Alex139: AMONGGUS
ninjadip: is there a hotline for stressed coders
ninjadip: to keep them from formatting all their drives
Dren: I don't think they would ever make one
Dren: the queue to get to talk to someone would just make things worse
ninjadip: maybe writing the code for the customer service queue would help relieve me lol
ninjadip: haven't used a good list in a while
MrZee: I rely on lists a bit too much I think lol
ninjadip: i'm an array for a known size and vector for dynamic
ninjadip: but it's nothing big
ninjadip: i love a linked list though
Wontonimo: i just learnt the trick of deleting from the middle of a fixed array, so long as you don't care about order
Wontonimo: swap the last element with the one you want to delete, and keep track that your 'valid' list size is one less
struct: delete and move the other elements?
struct: ah I see
DaNinja: list[i] = list[--size] ?
Wontonimo: i was like "omg, i've been programming for 25 years and why am i only seeing this now?"
Wontonimo: yeah, that's a really nice short form DaNinja
Wontonimo: but i think it is off by one
struct: why?
Wontonimo: list[i] = list[--size-1]
struct: no
struct: -- decrements first
Wontonimo: oh, no, you are right!
Wontonimo: i haven't used it yet. maybe it'll speed up my uttt bot
struct: why would you need this on uttt?
Wontonimo: children i want to prune
struct: I see, I dont this at all
struct: you use mcts too right?
Wontonimo: ah... nope. a quick scan of my code and there is no good way of pruning without redoing the architecture
Wontonimo: yeah MCTS
struct: there must be some tricks for uttt
struct: im not aware of yet
struct: also there must be a few way to make my mcts faster
Wontonimo: oh, i see a possible optimization now that i was looking for a place to use the delete from list
Wontonimo: it wasn't a delete from list
Wontonimo: here i go ! Was 35th
struct: did you submit?
Wontonimo: yup
Wontonimo: not a bad start
Wontonimo: it wasn't a huge improvement
struct: here is my bot with rollouts if you want to check
struct: https://www.codingame.com/replay/605729988
Wontonimo: to speed, so probably won't change my rank much at all
Wontonimo: outch, you crushed me
Wontonimo: it's pretty late here. i'm going off to sleep
struct: gn
struct: i have to go to sleep to
struct: 5:38 am
Wontonimo: it was a fun day of catching up ! see ya later
Wontonimo: gn
Lambert_W_Function: aw
DaNinja: gn
Lambert_W_Function: gn mods
C26_1: Hello everyỏn
C26_1: everyone*
C26_1: Can I ask something?
C26_1: Which in of these are better in calculating data: Excel or SQL
5DN1L: You can google to find comparison between the two. For example this one: https://sqlspreads.com/blog/sql-and-excel-why-you-need-both/
C26_1: ok
C26_1: I've read that comparision post that @5DN1L gave to me, and I have somethings I want to say
C26_1: Excel didn't have any variable in Formula Bar
C26_1: So it's hard to debug
C26_1: Except if you want to do some coding then yes, Excel has VBA
C26_1: =IF((F3-E3)<INDEX($I$18:$M$21,MATCH(RIGHT(D3,1),$H$18:$H$21,0),MATCH(LEFT(D3,2),$I$17:$M$17,0)),F3-E3,INDEX($I$18:$M$21,MATCH(RIGHT(D3,1),$H$18:$H$21,0),MATCH(LEFT(D3,2),$I$17:$M$17,0)))
C26_1: This is an example of a formula in Excel
5DN1L: keep it brief, don't flood the chat
C26_1: Notice that I use INDEX($I$18:$M$21,MATCH(RIGHT(D3,1),$H$18:$H$21,0),MATCH(LEFT(D3,2),$I$17:$M$17,0)) in both comparision test and value return if the condition is false
C26_1: If I can use variable in Formula Bar then of course it'll cleaner
C26_1: That is one of the major problem for Excel Beginners
5DN1L: C26_1 keep it brief please.
C26_1: ok
5DN1L: in Excel every cell is a variable
5DN1L: and you can name cells and ranges to make things a little bit clearer
rendermanGL: SQL for sure.
