be.

BeardedWhale: You cannot figure out directly where the bomb is, you must rule out as many possibilities as you can with each jump

PiterYeh: is it possible that using C# in the contest we had random 10ms hiccups, maybe due to GC?

GauravGosain: oh thanks

Uljahn: there is the hint in puzzle tags (binary search)

GauravGosain: thx guys :) will try to solve it

BeardedWhale: np, good luck :)

Clagus: PiterYeh I had no timeouts using c# (after I fixed my structs to properly implement GetHashCode :P )

IAmNoob: HI!!!!

Clagus: PiterYeh but I wasn't really checking my execution times...

wereii: @ernestvw what was the math behind clicks? tried to do it simple but meeh

IAmNoob: What is that fall challenge 2020

wereii: clinks*

PiterYeh: i didn't implement GetHashCode but i didn't have any dictionary... sometimes time just kind of warped between one pac and the other, so i gave 0ms time budget to beamsearch and my pacs randomly walked around for one turn :( i couldn't find the problem in my code, so i thought maybe it was a C# thing

IAmNoob: i dont belive they started another challenge

IAmNoob: they are insane:))))))

tomatoes: fall

PiterYeh: Clagus were you using the full 50ms?

HappyJoo: Estamos de volta com um material que achamos ser de bastante interesse das pessoas que querem seguir na programação Python. What's this language? Can't I change it?

Uljahn: Automaton2000: what's going on the chat?

Clagus: PiterYeh probably not - as I said I didn't check that

Automaton2000: when i tried it and it will get a lot more

Clagus: I only checked my initial time (because I was timing out)

MSmits: yay looks like i made 33 after all...

eulerscheZahl: congrats

MSmits: big relief tbh

IAmNoob: what is fall

IAmNoob: thingy

eulerscheZahl: fall = autumn

IAmNoob: ok i know

IAmNoob: is another contest

PiterYeh: Clagus alright, thanks anyway

IAmNoob: i mean

Uljahn: it's not ready yet :)

MSmits: eulerscheZahl bit sad you didnt get higher than 14. Is this unlucky or did you just get passed in bot strength in the last 2 days?

eulerscheZahl: i have no idea

MSmits: yeah i should have guess, noone has an idea about this :P

eulerscheZahl: saw myself at 6 today (with some submitting)

MSmits: hmm ok

eulerscheZahl: but that rank could have been luck as well

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: I'll write a serious PM I think. I'm not near the top, but I think some parts of my bot are definitely top 10 worthy

eulerscheZahl: then i dropped. and my bots isn't even worse against some players from the top than vs 10-20 range

eulerscheZahl: i'm not sure if i want to write a PM or not

MSmits: I'm curious about your search

eulerscheZahl: beam search, one pacman after another

Cappefra: I'm curious about the traps

eulerscheZahl: then run again in reverse pac order

MSmits: oh, i started with beamsearch... I got stuck on recursion

eulerscheZahl: bruteforce traps

Cappefra: or in generale about how top people implemented cooperation

MSmits: i will share this Cappefra, my cooperation was definitely good

eulerscheZahl: for each opp and pair of 2 own pacmen: where can opp go (list of cells)? then i move to limit these options

eulerscheZahl: repeat until 0 possible locations (=kill) or cooldown=0 (escaped)

eulerscheZahl: quite simple actually

Clagus: yup, simple but powerfull

MSmits: ahh ok

Clagus: very cool

MSmits: I did a full monte carlo sim

eulerscheZahl: and i also put a null into my own pacmen. that way i do 1 vs 1 kills

MSmits: with opponents as walls when they have advantage of type

MSmits: a null?

eulerscheZahl: and my bot thinking: https://imgur.com/a/2hGeE8b

eulerscheZahl: nullptr

eulerscheZahl: so that one pac is null and i only move 1 of my team

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: very different from what I did

MSmits: a big thing I take away from this contest is the power of monte carlo

IAmNoob: are there many people in CODERS STRIKE BACK legend?

MSmits: I always viewed it as a poor man's solution if you dont know a better way

MSmits: but thats not correct

MSmits: IAmNoob yes

IAmNoob: ok:(

IAmNoob: i am now in gold and i thought i am one of 100

eulerscheZahl: maybe i should write a PM then. at least about tracking + killing. i'm just totally not in a mood :/

MSmits: yeah, understandable

JBM: just don't wiat until you forgot all about it

MSmits: I'm in a better mood because i woke up at rank 83 :P

eulerscheZahl: like my xmas rush post mortem, JBM?

MSmits: you did that one really late?

eulerscheZahl: which is still published soon

MSmits: oh

IAmNoob: Is there a contest or a challenge every season?

JBM: possibly :D

JBM: not yet

JBM: only 3 to go

IAmNoob: ok

MSmits: IAmNoob nope, the schedule is erratic

eulerscheZahl: in the past we had 4-5 contest per year. will be less frequent now

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: thx

eulerscheZahl: next contest is planned for end of 2020. that's all we know

MSmits: but honestly, you can get almost the same experience by having a group of likeminded people fight a multiplayer arena at the same time

MSmits: happens all the time

eulerscheZahl: or we create our own contest and suggest it to CG

MSmits: pick an arena you like, talk about it here regularly and people will join, try to beat you at it

MSmits: or that

Marchete: except poker chip race

Marchete: don't talk about it anymore

SujalAI: Has anyone done code vs zombies?

MSmits: heh, no PCR is in my past now, probably forever, with all the arenas available

MSmits: SujalAI yes

Clagus: why after finishing top300 I lost ranking points O_o

Clagus: I mean global account ranking

RoboStac: it won't have been counted yet

MSmits: check tomorrow

Clagus: oh ok, I thought it was because in "bot programming" I saw increase

MSmits: it's pretty expensive to recalculate a leaderboard of 2 million players, so they do it at night

MSmits: Clagus other stuff happens every day, so that increase may have several causes

Clagus: ok sure :P

Clagus: yeah I've just checked in details, that was old increase :P

MSmits: ah ok

Clagus: I was just suprised cause I got new ranking today and it was lower than last ranking from March

Clagus: that's why I asked

Clagus: thx

Illedan: hmm, what is wrong with PCR Marchete? :thinking:

MSmits: he just spent too much time on it I think

MSmits: but result is quite good

SujalAI: MSmiths how do i prioritize Ash to target zombies close to humans?

MSmits: I just did a bunch of random moves and calculate score based on that

MSmits: then picked the best move

MSmits: monte carlo

MSmits: other than that, no heuristic rules

SujalAI: But how can I proritize zombies close to humans?

MSmits: your search gives score for surviving humans

MSmits: so your search wont pick moves where humans die

SujalAI: I'm just finding the closest zombie, but I want to chose a zombie if it's very close to a human

PiterYeh: If CG is gound to host less contests, are you guys going to use any alternative platforms?

MSmits: ah well you can calculate for each human what the distance to the closest zombie is and then walk to the zombie that is closest to a human

MSmits: not saying this is the best way, but its a good thing to do to practice

Nerchio: so they go away from community contests and then we will have 2 contests per year ^^?

IAmNoob: The best thing in coders strike back are the fancy drifts

Marchete: PCR simulation is sh*t

Marchete: even with the referee is hardf

PiterYeh: i'm not saying to drop CG, just wondering if there are alternatives in between CG contests

Miarem: MSmits, now I'm free to wreck you at uTTT

MSmits: hehe, good luck :)

Miarem: pff... I have skill, I don't need any luck!

MSmits: ah but when both players have skill, luck is the difference :)

MSmits: I have to warn you... i am very lucky :P

MSmits: for some reason luck gave me a 100% winrate as p1 vs you, karli so and re curse after all... :P

Nerchio: Piter i think there is not that many contests unfortunately

Miarem: we'll see, 3 elo pts is a big gap to cover

MSmits: i would worry more about kar liso though

MSmits: my bot beats him now because I broke his opening book

MSmits: but he's in a league of his own compared to everyone else

MSmits: my bot may match him,but I am not even sure of that

MSmits: its funny how nagrarok got pushed up too

MSmits: still strong after all that time

Miarem: karliso, what do you code daily?

Miarem: do you have anything to do with AI and similar stuff?

Miarem: or is it just a hooby?

Miarem: *hobby?

MSmits: might be afk

Quidome: Is the leaderboard final?

Miarem: and what is most impressive about Nagrarok's commit. it's date 04/08/2018

Miarem: Quidome, yes

MSmits: yes, he was nr 1 for a long time, i think like a year

Quidome: Nice work MSmits

MSmits: what do you mean Quidome?

Quidome: plaats 33 legend :)

MSmits: oh ja, best tevreden, ben nu post mortem aan het schrijven

Quidome: cool, zit op middelbaar onderwijs?

MSmits: Ik geef natuurkunde en informatica, dus ja

Quidome: Oh, ok, je bent docent :)

MSmits: yep

Csipcsirip: no rerun for the top10 ?

MSmits: there was a recalc

MSmits: did you miss it?

MSmits: it just does this for top 100

MSmits: not top 10 specifically

Csipcsirip: hm I thought there would be 1 more rerun only for those in the top10

Miarem: i don't think it's possible

MSmits: They never do that

Csipcsirip: hm...okay

MSmits: pb4 will do his own calculation to check, with a different system, to see if the order would be different

MSmits: but thats not official

Miarem: cause some of top-10 might get smaller score than 11th

MSmits: miarem, they could solve that problem

Csipcsirip: yeah sure you're right

MSmits: but they're not going to. It's not wise either, any recalc is going to keep the randomness inherent to this game. It would be sad for people who got nr 1 on first recalc, then nr 3 on second, or something

Miarem: yeah, this one gone quite messy

MSmits: it would only cause more contention about the end result I think

MSmits: better to accept the result and move on. I think Saelyos is reasonably clear as a winner, but not sure

MSmits: good enough

MSmits: it's not 0.01 difference

Miarem: yeah, i also see the flaws of the system

Miarem: but i kind of enjoy them

Miarem: it is a part of game

MSmits: it's not a flaw of the system really. The system isn't perfect, but the game is just very random. With the game a given, an unbiased ranking system can't exist I think

MSmits: you will always have situations where the nr 8 easily beats the nr 3, but the nr 3 easily beats 4, 5 and 6

AntiSquid: MSmits hates the game

MSmits: no i dont

MSmits: i accept the randomness as a given

joelthelion: most intersting games are like that

MSmits: I actually got the lucky end of it in my rank

AntiSquid: do you think the game would be as random in outcome with 1 pac?

eulerscheZahl: winrates that will be used to generate the alternative ranking: https://pastebin.com/4Kxk7x2r

MSmits: AntiSquid no it would be less random

AntiSquid: or less pacs

MSmits: or without hidden information

MSmits: it would be less random then too

AntiSquid: 5 pacs, tiny map, you basically calculate best options turn 1 if i am not mistaken

MSmits: the first turns are super important there yeah

RoboStac: 1 pac would be instantly over if you died on a corner

RoboStac: which would be very random

RoboStac: though I guess you could track better

MSmits: yes, you could already sometimes guess an opponent would be coming around the corner

kovi: back

AntiSquid: well corner kills are also very random :/

MSmits: yes, corner kills are the biggest source of noice

MSmits: noise

GlitchyByte: I didn't know about gaming the ranking the system. Boosting with promo. 1st time doing this. I was 50 Silver at some point. Could have left it at that and probably be boosted to gold. Instead I had to tinker and submit close to the finish line.

MSmits: it's hard to say if you could actually have been boosted to gold GlitchyByte

MSmits: depends on the rating difference mostly

AntiSquid: lots got pushed to legend GlitchyByte :D

MSmits: not the actual rank

RoboStac: it's very unlikely you'd get boosted that far - it tends to just be people very close to the boss

MSmits: yeah, normally it is. there is a large margin of error in some areas on the leaderboard though, with lots of people with the same rating

MSmits: but those tend to get pushed past the boss very quickly

RoboStac: yeah, but that affects the middle much more than the top ends

MSmits: whats left are people will bots clearly weaker than boss

MSmits: with

MSmits: true RoboStac

MSmits: in legend middle, the error was +- 20 ranks I think

MSmits: at top probably +- 3 or 5

MSmits: gold it was +-100 for many

kovi: 20 for top...

MSmits: well depends on what you mean by top and how many people are submitting at once

kovi: true

MSmits: you guys were all submitting at once, thats even more unreliable

AntiSquid: got worse by the end MSmits, gold bots got similar in strength and between submits you could have 200 rank difference for some

MSmits: yes, but +-100 is a 200 margin

MSmits: it doesnt bother me too much, if you look at the whole leaderboard of 5k players, better bots did clearly rank better. It's just a bit annoying for those that just missed something. Like a promotion or a prize

eulerscheZahl: or the opportunity to sell their bot

GlitchyByte: Ha!

