Whysaac: if a clash ends before you finish is there a way to continue playing until you can complete it?
struct: search it here
struct: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
struct: might need to load up
Whysaac: ty
eulerscheZahl: it's loaded
eulerscheZahl: but probably offline for the rest of the month soon
eulerscheZahl: i hit the 80% uptime per month 2 days ago already
miobyte: struct how r u always active here?
eulerscheZahl: the trick is not to sleep or blink
rwilson: i bet a beer he's around but not answering just to prove he's NOT always active
eulerscheZahl: but as a moderator he's always shown when logged in. i can assure you there are at least 100 other users who can read this chat right now but aren't shown as online (only visible to moderators)
lifetimeLearner007: Can someone tell me what is wrong with this code? I keep getting StackOverflow error
https://pastebin.com/KZfLnbD1
mlomb: what is your exit condition?
rwilson: looks like exit condition is the maxscore ... but that MIGHT end up taking too many turns to get there.. ?
mlomb: you, you could limit it to 200
mlomb: yup*
rwilson: well - take that back - exiting on that isn't quite there...
eulerscheZahl: should be fine if he only generates valid moves. that's the exit conditino
lifetimeLearner007: I'm running in my local. It should eventually finish right? Local doesn't have limitation of time
mlomb: true, make sure you don-t have WAIT always there
lifetimeLearner007: yes, WAIT isn't there always.
rwilson: @lifetimeLearner007 so you've got a BFS going over the move states, but trying to exit when 'phase' = null ... you could check what you're doing with applyAction() .. but i'd personally start with measuring a few things ( like how deep it's going & likely put a hard turn limit in there... game ends after 200 game phases anyways )
eulerscheZahl: that's DFS
lifetimeLearner007: #rwilson, I think I'm doing DFS
eulerscheZahl: i don't see anything wrong in the part of your bot that you shared
eulerscheZahl: maybe in combination with a move generator that loops
eulerscheZahl: do you put a training card to playedCards?
eulerscheZahl: when you use the skill
rwilson: :hand_splayed: :sweat_smile:
lifetimeLearner007: #rwilson, the first line in applyAction() is to set phase to null. It is rewritten only if I've extra card or something
lifetimeLearner007: I guess I've to debug through entire tree to see where I'm adding invalid actions that is causing infinite loop.
eulerscheZahl: just print your move sequence each time you enter the function. see if it gets unreasonably long
eulerscheZahl: or something like
if (actions.size() > 20)
dummy action to put a breakpoint on
GroutchKeu: o/
Tien118: :taco:
rwilson: :beer:
lifetimeLearner007: #eulerscheZahl, Thanks. Playing TRAINING card allows to play one more card and my code was playing one more card indefinitely... Hence the stack overflow
eulerscheZahl: great. initially the game itself had the same bug
lifetimeLearner007: Does the skill card go to draw pile or discard pile after it is used?
eulerscheZahl: discard
lifetimeLearner007: doesn't seem to be consistent. In one instance, after using training card, it went to draw pile.
lifetimeLearner007: ok, after training, I needed to play one more card but I didn't have any. So, turn ended triggering discrad pile to move to draw pile I think
eulerscheZahl: still used => played => (after play phase) discard. when draw is empty, all discard goes to draw
jacek: hmm, i had 3 recaptchas on submit today
oidrissi: Guys, can someone please explain this:
Turn 12
Magus: It's the 12th turn
Magus: But I think we miss a part of the question
oidrissi: My bad
oidrissi: I understood as i was asking the question
kataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: hi
zersch: ell
zersch: o
kataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: davidddddddddddd
YuyuXD: wtf
New6969: why are questions easy can i increase difficulty?
jacek: clashes? you cant
friendlyPenguin: some of them won't be that easy, it depends
putibuzu: Hi
Sheeesh---: psyho is on top again
Sheeesh---: the leaderboard is on fire
eulerscheZahl: it's not that easy to just stop and switch to topcoder i guess
Psyho: haha yes
Psyho: especially since I feel I understand this contest and now there's a long list of small tweaks that I should try
Psyho: and I have yet no clue about topcoder contest
Westicles: 3 Americans in the top 200, and 73 french
eulerscheZahl: i had a quick look at TC but no clue either. probably another beam or simulated annealing round
Psyho: that being said it's mostly just 10 minutes of implementing few one liners & wait few hours for league system to produce stable results
eulerscheZahl: the stage 3 problems were a better fit for me. was move about creativity and a completely unique approach than beam
Psyho: I do think that all stage 4 problems are really good
Psyho: and none of them were standard BS/SA
eulerscheZahl: your local league system i suppose? you won't get anything stable here on CG
Psyho: yeah, local league
eulerscheZahl: maybe it's just that i'm not good at those problems we had at stage 4
Psyho: it's my code from halite 2
eulerscheZahl: stage 3 had a multi-agent (sheep shearing) and one about probabilites
eulerscheZahl: somehow a lot of contestants didn't get the math to properly compute them
Psyho: and during the springchallenge2022 stream I made it work for CG
Psyho: oh yeah, probabilities / hidden information is sort of different type of contests
Psyho: I do prefer full information as I can use my code optimization skills more
eulerscheZahl: sorry, didn't watch
nothing against you, i rarely watch streams for more than 5min. just a quick peak to see the local setup (operating system, IDE, ..) for curiosity
Psyho: (plus smaller variance in general so you need fewer tests)
Psyho: I don't blame you, I stated several times that I think watching streams has low value and I'm not a target so I have no clue what is useful for viewers
eulerscheZahl: i just like the thinking out of the box. i never worked too hard on getting good at optim. and for those totally different tasks everyone starts at the same level
Psyho: I believe most people just watch it in the background and sometimes tune in if there's something they find interesting
tony_on_xbl: hi
Psyho: "i just like the thinking out of the box." - I do feel that was the case for all of the recent problems
eulerscheZahl: reCruse once streamed a CG contest too. somehow it derailed into hours of stuffing the game state into a few bits and serializing. he himself didn't get why it was so popular
Psyho: none of them were typical and for all of them we ended up with a wide variety of different types of solutions
eulerscheZahl: then i just failed to see the big picture. standard beam approach and mediocre rank
Psyho: wait none of the used beam search
eulerscheZahl: none of the top. i did :(
Psyho: so... you lack on the creativity side :P
eulerscheZahl: hard to name what was my problem with it. maybe that the task was abstract and hard to visually see what's wrong with your solution
eulerscheZahl: the sheep shearing was completely different in that regard
Psyho: probably sheep was more game-y
Psyho: and experience from CG transfers to that
Psyho: the recent ones are straight up optimization, although very untypical ones
Nerchio: what languages do they accept at topcoder
eulerscheZahl: probably. the sheep was very much in my favor to snipe Daiver
eulerscheZahl: C#, Java, C++, Python
Psyho: c++,c#,python,java
Psyho: c++ recommended though
Nerchio: maybe i should check out some problems
eulerscheZahl: some have animations. also in the statement to explain it. but only visible when you are logged in
Psyho: I probably stated this before, but I do feel that while bot games are more fun on usual, optimization problems are much better at teaching basic stuff
Psyho: mostly due to low variance of the results
Psyho: but this is extremely important because low variance tells you if you're doing something better or worse
eulerscheZahl: optim is definitely better for a fair outcome
eulerscheZahl: here my rank is going up and down
Psyho: and with bot contests you can waste hours on something that you have no clue if it's a general improvement or not
Psyho: so the tempo of learning is much lower
eulerscheZahl: i just like the gamified approach. when i entered, i never planned to get that competitive
Psyho: oh yeah, I can relate to that
Psyho: btw, "topcoder is all about beam search & simulated annealing" - when I did my first two contests on CG (ages ago)
Psyho: I did beam search in both
MSmits: eulerscheZahl think we will both enter legend?
MSmits: it's so random
MSmits: btw, this feels like old times with the group that is near the top.
MSmits: Illed an, you, me roya le all close together
MSmits: it's just jace k that feels out of place tbh :P
eulerscheZahl: beam is also helpful for some CG games, true. especially those with little opponent interaction
eulerscheZahl: we will pass MSmits. even a good boss candidate. i don't want to be boss
MSmits: i could be boss, my bot doesnt use that much calc time, except on rare turns
Nerchio: i want to be the boss can we arrange that
MSmits: but people will overfit vs boss
MSmits: which means they overfit vs you
Nerchio: thats fine
Nerchio: but still only 1 bot can be a boss so unlikely no matter what
MSmits: yeah
eulerscheZahl: we still miss dbdr in the top group :(
MSmits: oh yeah
MSmits: and robo
eulerscheZahl: agade, recurse and pb if you look back even further
MSmits: pb not that far
MSmits: he won one not too long ago
MSmits: ocean
eulerscheZahl: magu s usually gets strong on the last days only. still time for him
Nerchio: didn't pb won the witches?
MSmits: maybe both
eulerscheZahl: yes, both
Nerchio: i remember some insane spell combo calculations
Nerchio: in excel :joy:
MSmits: i skipped that contest
kovi: karliso also did last days appearances few times
Neumann: Do you think they will aim for top10 at Legend opening ? Or more since there is less contestants ?
eulerscheZahl: but no one enters as late as dapo
Neumann: Haha, true
Neumann: But a erfurbished phone ? Meh, not worth for him
MSmits: he enters sooner than you think. You just dont see him :P
eulerscheZahl: their boss selection is automated now. no idea what they implemented
eulerscheZahl: i think i'm a good boss candidate (15th atm)
MSmits: you code like a boss
Nerchio: the differences are so small you can jump to 10 by 2 people submitting and losing to you
Nerchio: or get beat up like I just did by square
MSmits: heh yeah you'll be boss, with 40 people passing you in a few hrs :)
eulerscheZahl: local testing shows that i even lost to a bot printing RANDOM in 5% of the games or so
MSmits: lol
MSmits: going home from work now. Lots of coding to do today, talk to you on sunday :)
eulerscheZahl: don't forget to walk your god
eulerscheZahl: dog
Illedan: 200 games local test and the difference is 1 win/lose -.-
emh: my sim is working, but not ready for submit
lifetimeLearner007: CONTINUOUS_INTEGRATION 5
Isn't this a valid action?
emh: lifetimeLearner007 only if you have two in hand
darkhorse64: only if you have two ci
darkhorse64: ^
Psyho: my submission that got now #1 spot had a massive bug (~1.5 ELO diff in local league), talk about variance
Psyho: so I now expect to be barely in top 10 after fixing it
jacek: 1.5 ELO? oh my
Illedan: Psyho, did you see any problems with brutaltester and using multiple threads locally?
Psyho: hm, no idea
Psyho: do you have something specific in mind?
Illedan: Yeah, eulerscheZahl had huge problems
Illedan: running random vs his 15th bot with 4 threads caused the random to win 30 %
Psyho: it doesnt crash for me, it does produce some results
Illedan: Using only 1 thread caused him to win 95%
Psyho: even if you use "-t 1" it's still using threads
Illedan: Yeah, but multiple
Psyho: because tester & both solutions each use separate threads
Mengshang: Why I get the first place but the system not notice me, which cause me can't finish the task,May I wait until the clash over?