5DN1L: Automaton2000, learn about critical thinking
Automaton2000: ok i suck at them
jacek: thats what she..
5DN1L: You've grasped every opportunity...
5DN1L: Thank goodness no female coders here say they feel harassed
5DN1L: or offended
jacek: is Automaton2000 offended?
Automaton2000: jacek what have u done
jacek: :scream:
5DN1L: tsk tsk tsk
Melting_Ice: hi, is anyone from UK here?
CARNAG: me
skityperi: hey haw to learn basic on python
5DN1L: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=haw+to+learn+basic+%20on+python
skityperi: tnx
5DN1L: you're welcome
jacek: maybe he asked for basic interpreter on python
jacek: is Automaton2000 written in basic?
Automaton2000: i think my sim is correct
emergenitro: hello
Yass-is-in: guys anyone has a java roadmap
5DN1L: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=java+roadmap
5DN1L: yeah, jacek, maybe he did want to learn basic on python :upside_down:
jacek: nyoro~n
jacek: Automaton2000 kree java!
Automaton2000: you know your code is just not good enough
xlr4829: cout >> "Hello World"
jacek: umm
MSmits: cout << "Hello World" << endl;
MSmits: you're welcome
jacek: it clearly cures cancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTZGtIoByTg
MSmits: Japanese rickroll?
jacek: :smirk:
struct: hi
kayos: :)
sonumohib: Wth did I just watch
struct: you are asking me?
jacek: i think its an open question
Mehmetvv: hi
jacek: good evening
Mehmetvv: you too
Mehmetvv: But in our contry it is 19:39 I guess it is not evening
smart_pointer: hello
Dren: ? isn't it evening after like 6
jacek: Automaton2000 what time of day is it
Automaton2000: so i do not know how to deal with all the stuff in the ide
saeed50050: i don't understand battel's questions
Dren: what do you mean
5DN1L: Automaton2000 do you know someone called battel?
Automaton2000: mind if i use my own code
jacek: MSmits the shape is pretty isnt it https://preview.redd.it/cvudmi2gnue81.jpg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1af0d4f2efe9e5802eb0a82be426c7afad8c942b
imshy: suop
JayBe: Hi. Where can i find the puzzle of the week?
MACKEYTH: Ugh, I am having an embarrassingly hard time getting out of the Wood league in Ultimate TTT 😩
5DN1L: JayBe Under notifications
jacek: wood?
MACKEYTH: Yes. I've got some logic error in my minimax approach that is making my algo miss losing moves.
jacek: doint MCTS?
chneery: im new
jacek: ahh
chneery: well im in level 3
jacek: so it was minimax bugs in atari go then?
chneery: what
jacek: hello
chneery: um are you real
chneery: or not
5DN1L: imagine we're real
chneery: no i mean are you online
chneery: because im a hacker
Astrobytes: ahh cg chat
chneery: im not a hacker
5DN1L: i'm a mod
chneery: im just pranking
5DN1L: i don't tolerate spam
jacek: how Automaton2000 is real if our eyes are not real?
Automaton2000: if you mean it was a contest
MACKEYTH: No, my Atari Go minimax seems to be working as designed. Although it suddenly started playing suicide moves in Wood 3 for some reason. Sigh.
chneery: ok but are ypkejcdhvpfjhg89perbgvureihpbpgurep
5DN1L: first warning
5DN1L: next time you're kicked out
hashluk: How do I debug procces has timed out in python?
5DN1L: chneery
chneery: ya
chneery: im sorry
jacek: MACKEYTH it chooses losing move despite there are non-losing ones?