MSmits: lol, what?

eulerscheZahl: got an offer to sell mine. ceg too

MSmits: wow

MSmits: I've never gotten that

eulerscheZahl: https://prnt.sc/sipo2z

MSmits: thats bad

MonZtaDeluxe: wtf

MSmits: did you report them to CG?

eulerscheZahl: i told here to contact thibaud (and also shared that chat and a bit more on the moderators channel on discord)

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: she said banning them later wouldn't work

eulerscheZahl: and then asked me to have my bot

MSmits: it would have been a good idea to disqualify them from the leaderboard so they have no standing for their school

MSmits: the opposite of what they were trying

Stilgart: eulerscheZahl: no comment

MSmits: I like how ceg responded

Cappefra: granted that scholl thing is really happening

Bob: lol, I say

Stilgart: btw, am I the only one to have an increase of invitation for CoCs ?

Cappefra: yes

IAmNoob: :))

IAmNoob: yes

Stilgart: ha nice

Bob: you must be so popular <3

Stilgart: IAmNoob: at least, spent some time between two votes, it would be nice

Stilgart: Bob: well, it will become "completely absent" if things goes on

IAmNoob: Why

IAmNoob: ?

eulerscheZahl: i got a lot of CoC invites too recently

Bob: I believe Azkellas's CG enhancer script can disable them

CyberLemonade: is it from raghavachekuri?

Stilgart: that's the last one (yesterday)

CyberLemonade: yes he spammed me today

eulerscheZahl: 8 invites in the last 11 days for me

CyberLemonade: 5 since morning for me

eulerscheZahl: you won :D

CyberLemonade: :joy:

IAmNoob: Stilgart why should i dont vote early?

Stilgart: voting should be down after some reflexion

IAmNoob: ok

Stilgart: more than 10 votes in half an hour is not so good

Stilgart: it makes me think that you don't even read the statement

Stilgart: (note that I don't know what you really do)

Uljahn: is it contribution related?

Stilgart: yep

IAmNoob: I do bro:))

IAmNoob: why would i dont

Stilgart: some in the past did not

IAmNoob: I make my own solutions

IAmNoob: for what i accept

Stilgart: and some contributions with issues were accepted

IAmNoob: there were minor issues

Stilgart: having a solution is far from enough

CyberLemonade: IAmNoob that's okay but often times the clashes aren't fun at all

IAmNoob: I know

IAmNoob: Stilgart

Stilgart: I was thinking of contributions with major flaws

IAmNoob: like:

IAmNoob: put a link or something

Stilgart: it is not among the one you accepted... I said "in the past" :)

IAmNoob: aaaaaaaaaaaa

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: :))

Stilgart: just keep in mind that, in the same past, fast multiple votes like this have led to mass refusal

MSmits: I dont get invited much, did I turn of some notification or something?

Stilgart: (we on #fr are good at mass refusal)

MSmits: btw, I dont want invites... just in case you're wondering

IAmNoob: Stilgart ok thx

Stilgart: MSmits: I wish it were possible

IAmNoob: :))

Marchete: :rofl:

wlesavo: even i got an offer of 200$ for my bot lol, different acc from ceg though

IAmNoob: i would give the bot:)))

IAmNoob: but at 500$

struct: lol

struct: wlesavo for the bot of this contest?

eulerscheZahl: i got 2 offers: the one from ceg and javatar2018

wlesavo: same scheme actually, but my kid was also crying that his parrents will kill him if he wont be in top 100

eulerscheZahl: who i can't find anymore, probably the nick changed

MSmits: rofl wlesavo

wlesavo: yeah, javatar

wlesavo: thats the guy

struct: 200$ for 12 days work

struct: cheap

MonZtaDeluxe: there's a zero missing on the right side a guess

cegprakash: :( :(

cegprakash: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

cegprakash: woke up to very bad rank

cegprakash: this ladder system won't give me games against top guys

eulerscheZahl: and we don't know if we would actually ever see the money

cegprakash: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/cegprakash

wlesavo: i tried to give him some advices, but then i realised he uses euclidean distance, so he is probably quite far form top 100

eulerscheZahl: how shall i click a link when you message appears the same moment i want to click wlesavo?

wlesavo: lol

wlesavo: clickbait

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl I had 60% win rate against 40-50 ranks

cegprakash: but it didn't matter for CG

cegprakash: it gave me more games against bottom 20

eulerscheZahl: recalcs can be painful

eulerscheZahl: once i dropeed from 25 to 91

eulerscheZahl: top50 = tshrit ranks, was already celebrating

cegprakash: what

cegprakash: top 50 t shirts

cegprakash: :@ :@

wlesavo: which game?

eulerscheZahl: coders of the carribbean

wlesavo: painful indeed

AntiSquid: where does it say anything about t-shirts?

eulerscheZahl: for this contest? nowhere

AntiSquid: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: and that's how you quickly spread misinformation by people only reading half the chat ;)

AntiSquid: ille only at 91 for this contest? thought he had a stronger bot

eulerscheZahl: in the beginning. people improved

AntiSquid: brutal legend

eulerscheZahl: he confirmed having low motivation

eulerscheZahl: and still beating most players

AntiSquid: you defeated your clone

Csipcsirip: :D

eulerscheZahl: implying eulerscheZahl = Illedan? :D

AntiSquid: no, that daiver guy

Csipcsirip: the other toad I think

AntiSquid: #22

eulerscheZahl: my revenge for topcoder

eulerscheZahl: where i got 17th and he finished 4th i think

AntiSquid: did you enjoy this contest ?

eulerscheZahl: at first: no

Adnmaster: it was quite fun

eulerscheZahl: when i got the idea: yes

eulerscheZahl: not a fan of fog of war in general

SunjiWa: Personally I preferred some other contests

SunjiWa: like overcooked and hearthstone clones

AntiSquid: felt more like a puzzle initially

SunjiWa: hi from me

AntiSquid: hi

struct: I just hope someday we will get another physics contest

eulerscheZahl: like overcooked and hearthstone clones

that's so of the least liked by me

eulerscheZahl: so => some

AntiSquid: pacman 2 clone would have been nice imo

SujalAI: has the spring challenge been made a game now?

AntiSquid: soon

AntiSquid: maybe this afternoon

CyberLemonade: has anyone written a PM?

AntiSquid: has anyone written in chat?

eulerscheZahl: check the forum

Uljahn: SujalAI: you'll get a notification when it's released i guess

[CG]SaiksyApo: How did you liked pac-collision or would you have preferred pac overlapping resulting in shifumi fight when enemy ?

darkhorse64: Will the pacman clone (the multi submitted right before the contest)return ?

eulerscheZahl: collision is fine

wlesavo: AntiSquid will pacman contribution be released?

eulerscheZahl: even if a little hard to understand with "human logic" sometimes

eulerscheZahl: in the end i didn't even implement any collision physics in my bot. just avoided colliding with myself

wlesavo: darkhorse64 damn, somehow thinked of the same thing just now

eulerscheZahl: and kept bumping into the opponent. speed makes you lose 1 turn. switch gives the opponent the option to counter-switch

eulerscheZahl: that multi was actually uploaded almost 1 year ago. made by jupoulton

Uljahn: i'd like to have "look around the corner" ability :smiley:

darkhorse64: I like the RPS thing, the collisions were OK as they are, I have mixed feeling for the fog of war. All in all, I fared pretty badly in this contest, so I may be biased

AntiSquid: round the corner kills was the main issue imo [CG]SaiksyApo

eulerscheZahl: you can deduct some info from details given (score, missing and remaining pellets)

darkhorse64: My question was whether the multi can return for all

AntiSquid: wlesavo you need to speak to thibaud, he told me not to share the game

eulerscheZahl: but he didn't tell me and i downloaded it from squiddy's contribution :imp:

darkhorse64: That's totally understandable given the contest theme but now that the contest is over, it may be reconsidered

eulerscheZahl: we don't know why it was created

eulerscheZahl: a prototype for this contest? an internal hackathon for a company?

eulerscheZahl: hacakthons can't be multiplayers for contract reasons

AntiSquid: i think there was a diff reason darkhorse64

AntiSquid: also it looks exactly like pacman except it's 2 players, 1 pac each

AntiSquid: no fog, no RPS, ghosts are in there, damn it seems a lot of fun

darkhorse64: I am OK with any decision taken it's just a question for CG. Is it OK for them or not

darkhorse64: [CG]Thibaud: do you know anything about that ? Can the multi return ?

darkhorse64: Yeah, it looks like the classic game, a nice to have thing

wlesavo: also easy to implement a simple bot by cutting current one, so probably will have some attention and a little more players than usual community contributions

[CG]Thibaud: I'm sorry, we prefer to keep it

wlesavo: oh well, understandable i guess

Astrobytes: I'm sure someone in the community could come up with something similar for us all

darkhorse64: No problem, thanks for the quick answer

Marchete: it's hacking time! https://youtu.be/bS5P_LAqiVg?t=607

kurto: can anyone help me

kurto: ??

AntiSquid: yes jesus can if you let him in your heart

ShlOk: @kurto what happened??

kurto: im stuck down a well

kurto: i need to learn to code

kurto: really quick

kurto: i use python

struct: why really quick?

Astrobytes: To get out of the well, presumably

ShlOk: @Antisquid i have a damn question for u. Last day u did not allow me to share links now that guy is sharing the link . Cant u tell him??

Astrobytes: ShlOk AntiSquid meant clash invitation links

Astrobytes: It's bad form to post those

ShlOk: Who r u all to tell me bro??

ShlOk: Protocol is for everyone

ShlOk: Not only for selective ones

wlesavo: dam Marchete now im watching kung fury

Astrobytes: Dude, you don't have to share clash links, if people want to clash - they will join

eulerscheZahl: legend is 114 players now. where did they go?

Astrobytes: Any other non-clash links are fine ShlOk

ShlOk: @Astrobytes dont change the point broo.

Uljahn: clash links are dead in 5 minutes so that's spam

tobk: collision was kind of weird though. in one replay had two of my own bots headbutt each other trying to kill another bot. needless to say the attacked bot in the middle did survive this...

ShlOk: U also know i m right!!

Astrobytes: ShlOk which part are you not getting here?

WINWINWIN: Multi released yet?

ShlOk: I know u all r experts!!!! But i dont want anyone to be bias on this website.:angry:

Astrobytes: Later today probably WINWINWIN

WINWINWIN: :(

kurto: how do i select only the initials of a name?

WINWINWIN: python right?

eulerscheZahl: FrenchKiss removed. and 2 others as well. spot the missing players

Astrobytes: ShlOk - Dude. The rules are simple. no clash links. Most other links are fine. Where is the issue?

WINWINWIN: name = input().split()

WINWINWIN: initials = [ i[0] for i in name]

WINWINWIN: This will give the initials as a lisk kurto

WINWINWIN: *List

Csipcsirip: will the contest return as a multi ?

Quidome: I moved up 6 places, so 6 people aboce me removed?

eulerscheZahl: soon

AntiSquid: shlok / shiok that conversation was about not harassing people to join stupid clash

AntiSquid: you can share links (apart from NSFW)

Csipcsirip: nice

Quidome: why are they removed?

AntiSquid: 6 places where ?

thethiny: can someone send me the forums link

thethiny: can't seem to find it

WINWINWIN: 6 places in contest?

eulerscheZahl: let me check...

Astrobytes: AntiSquid I tried telling him :shrug:

Quidome: i am 466 gold and I was 472

WINWINWIN: thethiny

WINWINWIN: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113/33

AntiSquid: it's not even about sharing clash link, he was telling everyone to join the clash now he is being a drama queen Astrobytes

Quidome: sorry overall rating that is

KonamiCode: yeah, someone got removed

Astrobytes: AntiSquid I know, I saw him doing it

WINWINWIN: @Quidome, maybe some people are removed from contest because of what happened in the morning

thethiny: thx winwinwin

Quidome: what was happening?

KonamiCode: mataranga was 70-something, now N/A

Astrobytes: What happened in the morning?

WINWINWIN: Some US college offered a prize to winners and to get that prize the students tried copy pasting

AntiSquid: i was 201st, 3 got removed above me it seems

Quidome: Oh, ok, interesting

Astrobytes: FFS, real clever

[CG]Thibaud: we kicked a few smurfs and people who shared code

[CG]Thibaud: still deciding if we should kick the main accounts (who had smurfs)

eulerscheZahl: kord mataranga FrenchKiss

struct: Thibaud you mean multiple submits with multiple accounts?

struct: or smurf accounts with only 1 submit?