Psyho: I always run it with "-t 1"
Illedan: k
Mengshang: There someone can answer me???
Psyho: I'd prefer to run it in a single thread (i.e. tester & both players would share a single thread and everything would be executed sequentially)
derjack: Mengshang you need to wait until the clash is over
Mengshang: Thank. I have recved the notice of the system
kovi: Psyho so that testing environment running many threads is stable? ("flat" timed calculations)
Mengshang: My English not well.:joy:
Psyho: yeah, plus it's easier to estimate the number of games my league can play concurrently
YurkovAS: don't forget add option "-s" for brutal-tester
kovi: valid
btw, nice prediction on scoreboard
you removed a massive bu...feature
Psyho: I'm only using brutal tester in order to run a single game with random players on two random positions
derjack: run multiple separate brutal testers [solved]
Mengshang: I can create some app by Qt(C++) now, I want to learn an other lang.ask some advice
Psyho: like this: https://pastebin.com/VT55XQAi
j4at: that doesn't handle draw correctly
Psyho: why? I think it does
Psyho: brutal tester reports 0% for both players
Psyho: so it should return [0, 0]?
oidrissi: Psyho any stream coming soon?
j4at: ow I thought it reports 50% for both
j4at: my bad :p
Psyho: oldrissi: nope, I only streamed the first day of the contest
Psyho: no streams in the near future
Psyho: I could try to stream CoC at some point but I'm not sure if that would be entertaining or not
Psyho: (or educational)
j4at: you should definitely steam coc
oidrissi: Personally I really was looking forward to streams of Green Circle, see how you brainstorm and yeah...I wanna know how to implement a full search algorithm and you started doing so, it was interesting for me
oidrissi: How many people in the top 100 using only heuristics in your opinion?
derjack: :zipper_mouth:
Nerchio: probably plenty
Nerchio: i have search + heuristics but I am pretty sure I could do almost the same with just heuristics
oidrissi: In my experience Good heuristics only can get you to legend but for this game? Idk
sua501: :) have a good day!
derjack: maybe some state machine
Psyho: oldrissi, hard to tell how many
Psyho: I usually just look at % of people using python in top 100 :D
Psyho: imho it's easier to get a decent result with sim-based solution
Psyho: mostly because it's less frustrating
Psyho: with heuristics & high-variance game like this, you have mostly no clue about what you're doing
Psyho: with sim-based, you know that if you implement all of the things, you'll get at least decent solution
Psyho: if you exclude my functions for: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/49d1a41d-cc98-4496-ba7c-aabdfe2254e3
Psyho: huh
Psyho: wtf hell happened :D
derjack: pastebins dont work
Psyho: I didn't try pasting anything
Psyho: test:
- asdfslfdkaj
Psyho: hm
darkhorse64: tldr;
derjack: it automatically converts long lines
Psyho: tldr;
if you exclude my 3 main functions (gen possible moves, simulated single step, find move via heuristic) then sim-based approach adds like 10-15 lines of code
derjack: you just excluded 99% things
Psyho: 90% of my heuristic function is in my stream
derjack: shameless advertising
Psyho: and gen moves + simulating single step is just boring programming work
Psyho: it doesn't even have to be super fast
Psyho: I was still replying to oldrissi's "Personally I really was looking forward to streams of Green Circle, see how you brainstorm and yeah...I wanna know how to implement a full search algorithm and you started doing so, it was interesting for me"
Psyho: assuming they're still here :)
oidrissi: Simulating single steps is the step i'm stuck at
oidrissi: Yes
oidrissi: Thank you for the answer
Psyho: well, it's a bit of a work (my code for that is around 150 lines) + lots of possibilities for bugs
Psyho: but there's not much creativity here, it's just a lot of pain and you have to power through it!
struct: gold is so small this time, its going to be hard to get to legend
oidrissi: does simpy work on the ide?
Uljahn: no, we have numpy, scipy and pandas though
Uljahn: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/40701/help-center/languages-versions
oidrissi: Thank you!
darkhorse64: struct: I expect we will need to win at least 5 ELO points over two days to make it
struct: darkhorse64 5 Elo seems very hard
struct: The gap usually isnt this big
offroff: seems like rank 100 in silver is pretty far from gold, my if and else conditions doesn't do much :(
struct: 8.0 point is close to 100% winrate iirc
darkhorse64: You have two hours to play games against the top 10 and gather ideas. I already have 10 TODO lines
eulerscheZahl: if i can suggest something to you?
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/645705470
release applications
eulerscheZahl: joking aside, your opening move looks unusual already. who needs architecture?
struct: your first move is 3 euler?
struct: brb
darkhorse64: ouch ! I have a bug. Architecture is for increasing my hand. I found it better than collecting TaskPrio for a start
eulerscheZahl: my first move was 2, struct. watch closely
darkhorse64: Not much time atm. I am expected to do my real job
eulerscheZahl: bestest opening
Nerchio: its best only because you haven't tried moving to 7 euler
eulerscheZahl: i should visit cells in descending order: 7,6,5,4
struct: sorry euler I'm a lua dev
struct: anyways I need to try harder now, I won't be very active in chat, ping me if it's needed, it will be open in other tab
eulerscheZahl: wait, you got a job struct?
struct: no, it was a joke euler because I said 3
struct: instead of 2
eulerscheZahl: aaah
derjack: smits goes to 5 :thinking:
lifetimeLearner007: Does WAIT after MOVE triggers RELEASE phase always?
oidrissi: if possible move == release it triggers, else no
lifetimeLearner007: in the first turn MOVE 2 -> WAIT triggers RELEASE but not when MOVE 3 -> WAIT
oidrissi: It means you can't release anything
oidrissi: on move 3
oidrissi: or after move3
oidrissi: but you can after move2
lifetimeLearner007: Did I miss reading it in the problem statement? Which other MOVEs allow release?
oidrissi: I think u misunderstood what I just said
oidrissi: If possible_move contains something of said game phase, it will trigger the game phase
elderlybeginner: Whan to TRAIN/CODE and when not to? (contest)
eulerscheZahl: that sentence makes no sense
elderlybeginner: When TRAINING/CODING in move phase has no sense?
eulerscheZahl: of course it makes more sense in the PLAY phase when it's actually a valid move
elderlybeginner: sure, I meant PLAY phase :wink:
elderlybeginner: Is there a point in building the deck at the cost of slower first 4 releases?
elderlybeginner: Is it worth to postpone release and keep some cards?
eulerscheZahl: it's worth not drowning in debt
eulerscheZahl: but don't ask me about the tradeoff, i suck at this game :(
elderlybeginner: yep, I don't like it. Just going with if's and minimal effort.
derjack: is this how you do at your job
elderlybeginner: "That's what she said" would be better response :wink:
derjack: :upside_down:
Astrobytes: he'd need to use the jacek account for that though
offroff: I'm looking for the minimal effort to reach gold now
Dapps: let me know if you found it. i put in maximum effort and just squeezed in
elderlybeginner: top silver seems to be a limit for minimal effort heuristics
Dapps: ^ this
Dapps: added in some limited (half-baked) sim just got me to gold
eulerscheZahl: and gold to legend will be the limit for poor 1 turn searches i fear :(
eulerscheZahl: was the boss in 30min or 1h 30min last time?
Dapps: i have no hope. will legend be top.. 10? 15?
Astrobytes: 30 min
struct: top 1
Nerchio: legend will be my rank +1
eulerscheZahl: who knows Dapps
Dapps: struct lol top 1 - the true legend
eulerscheZahl: but i predict it won't get that much larger after opening
struct: maybe 15th
struct: since the bot is in py3
darkhorse64: Cut predicted at 30 or top 10
eulerscheZahl: simulation contests always have a small legend
darkhorse64: ELO 30
struct: well this one will be even smaller because of the amount of players in gold
eulerscheZahl: oh, i thought rank 10 or 30
eulerscheZahl: wenn der Hahn kräht auf dem Mist, ändert sich das Wetter oder es bleibt wie's ist
darkhorse64: :laughing:
StevenV: wow, java top1
Astrobytes: nice euler
eulerscheZahl: you translated that?
darkhorse64: yep
Astrobytes: I had to use Google, couldn't understand it all
struct: No need to translate, german is pretty similar to portuguese
eulerscheZahl: but the rhyme got lost in translation
Astrobytes: Yes, but the rhyme sounds great in German
Astrobytes: to me at least
.Anonymous.: Hello World
struct: hi
darkhorse64: in french: "les chiens aboient, la caravane passe"
struct: In portuguse, "Os cães ladram, mas a carava passa".
struct: *caravana
darkhorse64: I recognized one word
struct: which one?
darkhorse64: caravana
Astrobytes: :D
jacek: rank is pretyy rng, just spam submit until legend
darkhorse64: google translate likes "carava"
eulerscheZahl: caravan?
darkhorse64: yes
Astrobytes: life goes on, regardless
jacek: :(
Illedan: Legend will be crowded because of the randomness
eulerscheZahl: it will be small
jacek: thats NOT what she said
eulerscheZahl: it's a simulation contest. simulation legends are always small
TINOUAINANI: When it will open?
eulerscheZahl: reaching legend will be hard?
eulerscheZahl: are you happy now, jacek?
eulerscheZahl: in 15min or so
square1001: Could you tell me the meaning of "simulation contest"?
Astrobytes: simulate actions, search alorithm to find the best
Astrobytes: *algorithm
struct: for me its all games lol
jacek: :notebook: :soccer:
square1001: So... One can write simulation codes for most game. What's the difference against non-simulation one?
struct: I would say work better with heuristics
struct: but to me that seem counter-intuitive
struct: say some work better*
eulerscheZahl: have a look at the previous contest (spider attack). that worked fairly well with long if-else cascades
eulerscheZahl: this green circle game on the other hand is really hard to analyze. when i don't even know how to play as a human, how shall i tell my bot?
Nerchio: is it that hard to play though?
Dapps: reminds me of the other contest, the tree one. i had no idea if i was making a good move or not
jacek: so you use simulations
Astrobytes: I found that one quite intuitive
Dapps: my brain couldn't comprehend it
struct: That one was also quite simple to eval
struct: this one?
struct: gl
struct: time to see who is the chosen one
Nerchio: ?
square1001: What? Boss 1 rating 31.83?
eulerscheZahl: boss
square1001: The real boss...
eulerscheZahl: where is it?
Nerchio: #1?
Illedan: Imba boss :D
eulerscheZahl: seriously?
TINOUAINANI: :joy:
Illedan: GL HF
Nerchio: Xd
Illedan: :D
struct: is this seriuous?
eulerscheZahl: i guess their automated boss selection needs some rework
Nerchio: so nobody is in legend atm? xD
eulerscheZahl: ping staff on discord :D
Illedan: Dont!