Astrobytes: either a scoring bug or sim bug
chneery: :sob:
MACKEYTH: Yeah, and I don't know how it's doing it. It should be catching and ignoring all suicide moves during game tree generation.
jacek: minimax even without eval (only win = INF and lose = -INF and rest 0) should be able to avoid those
chneery: :sob:
5DN1L: chneery if you don't have better to say please keep silent
chneery: :sob:
chneery: are you a real mod
5DN1L: are you testing my patience?
chneery: umm why
5DN1L: i give you some time to think
5DN1L: you now know i'm a real mod
chneery: but i want to be mod to
Astrobytes: :rolling_eyes:
5DN1L: either useless kick or very laggy chat
chneery: you see im not at good a coding my dream is to become a master of coding and make a own websit and games
Astrobytes: sometimes doesn't work for reasons unknown 5DN1L
5DN1L: sigh Astrobytes
chneery: but im a noob
Astrobytes: yeah :|
jacek: those canadians eh
5DN1L: should let canadian mod to deal lol
chneery: ok but how you become a mod
5DN1L: chneery you need to level up
Astrobytes: by behaving yourself
5DN1L: chneery you need to level up a lot
5DN1L: i mean a lot
chneery: to witch level
5DN1L: to wizard level
Astrobytes: Level up so much that Boris Johnson releases a white paper on you
5DN1L: lol
chneery: ok but im in level 3
5DN1L: you'd better solve lots of puzzles here to level up
chneery: ok but level is the wizard level
5DN1L: you'll know when you reach that level
chneery: i dont know
5DN1L: because you haven't solved enough puzzles
chneery: i started to play code game
chneery: ok but how much puzzles
5DN1L: hundreds
chneery: like 500
chneery: or 900
5DN1L: let's see, i've solved more than 400
chneery: like what 700
5DN1L: say 400 ok?
chneery: 400
chneery: i said 400
chneery: so want
chneery: i mean what
5DN1L: now go and solve some puzzles
5DN1L: if you spam here i'll kick you out or even ban you
chneery: i click the help buttion and it sai type /
chneery: hello
5DN1L: link to puzzles is here: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
5DN1L: go there
chneery: ok
chneery: i did
5DN1L: solve some puzzles in silence
5DN1L: hope it works this time
chneery: i did not i dont know the code
chneery: im dumb
chneery: im just a noob waaa
chneery: why me
5DN1L: a noob should learn the basics on another website, not here
chneery: so that means you are baning me
chneery: noooooooooooooooooooooo
chneery: waaaaaaaaaa
5DN1L: i didn't plan to ban you
chneery: ok
5DN1L: but if you continue to act so dramatic like this
5DN1L: i'll have a thought about it
chneery: can it be a another way
chneery: or not
5DN1L: if you wanna learn coding, look for a website to do so
chneery: but i dont know wich website
chneery: but can i do commands
5DN1L: and your dream is to become a master of coding and make your own website and games???
chneery: ya and be a admin
5DN1L: then do research on how!!!
chneery: how on what
5DN1L: nobody's gonna help you if you can't help yourself
5DN1L: research on where to learn coding, how to make your dream come true
charanvir: ok
charanvir: like what i know hour of coding but is boring
Astrobytes: aw do one will ya
charanvir: i whant to know javascript
charanvir: but can i try the commands
charanvir: im leaving
5DN1L: bye, come back when you've learned the basics and learned how to research
e_fishel: ^
charanvir: no i did not found a coding think
charanvir: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
charanvir: but i just want to be a moderator
MACKEYTH: Hah, found the problem. Wasn't identifying won board configurations correctly.
5DN1L: you need some more time to think over things properly chneery
charanvir: is not chneery
charanvir: its charanvir
MACKEYTH: There's that debugging feeling again. "How did this ever work at all?"
Wontonimo: lol
5DN1L: thanks for telling me you've changed the name while the chat doesn't show it
5DN1L: kicked
Astrobytes: MACKEYTH: don't worry, I wasted an hour earlier only to discover my bot was missing the er, while (true) { ... } loop :P
Wontonimo: lol
Wontonimo: i was going to say, who's "charanvir" ?
5DN1L: sigh
Wontonimo: i've found clicking on their name and refreshing their profile page helps
5DN1L: too lazy to do so as it's not that frequent lol
5DN1L: kicked that person just moments ago using the old name
MACKEYTH: Ok, Bronze League, here I come, hopefully.
Wontonimo: what are you playing MACKEYTH ? puzzle of the week?
MACKEYTH: UTTT
Wontonimo: nice
Wontonimo: what algo are you using? minimax, MC, MCTS, GA, ?