MSmits: my massive PM is up

[CG]Thibaud: yeah, sorry I mean "alt accounts"

WINWINWIN: Does not seem possible to figure a smurf if it is multiple submits multiple accounts

struct: Yeah I get that, but my question is, you ban people that used alt accounts + real accounts?

struct: Like multiple submits per person

AntiSquid: similar code i guess Winwin

Astrobytes: I think that's what they're trying to decide struct

Quidome: hm, this is not so funny

struct: I think my wording is poor

struct: let me see if I can explain my question :p

darkhorse64: Anxious, struct ?

[CG]Thibaud: we kick the alts only not main accounts. And when code was shared, we kept the first player only

MadKnight: [CG]Thibaud probably only legendary and maybe gold alts

WINWINWIN: :) darkhorse64

struct: So Imagine you had a smurf and only submited on contest with that account

[CG]Thibaud: yes MadKnight

struct: That should not be a problem imo

struct: But if you submited with smurf + other accounts

struct: asure

eulerscheZahl: 3 in legend removed: kord, mataranga, FrenchKiss

darkhorse64: Only copy / paste if you improve

Quidome: [CG]Thibaud thnxs for all the efforts!

[CG]Thibaud: :heart:

eulerscheZahl: yeah, highly appreciated

AntiSquid: so alt until silver is ok ?

WINWINWIN: On top of that they also reached gold in the contest!

WINWINWIN: Awesome [CG]Thibaud

WINWINWIN: !!

struct: darkhorse64 im not anxious, just wanted to understand, I did not compete in this challenge

[CG]Thibaud: alt is never ok

darkhorse64: struct: I am just trolling you :innocent:

wlesavo: nice PM MSmits, thx

GauravGosain: hey guys :D

GauravGosain: im still noob at coding but slowly learning

GauravGosain: this is super fun

kurto: is it possible to learn python in 3 months? i seen a YT vid of a guy saying he got proficient enough for a job at google after 3 months of coding

kurto: im still in a well

Hjax: can you learn python in 3 months? absolutely! can you learn enough that google wlil hire you, unclear

Hjax: google cares about more things than just how well you write code, they care about how you think, how you solve problems, etc

struct: past experience also counts

kurto: i can write a calculator using python, where do i go from here?i want to learn more

struct: If he had previous languages knowledge

Maciulis: did he learn to code from scratch or had previous experience in other language

Uljahn: i doubt you can learn python with all standard libraries in 3 months

Marchete: and in 2 months?

Uljahn: sure :smiley:

Marchete: :D

GauravGosain: if u have coded in almost any language before learning python is a breeze

kurto: is a 6 month python course going to bring me up to speed?

Uljahn: it depends

kurto: im fucking dumb

kurto: but i want to improve

Uljahn: improve in what? what's your goal?

kurto: coding. make money from it

AntiSquid: then do some android apps and insert as many ads as possible into them

AntiSquid: make sure they are cash grab p2w

AntiSquid: or be innovative and create something unique

kurto: i mean i want to learn to code and get a job

kurto: currently i a dumb welder

AntiSquid: what kind of job

kurto: backend developer

AntiSquid: then pick a language for backend and learn that

kurto: im doing that

kurto: but

kurto: as i said, i can code a calculator. where do i go from there?

Astrobytes: Hey, being a welder does not make you dumb. Give yourself some credit ;)

AntiSquid: i don't think this is the best site to learn backend development

AntiSquid: what Astrobytes says is very much true, there's lots of "IT" people that are dumb

kurto: where can i learn to understand the flow of a code

AntiSquid: hey i don't know best site for backend, but use google to find tutorials, alternatively use freecodecamp it teaches backend too

Maciulis: go to job boards search for junior positions, analyze reqs get familiar with some of the tools used and apply

MSmits: yw wlesavo, I like writing them

Maciulis: you will learn on the job

Uljahn: or try to apply for internship

AntiSquid: make sure to ignore junior positions that require years of experience, those are people trying to underpay you

kurto: ive been doing that for 9 months

kurto: i need to get past just being able to code a calculator

AntiSquid: do their charity projects if you can't find anything better

AntiSquid: and use that to show you have experience

AntiSquid: or go freelance i guess ?

Maciulis: there is not much of market for custom calculators

AntiSquid: that's why i said he should search for tutorials if he wants to learn more, but the calculator project is just one of the many on that site, he stopped early

Maciulis: try paid evening courses in your city, most of them advertise that they will help you find a job afterwards. Got to invest money to make money

AntiSquid: charity projects on freecodecamp (if they still have those) are free and you do real world stuff

Kellthazar: Anyone did the Monte Carlo Tree Search Exercise? https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/monte-carlo-tree-search-exercise

Uljahn: yep

Kellthazar: So, could you help me? When they said: "Reading baa 30" why not create 3 nodes instead of one? root -> b -> a -> a

RoboStac: thats how basic mcts works - each time you search from the root you create one new node and then do a playout from there. Creating nodes for each move in the playout is very inefficient as you might never come back to this part of the tree (and usually the game is much deeper than 3 moves).

struct: My uTTT problem :(

struct: I guess its simple enough to fix

MSmits: oh nice, a mcts puzzle

Marchete: try it, maybe you never heard about it :D

Marchete: about MCTS

Marchete: it's kind of interesting

Kellthazar: RootStac, so, how to differ the "baa 30" playout from the "bbb 4" (first example)?

Kellthazar: By this statement "Finally, reading bbb 4 will create a new node on a path bb from the root, updating all statistics on a way to the root, so the root will have 3 visits, and b node 2 visits."

Kellthazar: "create a new node on path bb"

Kellthazar: I cant understand...

RoboStac: each time you start from the root and follow your tree until you encounter a move you've not seen before. You then make a node there and backprop the score

RoboStac: so the first line creates a starting move b as there aren't any nodes

RoboStac: second line creates starting move a as you haven't seen that

RoboStac: third time you already have b node so you travel to that and create a child b node on there

MSmits: lol Marchete

RoboStac: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/09ad409c-882c-4fab-8b12-31c33ff97437

RoboStac: so you end up with that tree

lifetimeLearner007: hey guys any idea when spring challenge 2020 will be available for offline playing?

Kellthazar: RoboStac... ohhhh

Kellthazar: lifetimeLearner007: https://github.com/CodinGame/SpringChallenge2020

Kellthazar: You can "play it" locally with this project...

Kellthazar: Thanks, RoboStac, I think I get it.

lifetimeLearner007: Kellthazar, I meant like a game in CG website. Like we have past OOC, LOCM etc. Sorry, I wasn't clear b4.

Kellthazar: Oh, no problem... And I don't know. :)

eulerscheZahl: "we’ll release the game soon"

eulerscheZahl: https://forum.codingame.com/t/spring-challenge-2020-bugs-questions/180397/161

Riyuk: 429 Too Many Requests

struct: refresh

Riyuk: seems it's unavailable for a while

lifetimeLearner007: thnx euler

thanhvuxx122: hello world

ZarthaxX: hai

ashikujjaman: can I see the code of others?

ZarthaxX: tooooooooooooooad

eulerscheZahl: polar bear

WINWINWIN: :D

ZarthaxX: howdy

eulerscheZahl: still your toad #1

ZarthaxX: #2 in lb tho

ZarthaxX: you gotta fix that issue

WINWINWIN: He already did :D

ZarthaxX: i see his second

ZarthaxX: him

eulerscheZahl: wait till tomorrow

eulerscheZahl: royale missed top100 in the contest

ZarthaxX: oh..

ZarthaxX: that's an f

ZarthaxX: need to check that lb

WINWINWIN: Anyone use sublime text?

WINWINWIN: I tried coding offline and copy pasting but I am getting this error

WINWINWIN: TabError: inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation

WINWINWIN: python3

ZarthaxX: didnt sublime go pay to use?

WINWINWIN: :/ I dont pay

eulerscheZahl: i use atom

WINWINWIN: It asks me to I just click remind me later

ZarthaxX: weird, i got that problem in linux

ZarthaxX: yeah i know that window :P

WINWINWIN: Never got an error till now :P

ZarthaxX: atom is cool

ZarthaxX: doesnt vscode do the job anyway?

WINWINWIN: But why is that error coming?

WINWINWIN: TabError: inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation

ZarthaxX: did you google?

ZarthaxX: ah that's a python error

WINWINWIN: Says something about inconsistent spacing

eulerscheZahl: i never really tried VS code

struct: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5685406/inconsistent-use-of-tabs-and-spaces-in-indentation

RoboStac: it means you've got both tabs and spaces at the start of lines

RoboStac: so it can't work out the program flow

ZarthaxX: structooo :*

struct: hi ZarthaxX

WINWINWIN: Hmm, thanks ZarthaxX

WINWINWIN: Will just run a replace in python3 online

RoboStac: the stub codes here appear to be space indented, so there might be a setting you can change in sublime to use spaces instead of tabs

WINWINWIN: thanks RoboStac

ashikujjaman: what is your code length for spring challenge

egaetan: 2,5k

Uljahn: i used some imports in python, should i count underlying code to? :thinking:

ashikujjaman: @Uljahn NO

eulerscheZahl: 1.5k lines

BenjaminUrquhart: I used a number of lines

struct: .13€ per line

ashikujjaman: I am in silver an my code is 500 lines

BenjaminUrquhart: struct nice JS bot btw

struct: yes I got to bronze and never made a bot

Uljahn: tutubalin was able to reach wood1 with 100 chars in js :)

ashikujjaman: @eulerscheZahl may ask you which algorithm you have used?

Uljahn: what is forum, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: and as you can see

Gonny: 1.5k too, too long if you ask me...

struct: That seems a lot

struct: 100 lines

eulerscheZahl: beam search for path finding

ashikujjaman: anyone used AI (I am poorly know about AI)

ashikujjaman: @eulerscheZahl thanks

eulerscheZahl: storing a lot of nodes for possible locations for each opponent. removing some when i can exclude them (e.g. seeing a pellet => opponent hasn't been there)

eulerscheZahl: bruteforce for kills

Brokolis: In the rock-paper-scissors war puzzle, in the example there are 2 papers on the lowest row, however, I fail to see how

Brokolis: It says that you can wage war on at most 4 fronts, so the top row C's would beat bottom row P's, making rows equal

Brokolis: And then for 3 remaining rounds they would both mvoe one left

Brokolis: How is it that there are 2P's at the end on the 2nd row?

Brokolis: Nevermind, I am dumb

Brokolis: It also goes left

MSmits: eulerscheZahl I think it's funny you started with MC but found it to work badly and switched to beamsearch and made it work well. I started with beamsearch and i couldnt code it properly and switched to MC which worked well

ashikujjaman: does depth first search always go the maximum depth node

eulerscheZahl: :D

BenWo: morning

MSmits: ashikujjaman no it doesnt

MSmits: it just explores the most recently added node first

MSmits: but you might find a short path that way

MSmits: it's just not guaranteed

wlesavo: fun fact, my rank is exactly twice of my team rank 68 vs 34

MSmits: I rank exactly 1 above your team :P

MSmits: btw what is your team, company or school?

MSmits: my school never got enough participants, though I was happy with Thiesjoo

aCat: woah somone kicked from legend?

ashikujjaman: MSmits I want to find a maximum length path where all node is 1 can I do it with one dfs

struct: yes aCat

wlesavo: school, not many people had time to participate this time, last time we were 2nd

aCat: less people now

MSmits: oh, nice wlesavo

MSmits: 2nd

MSmits: ashikujjaman what do you mean 1?

MSmits: node = 1?

MSmits: you mean each node counts as 1?

ashikujjaman: cosider a graph have all node 0 and 1

MSmits: and you want to find the path with the most nodes?