Illedan: This will be fun
Illedan: :D
eulerscheZahl: ok, let's deal with it :(
Dapps: guess we were right. legend of only 1
Nerchio: so wala is the boss then
aCat: your notion of fun is weird Ille
square1001: No, still 0 legends
struct: I did say 1st
struct: Its my fault sorry
Dapps: banned
Astrobytes: what happened?
Dapps: so wala is boss
eulerscheZahl: boss is wala
Dapps: can win by rng
eulerscheZahl: #1
struct: he is the boss and doesnt even get promoted
struct: :p
Astrobytes: hahahaha
Astrobytes: that went well then
eulerscheZahl: i expected a strong boss. but not that strong
Dapps: very very small legend pool this time
eulerscheZahl: wala isn't even online to see the mess he caused
Astrobytes: boss level BOSSSSS
struct: I just want to know if its on purpose or not
Zylo: wala: what are the weak point of Legend Boss :-D ?
Dapps: written in java
Nerchio: boss is already gaining points xdd
eulerscheZahl: pretty sure it's a bug
Michael_Howard: I'm guessing this is because Legend was so crowded last time.
eulerscheZahl: they have automated boss selection now
jacek: and legend will revert to alpha again?
Astrobytes: lel
eulerscheZahl: we will never find out
aCat: I'm pretty sure they would spend less time selecting bosses than fixing on automated selected ones ^^
Nerchio: boss = officialContest ? random(): players.get(0)
struct: no
eulerscheZahl: aCat https://xkcd.com/974/
struct: this is the boss selection
square1001: bowwow resubmitted! Go for the legend!
Astrobytes: lol
struct: for (Bot &b : bots)
if (b.language == "Java")
return b;
Nerchio: xdd
TINOUAINANI: struct legend or delete :grin:
struct: They never expected Java to be first
eulerscheZahl: "a bad boss came out"
https://twitter.com/bowwowforeach/status/1540335062025400321?cxt=HHwWgsDT8f2kr-AqAAAA
Nerchio: another game where I will be stuck in top gold I guess :D
eulerscheZahl: looks like a need a major rewrite for legend
struct: im already on my 8th
struct: I write 1 bot per da
struct: day*
Astrobytes: continuous integration struct?
jacek: legend or delete
eulerscheZahl: maybe the duck or royale can promote. they haven't submitted a single time in gold and still high
Nerchio: Thibaud "damn it. From 2k players in Gold during Spring Challenge to 200 here 😬
I've asked for help"
struct: I'm hiding obviously
eulerscheZahl: we can't keep this boss?
eulerscheZahl: wala just 0.02 behind
struct: for me its fine
struct: its a challange
struct: challenge*
struct: Cant type today
BrunoFelthes: wow, wala is the boss?
struct: Its probably a bug BrunoFelthes
struct: I should be the boss, something went wrong
jacek: kree java!
Zylo: wala is not a bug :-P
Astrobytes: Julien just came online, guessing it'll be fixed soon
square1001: I still believe that it is intentional
BrunoFelthes: the boss is java
struct: square1001 from thibaud reaction on discord it isnt
struct: o.o
Nerchio: codingame trying to tell us "learn to code noobs"?
square1001: Okay, I didn't see that. Thanks
eulerscheZahl: they do a full rerun for legend after the contest. small legend saves some costs here
therealbeef: bad boss picking heuristic
Astrobytes: the ultimate green legend
BrunoFelthes: no legends, no process
struct: hardest legend so far
Astrobytes: lowest carbon footprint legend in CG history
struct: if we all submit at the same time maybe we can make it
Astrobytes: of all the bugs though, this is a pretty good one :D
struct: This one should be a feature
jacek: thats 5th league, no shoddies!
j4at: 2 days, 17 hours left It's time to start working on my Green Circle bot. I gave you start advantage bc you will not have any chance etherwise KEKW It's time to use my secret strategy (switching between first and last action)
jacek: inclusive?
struct: Actually you can print 2 actions in 1 turn and make 2 moves at once
struct: you should try
Astrobytes: switching between implies first and last exclusively jacek
j4at: ^
jacek: :rage:
Astrobytes: :smiling_imp:
BrunoFelthes: after gold, my code is too big :/
Astrobytes: too big to fit in legend?
j4at: that's what she said
Astrobytes: lol
struct: You know what they should do
jacek: :tada:
struct: instead of rank 1
struct: rank 2 should be the boss
struct: That would be better
eulerscheZahl: i vote for nerchio as boss
eulerscheZahl: oh, he dropped. then juju rocking
jacek: but hes above you
Nerchio: i think your boss has less than 50% against mine euler
eulerscheZahl: just what i believe will happen
struct: boss should be 1% of the league size
eulerscheZahl: it's not what i want but what i think will happen
struct: rank 1 made sense
Nerchio: sendBossRequest("eulerscheZahl")
TINOUAINANI: i vote for sheeesh--- to be the boss
eulerscheZahl: probably ranked too low
struct: jacek should be the boss
eulerscheZahl: if he takes little CPU time, that even looks somewhat realistic to me
eulerscheZahl: but i bet staff is on it already. sweating which bot to choose
struct: I give mine
struct: 0ms
eulerscheZahl: definitely a fun bug
struct: yeah
Astrobytes: Truly one of the greatest I've seen on CG
eulerscheZahl: there was this one day where every profile picture was the same. some caching error
Astrobytes: that's quite amusing
Hello_20: negger
Sheeesh---: hold up
eulerscheZahl: struct, eat him alive
struct: well thats an easy ban
Astrobytes: Spelling champion of the year enters the chat
Mortis_666: will i still get the card at the desk im at if i use daily routine?
eulerscheZahl: you can choose
eulerscheZahl: MOVE 5 5 => gives you a card 5
eulerscheZahl: MOVE 5 6 => gives you a 6 while going to 5
Mortis_666: ohh
Mortis_666: thx
struct: python in top 5?
therealbeef: trolling in chat during contest is like trying to rob a cop bar
struct: What is wrong with my bot
Astrobytes: therealbeef :D
eulerscheZahl: https://nypost.com/2017/08/31/no-joke-robbers-walk-into-a-bar-full-of-off-duty-cops/
Nerchio: boss gone
MSmits: maybe he got promoted
MSmits: alone in legend
Nerchio: must be sad
Nerchio: noone to play against
jacek: he can play himself
Zylo: you can play with you from arena :-D
eulerscheZahl: Zylo are you really going full heuristics and no search?
Zylo: heuristics to state in end of round (move + play + release)
Zylo: and them I'll add some propabilities to heuristics of cards in next round...
Miki09: Why is noone in legend?
Miki09: Dis I miss smth?
Miki09: *did
Astrobytes: it opened with #1 gold as the boss :D
kovi: 35
Zylo: yes, you missed election of GOLD Boss and removing elected :-D
kovi: i hope i can stay above
Miki09: lol
emh: new C++ boss
struct: I dont see it
Michael_Howard: It's at the bottom
emh: it's at the bottom calculating
emh: yeah
Nerchio: haha
Nerchio: did they submit the boss
eulerscheZahl: my sources say it's jacek
jacek: oO
Nerchio: would be funny if boss got stuck in mid gold on randomness
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/645808615
https://www.codingame.com/replay/645808454
kovi: techdebter
struct: yeah
struct: its jacek
jacek: so deterministic
struct: grats jacek
eulerscheZahl: oh dear, i thought i'm bubble up. jacek is a tough choice
struct: you have the honors of being the boss
jacek: i should have placed a timer :(
WhatTrickeryIsThis: jaceck good pick , WTIT very wrong pick ->
inconsistent monkey strat
eulerscheZahl: i hate you already jacek. not your fault but you will be a pain
Astrobytes: first gold in a contest, first legend in a contest, and first gold boss in a contest: doing alright this time eh jacek :D
emh: how do you guys know it's jacek? he's rank 5. will be tough to get to Legend still
WhatTrickeryIsThis: :see_no_evil:
struct: check euler replays
struct: emh
jacek: im more like 10, just people spamm submitting
struct: it plays the same game
Nerchio: i mean the boss might as well end up on like #15
jacek: maybe thats the best optimal actions
TINOUAINANI: "put another boss instead. The boss is currently computing. It's @jacek 's bot "
struct: now people will optimize against jacek :(
Miki09: Does anybody know who is silver boss?
StevenV: do I miss sth, why we don't have legend now?
emh: 1-1 battle against boss
StevenV: >
Nerchio: good stop him :D
StevenV: ?
StevenV: where is legend?
struct: boss is computing
Astrobytes: there was a problem StevenV, it's fixed now
StevenV: well..
eulerscheZahl: oh, we can even watch it this time
j4at: anyone using NN ?
eulerscheZahl: not just taking the score of the original bot
StevenV: I still in silver, maybe the whole server just wait for me :D
eulerscheZahl: the boss might be a NN
darkhorse64: every chap in the leaderboard that gets passed by the boss lose hope
emh: yeah
eulerscheZahl: the author makes a secret out of it but is known for coding some
eulerscheZahl: you lost your hope already darkhorse64?
Astrobytes: and dominating with them
darkhorse64: I had no hope.
eulerscheZahl: it will be a pain. i don't want to rewrite everything and have no idea how
darkhorse64: thanks for the replay. My bot is hugely bugged as p2
struct: euler I'm sure you will make it
struct: Even I will get legend
eulerscheZahl: with other strong bots submitting at the same time jacek might not climb
eulerscheZahl: fingers crossed
MSmits: i'm worred about jacekboss, yesterday i saw versions of his that beat me 10x in a row
darkhorse64: euler losing hope
IvesL: do you still have small applications from bronze onwards?
eulerscheZahl: no
eulerscheZahl: even says so in the popup
Nerchio: anyone from top5 wants to resubmit now? :D
MSmits: yay i got doublewin vs jacekboss
j4at: euler send the chat history url
eulerscheZahl: https://cg.spdns.eu/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?limit=50&days=7&enhanced=1&urlversion=2
eulerscheZahl: and the boss got me :(
MSmits: noooo stop him
TINOUAINANI: boss 29.66
MSmits: past me :(
Nerchio: can't wait for the boss to pass jacek too
jacek: :scream:
jacek: youll miss wala boss
jacek: w00t
struct: :D
jacek: but when I submit my code, im barely 13th :x
Nerchio: i didnt get a single game vs boss
MSmits: that's not necessarily a bad thing
struct: me neither, but Im rank 70 so thats probably why
eulerscheZahl: i got 3: loss, win, tie
BrunoFelthes: boss win with 20 TD
struct: jacekmax is strong
jacek: tower defense?
BrunoFelthes: i hate you jacek
Astrobytes: :D
Michael_Howard: Automaton2000 will jacekboss end up at the top again?