MACKEYTH: Nertz. Still losing sometimes. :(
MACKEYTH: Going to use MCTS ultimately, but doing minimax to get to bronze.
charanvir: i did it
charanvir: i finsh a puzzle
Wontonimo: are you using bitboarding or planning on using bitboard?
charanvir: no im not
Wontonimo: not you chneery
Ahmed2k1: hi
5DN1L: charanvir Wontonimo
Wontonimo: talking to MACKEYTH who's a *real* programming :rolling_eyes:
MACKEYTH: I've never used bitboarding before, was planning to store the board as an int array.
MACKEYTH: Do you think bitboarding it would offer a speed advantage, or just save space?
Wontonimo: can I share a 3x3 tic tac toe bitboard with you that uses MC ?
jacek: i store mine as 10 bitboards - 9 smalls and 1 main
Scarfield: Bitboarding is king, once you get into it its quite fun fiddling with imo
Wontonimo: it is able to compute 200,000 complete playouts in 100ms
jacek: bitboard is mostly at least 1 order of magnitude faster
MACKEYTH: That's impressive.
MACKEYTH: Yeah, I'd like to see the example.
Wontonimo: here you go https://tech.io/snippet/LiWPxTS
Scarfield: https://eprints.qut.edu.au/85005/1/__staffhome.qut.edu.au_staffgroupm%24_meaton_Desktop_bits-7.pdf
Wontonimo: it may not be in the language you use , but i'm sure you can get the gist of it
Scarfield: my link is not an example, but a good explanation of how to use bitboarding
Scarfield: also hi folks
Astrobytes: Bitfield
Scarfield: Astrobites
Wontonimo: thanks for the link Scarfield!! I've saved it off and will share
Scarfield: np its quite nice to get the idea
Astrobytes: very useful paper that, but only when you get the basics down
MACKEYTH: Shouldn't be a problem. I can read C++ pretty well, but don't know it well enough to write in it.
charanvir: hi
**charanvir slaps around a bit with a large fishbot
Astrobytes: can someone put that out of its misery
charanvir: guys you can use commands
Scarfield: slap the bass, not the fish
Astrobytes: haha, fish... bass...
Scarfield: xD
5DN1L: one more warning, charanvir, next time you mess around here, you're banned
jacek: who?
charanvir: sorry
charanvir: pls
charanvir: no
5DN1L: just stop it charanvir
charanvir: ok
Scarfield: autocomplete is not the correct name 5DN1L, but he got the message :)
charanvir: but what can i do
5DN1L: chat isn't showing the most updated name
Dren: yeah
5DN1L: that person's profile is
Scarfield: oh, my b
5DN1L: no worries
charanvir: i wish i can be moderator
5DN1L: don't repeat yourself
charanvir: but is not going to happend
charanvir: :sob:
MACKEYTH: Oh, doing bitwise comparisons against a library of winning boards is a good idea. I bet that's fast.
Scarfield: Astrobytes do you know davie504 on youtube?
Astrobytes: Scarfield nope
Astrobytes: bass player?
Scarfield: i think you will like his "bass slapping", he is a sick bass player, but his videoes has a lot of filler material though
Astrobytes: all good, I can skip those parts, noted for later :)
Shadur: it does get repetitive over time.. same editing, same type of jokes, but as a bass player his top notch
Scarfield: https://youtu.be/ZOiAZlAK3ZE?t=297
Scarfield: yea i skip everything but the playing pretty much
MACKEYTH: I wish CG supported multi-threading. I'd like to get more practice writing parallel code.
Scarfield: +1
Astrobytes: you can always make a local arena using as many threads as you like ;)
Scarfield: true, never thought of that lol
Scarfield: trying to get myself into finally learning NNs, would probably be a good time to learn about multithreading the same time i suppose
jacek: getting into hype wagon?
Scarfield: thinking about it at least, gonna do it eventually, but havent been much on cg lately
Wontonimo: MACKEYTH , the code example uses MC, not MCTS. If your UTTT bot is optimized enough then MC is good enough to get you to gold
Wontonimo: For Spring Challenge 2021, MC got my bot to Legend. It isn't the strongest search in town but it is dead simple to code
Wontonimo: and the code is reusable for implementing MCTS
MACKEYTH: I haven't messed with my Spring 2021 bot since I got it to silver. It was my first MCTS.