MSmits: hm ok

wlesavo: but last time it was different because many people were only participating by company

Scarfield: 0 = not visited, 1 = visited?

ashikujjaman: no

MSmits: so it's just a property true or false ashikujjaman?

ashikujjaman: 1 not visited 0 visited

MSmits: oh

aCat: we defended #1 uni :-)

MSmits: gj

eulerscheZahl: aCat you might miss the following players: kord mataranga FrenchKiss

wlesavo: wow, pb already made alternative ranking post

Marchete: well, wroclaw is a lot higher than 2nd place

ashikujjaman: @MSmits can I personally message you

Marchete: 38k vs 36k

MSmits: yes

eulerscheZahl: he's about to cleanup his script and then share that too. how the alternative ranking is done

Anonymous_007: Anyone can help me solved it C++?

eulerscheZahl: i'm 14th in official vs 11th in alternative

eulerscheZahl: 2nd and 3rd switched

MSmits: ah, not too bad

MSmits: was expecting worse

eulerscheZahl: expect for 2nd/3rd, top7 is consistent

aCat: not so much, they are 36.9

BenjaminUrquhart: "So this is not about where the pac was, but where it wasn’t." MSmits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ

journeyvivek: hello

journeyvivek: khoi hindi bath karthe

MSmits: lol BenjaminUrquhart

wlesavo: lol im exactly at the same place

struct: So long since i used SDK :'(

aCat: I know the pain struct

aCat: everything is forgotten

eulerscheZahl: the SDK changed a lot since locam anyways

struct: The statement live editor

struct: is great

struct: I wish I had it while I made Yavalath statement

eulerscheZahl: doesn't work for leagues

BenjaminUrquhart: fall challenge appears to be a solo puzzle btw

struct: I enjoy having full rules at start

struct: so it doesnt bother me

aCat: where is this live editor oO

aCat: never heard of it

Uljahn: did you know zuko3D used neural networks in LoCaM contest (one for pick and another for play)? he told us today on ru, so we asked him to write a pm...

struct: http://localhost:8888/statement.html

eulerscheZahl: and ceg complains about the alternative ranking already

eulerscheZahl: there is also stub.html

aCat: thanks i will remember about this trick

eulerscheZahl: no. you will forget it when you need it

aCat: hey

aCat: i bookmarked it :D

aCat: (but yes, you're true)

wlesavo: there also is a http://localhost:8888/stub.html

cegprakash: me is disappointed

cegprakash: https://forum.codingame.com/t/spring-challenge-2020-feedback-strategy/184113/39?u=cegprakash

eulerscheZahl: "there is also stub.html" thanks wlesavo ;)

wlesavo: oh

wlesavo: i need to learn to read

wlesavo: :slight_smile:

struct: I decided to allow both viewer types for Yinsh

struct: both line viewer and hex

struct: You will be able to change

eulerscheZahl: cegprakash the alternative ranking is purely based on your measured performance of the last submission in the arena

eulerscheZahl: https://pastebin.com/4Kxk7x2r

MSmits: Yinsh doesnt have hidden information does it?

struct: no

MSmits: great

eulerscheZahl: a toggle?

struct: yes euler

eulerscheZahl: cool

wlesavo: ceg you shouldve keept a lucky submition before rerun started, anyway thats what i did, otherwise i would join you at the bottom

MSmits: when do you aim to have it finished? Want me to take a look at it? I wont code an entire bot yet, but just at your description and the game rules?

struct: 3 days

MSmits: allright, warn me when i should be looking at it

cegprakash: where is the ranking eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: where is which ranking?

eulerscheZahl: the chart as text?

cegprakash: it has 3000 lines

cegprakash: u said alternate ranking

eulerscheZahl: that's p1 p2 with winrate

eulerscheZahl: this fine was used to generate the alternative ranking

eulerscheZahl: so when you got lots of losses there, you will be at the bottom

cegprakash: I did not even get matches

cegprakash: I rarely lost

MSmits: cegprakash it's sad you got stuck at low legend, but still quite an achievement to even get to legend. This is a big contest with strong competition. Well done.

aCat: legeeend .....

aCat: so near so far......

aCat: ;(;(;(

MSmits: even top gold is not easy here aCat

MSmits: not with 5k size

MSmits: 150 gold in this contest is equivalent to 50 legend in a normal contest

MSmits: because 3x size

eulerscheZahl: closer to 2x

MSmits: depends, xmas rush was 1k

MSmits: so 5x

eulerscheZahl: and assuming that the new players are equally skilled as the veterans

MSmits: i think it drew more good players as well

eulerscheZahl: the topcoder guys were strong, no doubt

MSmits: it's kind of weird, the last few contests went worse for me than the first few even though I think I got better. Maybe slightly less obsessed. Can it be the opposition is better than when i started 2 years ago?

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl did u invite them

cegprakash: how did they get to know

Insufficient: i found this website from errichto's youtube videos

Insufficient: he is a strong competitive coder and active on a lot of the sites like topcoder etc

MSmits: Insufficient how do you like CG so far?

[CG]Thibaud: yeah he streamed a few challenges before

MSmits: It's basically all i know

cegprakash: MSmits u are probably better at working with non hidden information games

[CG]Thibaud: he told me he hadn't the time for Spring Challenge this time

MSmits: cegprakash could be true yes

Insufficient: it's really great and different from other stuff i've seen, and it's a really nice mix of competitive programming and gaming in a way

cegprakash: I am usually good with board games. That's why this rank is disappointing for me

Insufficient: and it's an interesting community of people with different skills and backgrounds

MSmits: agreed

AntiSquid: what about the streamer i suggested [CG]Thibaud ? were you worried you get too many participants? :p

Marchete: a lot of hobbyist coders, like smits

Marchete: a bit weird

[CG]Thibaud: I lacked a bit of time

eulerscheZahl: whom did you suggest AntiSquid?

Marchete: but they are much better than others

[CG]Thibaud: Ocean of Code didn't help

[CG]Thibaud: Sendex

MSmits: are you saying I'm weird Marchete

MSmits: or is it weird that there are a lot of hobbyist coders

MSmits: or both?

eulerscheZahl: or do you want a lawyer?

MSmits: lol

struct: hmm this design doesnt look bad does it?

struct: http://www.brettspielwelt.de/img/Hilfe/Anleitungen/Yinsh/image1.jpg

MSmits: I do prefer when the cells are visible a bit more clearly

MSmits: unless there is a debug mode or something

MSmits: In the other Y, the layout of the board is very clear

struct: Ill see what I can do

struct: I need to fix referee first before i go into design

MSmits: sure

MSmits: take it easy

struct: Thanks for the feedback

MSmits: quality > speed

Marchete: I say it's weird a hobbyist outperforms 99% of paid coders

MSmits: oh ok

MSmits: well i'm weird too, so that would be ok

MSmits: i'm not a total hobbyist anymore since i am studying to be a CS teacher

MSmits: working on an AI class now

MSmits: well i did everything in 4 days so i am mostly waiting for the test

Marchete: you know what I mean

MSmits: yeah i knoe

MSmits: it is strange

eulerscheZahl: you will forget all the content again till your exam

AntiSquid: how many of them are coders and not just students / other kind of IT staff ?

MSmits: eulerscheZahl 50% that was in the class i already knew, so its not that much risk

eulerscheZahl: i'm kidding

MSmits: i know that too :P

jrke: hey any body knows how to gain charge in OOC i just started OOC plz

MSmits: oh, thiesjoo said he was maybe going to pick a CG game for his research project for the final year of high school

MSmits: to test some search algorithm

AntiSquid: euler this streamer https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfzlCWGWYyIQ0aLC5w48gBQ and unlike codingbullet who has 2 million, he has far more useful content

struct: MOVE DIR SKILL_TO_CHARGE

MSmits: kinda cool

AntiSquid: 2 mil followers i meant

dbdr: codingbullet is entertaining, not informative :)

jrke: what struct

struct: you output

AntiSquid: what would you call instafluff dbdr ?

struct: "move dir skill_to_charge"

jrke: K

jrke: thanks

dbdr: who's instafluff?

AntiSquid: a streamer

MSmits: it's the gerbil guy!

dbdr: what's gerbil?

AntiSquid: the one with clouds and plushies and balloons all over the screen

AntiSquid: he has no gerbil lol

MSmits: he did have a gerbil

MSmits: sec

AntiSquid: basically a rodent dbdr

MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard/global

MSmits: rank 36

dbdr: :D

MSmits: gerbil

AntiSquid: maybe he is awesome streamer for kids

SujalAI: is the pacman thing back

AntiSquid: that's not the streamer though, it's one of his minions who follow him

struct: Does the gerbil work on chat 🐹?

MSmits: oh it's a hamster AntiSquid

dbdr: wait, #36 is a logo

MSmits: it's hamster guy

MSmits: :hamster:

AntiSquid: #525 gold

AntiSquid: that's the streamer

SujalAI: Is the pacman thing back as a game?

AntiSquid: https://www.twitch.tv/instafluff dbdr

MSmits: then he got beat by his minion hamster guy

dbdr: not yet I think SujalAI

Uljahn: yes, for premium accounts

MSmits: can you have a hamster in your name?

dbdr: I just finished implemented two tracking features I did not have time for, just had to

dbdr: so waiting for the multi too :)

MSmits: ouch, i cant do that dbdr, i dont want to risk getting a bot that is much better, then regretting not coding it sooner

dbdr: lol

dbdr: I usually don't

PrivateBrocolliOfDoom_bb03: i cant even beat the art one

dbdr: now it just felt right

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: Illedan always continues after hash code

MSmits: after the deadline

AntiSquid: MSmits it's more like a sorcerer conjuring a powerful demon hamster lol

MSmits: I see

dbdr: next step requires a time machine

PrivateBrocolliOfDoom_bb03: im gonna do the labyrinth

MSmits: good puzzle to learn from PrivateBrocolliOfDoom_bb03

dbdr: that pseudo :D

sha-man: guys, in the first thor puzzle, the position of thor in a given moment is equal to the initial variable ???

AntiSquid: well it is a super food MSmits

MSmits: a hamster is?

MSmits: dont think the hamster would agree

AntiSquid: brocolli

MSmits: o

elderlybeginner: how to turn off editor suggestions?

MSmits: sha-man, you need to update the initial position every time you output a move

MSmits: otherwise it stays the same

PrivateBrocolliOfDoom_bb03: i cant solve power of thor ;-;

sha-man: ohh....

sha-man: jeez... wish the problem told me that 2 hours ago

MSmits: it helps if you output error messages, they dont count as normal output

MSmits: you can use this to debug and learn how the input/output system work

jrke: when it will be released as classic game

PrivateBrocolliOfDoom_bb03: temp

sha-man: I thought the initial variable keeps updating as he moves :S

MSmits: no, the only thing that happens is that you are given input

MSmits: everything else you have to do yourself

struct: sha-man, only the stuff inside the while loop keeps updating

struct: In some games this is the case

struct: and some puzzles

MSmits: so the input gets assigned to some variable, usually local, so you need to make it global or store it somewhere outside the loop

MSmits: that is, if the puzzle gives new input over several "turns"

MSmits: not sure what thor is like

MSmits: too long ago

BenjaminUrquhart: WakaTime: [weekly] report for 2020-05-11 until 2020-05-17 (no data)

BenjaminUrquhart: sounds right

MSmits: What's a waka?

Hjax: the noise pacman makes when he moves around? wakawakawakawaka

ZarthaxX: lmao

MSmits: ohh true

MSmits: wakawakawaka

cegprakash: Bronze was too hard league considering tons of ppl stuck there. There should definitely be a Bronze II and Bronze I

AntiSquid: so shakira is a pacman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRpeEdMmmQ0

AntiSquid: oh league divisions would be nice, but playing people only with 100 ranks range is also nice

struct: Yeah

struct: we need 100 leagues

dbdr: 5k leagues

dbdr: only remaining problem is the ordering of the leagues

AntiSquid: no need if you only play people around your rank

AntiSquid: much easier fix

struct: Maybe 1 league per player?

dbdr: ^

AntiSquid: why just 1

AntiSquid: if you want a trainwreck do it properly

eulerscheZahl: i want a single player. not bothering with other players in my match

struct: Wow great idea, we should take with cg

struct: talk*

AntiSquid: FOW mitigation ? what's that? zasmu mentions it in his PM

eulerscheZahl: fow 0 fog of war

eulerscheZahl: =

AntiSquid: bloody acronyms ...

eulerscheZahl: damn TLAs

eulerscheZahl: but i agree. i tend to spell out words when i'm not sure everyone will understand them

eulerscheZahl: i even write coders strike back instead of CSB usually

eulerscheZahl: at least when talking to newbies

dbdr: single player, right. we could call it, I don't know.... optim? :)

eulerscheZahl: that sounds too competitive

eulerscheZahl: almost like having leagues

dbdr: puzzle?

eulerscheZahl: yeah. let's have a puzzle contest. but without the time pressure thing

eulerscheZahl: everyone is a winner

Illedan: Anyone started to make a pacman Optimization yet?

Illedan: 1-5 pacmans, clear the map as fast as possible

Illedan: only movement

eulerscheZahl: nah

kovi: psyho will win that

AntiSquid: contest wasn't far from that

MonZtaDeluxe: is somehow the ide down?