Automaton2000: any way to get rid of all the pellets in the map
darkhorse64: jacek will lose all hopes in a short while
Astrobytes: pacman throwback
BrunoFelthes: how can you draw the winner cards with 25 TD?
struct: jacek reverse the game
eulerscheZahl: 4 bonus automated
struct: reversed*
eulerscheZahl: 1 lucky draw and one move draw
MSmits: struct i spent half the day converting to bitpacked... this was not easy like you said :P
MSmits: finally got all the bugs out
struct: Maybe you did it in a more optimized way or something
struct: what I did was quite simple
eulerscheZahl: oh, i had a timeout vs jacek
MSmits: i think i did the same as you
MSmits: 6 bits per card type, with TD being an exception
struct: I used 5 bits
jacek: bitboards? :scream:
struct: So I can store the size
MSmits: ye but need 6 bits for bonus
struct: 5*8+8+8+8
MSmits: i know
MSmits: but bonus doesnt fit in 5
struct: But then you cant store the size
MSmits: i just count
MSmits: dont store the size
MSmits: takes some calc time i suppose, sometimes
MSmits: adjusting the size every time something changes also does
struct: yeah should be similar I guess
struct: Performance doesnt matter much here anyways
MSmits: true
struct: you need to prune a lot
MSmits: i havent pruned yet
darkhorse64: jacek wrecked by its own creature
struct: I only prune actions
struct: Nothing else for now
MSmits: you mean lossless pruning?
Astrobytes: sound familiar darkhorse64? ;)
MSmits: or lossy?
darkhorse64: resistance is futile
struct: I dont know what that is MSmits
MSmits: lossless means you prune useless actions
struct: I mean I dont really generate all legal actions
struct: yeah
MSmits: lossy means you prune actions that are probably bad, but not certain
Crosility: Blasphemy struct. Performance always matter /s
struct: that sounds about right
struct: lossless
MSmits: ah ok, then yes you need to prune
MSmits: hashing works too though, with the bitpacked version
MSmits: thats why i did it
MSmits: ohhh he gettin close to me
Astrobytes: I was about to ask you why you changed your mind and switched
MSmits: yeah for the hashing :)
Astrobytes: makes sense
MSmits: hashing 60 ints is not fun
Astrobytes: heh heh heh
struct: yeah because performance wise it might be a bit worse the packed version
struct: but to hash it should be easier
struct: i only packed it to try beam
darkhorse64: I predicted a cut at 30 with 10 ppl
BrunoFelthes: starting today, it will be impossible to submit
eulerscheZahl: we got tweeted
https://twitter.com/iwashi31/status/1540341683388309504
MSmits: I got likes and I don't even have social media accounts
MSmits: like a boss!
jacek: whats with japan and tweets?
Nerchio: we are famous now MSmits
Astrobytes: right jacek?
MSmits: yes :)
darkhorse64: :head_bandage: 6 ELO to gain
darkhorse64: MSmits as a lucky loser ?
jacek: ELO?
Astrobytes: Electric Light Orchestra
kovi: can be pushed easily
MSmits: wait, why am I a lucky loser?
jacek: youre just loser
MSmits: o
darkhorse64: 1st no qualified
jacek: phew
MSmits: ok, so best loser
eulerscheZahl: you will get pushed
MSmits: no doubt
darkhorse64: Yeah, I can troll you because there are no worries
eulerscheZahl: i have some benchmark that looks promising so far. would be an honor for me if i can push you
eulerscheZahl: hm, getting less promising with more games now :/
j4at: ow 3 made it to legend
jacek: first contest legend :tada:
MSmits: grats
darkhorse64: gg
struct: grats jacek
Sheeesh---: GG
Nerchio: 3-1 vs boss 2-2 vs smits
Astrobytes: grats jacek :) :tada:
jacek: ok so far legend is not crashed
Astrobytes: lol, progress!
YurkovAS: :tada:
MSmits: bowwow kicked me in the face before leaving
struct: lol
MSmits: 6 losses in a row
darkhorse64: "la flêche du Parthe"
MSmits: whats that
eulerscheZahl: a hissing cat
MSmits: oh right
Astrobytes: the Parthian shot
Astrobytes: like a big "fk you" before you leave
darkhorse64: In ancient times, roman legions fought against Parths who had the habit the habit to throw arrows before leaving the battlefield
darkhorse64: Parthians sorry
Astrobytes: ^
MSmits: ohh that's indeed what he did
Astrobytes: Parthians were Iranian iirc
eulerscheZahl: Gallia in omnis divisa est in partes tres
jacek: regina noctis pro nobis!
Astrobytes: Galls divide omnipotently in tree parts
eulerscheZahl: close
MSmits: i dont think they were talking about parts of trees
Astrobytes: three that should be
Astrobytes: not tree
Astrobytes: Gauls that should be too I *think*
Astrobytes: Or Gaul
MSmits: keep going Nerchio
eulerscheZahl: that boss is still scary
Scarfield: python in the lead
MSmits: I need 0.23 more
jacek: strainfield
eulerscheZahl: python computing the fastest
Astrobytes: supersnake
Scarfield: thats what..
Astrobytes: :D
Nerchio: MSmits :)
struct: Damn my old bot was bad
jacek: old?
aCat: this looks as the old contests.. most people goes hardcore < 200 on gold and only a few in legend
aCat: :D
aCat: I hope I will have beter place then when I was staring then
aCat: (probably I already have, my old contests were crappy ;p)
Scarfield: its a card game, you have an advantage :p
Astrobytes: not just cards, but deck building too :P
aCat: I know - I really had half a day of switch from Tales of Tribute to this one :P
struct: jacek im just running brutaltester vs old versions to get win rates
Astrobytes: struct I think he was implying that your new one is bad too
jacek: :zipper_mouth:
struct: ...
Astrobytes: this IS jacek remember
MSmits: assisted trolling :P
Astrobytes: lol
kovi: assisted legend
Astrobytes: I will miss explaining the intent of peoples statements in chat
MSmits: :tada:
kovi: gj illedan
kovi: gratz msmits
Astrobytes: nice!
aCat: Smits gratz :-)
nmahoude: I'm next in line, push me please :)
darkhorse64: there is a big train coming
MSmits: thanks
darkhorse64: told ya: lucky loser
MSmits: sure
struct: just wait until my opening book is finished
therealbeef: you're welcome MSmits ;-)
struct: Now I'm going to counter book jace k
MSmits: good idea
struct: But now I have extra motivation to reach legend
struct: I have to beat jace k to get it
jacek: thats exactly why i introduce randomness - to prevent booking
struct: It seems deterministic though
jacek: randomness from game cancels it out
Scarfield: xD
Scarfield: he already counter booked you struct, thats why
struct: well my bot is deterministic
struct: It either uses 0ms or timesout
eulerscheZahl: 0.6, push me!
eulerscheZahl: or pull the boss, both is fine
Scarfield: so close you and nerch
struct: you should resubmit
struct: :p
Nerchio: yeah like me
eulerscheZahl: therealbeef was brave enough to do so
eulerscheZahl: oh, nerchio too
Scarfield: he is real beef
eulerscheZahl: oooh
eulerscheZahl: i always read there al beef
eulerscheZahl: never made sense to me
Nerchio: but i did small fixes that will probably change nothing
Scarfield: xD
jacek: ok, heres the boss code, enjoy
jacek: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/caba4068-00a9-47bc-8843-c0b2986cd6d1
eulerscheZahl: :/
therealbeef: ille pushed me down (i hope)
eulerscheZahl: won't click, i know it's broken
Nerchio: at least it's not rickroll
MSmits: maybe it was
WhatTrickeryIsThis: i can share my tutorial how to code good evaluation here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8oeyBSlGVw
Washier: HEHE
Sheeesh---: monke
Washier: return to monke
Sheeesh---: amen
Washier: i missed this card game, seems very popular. will give it a go once i stop obsessing with the board games
eulerscheZahl: Nerchio where are you. don't resubmit when i count on you
Nerchio: i introduced new :bug:
eulerscheZahl: you can do that in legend
Nerchio: cant believe how many bugs you can make in like 5 lines of code
MSmits: you can make so many bugs that they cancel eachother out. This is why people say their bot is worse when they fix 1
Kanawanagasaki: on report page how to get clash name?
Scarfield: its like a hydra, cut off one bug, 3 new ones emerge
MSmits: you need to fix 2
Kanawanagasaki: to train on it
jacek: you cant go back to clash
jacek: you can use https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/ to search for it though
WhatTrickeryIsThis: :skull: :frog: :hear_no_evil:
WhatTrickeryIsThis: nice podium
eulerscheZahl: i was close, then i lost some :/
WhatTrickeryIsThis: .4 is close enough
eulerscheZahl: was .22
WhatTrickeryIsThis: any strat vs boss? no weakness detected so far
Nerchio: don't worry i sent some garbage to the top
eulerscheZahl: ooh, 0.13 only
WhatTrickeryIsThis: he is in the stealing CI card business apparently
eulerscheZahl: so close
kovi: there, a win vs boss at start
eulerscheZahl: that boss bump was you kovi? thanks
WhatTrickeryIsThis: shreded
struct: I have 1% win rate vs the boss, if you want I can submit to help
Scarfield: what? first fight agains boss?
eulerscheZahl: RANDOM was higher winrate vs me than that
j4at: do clashes get chosen totally randomly ? or by the rank of the players?
jacek: yes
struct: I dont think its random
eulerscheZahl: they try to give a clash that none has played before
Nerchio: if we have 2 debt, 5 and 8 in discard, we draw 2 what is the chance to draw automate 8?
Nerchio: is it 1/4 + 1/3?
Rafarafa: is the boss going to be jacek's bot untill the end of the contest? or does it update at times?
Psyho: so you draw 2 cards out of 4 cards and you're interested in 1 of them?
Nerchio: or 2/4 + 1/3? but that seems too much
eulerscheZahl: 1 / binom(4,2)
Psyho: sounds like 50%
eulerscheZahl: 1/6
ilgiocatore: 2/4 * 1/3
Nerchio: but we draw 1 by 1 not 2 at once right euler?
eulerscheZahl: does not matter
eulerscheZahl: we draw two cards. period
Psyho: aaah both 5+8, what euler said above is correct
Washier: ok. this game sounds cool. must play. c ya l8er
therealbeef: 1/6th
therealbeef: out of 24 permutations, 4 start with 5 and 8
Scarfield: you cant add the 2/4 and 1/3 since you can only draw that one card once
ilgiocatore: 2/4 chance to draw 5 or 8, then 1/3 chance to draw 5 or 8. both events must happen, so you need to multiply, not add
Scarfield: ^
Nerchio: ok so i was counting correct except + not *
jacek: :thinking:
Astrobytes: *I was wrong but right
Astrobytes: :grin:
Nerchio: :sunglasses:
Washier: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Astrobytes: yo Washier, been a minute!
Scarfield: xD
Washier: howzit Astrobytes
Astrobytes: ticking along here, how's work?
Washier: work ticking along. nice to see the old gaurd ticking on CG
Astrobytes: always!
jacek: not much longer
Washier: nooo
Astrobytes: ah yeah, chat is gonna disappear
Washier: oh well
Astrobytes: discord will still be there though
Washier: old men like me need to adapt then
Astrobytes: haha, if I can adapt anyone can
Quidome: I prefer this chat as well :)
Washier: cmon Astro, we all know you are 29
Phiti: hii
Astrobytes: A whole decade removed!