MACKEYTH: No, wait, that was my Fall 2020 bot. My Spring 2021 bot was if-then. Made it to Gold, though.
MACKEYTH: How is MC different from MCTS?
Astrobytes: flat vs building a tree
Astrobytes: you don't build and use a tree with flat MC, you do with MCTS
Astrobytes: since you need the node stats in MCTS
MACKEYTH: MC just tries random playouts and remembers the best one?
Astrobytes: yep
MACKEYTH: Incroyable. I can't believe that works. Seems like it would be prone to picking unlikely wins from largely negative game states.
charanvir: 24x2=48
5DN1L: coming back with spam doesn't look good
5DN1L: time to ban for good
Wontonimo: good call
Astrobytes: :tada:
Astrobytes: Wontonimo: the intro to ML video you posted for struc t last night was really well done, great example
Wontonimo: oh, thanks
MACKEYTH: I'm still trying to figure out how to get some control over Java garbage collection.
Scarfield: what link? :innocent:
Wontonimo: i didn't have a script for the last bit about minimax and just winged it. blekgh ... didn't really turn out.
Astrobytes: doesn't matter, the important parts were clear as day
Wontonimo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUPFOFbCeFI
MACKEYTH: My Atari Go 9x9 bot showed a huge amount of variation in how far ahead it could build its tree;
Scarfield: wait, this is your video?
Wontonimo: yeah
Scarfield: cool!
Wontonimo: :grin:
MACKEYTH: I can confirm that making all your variables global is _bad_.
Scarfield: subbed ;)
Wontonimo: wow, my 3rd sub! you and my two kids :tada:
Scarfield: xD
Scarfield: it says 73 subs though, mr. humble :p
Wontonimo: :O
Wontonimo: i haven't posted for a year
Astrobytes: and I subbed this morning
Astrobytes: no, this afternoon
Scarfield: soon to surpass pwediepie
Astrobytes: :rofl:
Scarfield: pew pew
Scarfield: hmm you dont sound canadian :thinking:
Astrobytes: yes he doesss
Wontonimo: really?
Astrobytes: listen for aboot
Scarfield: xD
Wontonimo: har har
Astrobytes: no shame in that, us Scots say aboot too
Astrobytes: oot and aboot in ma boat
Wontonimo: we say sorry a lot. it's no joke. When Canada takes over the world the everybody will be sorry
Wontonimo: *then
Scarfield: you, for one, have a pretty thick accent astro :p
Astrobytes: lol thanks :rofl:
Astrobytes: lol Wontonimo, we do it here too
Astrobytes: perhaps not quite to Canadian level but still high
Scarfield: have you used ML on CG wonto?
MACKEYTH: ML?
Wontonimo: Machine Learning
Wontonimo: nope, not yet Scarfield
Scarfield: rgr
Scarfield: cool video though :)
Wontonimo: I did play around with trying to learn position weights for UTTT. It didn't help that I could find.
Astrobytes: probably more 'user-friendly' games to try other than UTTT
Scarfield: ^
Wontonimo: absolutely
justchris: im trying to do connect-4 with ML
justchris: in javascriåt
justchris: javascript
justchris: im ML absolute beginner
Scarfield: javascriåt :scream:
struct: the connect 4 here?
struct: or just a side project?
Wontonimo: what ML are you using? NN, random forest, ?
justchris: on here
justchris: brain.js
justchris: NN
justchris: i have an ambition to replicate a very simple version of AlphaZero but maybe I can't do it
justchris: did u guys use Monte carlo tree search?
Wontonimo: cool. CG (this site) does not support multithreading or GPU btw
struct: yes
Wontonimo: yes
Astrobytes: yes
justchris: do u have any recommendations on puzzles/bot game to learn MCTS?