MonZtaDeluxe: or is it me only

eulerscheZahl: someone wanted to make a code a la mode optim

BenjaminUrquhart: contest ended MonZtaDeluxe if that's what you're trying to do

Illedan: too wierd controls in calm

MonZtaDeluxe: i'm in code4life game

BenjaminUrquhart: ah

Illedan: pac is just 1 cell moving

AntiSquid: sometimes it breaks, you need to refresh MonZtaDeluxe

eulerscheZahl: collisions?

BenjaminUrquhart: it's talking longer than usual for it to load for me

MonZtaDeluxe: (i refresh 3x already) nvm - i have my code offline so i will try later

Illedan: make them simpler euler

Illedan: let them move in the sequence of actions..

AntiSquid: the viewer bugged a lot during contest

Illedan: only collide if the next is occupied

eulerscheZahl: you mean no parallel movement?

AntiSquid: maybe they should collect fluff instead of pellets too ?

JBM: no parallel fifths!!!

SujalAI: Has anyone used ML?

JBM: sorry flashback

Illedan: parallell, but 1 by 1 on the same frame :D

thethiny: is the link to play the competition for fun up?

BenjaminUrquhart: not yet

thethiny: thanks

Illedan: eulerscheZahl has a contribution

Illedan: if you wanna play

eulerscheZahl: should be soon. announced for today

BenjaminUrquhart: also the IDE died for me so that's cool

thethiny: I'm tryna make an offline interface for brutaltester

eulerscheZahl: i did a cleanup on my contributions :D

thethiny: where you can convert the output json into replays

Illedan: ah

eulerscheZahl: you just have to start the webserver (part of the SDK) and place the json file in a folder where the SDK finds it

thethiny: or you can load the frame and give it the json file

thethiny: since replays are basically json loaders

AntiSquid: huge CP boost tomorrow

thethiny: the referee code already contains the js and assets

AntiSquid: oh i failed once again to reach top 50, but didn't try as hard this time at least

eulerscheZahl: i think this time top50 was harder than usual

AntiSquid: but i feel like i massively fucked up more than usual

dbdr: indeed, only 50 people succeeded

BenjaminUrquhart: such a profound statement

struct: There are plenty of multies you can get top 50 easily

struct: without any effor

struct: t

cegprakash: what are they struct

cegprakash: someone cheated and beat me on country ranking

cegprakash: I need to beathim

Csipcsirip: lol dbdr

wlesavo: first 68 succeeded

struct: The ones that dont have 50 players

GeekNbOne: Anybody has achievement not updated after a puzzle?

cegprakash: here is my exact code that finds the best move I used in spring challenge https://prnt.sc/sj4sck

AntiSquid: so you have a random search

cegprakash: yes for 23 ms I do random search

cegprakash: followed by 23ms on mutations

cegprakash: a validSim is a sim where I don't self collide

cegprakash: because I don't know how to handle that in the eval

Csipcsirip: why dont u just goto to the bottom of the while. goto is fun

Csipcsirip: if(validsim) no fun

cegprakash: haha

Csipcsirip: you can make a matrix of occupied cell history btw. so you can exclude moves where you'd collide, instead of handling collision later

cegprakash: I felt this was easier

cegprakash: what u say might work

cegprakash: but again

cegprakash: u'll have to ignore many simulations

cegprakash: oh wait..

cegprakash: getRandomSolution function may be slow

cegprakash: if we do what u say

Csipcsirip: you should prune moves anyways

Csipcsirip: not fully random

SujalAI: Has anyone done code vs zombies?

SujalAI: I'm stuck on split second reflex

Csipcsirip: you can read what top players did back then

Csipcsirip: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/code-vs-zombies-feedback-strategies/1089

Frankly: is the spring challenge going to stay online? it looks like the arena is still available

struct: They will release it tomorrow

aCat: nice

aCat: will it finally get some name?

wlesavo: aPac

dbdr: I call is pac2020

wlesavo: nice one

wlesavo: like warcraft2000

MSmits: PacWars2020

MSmits: I see you're back to being a pussy wlesavo

MSmits: or didnt you change your avatar before?

wlesavo: the other one was also a pussy

eulerscheZahl: finally the old wlesavo is back

wlesavo: changed it after the end of recalc

eulerscheZahl: still cached

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: struct 08:03PM They will release it tomorrow

not today?

eulerscheZahl: oh, just saw it on discord

tutubalin: somebody mentioned me here, but i cannot see message now

tutubalin: could you please repeat your message?

eulerscheZahl: i can mention you now if it makes you happy.

eulerscheZahl: tutubalin

struct: I think someone said you reached wood 1 in 100 lines of js

tutubalin: are, yes ) i will post my code in post mortem

tutubalin: eulerscheZahl thank you! i mention you back )

eulerscheZahl: :wave:

d0npr0n: Where can I continue improving my Bot for the Spring challenge? Cant seem to find it...

eulerscheZahl: tomorrow

eulerscheZahl: will be in compete/multiplayer

d0npr0n: ah ok, thanks

Csipcsirip: is there an existing UCB algorithm where the node tree is not a tree but a 2d grid, or I invented something new ?

struct: how does it work?

Csipcsirip: basically thats all. 2d array of visits and rewards. and I have an extra 2d array of visit counts of cells in the actual simulation. to punish in the UCB formula the cells, that are visited multiple times in one iteration.

Csipcsirip: I came up with the idea during the contest but didnt know how to handle crosses that should be visited multiple times

Csipcsirip: it converges pretty quickly 200 itereaion with 40 depth. cant wait to try it out in pacman multi

MSmits: not sure if it is compatible with traditional mcts type algorithms

MSmits: but it sounds interesting

Csipcsirip: oh and I have a separate matrices for each pacman. and each pacman gets a percentage of other pacmans rewards

MSmits: sounds a bit like how i did PCR

MSmits: basically my smitsi algorithm with a score per chip and an overall team score, but my way doesnt work that well on grids where movement can be blocked

MSmits: if you can do something similar but with a fix, i'd be very interested in reading about it

Csipcsirip: yeah I got the idea from smitsimax. thats what I used in contest

MSmits: ohh

Csipcsirip: with this "colllaboration coefficien"

MSmits: but you didnt use actual smitsimax right? an idea that just shared some similarities?

MSmits: because i've been telling people it wont work for spring challenge

MSmits: I would feel guilty :P

Csipcsirip: I think its very similar to smitsimax. ucb tree for each pacmans

MSmits: ah ok

Csipcsirip: pacmen*

MSmits: but dont they get in eachothers way?

Csipcsirip: no because of they get a percentage of other pacs rewards

MSmits: hmm ok

KnightMoves: I also used Smitsimax 😄

MSmits: lol

KnightMoves: I did have to make some changes, but it got me to legend

eulerscheZahl: you are a new user, do you even know what that is? :D

MSmits: well it shouldn't work, the fact that you guys got it to work, is your achievement :)

KnightMoves: Luckily he wrote an article about it! I found a link to it on the one of the other challenges, and thought it would be good for this contest

MSmits: good thought apparently

MSmits: reminds me of xmas rush where half the top 10 used it even though it shouldnt have worked there either

Csipcsirip: I needed a very strong rollout heuristics tho. struggled with it for days

MSmits: I guess it's because nothing really *works* in games like this. You start with some idea and adapt it until it does what you want, but nothing is perfect

Quidome: I don't get XP for solved puzzles at the moment

jacek: oO

karliso: I guess it's because nothing really *works* in games like this. ---- so true, I wasted so much time trying various adnavced search approaches none all of which gave significant improvement.

KnightMoves: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/9d31fb82-2d22-4772-9e2f-48f4de3d6ba1

KnightMoves: i guess you can't send long messages...

MSmits: i read it, yeah you could be right

MSmits: reading other people's PM, there are many valid approaches here

jacek: ifletons for the win

MSmits: ifletons?

eulerscheZahl: if else

MSmits: o

karliso: What I tried was: use my tracking to build a potential opponent game state and then search from his side... the use his moves and simulate my turn to make good moves... and so on recursively deeper..

karliso: But it wasn't any better than simple approach.

MSmits: i was afraid it wouldn't be so I tried to keep it simple. Simple was hard enough

MSmits: also damn... what did you do to uttt :P

karliso: I improved by base code, was working on it for a while.

MSmits: ohh ok

karliso: MSmits GW=96,26% [ W=94,25% L=1,72% D=4,02% ] [522]

               Nagrarok    GW=96,61%    [ W=94,92%   L=1,69%    D=3,39%   ] [531]
                shummie    GW=96,62%    [ W=95,06%   L=1,83%    D=3,11%   ] [547]
            -- TOTAL --    GW=96,50%    [ W=94,75%   L=1,75%    D=3,50%   ] [1600 games] [2 crash(es)]

karliso: From white side

MSmits: wow thats crazy

eulerscheZahl: what game is this?

MSmits: uttt

karliso: I feel mentally exhausted, feel like need a break.

MSmits: take a break so i can figure out whats different about your bot :P

MSmits: but grats

karliso: btw, I found a weakness in your opening book from a white side...

MSmits: i do too

MSmits: i found it already

MSmits: its my teccles heuristic

MSmits: its imperfect

MSmits: beatable

eulerscheZahl: oh, you are first again. congrats!

karliso: No, I meant you said you have 100% as white

MSmits: in your old bot

MSmits: that version I did a 300 game cg bench against you and won all 300

MSmits: as p1

MSmits: as soon as you change 1 thing it no longer holds of course

karliso: Yea, but I didnt take moves back.. but added even more

MSmits: ahh I see

MSmits: you do realize that makes it easy for me to counter you again?

karliso: Now the forced line is eve nlonger.. :D

MSmits: best is to have less moves

MSmits: instead of more

karliso: yeah, but i can turn it off any time

MSmits: true

MSmits: btw

karliso: Just trying to make a point.

MSmits: something has been bugging me and also re curse

MSmits: do you really get 400k rollouts during a normal turn?

MSmits: we think that has to be impossible, especially re curse who has been trying hard to get his higher a while ago... it helped a bit but nowhere enough

KnightMoves: on turn 2?

MSmits: yes

jacek: 400k? and here i am poor within 15k

karliso: I think rollout count is not that important, but I do get a lot

KnightMoves: the highest i could get is 20k...

MSmits: I get 130k at the most with a good cpu and I think re curse about 180k or more

KnightMoves: are there any good resources for how to optimize like that? I did pretty much every thing i could think of and hit a limit

MSmits: c++ ?

KnightMoves: yeah

KnightMoves: i'm using bitboards

jacek: GCC optimizations?

MSmits: making the random rollout fast is important

MSmits: its quite costly

KnightMoves: yeah i use #pragma GCC optimize "O3,omit-frame-pointer,inline"

jacek: yours random? i thought it was 1-ply win

MSmits: huh what?

MSmits: i dont always get jacek humor :P

darkhorse64: On oware

jacek: if can win, use that move. otherwise random

MSmits: oh

jacek: or your rollouts are compleetely random

karliso: My 1st turn could look like this:

karliso: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/71b8984d-9227-403c-912a-d3025cc778f1

MSmits: hmm it's quasi random yes

MSmits: but what are these countes karliso?

MSmits: do you rollout a game all the way to the end and count that as a single visit?

jacek: not everything i say is humorours

karliso: More or less

eulerscheZahl: is that a joke jacek?

MSmits: no i know, i just dont get it right away jacek :P

JBM: i found it funny

JBM: not sure if joke tho

MSmits: karliso do you use fancy AVX stuff or other tricks noone knows about? No need to tell them

karliso: I do use AVX for node selection only

MSmits: oh I tried that

MSmits: didnt get it to work properly

MSmits: well, it wasnt any faster anyway

MSmits: do you think it helped you a lot?

karliso: It was not a big improvement if i recall correctly

MSmits: also, do you rollout from 1 chid on each expansion or all children at once (like some other players). This second method gives way more rollouts

karliso: I have already answered this question before

MSmits: sorry

MSmits: i thought you said 1 child then

karliso: I said somethign else

MSmits: i just have a hard time understanding your high numbers

MSmits: was i online when you said this? I dont remember, or maybe i misunderstood

karliso: You asked me this

MSmits: oh

Astrobytes: (they don't call him Memory Smits for nothing :P )

MSmits: lol

MSmits: damn, i wish i'd remember, seems important

karliso: I feel like doing node selection for each node is not the right approach in this game.

MSmits: what do you mean node selection for each node?

MSmits: you somehow go down the tree differently?

MSmits: or wait... maybe you prune lots of moves

karliso: You could select one node and expand one child.

karliso: Which could probably give more accurate scores.

MSmits: you mean select it heuristically?

MSmits: to get better moves?

karliso: Yeah, one could select one child as heuristic

MSmits: like... expand a winning move first?

MSmits: that wins a miniboard

karliso: And rollout only 1, but I feel like you should expand al childs.