Astrobytes: I wish :rofl:
Illedan: You 19?
Astrobytes: 39!
Illedan: ^^
Scarfield: factorial :O
Washier: ahem
Illedan: 2.0397882e+46 :O
Astrobytes: :rofl:
Illedan: Give or take, just some basic head math
Astrobytes: bunch of pedantic b**tards :D
Scarfield: xD
Washier: hehe
Scarfield: you know you love it
Astrobytes: of course :D
Washier: read that in Scottish accent
Astrobytes: heh heh!
ael-bekk: do I have a chance to be prompted to the legend leagues
ael-bekk: hhhh
struct: depends
struct: You might need to improve your bot
Washier: i would say improve your mad pod racing, good points on offer there.
Washier: nevermind. i'm thinking rank
struct: mad pod is outdated by now
Washier: yeah. i'm a lurker
jacek: hm?
struct: Getting legend there is trivial compared to most multis now
struct: Is what I wanted to say
eulerscheZahl: come on, no push for me? :(
Washier: ah cool thanks
Nerchio: you are getting pushed euler. to the bottom
Astrobytes: :D
eulerscheZahl: i was just 0.13 away
eulerscheZahl: not it's more than 1 point
Washier: unrelated, Mr Eulerschzahl, I tried to push you in checkers for a bit. not much luck. more work needed.
eulerscheZahl: it's fine, there is no boss i have to get pushed above
Washier: oic
MSmits: jacek is a Boss there too :P
therealbeef: i8 pushed boss up .4
jacek: try onitama
eulerscheZahl: i think checkers is still the bot i wrote while testing the game
Washier: I look up to Mr Jacek
Nerchio: well done therealbeef
PatrickMcGinnisII: USA is gonna be on fire tonight
Washier: sheez, that hurts Mr E
eulerscheZahl: why? did trump to something stupid again PatrickMcGinnisII?
PatrickMcGinnisII: Roe V. Wade got overturned
eulerscheZahl: oh dear
eulerscheZahl: the abortion
Astrobytes: kind of lucky chat will disappear, jacek will be going on about this for as long as the English go on about that world cup they won in 1966
Washier: eish
PatrickMcGinnisII: Biden just got on camera ... trying to keep people from doing violence
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Seriously?! :rage:
eulerscheZahl: welcome back in the early 20th cenctury
Washier: big smile for the world cup joke
PatrickMcGinnisII: Groups arre already mobilizing in my state to bunr sh8t down
Astrobytes: thanks Washier
PatrickMcGinnisII: burn
Washier: if this is true, holy shiz
Washier: not cool
eulerscheZahl: sheightt?
Washier: shize
Washier: kak
Washier: excrement
eulerscheZahl: ah, shit
therealbeef: red state, PatrickMcGinnisII?
PatrickMcGinnisII: short your stock. i don't know how that affects bitcoin,eth,etc.
eulerscheZahl: we are in europe. we can curse but not fire guns
esjokeryt: SALAM YA HABIBI
eulerscheZahl: as opposed to the US
struct: even more economy damage?
struct: I think its bad enough already
Psyho: I'm not sure if tanking bitcoin counts as economic damage ;)
Miki09: What is the output for "THROW CARD" phase? "THROW card"?
struct: I didnt meant bitcoin
Astrobytes: lol Psyho
PatrickMcGinnisII: if you thought BLM protests were bad ... cops in Fl. are loading their teargas right now
Washier: no cmon
Razovsky: eulerscheZahl come on kill this boss plz :(
eulerscheZahl: i can't
eulerscheZahl: my bot sucks
Washier: i do not believe that. nein
PatrickMcGinnisII: I guess Legend opened?
Astrobytes: gonna chat with some of my US (FL included) friends later tonight, will get the word from numerous states
struct: Oh I seem to have a done an improvement w/e I did I cant remember
eulerscheZahl: and the gold boss was pushed already. 1 point above the rest
Washier: cool Astro
Miki09: What is the output for "THROW CARD" phase?
dot.nick: good day for america
eulerscheZahl: "THROW 5" for instance
Miki09: thanks
dot.nick: please try to attack our churches, lmk how it goes for you
**PatrickMcGinnisII is confused
Psyho: does legend work the same way as other leagues? does the trueskill have the same params?
PatrickMcGinnisII: the oligarchy wants US citizens to be divided
struct: I think so Psyho
Astrobytes: Yeah, divide and conquer everywhere today Patrick
struct: The only difference is that after the contest is finished it gets 500 more battles
Psyho: seems like everyone has 50% winrate against each other it's just 15-way tie
struct: each player gets
PatrickMcGinnisII: I still don't know how to get out of silver
struct: me and you patrick
ashrafull: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/2476755da601418a2349e91931f1b1f930ec76e
Miki09: PatrickMcGinsill me 2
WhatTrickeryIsThis: legende computes more matches with extended reach +-10 from your position
struct: gold players trying to make it to legend
struct: https://old.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/vjjv05/portugals_most_stubborn_driver_car_wont_fit_in/
PatrickMcGinnisII: when the GF says no to sex, I aint givin up
Astrobytes: sex swing time
Astrobytes: struct :rofl:
Astrobytes: what is that dude doing
PatrickMcGinnisII: trying to get it in
Astrobytes: But whyyyy
PatrickMcGinnisII: so he can be legendary
Astrobytes: well, he's achieved some kind of status I guess
Astrobytes: legendary knob
yal3ab: hehehehehhehe
struct: I have no idea
PatrickMcGinnisII: knob == git ?
Astrobytes: same as dick
Astrobytes: Sorry, meant to capitalise that
PatrickMcGinnisII: I've been to the UK, but apparently didn't get the real xperience. ;)
Astrobytes: hahaha
Astrobytes: come tae Scotland
PatrickMcGinnisII: protest sites tonight https://map.wewontgoback.com/?source=sc
Astrobytes: well, good luck to 'em all.
This on top of the expanded gun rights thing on Thursday...
Astrobytes: anyway, lets move on from political stuff for now
PatrickMcGinnisII: I have an unpopular opinion. I don't think the govt. has the right to limit me at all ... so no 'decision' is necessary to hold me up. but half the US is gonna be under police state rule by Oct.
**PatrickMcGinnisII is building torches
Illedan: Hi
struct: hi
Astrobytes: Yeah, I understand the liberty part
Astrobytes: Hi
eulerscheZahl: IMO the government can and should stop you from doing some things when it affects others
PatrickMcGinnisII: *nod*, i would think a Scot. would understand
eulerscheZahl: freely available guns have an impact on public safety
PatrickMcGinnisII: eulerscheZahl why can't have a nuclear reactor in my backyard? ;)
eulerscheZahl: because of earth quakes and tornadoes
Astrobytes: There are enough ways to improve gun laws without infringing on constitutional rights
PatrickMcGinnisII: btw, the guy that killed all those people in TX recently... he had over $9K worth of guns on him, no so free
eulerscheZahl: the 2nd amendment is actually about militias for community safety, kind of like a police. was then reinterpreted
Astrobytes: Yes, indeed
Astrobytes: and is now used to justify the kind of behaviour you saw a few months ago
Astrobytes: Half the world is regressing
WhatTrickeryIsThis: top 10 is goin wild
PatrickMcGinnisII: again, I have not so popular opinions ... if the military iindustrial complex can ship weapons to god knows where ... then I should be able to own a couple. Limit exports and I'll lconsider changing my miind
Astrobytes: that's a valid point but dare I say short-sighted reasoning
Astrobytes: if you can solve the issue closer to home you stand a slightly higher chance of impacting the other
IvesL: must it be 0 to 7 before passing admin or i can anticlockwise from 7 to 0 before passing admin?
PatrickMcGinnisII: well, it's proven that criminals will still get weapons to do criminal things. the level of deaathrate then becomes the issue. Sure, people survive knives and such ...I'll shut up. Did you know, death by cop and suicides are actually the biggest impact of guns?
Razovsky: u can't anticlockwise if you are bronze or above IvesL
IvesL: @Razovsky cuz i see some top plays go straight to 7 during first turn
Razovsky: well i dont understand every bot :P
Astrobytes: You've introduced 3 other topics we could talk about there Patrick :D
We're not far from the same page. Anyway, lets leave it for now
IvesL: it reduces 1debt but if clockwise only, then he will immediately receives 2debts
IvesL: so many questions from this move
Razovsky: or he will give 2 bonuses away
Razovsky: think about this
Razovsky: less bonuses = less bonus integrated -> more op ?
Illedan: On your first move, you know your second hand draw
Illedan: You should not go to 7 if you don't draw 2 bonus on the next hand
IvesL: @Razovsky can you throw 2 bonuses instead of skills?
Razovsky: yeah you can
Razovsky: that is the point
PatrickMcGinnisII: OPPNENT_AUTOMATED isn't a thing is it?
IvesL: right cuz the descriptions highlighted skills card
IvesL: i will mark that down
PatrickMcGinnisII: how does silver boss beat me with so much debt
eulerscheZahl: one league higher i wonder the same
IvesL: and for daily routine, do you just get 1skill card (desk+1) or you actually get 2skills card from 1 move (current desk and desk+1)?
KingWhitfield2011: hi guys:hand_splayed:
eulerscheZahl: always 1 card
eulerscheZahl: MOVE x x+1 => pick up from desk x+1
eulerscheZahl: x-1 also possible
IvesL: then whats so good about it
Illedan: And I'm testing random shit in Legend, and nothing seems to help
eulerscheZahl: you can get 3 integration cards in a row
ilgiocatore: and you can get card from occupied desk, not giving a card to the opponent
Nerchio: And I'm testing random shit in Gold, and nothing seems to help
Astrobytes: x +/- n where n == number of stacked dailies
eulerscheZahl: i'm waiting in gold and it doesn't help
Illedan: I'll send help
jacek: i made a boss for gold and it helped
eulerscheZahl: illestream for the rescue?
Illedan: ^^
Astrobytes: lol
IvesL: oh, so with daily routine, you can get cards backwards as well
IvesL: noted
jacek: and 7-0 0-7 as well
IvesL: what does 7-0 0-7 mean?
PatrickMcGinnisII: MOVE 0 7 or MOVE 7 0
Illedan: desk 7 and 0 are adjacent
BrunoFelthes: daily routine can stack!
Astrobytes: yes
BrunoFelthes: you can get the card 3 from dest 1
IvesL: sorry too dumb to understand, but what so special about 0-7 7-0, they still go through admin 8, isnt it?
BrunoFelthes: no
BrunoFelthes: yes
jacek: are you in bronze or higher?