MSmits: hmm ok

karliso: Ahh, I think I misunderstood

karliso: You asked something else

MSmits: my question was mostly about how a rollout is defined, to somehow explain the high numbers

MSmits: but if you have to give away too much to even explain how you define a rollout, you shouldnt say

karliso: Select a node and rollout of each cild is defined as a separate count

MSmits: ok

MSmits: so you select a node, expand it, it gets 9 children and it counts as 9 visits because you do 9 playouts to end?

karliso: Roughly so

MSmits: ahhh, that totally explains the numbers!

MSmits: this is what darkhorse does and he insists it's better, while I cant get it to work better

MSmits: but i get many more rollouts that way

darkhorse64: I do that but I do not get 400k

MSmits: no, but i do get nearly twice as many and if i were re curse and adapted my bot i could get to 400k

MonZtaDeluxe: anybody got an idea in code4life how to decide if a sample is diagnosed or undiagnosed?

MonZtaDeluxe: i guess i'm too drunk to read this from the description

MSmits: karliso thanks for explaining, this has been bugging me for a while :)

eulerscheZahl: -1 value = undiagnosed

4candles: Hi all, I'm a beginner here and don't understand how I can debug to see the state of my variables at each frame. Can anyone help please?

MonZtaDeluxe: danke <3

darkhorse64: You mean my implementation sucks ? Guess you may be right :grimacing:

Hjax: try printing your variables to stderr 4candles

MSmits: no, i am saying both ours suck compared to re curses powerhouse :P

4candles: Thanks. I did, It just complains that it is not the output it is looking for.

Hjax: 4candles print to stderr not stdout

4candles: That is the bit I need help with :)

MSmits: but karliso is right, rollouts is less important than other factors

Hjax: what language are you using?

4candles: Python

MSmits: i just didnt like not knowing why the high numbers

eulerscheZahl: the default code should have a commented line directly before the print

Hjax: @4candles import sys sys.stderr.write(myvariable) sys.stderr.flush()

4candles: thank you i will try it

4candles: that is different to the comment

eulerscheZahl: different ways to do the same thing

eulerscheZahl: flush is important though

Miarem: MSmits, i still don't see why there should be such be difference for rolling out 1 or all childs

Miarem: i tried both... and got more or less same numbers

Miarem: around 100k

MSmits: selection is expensive

MSmits: I think I got nearly 200k for rolling out all children

MSmits: selection goes less deep and happens far less ofte

Hjax: what game are we talking about? UTTT?

MSmits: yes

Miarem: it is not a game!

Miarem: don't dare to play with it

MSmits: it is life?

Miarem: indeed, it'll consume your life

jacek: dont play with it! youll get blind!

Miarem: :D

eulerscheZahl: it's Pandora's box

MSmits: so i was right Miarem

MSmits: i am not who you should watch out for in uttt :)

Astrobytes: More like the Hellraiser Puzzle Box

Miarem: by the way

MSmits: karliso is 5 points ahead of you and 2 points ahead of me :P

Miarem: whut!?

MSmits: yepp

KnightMoves: if you're rolling out all the children, do you still use UCT?

MSmits: yes, during selection

MSmits: its only the expanded node's children you roll out from

MSmits: so at most 9 rollouts at the start

MSmits: per iteration

MSmits: you just play more games per selection round

MSmits: it works in many games

Hjax: when i was messing around with UCT i wasnt sure if it was better to rollout all children or not

KnightMoves: yeah makes sense, i think i'll give that a try

karliso: Would be cool if someone challenged my bot.

WINWINWIN: multi out yet?

MSmits: I use it in Yavalath, which means a whopping 50+ rollouts per iteration at the start

eulerscheZahl: got delayed till tomorrow WINWINWIN

WINWINWIN: K

MSmits: challenged how? I will be researching your opening book at least karliso. Primarily not even to beat you, just because it interests me to figure out what makes someone win at this game

KnightMoves: besides making your bots play UTTT, have you played much?

MSmits: the teccles heuristic is really interesting to me also. Still not sure why it works

karliso: Well I dont have much of an opening book MSmits

KnightMoves: I'm curious if anyone has an intuitive sense for the game

Miarem: i'm accepting the challenge! : )

MSmits: hmm, then it is deterministic because of something else karliso

MSmits: your old version almost always did the same moves

karliso: the teccles heuristic is really interesting to me also. Still not sure why it works

karliso: I have some insights

jacek: teccless heuristic?

jacek: make move to the same board?

MSmits: it means when you're on an empty board, you send the opponent to the same board

MSmits: yes

Miarem: oh... that is forbidden knowledge!

karliso: * First, you don't want to win board by giving free move

karliso: This avoids it.

jacek: when i play against computer it seems its doing that

MSmits: but it's an opening game gambit... so there are no finished boards yet karliso

Miarem: so lucky to drop in here, tonight : )

karliso: * secondly (from a white player side) it increases variance.

Miarem: so many insights

karliso: * thirdly you usually dont want to win board 3 vs 0:

MSmits: ah yes that last one i did realize

MSmits: you want him to waste moves

karliso: Like you play board... and opponent sends you here again...

karliso: If you make 2 in a row... then if you play you either win 3 v 0 or make a useless move.. or he plays and he can block you

MSmits: makes sense yes

MSmits: up to now, i have never found proof of a situation where the teccles heuristic is weaker than another move

karliso: I have seen games...

MSmits: but I think it might be... not sure yet

MSmits: yes games, but i mean from a meta mcts perspective, running millions of games, doing research on this

karliso: But it is usually last open board or close to that .. and potentially some board has already been won

MSmits: i find better winrates for teccles heuristic

MSmits: oh, last open board yes

MSmits: that is possible

MSmits: you need to get quite deep to test that

MSmits: didnt get around to testing that deep yet

MSmits: well I'm glad someone else shares my fascination with this game :P

Miarem: Something wrong happened (-2)

MSmits: lol

Miarem: this is what my uTTT page says

eulerscheZahl: the error code is -5 for you

Miarem: i know, it sounds like a lame excuse, but i can't load the multi : )

MSmits: oh lol, i thought you were kidding

MSmits: like euler is :)

Cappefra: ok I can now tell 100% that contests are amazing for improving algo skills

MSmits: for sure

Miarem: well, i keep refreshing the page, but results is the same

eulerscheZahl: and now you can read the forum to see what others did (if you haven't already)

MSmits: wont load for me either miarem

jacek: youre banned from uttt forever

MSmits: hehe

MSmits: it loaded!

Miarem: yeah, i got it as welll

Miarem: i think it's karliso's dirty hack

tutubalin: eulerscheZahl nice replay with 2 traps! i like your approach

MSmits: maybe :)

Miarem: i just wanted to watch some karliso-karliso games : )

MSmits: an unstoppable force vs immovable object?

eulerscheZahl: i even found a replay where i killed 3 out of 5 opponents. an still lost!

Miarem: exactly!

Miarem: it seems pretty predefined

Miarem: at turn 33 X get a win

Miarem: 5 games in a row

tutubalin: when i fixed a bug in enemy tracking, i dropped 600 places down

Miarem: and he doesn't call it an opening book?!

MSmits: well its possible it is deterministic

MSmits: might not be opening book

MSmits: sometimes bots will just always react the same way

MSmits: minimax is worse like that

Miarem: anyway, it is easy to overcome this

MSmits: I did it before, to all 3 of you, so yeah

MSmits: but i am more interested in just making my bot better

karliso: Actually It is opennig boook... but those 30 or so move from both sides is like half of my opening book moves, lol.

MSmits: by learning tricks about the game, better heuristics etc

MSmits: karliso, one time i noticed your games vs re curse went almost 20 deep with no change

MSmits: that was also a book i assume?

karliso: well... he plays a forced line....

MSmits: i know

MSmits: so you both did :P

karliso: if he didnt, i wouldt either

MSmits: same here :)

Miarem: all games and at 51st turn

MSmits: its a funyn situation

MSmits: funny

MSmits: you do realize us 4 are the only ones doing this

MSmits: the rest of uttt is book-clean

Miarem: pure kids

MSmits: and i cant write an opening book to counter any of them, a book is useless vs them

MSmits: i tried and it barely helps at all

karliso: Miarem you started this...

Miarem: i think i did

Miarem: i do regret it now

MSmits: yeah you even sometimes went on the board saying things like: "well this should last me a while" after you got nr 1

karliso: It is not like I have an opening book as much as I have Opening book vs thir opening book.

MSmits: i should have realized you just updated your book right then :)

Miarem: but i'm curious how deep can we get

4candles: Another beginner question (sorry).. is there a way to insert multiple cursor to comment or (un-comment) a block at once? Thanks.

karliso: MSmitss, nagraok, shummie don't have much of an opening book and I don't ahve anything vs them either

pb4: "MSmits 21H38 the teccles heuristic is really interesting to me also. Still not sure why it works"

jacek: ctrl+/ ?

MSmits: miarem i have books that go all the way to solved status

pb4: What is that ?

MSmits: against you 3 this happens sometimes

MSmits: or at least until my bot solves it during a normal game

MSmits: pb4 its when you play an empty board

MSmits: and you pick the cell that sends your opponent to the same board

Miarem: i also have solved entries in a book, but my book is a bit outdated

MSmits: its almost always the strongest move, karliso says it may fail om the last empty board or so, but i havent seen that yet

Miarem: ,if you wish

MSmits: Miarem yeah, do you still have that book where karliso wins the 1st board on ply 12?

MSmits: or so?

MSmits: that is what boosted him hard

Miarem: i can submit a bookless commit right now

karliso: MSmits I deleted that line from my side, it was no good

Miarem: i'm going to rewrite it anyway

MSmits: yeah i couldnt use it either

karliso: (from my side)

jacek: opening books contest? what is this, early computer chess tournament

MSmits: my meta mcts would not allow me to use the same move vs miarem

dbf: jacek, it is a data compression contest :)

MSmits: jacek, yeah it is a bit strange, we're hijacking chat to discuss opening books for a while now

MSmits: I'm not sorry though, its fun :P

karliso: btw, MSmits I think side openign as black as you do migh actually be a better move.

MSmits: yeah, i learned that from re curse

struct: When are you gonna play Yavalath?

MSmits: it seems to be better indeed

MSmits: oh wait

MSmits: do you mean first move?

karliso: ad black

MSmits: like next to center cross on the side?

karliso: yeah

MSmits: I have no idea if that is better. I did not explore it enough

MSmits: because noone uses it

MSmits: re curse had it for a while, then dropped it

Miarem: my mtcs doesn't aprove this move

MSmits: mine either atm, but i meant the second move as black

MSmits: you all pick corner

MSmits: but re curse picks middle edge

MSmits: that last one seems to be better for me

Miarem: he did for a while

MSmits: i mean on the corner board

MSmits: 4th ply

MSmits: p1 plays corner, using teccles, then you and kar liso play a corner as p2

MSmits: re curse does mid edge then

jacek: why do you put space after re

MSmits: ping

struct: jace k

jacek: Automaton2000 is it ok?

Automaton2000: trying to get it to work

MSmits: dont want to spam, i know you would like torment him about uttt, but I am a nice person :P

pb4: You don't want him to read your *confidential* strategic discussion ? :D

MSmits: re curse just really hates the game

MSmits: i honestly dont want to stress him out :0

pb4: Back to :popcorn:

derjack: him?

MSmits: yes, re curse is one of our top players, does many interesting things on CG

MSmits: like pb4

Miarem: i just noticed... there are 6 Unnamed Players in uTTT legend

MSmits: alt accounts?

jacek: maybe they couldnt get into content legent

karliso: Hate and love is related

jacek: why i cant type right

karliso: They are not the opposites

MSmits: I guess you're right in a way

karliso: The opposite of love is indifference

MSmits: jacek, what did you do to karliso

MSmits: he went all philosophical suddenly

Astrobytes: Very profound

jacek: i distract him from uttt

eulerscheZahl: you are 1 day too late

karliso: No, I cant think about any game. So exhausted after the competition.

Miarem: lol, jacek i studied in the same university!

jacek: in gdansk?

MSmits: I didn't code all day yesterday because I was already too exhausted, i know the feeling karliso

Miarem: yeap, had a year of my erasmus mundus

struct: Should I leave steal on Yinsh? I think I asked this before

jacek: yes

jacek: its gonna occupy bookers for a while

karliso: MSmits, I coded all weeked. wanted to win very much, but I focused on the wrong things I believe. My approach was too complex.

MSmits: everyone did things wrong, looking from the PM's. Some people just did less wrong things than others :)

eulerscheZahl: struct we forget the rules every time when you ask once in a month

MSmits: but you did really well karliso, remember, it is 5k players

Hjax: the pacman game broke my brain

struct: euler this time Ill finish

struct: Im currently working on it

Hjax: too much uncertainty

Astrobytes: So true eulerscheZahl :D

karliso: I definitely had the best tracking I think.

struct: But to be fair I also forgot the rules :p

Astrobytes: lol ffs :D

struct: Yinsh has been on hold for 8 months

MSmits: did you post a PM karliso?

MSmits: you dont have to, just wondering

karliso: It is a bit painful to enumarate all my failed attempts to improve to search.

karliso: my search*

MSmits: very true

MSmits: sometimes it helps getting it out of your system though, it does for me

BenjaminUrquhart: Hjax I call it heuristic hell

MSmits: write through the pain!

karliso: it was a great learning experience though.

MSmits: same

MSmits: brb

Miarem: karliso, i asked before, but you didn't have a change to reply

Miarem: do you code on a daily basis?

Miarem: are software engineer?

karliso: Masters in math, self learned programmer, worked 1 year as a software engineer in a very strong team. Now unemployed

Brokolis: Why unemployed?

karliso: i have not been hired

BenjaminUrquhart: what kind of achievement is "thinker"

karliso: I look suspicious perhaps

JBM: Some form of populism

BenjaminUrquhart: oh forum likes

Brokolis: Just wondering if I can ever return to my country if master's graduate with experience cannot land a job

Astrobytes: "I look suspicious" :D

JBM: Some form of populism.

karliso: I got into CG year ago when they asked me to code Hypersonic bot as part of interview process.

JBM: You sure do

JBM: Wow hardcore

KobeL: astro, seeing your results in the competitions, you just are ;p

karliso: They were in 100ish positions and were very prod. I Made it to top 5 very soon and they still didnt hire me. :D

JBM: Have you gone with the now famous MOVE 0 0 strategy?

struct: lol

struct: They only want the best

struct: 1st or nothing

MSmits: karliso what the hell, they are nuts

JBM: Well it*did*get me to silver

MSmits: that hypersonic bot took me months to code

JBM: Make of that what you will

Brokolis: Which company if I may ask?

MSmits: and you beat it fast

Miarem: is it just me of JBM sounds like Automaton?

MSmits: he does

JBM: Can you tell us apart?

Miarem: is he?

struct: Yes, he is but with bigger delay

JBM: Let's call that that miarem test

Miarem: rofl

Astrobytes: KobeL I couldn't (and can't) participate effectively currently as I'm on dihydrocodeine for a back problem

JBM: Automaton2000 would you pass That test?

Automaton2000: do you have any idea how to do the first move

Miarem: i'm just reading a book on Turing test

JBM: Yeah it sure who lags the most TBH

KobeL: That's fair astro! I actually meant you did well

Miarem: karliso - aim for FAANG

dbf: I wish more companies ask to write Hyporsonic bots rather than whiteboard coding excercises

Astrobytes: Oh ok, not recently I'm afraid :D Did you participate in this one KobeL?

Miarem: you can definetly aim there

Brokolis: FAANG is the onl ones actually worth jumping thorugh hoops for

JBM: But are they?

Miarem: yes JBM

MSmits: what is FAANG?

dbf: facebook, amazon etc

MSmits: sounds like a team of supervillains out of a comic book

Astrobytes: An extra long tooth MSmits

MSmits: ahh

MSmits: makes total sense now Astrobytes

Miarem: companies that a ready to give 6digit sum to SWE

dbf: it is not the easiest way to have 6digits, but probably not as boring as finance

MSmits: I wouldn't know what to do with all that money

MSmits: I'd just have maybe a server room to run more instances of meta mcts.

jacek: give it to me *.*

MSmits: yeah that

Miarem: buy an amazon cluster to solve uTTT

Miarem: :)

Astrobytes: I've got a 6-digit income. If I count digits after the decimal point.

MSmits: right

JBM: Miarem: please expand

MSmits: thats the only thing i can think of

MSmits: lol Astrobytes

jacek: thats why i would by gazillion cores

dbf: I created open-book for my utt at 20$/month VPS :)

Miarem: damn it, the THING learned my name

MSmits: lol nice dbf

BenjaminUrquhart: it knows

dbf: only because I hate noise of my desktop at night

struct: How much for your bot?

MSmits: my wife doesnt let me run it at night for the same reason :)

struct: Will 200$ do?

MSmits: and because she thinks it may catch fire

wlesavo: i got like 10 digits in binary

KobeL: @Astrobytes a very crude base to get into bronze, nothing more, loads of uni work/I prefer to stream and do some easier stuff

jacek: is it intel?

MSmits: mine is

MSmits: ys

dbf: I have PC in separate room now, but I don't want to touch my utt code anymore :)

MSmits: every few months i get a bunch of new ideas for uttt and i have to work on it

Astrobytes: All good KobeL, it's all about fun at the end of the day anyways ;)

struct: I can sleep with pc turned on, but I sleep with ear plugs

MSmits: it's like a recurring thing

struct: I once left it turned on for CvZ, with no success

dbf: I think I've done most of performance fixes avaiable in java, and have no good ideas about game play

KobeL: So true @Astrobytes

Miarem: MSmits, my bookless commit ended up at #15

jacek: convert to c++

MSmits: wow

Miarem: i got really addicted to that stuff

MSmits: my bookless bot beats re curse bot with book :P

jacek: try Y

MSmits: yours too

Miarem: : )

MSmits: just not karliso's

MSmits: he's too damned strong

Astrobytes: I don't leave my PC on at night currently as my second HD is failing and so had to reduce the pagefile size, and each day it fails more and throws a nice INPAGE_ERROR

struct: your uttt is bookless?

Miarem: but i'll keep it there, for the motivation purpose

dbf: jacek, if I convert is will be just another c++ bot, and my aim is #1 in java, but dbdr need to rewrite his bot in rust first

MSmits: not the one on the board currently struct

MSmits: but with cg bench tests i can test it without book

MSmits: and it does fine

struct: if you update book, will it beat karlis o?

MSmits: yes, as p1, 100%

MSmits: and then he will change something

MSmits: and its my turn

struct: Yeah, I see :/

MSmits: again

struct: shame

MSmits: but struct, the solution to this is to not have a book

MSmits: without a book you are invulnerable to this

Miarem: no : )

struct: Are you though?

MSmits: well you mostly are, i cant get a 100% winrate vs someone without a book

MSmits: as p1 that is

MSmits: the book makes you strong and vulnerable both

jacek: so philosophical

struct: True and also you need to book vs multiple players

struct: so

MSmits: but there's only 4 with books now

MSmits: the others dont, well at most 2 moves

MSmits: let me put it this way. If you have a book vs someone without one, you probably increase your winrate by 5-10% at most, I am thinking more like 5%

MSmits: but book vs book you get into 0 to 100% situations

Hjax: are the bookless uttt programs not vulnerable to some traps?

MSmits: uttt doesnt really have traps

Hjax: i see

MSmits: yavalath does

struct: also why 100% vs book?

Miarem: uTTTT is trap itself : )

MSmits: because I can start my meta mcts from their last book move struct, and then solve the game

struct: Ah I see

struct: So you make sure you go until his last book move and then improve your book after that move?

MSmits: impossible to do from ply 2

MSmits: exactly

Hjax: solution: generate lots of books and switch between them randomly

Hjax: and make your opponent really annoyed when they try to counter you

MSmits: not really a solution, I have room for hundreds of lines of play in my book. It's not even 5% filled

Astrobytes: Don't give Smits ideas Hjax

Astrobytes: :P

jacek: so not using unicode stuff yet?

MSmits: the counter books arent mutually exclusive, i just always let my meta mcts find the optimal line of play, so it doesnt hurt me

MSmits: nope

Hjax: i wont give him good ones, just bad ones, turns out i have more of the latter than the former

MSmits: 8 kb book

MSmits: no unicode

MSmits: hjax, we both had almost the same ideas on the last contest

MSmits: I could tell you nothing new almost

jacek: symmetry? i think there is not much symmetry in uttt except first or second mvoe

Hjax: yes, but yours worked and mine didnt

struct: I wonder if it will be possible to make opening books on Yinsh, there are 8×10e13 starting positions

Hjax: i blame java

struct: Considering symetries

Hjax: :P

MSmits: might be :)

MSmits: struct it's really hard to tell without knowing more about the game

Hjax: i should really learn C++ for these coding competition things

MSmits: yavalath has insane branching and yet its possible

Hjax: its just so hard when you are used to nice things like python and java

Astrobytes: 8×10e13 opening moves perhaps, but maybe not that many ones worth doing

struct: True, most positions on Yavalath are useless

struct: true Astrobytes

AntiSquid: we never had a physics game with hidden information :thinking: AutomatonNN

MSmits: Hjax it helps to do a few simple simulation games like uttt

AutomatonNN: can't find the problem

struct: Lets hope it stays this way AntiSquid

struct: But we have

struct: FB, CSB has hidden information

Hjax: i wrote... half of a UTTT program in C++ but didnt finish it

MSmits: Hjax i meant to practice c++ btw

MSmits: ah ok

AntiSquid: we'll see in 6 months

AntiSquid: CSB has hidden info how

MSmits: i did one in C# and converted it to c++

Hjax: i think i finished my board representation, but didnt finish my search

MSmits: thats easier than doing it from scratch

struct: You dont know if opponent has shielded

dbf: AntiSquid, what about CSB at night when you can rotate flashlight?

struct: on FB you dont know what speel he made

AntiSquid: oh perfct dbf

AntiSquid: that's the fall CG contest

MSmits: also hjax, i am pretty lousy at c++. I know just enough to do arenas with and mostly it goes ok on contests, though i still worry the game will be too complex

AntiSquid: contest name: Backlights are broken! so pods with flash lights

struct: The next contest is 3d

Astrobytes: They seem to be obsessed with hidden info and FOW rn so I don't have high hopes for the 'fall' contest

jacek: FOW?

Hjax: the next contest will have meta fog of war, you dont get to see the game board, the rules, or your code

struct: fog of war

MSmits: I prefer if they didnt do hidden info, but I'll join anyway

Astrobytes: fog of war jacek

Astrobytes: lol Hjax

AntiSquid: i asked same question earlier today jacek, bloody acronyms

AntiSquid: first thought it's some algo

struct: collisions in this contest were a bit foggy

Astrobytes: Yes, it's the Find Other Ways algo AntiSquid

jacek: well, MuZero is about learning game without rules and yet it exceeded AlphaZero

MSmits: Mu?

MSmits: shouldn't they do Beta first?

AntiSquid: BetaZero sounds funny

MSmits: GammaZero?

MSmits: DeltaZero?

JBM: we've got all night

MSmits: Why mu.. seems overconfident

Astrobytes: MuZero is when they get cats to search

JBM: so lambdazero?

JBM: just a notch under overconfident?

Astrobytes: Baby sheep search

AntiSquid: you're a physicist MSmits you should know that constant / variable names aren't used in any particular order

JBM: or meaning, ftm

MSmits: i am not too sure of that

MSmits: we physicists used all of them multiple times :P

MSmits: but sure you're right :)

JBM: invent new ones!

JBM: that's where all the high-end research rage is

JBM: i'm sure

MSmits: true story, I quit an optional class at the university because they made me write this:

MSmits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)

MSmits: (capital, with all the squiggles)

wlesavo: constants is overrated, make new laws, not assign constants

AntiSquid: then the final openai bot is AbsoluteZero /s

JBM: writing doesn't have to be calligraphy

JBM: this is merely one squiggle more than the most common letter of quite a few languages

MSmits: I said to the professor, cant i just write "x"?

JBM: x is two bars

JBM: xi three

JBM: not so different

MSmits: nope he kept telling me you cant do general relativity without that sign

MSmits: i mean the other one

struct: Ξξ

Astrobytes: MSmits that's weak! I lived/worked in Corfu for 8 months and taught myself the alphabet and how to write it properly from food/household item ingredients! Fix your handwriting :P

Hjax: @MSmits should have gotten a stamp

MSmits: my handwriting is horrible, unfixable

struct: poor students

Astrobytes: Typical physicist :P

MSmits: Hjax that would have been a good idea yeah

JBM: dont get physicists mixed up with physicians there

Astrobytes: They have equally bad handwriting JBM

JBM: no siree

MSmits: physicians are worse imho

AntiSquid: wait aren't doctors the ones with worst handwriting ?

jacek: https://xkcd.com/669/

JBM: there.

wlesavo: MSmits wow, same here, i cant write, or at least others cant understand if i write smth

Astrobytes: Physician is a doctor...