Nerchio: future.location < now.location goes through admin desk
**WhatTrickeryIsThis massive feed to boss
WhatTrickeryIsThis: strong bananas injections
IvesL: @jacek just enter bronze
jacek: you need to give cards if going through admin desk
KingWhitfield2011: what are we talking about :confused:
IvesL: ahh, so by "and 7-0 0-7 as well", you only mean you can get a card 7 from desk 0 as well if you have played card 2
IvesL: i understand now, was a bit confused
kovi: strong boss
jacek: :blush:
Sheeesh---: really strong
Sheeesh---: lol
Nerchio: strong randomness in top10*
jacek: you shall not pass
Sheeesh---: the gate keeper
KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:
MSmits: yeah only a few passed after legend opened
eulerscheZahl: jacek having fun it seems
Sheeesh---: and it will stay like that i guess
Astrobytes: hence my world cup joke earlier euler
eulerscheZahl: i was only 0.13 away. now it's 1.6 :(
KingWhitfield2011: that sucks
Nerchio: getting close
KingWhitfield2011: but your doing good
Sheeesh---: imaging destroying the dreams of 184 human
jacek: aww
KingWhitfield2011: :neutral_face:
Sheeesh---: feels good
j4at: Illedan congratz :p
Illedan: On what?
j4at: legend
j4at: oh did you just resubmit ?
j4at: and you were legend already ?
Astrobytes: ^
Illedan: I resubmitted in Legend yeah
Illedan: I tested some stupid stuff for fun, didn't work
j4at: Feeling dumb :)
Astrobytes: also, don't congratulate him until he's got a podium position :P
US3RN4M3: I still dont get it, whats the meta here? time constraints allow for naive brute force simulations
Astrobytes: no pressure Illedan :D
Illedan: ezpz
Astrobytes: hehehe
Illedan: I'll just fix it
Astrobytes: naturally!
Illedan: Brb, making chicken while thinking about what magic number to test next
struct: maybe I need to start pretending the opponent exists
KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:
Astrobytes: your bot is having existential issues?
Nerchio: kek
KingWhitfield2011:
miobyte: astrobytes and struct
miobyte: are you guys employee of this platform?
Astrobytes: You again. No.
miobyte: I think u r
miobyte: bcoz u r 24/7 active here
jacek: impossibru
miobyte: btw what's your occupation?
Astrobytes: I'm currently on sick leave but I was working in pharmaceutical regulatory affairs
miobyte: :astonished:
KingWhitfield2011: you being weird miobyte
miobyte: why?
KingWhitfield2011: never mind
miobyte: I m sad
KingWhitfield2011: sorry
miobyte: no problem
KingWhitfield2011: 😎
miobyte: do u know about k8s king white?
Astrobytes: here we go again
KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:
miobyte: :neutral_face:
Nerchio: if you started learning when you first asked you would be a world expert on k8s already
miobyte: :disappointed:
miobyte: nerchio seems really following my messages ..mate?
miobyte: :sunglasses:
miobyte: nerchio, can you help me out with k8s?
miobyte: I am stuck in one place
miobyte: u sound like an expert
struct: How about you stopping flooding the chat?
Astrobytes: I think one can absorb your messages about k8s osmotically given the frequency of you posting about it
Illedan: Can we go back to contest discussions
miobyte: @Nerchio
struct: next time it will be a ban
Illedan: Everyone should stop submitting in Legend, so I can have some propper statistics on my submits
Nerchio: anything i change now seems to be breaking my bot
Nerchio: or the submits are random idk
Illedan: submits are somewhat random
Illedan: Offline training dit not work
Astrobytes: offline training == asking the chicken for new magic numbers? :D
Illedan: Yeah, I found a new number on the serial number of the package
Astrobytes: hahaha
kovi: in game picture i see live training, no wonder you fail with offline
Illedan: :)
struct: how am I going to win 4.5 points...
eulerscheZahl: you don't, that's the problem
eulerscheZahl: delete your account. i might follow you on that journey
Astrobytes: :D
struct: I will get legend
Illedan: Can I have all your C# codes then?
eulerscheZahl: sure thing
eulerscheZahl: great sale
struct: I have no C# bots orry
struct: sorry*
Astrobytes: just make your cg repos public
Astrobytes: [solved]
ilgiocatore: gold boss really loves continuous integration and tech debt
Illedan: Then I would never get a job offer again
Astrobytes: :D
KingWhitfield2011: hi struct
KingWhitfield2011: sup guys
jacek: tech debt on jenkins?
KingWhitfield2011: ?
eulerscheZahl: i8fb promoted
kovi: gratz
kovi: barely...but doing it solo
jacek: solo?
Astrobytes: wasn't pushed
Sheeesh---: congrats i8fbnkyw
StevenV: oh my silver :
Sheeesh---: it's like watching the stock market
Astrobytes: Far more interesting imo
Astrobytes: Paint drying is also far more interesting than watching stock markets.
Astrobytes: *Watching paint drying
Sheeesh---: i'm talking about the arena tho not the game
eulerscheZahl: Sheeesh--- is this a bug at 61?
https://www.codingame.com/replay/645968631
Astrobytes: I'm also talking of the arena :)
eulerscheZahl: you release an application for 4 debt. you could take another one with only 2
jacek: and yet he won
Sheeesh---: oh
Sheeesh---: that means i can still improve my bot
Sheeesh---: it's not a bug
Illedan: ValGrowth?!
Sheeesh---: it's just my bad code
Astrobytes: Almost top 5 JP only :D
Astrobytes: wala saving the day
PatrickMcGinnisII: eulerscheZahl looks like it's doing a prevent on you releasing 15 because u have 1 automated CI
Astrobytes: ValGrowth almost getting a solid lead
Astrobytes: Psyho holding out well
Huctor: hwo to change english version ?
Astrobytes: Get the 2022 edition of the dictionary?
eulerscheZahl: no PatrickMcGinnisII. even for blocking me there is a better option
PatrickMcGinnisII: well u have 2CI in inventory and enough bonus to cover...*shrug*
eulerscheZahl: if you want to block me, take app 27
Astrobytes: 6/8 top legend are JP, the 2 others are PL :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: u don't have inventory tho
Astrobytes: JP invasion :)
ValGrowth: The massive improvements I worked on over three days finally paid off :)
Rafarafa: so this gold boss is going to be the same until the end of the challenge or does he update?
eulerscheZahl: congrats
Astrobytes: looking good ValGrowth!
eulerscheZahl: the boss will stay as is
Rafarafa: damn, thanks
eulerscheZahl: evil boss, i know
jacek: :(
Astrobytes: oh come on jacek, you're loving it :D
eulerscheZahl: i don't blame you jacek, you didn't pitch it as the boss
eulerscheZahl: i blame illedan who was asked if jacek is ok
Illedan: ;)
Astrobytes: hahaha
Rafarafa: :(
jacek: huh
eulerscheZahl: let's see if this submit gets me anywhere. trying the opening book steal once again
eulerscheZahl: close to the 100k limit thanks to it
MSmits: wow
eulerscheZahl: i'm bowwow now
MSmits: it's unlike you to write so much code
jacek: why bowwow
Illedan: opening book steal?
Astrobytes: must be some opening book!
eulerscheZahl: i downloaded his last games and imported all moves that don't result in releasing the first app
Astrobytes: game-length opening book :smirk:
eulerscheZahl: if i find this exact state in my game, i'll do what he does
Astrobytes: lol
eulerscheZahl: and the submit is not looking good
Psyho: oh yeah, I want to steal opening moves as well
Nerchio: xd
Psyho: my early game sucks
Astrobytes: desperation has truly kicked in euler
eulerscheZahl: then i won't try to steal you
Illedan: yeah
kovi: its not trivial
kovi: if it doesnt match the behaviour of later eval/heuristics
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, I'm blocking opp releases and still losing
Psyho: my opening as a 2nd player was to do MOVE 7 when opponent did MOVE 5 :D
eulerscheZahl: smart
Psyho: + 0.5 locally after fixing it at MOVE 2 :D
Illedan: WTF
Illedan: I only allow my bot to play 1 card during PLAY_CARD
Illedan: :D
eulerscheZahl: prevents timeouts
Illedan: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Illedan: This should be far better
Illedan: Else I'll be very sad
Sheeesh---: lost against the boss 4 times in a row
Astrobytes: if (!first) delete;
Sheeesh---: sorry guys cD
Sheeesh---: lol
eulerscheZahl: ban
eulerscheZahl: did you correct the choice of app to release?
Sheeesh---: yeah
Sheeesh---: didn't change that much
Nikanameu: is this multiplayer after contest?
Sheeesh---: but thanks!!
struct: yes
Astrobytes: Yes Nikanameu
eulerscheZahl: because astro announced it
Astrobytes: I said so thus so mote it be
Astrobytes: (it was on discord)
eulerscheZahl: my bowow immitation is pretty lame. maybe only the first 2 or 3 turns then?
Illedan: But ValGrowth is far better?
Illedan: Which reminds me, I should go watch his replays
Astrobytes: euler doesn't care now, just yolo legend
Nerchio: instead of adding stuff I try to remove stuff now
Illedan: Scoring based on player score is my latest thing :D
Astrobytes: ...what was it before?
kovi: renesance of refactor / removing techdebt strat Nerchio?
MSmits: I know the feeling euler. I've been in contests before where I stayed just below the legend cut for the entire weekend, only beating gold midnight after sunday. Hope it goes better for you
Nerchio: I try to remove everything and see what works kovi :D more techdebt didnt work for me so far
jacek: you put techdebt in your code instead
Neumann: Are you allowed to play TRAINING if you have only 1 card available in DRAW/DISCARD ? And if so, what happens ?
Neumann: Same for CODING if DRAW/DISCARD is empty
eulerscheZahl: you can and you will get only 1 card
eulerscheZahl: coding will give you 1 extra action and no card
Neumann: Ok thanks
darkhorse64: sure ? it does empty discard
darkhorse64: ?
darkhorse64: it does not empty discard ?
eulerscheZahl: the question was: if there are no cards
struct: he did say 1 card right?
Astrobytes: "Same for CODING if DRAW/DISCARD is empty"
eulerscheZahl: 1 card for training
0 for coding
struct: ah
struct: ok
darkhorse64: sorry, I misread. You are right
struct: sorry
eulerscheZahl: and i'm incapable of stealing an opening via script. it just plays worse than without
Astrobytes: rest your brain a little, you'll come up with something better
eulerscheZahl: i'll just submit that thing that has a remote hope of getting pushed
eulerscheZahl: then go to bed
eulerscheZahl: and cry myself into sleep
eulerscheZahl: (the last wasn't serious)
Illedan: :hug:
PatrickMcGinnisII: my last change brought me up to Astrobytes, but still no topp silver or gold
Astrobytes: you'll get legend
Astrobytes: my best is 5 to 8th Patrick
eulerscheZahl: nice submit Illedan. is that with multiple plays?