AntiSquid: i mean doctors in general

JBM: not all physicists are doctors

MSmits: I can make myself understood reasonably well on a whiteboard if i dont write too many sentences and stick with formulas

MSmits: but i prefer to use powerpoints

Astrobytes: Medical doctors. ie. physicians, are generally not physicists

MSmits: in high school I had a teacher with an eye problem. He said he had a machine to enlarge handwiriting but he only used it to grade *my* tests

AntiSquid: really how many doctors do you know Astrobytes ?

AntiSquid: maybe they are all physicists

Astrobytes: 3, only one is a physicist, and he's not a medical doctor, he has a doctorate in physics :P

struct: Im a physicist aswell

MSmits: really?

JBM: whereas physicians... do they even have doctorates?

struct: no

JBM: i KNEW it

MSmits: lol

struct: But I have physicist handwriting

struct: if that counts

JBM: same by me

JBM: try telling us about the squiggles, just to be sure?

MSmits: sure, thats how i grade tests as well. I can't read this :poop: It's a 10!

JBM: that's... internationally vert ambiguous

JBM: *very

MSmits: highest grade :P

JBM: ok

MSmits: didnt want to use the stupid American system

struct: Even my numbers are hard to tell appart

JBM: or the equally arbitrary french one

MSmits: how does the French one work?

Astrobytes: JBM I prefer ambiguously green as per your original statement

JBM: typically 0-20

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: at least it starts with 0

MSmits: ours starts with 1

MSmits: its silly

JBM: though some tolerance goes for primary school

JBM: and their lower ends

JBM: where 0-10 can be observed

MSmits: hmm ok

MSmits: thats best imho

MSmits: 1-10 is stupid as well... a 9 wide scale

JBM: all 10-17yo is on 0-20 guaranteed

MSmits: many of my colleagues, like language teachers have problems converting to a 9 wide scale

JBM: that's... well yeqh something else to get used to

Astrobytes: 1-10?!

JBM: think stars

MSmits: yeah, thats our system

MSmits: 1-10

JBM: you can't rate 0 stars

JBM: there wouldn't be anything to click on!

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: mmmh good point

struct: Here is 0-100 until 9th grade then 0-20

JBM: so think deeply

MSmits: I like 0-100, takes care of decimals

JBM: should grqdes be considered cardinal or ordinal?

Astrobytes: But say a victim just puts nothing on their paper, what then?

JBM: you'vegot 20s

Astrobytes: *victim = student :P

MSmits: cardinal?

JBM: why not

MSmits: is that a ratio scale?

JBM: i mean both POVs are valid in ways

MSmits: when a victim puts nothing on their paper, they get 1 here

MSmits: or when they cheat

MSmits: it's really the lowest grade

JBM: oooooh we haven't debated that here

Astrobytes: They should be burned for cheating

JBM: what's "cheating"?

JBM: is it well-defined?

MSmits: copying someone elses stuff on a test :)

JBM: legal or moral?

Astrobytes: wrt?

JBM: we had a 2h debate on #fr, sparked by reminiscing that US chap who outsourced his job to china

MSmits: its funny how things are different with cheating in high school and college/university

JBM: 6-fig salary, 1/6 of which went to china

MSmits: in high school students consider it normal, in university they know it's really really bad

JBM: oh right

JBM: that debate sparked by whoever offered who;ever 200 $CUR for their pacman code

Astrobytes: Really?! In highschool if I'd cheated I would get an F

ZarthaxX: AstroF

JBM: but what *is* cheating?

JBM: was it clearly defined?

MSmits: thats true here too, but it's more of a game to them, if they can get away with it, they have no problem with cheating

Astrobytes: And probably face some kind of disciplinary

MSmits: in the university noone will even try, you get expelled

Astrobytes: That was a possibility in my highschool too MSmits

MSmits: not here

Astrobytes: This was a while ago mind

ZarthaxX: in uni 2 guys cheated on an exam

MSmits: also, i need to work pretty hard to prove that someone cheated

Astrobytes: Hey Zarthaxington of ZarthaxXia

ZarthaxX: the fuck is that name LMAO

struct: Here you only get in trouble for plagiarism really

struct: Rest is not a big deal

Astrobytes: I'm trying to be creative

ZarthaxX: hai astrobytopus

MSmits: it's almost the same thing though struct

Astrobytes: Oh I like that one ZarthaxX

ZarthaxX: :)

ZarthaxX: dinosaur like

MSmits: i was thinking more of a seacreature ZarthaxX

JBM: next you're gonna tell us you could cure cancer but don't wanna

struct: I guess, but they only consider it if you copy works or something

JBM: but what's copying

MSmits: hmm ok struct

JBM: take an alg exam

ZarthaxX: MSmits mhmmhm

ZarthaxX: maybe

struct: ZarthaxX I need your designer expertise

JBM: how many possible distinct solutions can you consider?

ZarthaxX: oh mai

ZarthaxX: what are you doing

struct: I need you to make 3D Yinsh board

ZarthaxX: D:

ZarthaxX: how is that

MSmits: you know whats funny. I only ever made one website, about black holes (its no longer up) and one time I caught a student copying from this site for an assignment and he didnt realize it was my website :P

Astrobytes: I did some chemistry stuff with the Open University a few years ago, and my first assignment I was failed and reported for cheating. I'd used LaTeX and (we had to submit doc/docx) embedded my formulas as images

struct: Ill pay well

struct: 200$

Astrobytes: I had to send my professor the LaTeX file and some screenshots

JBM: wow

JBM: depressing in too many ways

MSmits: thats annoying Astrobytes, it worked out in the end?

Astrobytes: Yes, but no more pretty LaTeX

Astrobytes: I mean I'd used it fine for previous mathematics courses with no problems at all

MSmits: i like LateX, but you need to work regularly with it to be fast with it

Astrobytes: So I assumed it would be fine with the chemical notation plugin

struct: I searched latex, went to images

JBM: i wrote some latex formulae yesterday

struct: not good

JBM: for the first time in...

MSmits: lol

JBM: decades

JBM: good thing we have wikibooks now

Astrobytes: I'm wayyyyy rusty in it now

Cappefra: I didn't mind writing my thesis with LaTeX

JBM: as msmits said

JBM: it's fine when you're bathed in it all the time

Cappefra: right

JBM: it's hard to quit and come back

Astrobytes: yep

MSmits: I wrote my thesis in it also

ZarthaxX: struct talk to me later, im in class now :P

MSmits: no talking during class!

JBM: that's no time for class

JBM: how dare you have another TZ

JBM: mmm

JBM: need more :beer:

struct: I was joking btw ZarthaxX

struct: Dont worry

Astrobytes: Time for my pain meds, also goes well with a couple of beers if you fancy getting up late the next day :P

MSmits: yeah I gotta get going also, finish some work and get some sleep

MSmits: gn Astrobytes

MSmits: and everyone else

struct: gn

Astrobytes: Oh I'm still awake, takes an hour or so to kick in

ZarthaxX: aight struct :P

ZarthaxX: cya guys

JBM: pain meds? what did i miss?

Astrobytes: Got a terrible lower back issue JBM, had to go to hospital and everything. Been ongoing since end of last year, had numbness in limbs and such

JBM: ouch :|

Astrobytes: Tests ruled out all the worst things thankfully, but still not got to the bottom of the issue yet

JBM: yeah i see what you mean

JBM: well keep in there

Astrobytes: Yep, taking each day as it comes as always

JBM: that's the way

Astrobytes: Was annoying since I got put on the strong meds a few days before the contest

JBM: like, they impair your coding ability?

Astrobytes: You could say that. Dihydrocodeine.

JBM: like the house thing

Astrobytes: How I managed to get Bronze is an achievement for me under those circumstances.

Astrobytes: House thing? Like Dr House?

JBM: yay

JBM: diddn't codeine before him

JBM: *know

Astrobytes: Hah. Well, dihydrocodeine is a stronger version of codeine

JBM: ok

Astrobytes: Horrible stuff. Also on high dose naproxen (and omeprazole to counter any GI issues from that)

Astrobytes: And diazepam at bedtime so I can sleep. And I can only sleep on the sofa right now, as I can't get out of bed if I lie down flat

JBM: ah, valium

JBM: had to wikipedia

Astrobytes: And just to make things that little bit more fun, I bruised a rib on my computer chair arm while picking up my cat the other day. Happy days :P

Astrobytes: I'd rather the bruised rib than the back *any day*

Astrobytes: Anyway, enough of my moagning

Astrobytes: *moaning

JBM: yeah, good luck finding a night

Astrobytes: A beer or 2 (no more) plus the meds helps a bit.

JBM: yeah helps me too

JBM: hard not to abuse

JBM: though

Astrobytes: I've had my times

JBM: especially with that lockdown and me buying better beer for the occasion

Astrobytes: Indeed :D

Astrobytes: You on some medication also?

JBM: not anything i'd discuss here

JBM: wait, does beer count?

JBM: i'm on beer

Astrobytes: PM if you like, I am also on other medication

JBM: my line's open

AntiSquid: imagine working from home and being drunk on the job without anyone knowing AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: but i will give his time to train a bot

AntiSquid: train bot drunk resulted in pacman gold league

AntiSquid: that's why it's so random, everyone was drunk

Astrobytes: Hm, might try that strategy next time

Astrobytes: Anyway, gn

mohammadhei05: hello

JBM: hey

Snef: Hello

MadKnight: hey Snef

MadKnight: how's your new cool game Snef ?

Snef: haven't started it yet

MadKnight: why?

Snef: because i had only little free time these days

Snef: i spent a bit on the contest but that's pretty much it

Evansj306: Hello Everyone! :)

MadKnight: hey Evansj306

JBM: med

JBM: (heya)

JBM: how are you up this late

MadKnight: gonna sleep soon

JBM: spokojnoj

Doumaki: hello guys i need some help understanding something

JBM: you look like you do

Doumaki: what's that 10**20

Doumaki: someone just beat me in 2min in clash of C , it too me 12mins

Doumaki: he used variable = 10**20 he used python

iiAviator: power

c0cainee: 10**20 is 10^20

iiAviator: 10 to the power of 20

iiAviator: Yup

DragonJ: why in CSB when I print a checkpoint it just does circles around it

Snef: because you can only turn 18°

Snef: so if you have enough speed you'll just orbit around it

DragonJ: well the person with a speed of 5 did it to

Snef: speed of 5 ? thrust is between 0 and 100

DragonJ: thrust of 5 yeah

Snef: if you print MOVE cpX cpY 5 it'll not circle around it

Snef: you circle around it because you have too much speed

DragonJ: circling was what me and the opponent with 5 thrust was doing

Snef: can you copy a replay ?

Snef: there is an icon to share

DragonJ: I hit replay same map and map switched what???

DragonJ: just multiple glitches in a row is what I think happened

Snef: https://pasteboard.co/J90KShy.png

DragonJ: am stuck in bronze near top beat boss every three matches and than the losses are very weird

Snef: look the url i paste

Snef: click on that button and paste the url

DragonJ: my code is 6 lines and I still have wacky things happen...

Snef: show me your code atleast

Snef: i can't help you without information

DragonJ: https://codeshare.io/2KE97o

Snef: you are printing not what the game want

DragonJ: yeah but it still runs

DragonJ: only reason I am not printing game normal is because debugging

Snef: and ?

Snef: you are still doing it wrong

Snef: to debug you should use print("Debug messages...", file=sys.stderr)

Snef: and for print you should do print(x,y,thrust)

DragonJ: ok but changing those wont fix the issues

Snef: the issue is as i said

Snef: if you have too much speed

Snef: and you are not facing the checkpoint

Snef: you will circle around

Snef: you should try doing more condition

Snef: now you have if angle > 90 => thrust = 0 else thrust = 100

FrancoisB: "drift"

Snef: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a791762f-f775-4eaa-afc0-abe07c6fdbac

BenjaminUrquhart: and just like that, the chat has died

BenWo: heya :)

TheAtomicStopwatch_c7ec: ?

eulerscheZahl: hello dead chat

BenjaminUrquhart: oh hey I got the CG points

urmam: hello

BenjaminUrquhart: hello

eulerscheZahl: oh, 1st again

eulerscheZahl: and some more cp to come with the multi

BenjaminUrquhart: wait there's a level after 50 now

eulerscheZahl: but dropped 3 ranks on the contest leaderboard

eulerscheZahl: they added more levels just for me

WINWINWIN: Nice eulerscheZahl!

WINWINWIN: Multi going to be released?

BenjaminUrquhart: Soon:tm:

eulerscheZahl: https://twitter.com/CodinGame/status/1262438827194449921