Astrobytes: I'm refactoring so I can read my code better and tweaking
Illedan: Yeah
Astrobytes: nice. Significant difference :D
Illedan: Who would have thought
Illedan: -.-
Astrobytes: hehe, nevermind, you found it :)
Quidome: Did I get that correctly, discard is only shuffled back in during start of turn with the draw (if needed)?\
StevenV: so I reached the limit to test my bot :(
Astrobytes: if draw is called discard is shuggled into draw pile if draw pile is empty
Astrobytes: *shuffled
Quidome: aha I see, draw is called 4 times i suppose :)\
Quidome: I you play an card in an action can you use that same card with release?
Illedan: Next challenge, wall of Japanese :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: topcoder also has a lot of jp
Astrobytes: the JP guys have been going hardcore the last few CG contests :)
Psyho: atcoder is partially responsible for that
Astrobytes: that makes sense, good point
Psyho: half of people in marathons are japanese
Illedan: Ah, I can do my above Psyho tweet again now :D
Psyho: :D
Astrobytes: nice to see more 'cross-pollination' for want of a better term between platforms recently
Quidome: what does skill automation mean in the game?
struct: automated cards can be used to release apps
struct: its like a passive skill
Quidome: Sounds powerfull
Nerchio: eulerscheZahl opening book? :D
Nerchio: feed me
Nerchio: :rage:
Astrobytes: what's the boss at points-wise?
Nerchio: 31.10
Astrobytes: oof
eulerscheZahl: i disabled the book again
struct: one more night of suffering for me
struct: :p
Nerchio: euler can you beat down the boss
PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.codingame.com/replay/646003474
Rafarafa: is it possible to check how many of my loses are from starting second?
Astrobytes: you love it struct
PatrickMcGinnisII: 120 frame tie game
jacek: its not tie
eulerscheZahl: yes Rafarafa. just open all replays and count
struct: not really, I just want to get legend and be done with it, its probably harder than the spider challenge
Astrobytes: you won that Patrick
struct: Since I cant cheese with triple wind
EDA1010: :joy: hello guys
EDA1010: any advice on how to prepare for Amazon assessment
EDA1010: I've one Can someone help this poor guy get a job
Astrobytes: good knife skills and rainforest experience
PatrickMcGinnisII: 10 debt is usually my endgame if I don't lose ... but way too many frames
Nerchio: euler can you go back to opening books
EDA1010: :joy: Not that Amazon
Astrobytes: just joking EDA1010 ;)
EDA1010: I know bro no hard feelings :grin:
eulerscheZahl: why Nerchio?
Nerchio: you beat me and I was good :(
eulerscheZahl: my opening book didn't even make it to top20
StevenV: around 4x in silver, gold is too far for me :*
Astrobytes: EDA1010: I don't have any Amazon-specific advice but be confident, stay calm and focus
jacek: and play the amazons
struct: solve it
EDA1010: thank you guys , where I can find it if you may and sorry I'm somewhat new here , thank you in advance :grinning:
Astrobytes: struct and jacek you can both undo your handiwork and help this guy
jacek: :zipper_mouth:
Astrobytes: struct is a mod, he has to explain or there will be consequences :P
struct: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/amazons
jacek: oO
Astrobytes: EXPLAIN not perpetuate the troll!
EDA1010: thank you guys I wish you a good weekend
jacek: umm
struct: Yeah it should take about a weekend
EDA1010: thx again if I did su
EDA1010: succed I'll let you know
jacek: youd better practice on easy puzzles first
jacek: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
Astrobytes: is your assessment on here EDA1010?
EDA1010: I'm doing so right now
EDA1010: No they prefer Hackerrank
jacek: if amazon uses codingame platform for recruitment, the puzzle will be similar. input/output etc
Astrobytes: I see, I'd advise completing medium-difficulty puzzles at least either here or hackerrank
Sheeesh---: "You reached the limit of plays for a period of time." for more than 1 hours now
EDA1010: thank you I will do my best at the end if things didn't go well at least I know I did my best
Astrobytes: You will know what to focus on after that EDA1010, interviews/assessments are great learning experiences too
Astrobytes: and good luck!
Astrobytes: mods these days :rolling_eyes: :P
struct: Just had an idea, I have something to work on tonight
struct: rank 1 incoming
struct: Maybe I cant win a phone since I'm a mod
Astrobytes: teaming up with Dapo?
struct: They don't want me slacking
struct: Obviously, I explained him the rules to save his time
struct: That's about all I did
Astrobytes: :D
StevenV: silver 12, gold, I am coming
jacek: :tada:
Astrobytes: don't bet on it StevenV lol
Nerchio: :rocket:
jacek: :head_bandage:
Astrobytes: bone Heide :+1:
Astrobytes: *bon
Nerchio: commenting out random lines of code in hopes it will work better - this is what peak coding looks like whether you like it or not
Astrobytes: I've been doing that all day
MSmits: yeah i hate this part
struct: I hate this since day -1
emh: my heuristics bot is still way better than my sim bot
emh: I gotta make a hybrid but it's a lot to port from Java to C++
Astrobytes: still a fair bit of time left
Illedan: https://www.codingame.com/replay/646044240
My last 2 releases here :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: all I'm good for is pushing top silber higher
MSmits: push them all out PatrickMcGinnisII
Illedan: How is the bot MSmits? Any ideas for top 5?
MSmits: yeah i am working on something, but no luck so far.
Astrobytes: not giving advice to others I would guess :D
Illedan: SmitsiDrawCardsMax?
MSmits: I am not saying, just in case it works :P
Illedan: :)
Illedan: Good
struct: sorry Nerchi o
Illedan: At least keep quite when I'm off chat
Illedan: ^^
Astrobytes: hence my statement :P
MSmits: I did help out some people today, but only repeating the things i already shared on world chat
struct: people pm for advice?
Astrobytes: that doesn't count
MSmits: yea
struct: They only pm me to ask why they got kicked or banned
Astrobytes: no amusing money offers?
MSmits: no
Astrobytes: shame, they make great screenshots
MSmits: yea would be funny
Astrobytes: anyway, get coding
MSmits: mostly debugging now, figuring out why my bot is total crap with the new thing :)
MSmits: it's a lot of new, so... might be bug, or it just doesn't work
Illedan: Let me know if you need help
MSmits: :)
Astrobytes: :D
Illedan: I only accept shitcoins
MSmits: lol
Astrobytes: jobbycoin
struct: I hate brutaltester
struct: WWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Astrobytes: hate the bot not the tester
struct: at least my bot uses 0ms so its fast to test
Astrobytes: crashbot excels at time saving
Palmipedus: VilBoub je suis passe devant toi
Palmipedus: sorry wrong chat
Palmipedus: that's world :D
Astrobytes: c'est cool Palmipedus :D
Michael_Howard: HEyou have a British
Michael_Howard: flag. Is that so you can get the country prize :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Palmipedus: haha, not really, I'm french but leave in the uk since 2014
Astrobytes: moi aussi Michael_Howard, doesn't mean we can't inulge
Astrobytes: *indulge
Astrobytes: Palmipedus: that brexit wasn't a problem?
Michael_Howard: Right. I'm doing the next challenge from Liechtenstein
Palmipedus: for the country definitely, for me personnaly no as I have the right to stay infinitly and if shit hit the fam more than now, I can still go back to France :D
Astrobytes: I envy you Palmipedus, I'm Scottish
Palmipedus: tbh, the only reason we stay at the moment is for the kids to learn english, for them to be really bilingual
Astrobytes: move to Bretagne, lots of expat-Brits there to teach :D
Palmipedus: Astrobytes god poor you, I always feel that the "union" is just a name
Astrobytes: It is Palmipedus. In my lifetime I wish to see Scottish and Irish freedom from the 'union'
Palmipedus: yeah but learn the culture and speak the english at school is what make you really bilingual (by expereeince)
Palmipedus: honeslty I think there is a way, it may be 'easier' for irish as thay have the GFA and just need a refenrendum
Palmipedus: Astrobytes for Scotland, even if you guys get a referendum and win, they will lie and do everything they can to keep you in
Astrobytes: true regarding 'cultural immersion' wrt language, wise move.
If there was Irish unity and no SCots independence there would be a lot of trouble. The two are interconnected in a way that is kinda hard to see unless you're one or the other.
And yes, you are correct there. Though this current English government are willing to tear up any agreements they feel like
Psyho: whoever is resubmitting in legend, pls keep doing it - it's clearly good for my ranking
Palmipedus: it's just my opinion but I think the Irish will be first thanks to Brexit and Scotland might follow depending how the Westmister plays it
Illedan: Np Psyho
Palmipedus: Psyho anyway there is a rerun in Legend at the end of the contest, so ranking in that league means not much
Illedan: But it's fun to be first!
Psyho: it's good for screenshots and tweets!
Illedan: ^
Psyho: the rerun is from scratch or from current position?
Illedan: Need to counter the tweet of ValGrowth
Illedan: Current position, but with Tan (or what that parameter in TrueSkill is called) reset
Astrobytes: Palmipedus: It's certainly possible yes. And don't forget the Welsh (and the Cornish, somewhat :P Breton separatists!) but Wastemonster (as we call Westminster) will never allow any of this without a long protracted fight, legal or not
Psyho: "I'm doing a major remodeling now, and the one I have now has 1700 lines, and the one I have is 3700 lines."
Psyho: 3700 O_O
struct: lol
Astrobytes: tau Illedan?
Illedan: I guess that is it
Psyho: yep, tau
Psyho: wait, you mean sigma?
Astrobytes: there's also mu
Astrobytes: so lets try to guess what Illedan meant
Illedan: Going into the forums, never really cared about that detail
Psyho: you don't reset tau, tau is that parameter that artificially bumps up sigma so that rankings dont stabilize
struct: rank 59, soon enough ill make
struct: But today I need to rest
Astrobytes: mu just introduces farm animals or cats depending on your pronunciation so don't worry about that param
Illedan: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/propositions-to-replace-bo5-final-contest-rerun/2851/8
Illedan: Maybe
Illedan: Nah
Illedan: There has to be a post from pb4 about this case
Astrobytes: what about br?
Illedan: He made his own calculations
Illedan: or are you talking about battle royale?
Astrobytes: something in that thread about the differences though?
Astrobytes: no bitrunner
Astrobytes: might be something in another contest thread, just clutching at pb4 straws
Psyho: I read the thread but it doesn't say what CG is using, right?
Illedan: No, I think you have to find the specific Contest thread, where this issue was discussed and the rerun details were created :P
Psyho: I'd imagine it was right after the contest where I really pissed off
Psyho: and refused to take the prize for the 3rd
Illedan: Which one?
Psyho: *where I was
Psyho: the arcade puzzle thing
struct: STC
Psyho: drop puzzle with combos
Astrobytes: STC yeah
struct: But what happened?
struct: ah the recalc
struct: It barely changes the rankings tbh
struct: Its like they give less point per match or something, idk how it works
Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/smash-the-code-question-about-the-final-ranking/1515
Psyho: there was also one more problem that not related to rankings that was kind of nasty
Psyho: the VMs that were used were changed
struct: what could go wrong /s
Psyho: and eldidou used rdtsc for timing
Astrobytes: :P
Psyho: the new VMs had different clock speed and suddenly he timed out like 30% of the matches or so
Illedan: lol, that sucks
Psyho: (that happened right before the end of the contest and he didnt notice)
Astrobytes: madness
struct: last contest there was a clear cut winner it was SC21
Psyho: oh, but STC had big differences
struct: let me see
struct: https://www.codingame.com/contests/smash-the-code/leaderboard/global
struct: oh yeah
Astrobytes: nice to see you back at least Psyho ;)
Psyho: for example I had like ~65% WR over eldidou (I remember I run a ton of games)
Psyho: the thing was that with the default tau and no other workarounds, essentially the last 50 games define the ranking
Astrobytes: brutal
Psyho: default tau is 0.083333 (and I believe that was the value used atm, for comparison I use 0.00025 locally)
struct: larger values impacts the elo more?
Psyho: larger values never stabilize the ranking
Psyho: i.e. no matter how many games you run, it never stabilizes
struct: ah I think I understand
Psyho: (you need tau>0 when new bots are introduced, but you can set tau=0 when you stop adding new bots)
Astrobytes: hence the earlier comment re Tau
Astrobytes: ie. tau should tend to 0 as the recalc progresses
Astrobytes: *calc not recalc
Astrobytes: great that all this is discussable openly when CG is in its twilight years :(
jakeHaln: Hello guys
Astrobytes: CG community I mean, not CG, it's fine
Psyho: oh, you CG community is dying?
Psyho: doesnt contest have a ton of participants?
Astrobytes: For a while now yeah.
Astrobytes: Yeah but there's always been a strong core base, even that's diminishing
Psyho: wasnt Spring Challenge 2022 the largest contest so far?
Astrobytes: The reduced contest count per year, no more community-made contests
Psyho: ah ok
Psyho: the larger it gets, to more it costs :(
Astrobytes: It was yeah, re 2022 Spring
Psyho: *the more
Astrobytes: Yeah, but there's some hope I guess. This contest is made by longtime members who work for SG, and got SG to sponsor it
Astrobytes: So that might be some kind of beacon of light
Astrobytes: The board game community won't die, people make games a lot for just community. The lack of chat -> moving to discord will kill a bit of that I fear
Psyho: I like discord
Psyho: isn't it just the problem with mentality
Psyho: i.e. that's fine to shit talk here, but somehow not on discord
aCat: because this chat is always near
Astrobytes: I don't mind it either, the chat here is quite immediate and nice, I can do other things on my other monitor, but I understand people who don't wanna switch
aCat: and you watch CG IDE or replays at the same time
aCat: Discord is yet another app
Astrobytes: yeah that's it aCat
struct: Can always try to ask them to not remove it
Illedan: Yeah, Discord will kill the chatting :(
struct: :p
aCat: I use it all the time but that's switching context too much for CG
Illedan: We need low key shit-chat to keep the contest spirit up
aCat: :+1:
Psyho: but discrod works well on mobile
Astrobytes: I'm always on discord but I can't leave a channel open just for CG all the time
struct: It would be nice to at least have this chat during contests
Psyho: so you can keep up with your shit talking while going out for a walk
Astrobytes: I don't use internet things on my phone ;)
struct: I need win this phone to join discord
struct: Not looking good atm
Astrobytes: :D
aCat: Illedan how many sims you have?
aCat: You have sims till endgame?
struct: yesterday he had100
Astrobytes: 1 sim, probably a lot of playouts though :P
Psyho: so probably 50 now
aCat: Im asking about today
aCat: I have like 500 :(
struct: 500 until end?
YurkovAS: 1sim = 1 move?
Illedan: 700
aCat: y
BrunoFelthes: Monte Carlo sim?
Psyho: I think I have 2k (at the start)
YurkovAS: i'm have 50-60k sims
Astrobytes: 1 sim for me == working sim
Psyho: but rollouts are really dumb
Illedan: My type of sim :)
Psyho: *buy my
struct: YurkovAS MCTS?
Illedan: 50-60k?!
Psyho: I swear this chat has autocorrect
aCat: 50-60k!?
Illedan: What is a sim?
Astrobytes: lol Psyho
YurkovAS: 50-60k sims
1sim = 1 move
Illedan: and 1 sim = 1 play card?
struct: oh I have 200k with beam
aCat: root of the game until end of the game
Illedan: 1 move + give + throw + play + release = 5?
struct: 1 move = 1 action
Psyho: oh, but with rollouts/monte carlo, you need heuristic
Illedan: I have 10-20k of those
YurkovAS: yes = 5
Psyho: so the bottleneck is not the sim, but the logic for moves
Illedan: Then ok
BrunoFelthes: i have 4k sims until the end, and my results are pure garbage
Illedan: I have 700 rollouts
aCat: you give mo hepe Ille
struct: Do you sim opponent Illedan? no need to answer
aCat: I don't have to be so fast as those crazy cpps ^^'
Illedan: sure
Illedan: Some of the time
Illedan: The rest I put him in a corner to cry
Psyho: in rollouts you have to, otherwise it defeats the purpose
struct: Tomorrow Im going to try mcts with opponent, it might be a waste of time but w/e
Astrobytes: did you try SP?
struct: no
struct: I tried beam, chokudai, synced beam
struct: all failed
struct: Maybe I had a bug
Psyho: can we bet on whether its going to turn to be a waste of time?
struct: sure
Astrobytes: someone make one of those poll things
Psyho: lemme quickly mint some psyhocoins
struct: It wont be a lot of time since I can reuse it from other multis
Astrobytes: psyhocoins :D
Astrobytes: when was synced beam a thing btw struct? on cg
struct: spring challenge 21
aCat: trees
Astrobytes: I missed the synced part
Astrobytes: :D
Psyho: made the poll: https://take.quiz-maker.com/poll4392423xB00D497f-138
struct: :)
struct: I voted
Astrobytes: heh heh heh
Psyho: never heard of synced beam
Psyho: (but I'm terrible with knowing names for algorithms)
DomiKo: that isn't really the name
MSmits: isn't that a ghostbuster thing
Psyho: and I believe "chokudai" search is known as beam stack search?
struct: yeah probably coined by CG
MSmits: synced beams?
Illedan: gn
Astrobytes: gn Ille
MSmits: gn
Astrobytes: yes Psyho, re Chokudai
Psyho: gn
struct: gn
Psyho: I find it weird to have an algorithm named after you just because you have a lot of followers on twitter
struct: Since the game had days and you could output multiple actions per turn you added the finished states for that day to a diferent stack
Astrobytes: DomiKo: what's the proper name?
struct: but kept adding the unfinished to the next states
DomiKo: "multiple actions" you mean different number of actions
Astrobytes: Psyho: MSmits has one named after him because he named it so :D
DomiKo: Astrobytes I don't think there is a name for it
struct: Let me search in the forum
Psyho: vanity!
struct: maybe someone explains it ebetter
MSmits: indeed
Astrobytes: hehehe
Astrobytes: what was agreed on in the end via Dapo?
Psyho: heh, I did popularized few weird algorithms on topcoder, but never thought about naming them
Astrobytes: UCT Forest, thatos the one
Psyho: like, the simulated annealing most people use on TC
MSmits: ye
Psyho: is not simulated annealing
MSmits: what do they use?
Astrobytes: another hc variant presumably
struct: I guess euler explains it better
struct: https://forum.codingame.com/t/spring-challenge-2021-feedbacks-strategies/190849/2
Psyho: SA is defined by using double() < exp(result_delta / temp)
struct: Its quite simple to understand it if you already know beam
Psyho: as acceptance
Astrobytes: that's how I do SA
Astrobytes: maybe that's why mines never works right on TC
Astrobytes: :P
Psyho: it's good in general case, but not when hyperoptimizing for 10s execution time
Astrobytes: yeah admittedly it's best used as a partial search
Psyho: new_score > old_score + rng() * temp
is usually better
emh: both my bots are 85k.. if I merge them I guess I might have a problem
emh: though there should be a good amount of reuse
struct: 85k chars?
emh: ls -alh
Astrobytes: the weird things I have done to that calculation...
emh: so yes
BrunoFelthes: what is best at the start of the game 2 bonus or 1 less td?
Astrobytes: yes
Psyho: 2 bonus in general
Psyho: but it's really tricky
Psyho: the "perfect play" is to get a lot of cards, so that you build all of your last 3-4 apps in a single shuffle
Psyho: so that your debt cards wont ever get shuffled into draw pile
struct: interesting
Psyho: 2 bonus drastically helps with that because it makes your deck larger
Psyho: and so, it gives you more time/turns to achieve that
BrunoFelthes: hummm
struct: its time to rest for me, gn everyone
emh: gn struct
Astrobytes: gn
MSmits: gn
PatrickMcGinnisII: BrunoFelthes imo what is best is an ARCH study or a CONT int. depending on what is in your hand, if your opponent is sitting on/near it, etc.
PatrickMcGinnisII: 40 in silver, I'm done...don't want to eval sims
struct: cant sleep oh well
Lysk: might as well code then ;)
struct: A bit tired, but I will
Lysk: what would be a good timer to use in python?
oidrissi: If someone is interested in showing me their implementation of a simulation :joy: :joy: I would be very grateful
struct: That sounds like a great idea
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a1d3e4e7-0c0a-400f-b0b7-cadf2cb87a06
oidrissi: Didn't get to see that, expired
eulerscheZahl: no promotion popup on login. sad
struct: euler keep your hopes up
struct: I'm sure you will manage to get legend
eulerscheZahl: of course. that's the law
struct: Even I still have hope to get legend
eulerscheZahl: or delete
struct: why not
eulerscheZahl: oh, your profile even says top50 or delete
eulerscheZahl: top50 might even be easier than legend
Dapps: made many improvements since getting up to gold
Dapps: they've all added up to me 2nd last in gold
struct: hard to see what improvements are here
struct: at least for me
BrunoFelthes: i'm justing running out of ideas... my last improvement was a giant open book
BrunoFelthes: that made my code too large
struct: yeap im also running out but I have to make a mcts to know the bet result
BrunoFelthes: more than 1 turn? or just 1?
struct: more
struct: but no rollout
BrunoFelthes: i think that it is too late to start another simulator
struct: probably yeah
struct: There is something we are missing
struct: I just don't know what
BrunoFelthes: I know... my simulator is just a garbage
struct: Im sure its doable to write a sim from scratch
struct: You know the full rules now
struct: It was hard at the start because we had no idea what the rules were
BrunoFelthes: I should do something like the algo used at fall challenge 2020...
BrunoFelthes: the one that we built potions
struct: what did you use?
struct: beam search?
BrunoFelthes: yeah...
BrunoFelthes: stacked beam search
BrunoFelthes: open book, with a stacked beam search
BrunoFelthes: this game has a clear distinct 3 phases... built bonus, built 4 points with low TD, end the game with luck...
Westicles: didn't pysho stream his approach? just do that
Westicles: or is it 8 hours of mumbling and typing sounds?
Whysaac: if a clash ends before you finish is there a way to continue playing until you can complete it?