Wontonimo: (anyone with a bot in Legend in Ultimate Tic Tac Toe used MCTS)
struct: c4
Wontonimo: yeah, Connect 4 is a good suggestion
struct: or just try it on normal tic tac toe
justchris: maybe i should do it first with MCTS then try to improve with ML
struct: its easy to tell if its working or not
Astrobytes: most of the simpler board games tbh
Astrobytes: yeah TTT
justchris: i made a working XOR that works in the CG IDE
justchris: in 200 lines
Wontonimo: try using your bains.js on Mad Pod Racing !
justchris: (if any js coders wanna talk)
justchris: yeah but that will probably take a few more months to do
justchris: optimistically
Wontonimo: something some people here have had some success with is using a NN to estimate the value of the board for one player. Combine that with minimax and you'll probably do really well
justchris: on c4?
Wontonimo: iin general
Astrobytes: many board games including c4
justchris: cool, will look it up
justchris: thanks
Wontonimo: there are two really good articles here on CG about getting started with NNs on this platform
https://tech.io/playgrounds/b51fdf068b6dce96d27cc71eb133ffe113695/neural-network-xor-example-from-scratch-no-libs
and
https://github.com/marchete/Mokka
Wontonimo: ?? wrong link for the 2nd
justchris: yeah what i did is pretty much the same as the XOR
justchris: i followed ur suggestion from last time and tried to tackle a more simple problem
justchris: now i feel that my lack of understanding MCTS(and Minimax) is holding me back
justchris: what are you guys working on?
Astrobytes: 2048
Wontonimo: a roguelike
Wontonimo: and getting feedback for WFC
Wontonimo: trying to make it a more approachable puzzle
Astrobytes: shazbot, I forgot about the roguelike code, well, I have plenty time
Wontonimo: is that a Starbuck reference? that little robot thing that was so stupid
Astrobytes: nah, Mork & Mindy
MACKEYTH: I'm working on an item identifier tool for Nethack.
Astrobytes: aw nice!
MACKEYTH: I've been doing it by spreadsheet for a while, but it's kinda tedious.
Astrobytes: Yeah, automate the boring stuff. Especially if it involves spreadsheets
MACKEYTH: Any other Nethackers here?
Astrobytes: long time since I played that but there are bound to be a few, programmers and rogeulikes go hand-in-hand
Astrobytes: probably find a few people on the discord
MACKEYTH: I just lost a good run last night to carelessness
MACKEYTH: Kraken drowning.
ASM_MOV_INT: they ever consider a dark mode for this website...
MACKEYTH: ??? What would you make darker?
Astrobytes: you know you can set the theme using the settings below this chat right ASM_MOV_INT?
ASM_MOV_INT: chat is great
ASM_MOV_INT: it's the white screens... it's not a problem i regularly use a partially transparent powershell window for non-dark mode websites like this one
MACKEYTH: D'oh. I didn't know that was there, Astrobytes
Astrobytes: ;)
ASM_MOV_INT: one great feature they added to windows 10 a while back was, just hovering your mouse over a window, turns the scroll focus on the tab, window or whatever you hover over, thus I don't need to take the focus away from my powershell transparency window to scroll underneath it
Wontonimo: new puzzle of the week is ascii
Wontonimo: hehe, i like it
Wontonimo: and i've been playing with rasterization and shaders
MACKEYTH: Ok, step 1 complete. I have a UTTT bot that will play randomly and uses bitboards;
Wontonimo: woot!
Wontonimo: MACKEYTH did the win condition check make sense?
MACKEYTH: Yep. Made a constant array of winning bitboards, then check to see if board & template = template
Wontonimo: for the 9x9 board I actually store 9 3x3 boards for the small subboards, and 1 3x3 board that stores the overall
MACKEYTH: Same
Wontonimo: cool
MACKEYTH: Great minds, eh? :)
Wontonimo: oh wow, my "small" performance improvement yesterday for UTTT moved me from 35th to 30th
MACKEYTH: What did you change?
Wontonimo: during expand i used to check every move in 9x9. i added a test to see if the move is forced and if so then only check the 3x3 forced into
Wontonimo: seems dumb that i didn't optimize that before. guess i just forgot about it
MACKEYTH: Looks like a lot of coders got to bronze and gave up. I'm winning about 50%
Jayarrowz: :)
Wontonimo: yeah, that happens in multis where the rules change
Wontonimo: looks like no. 1 in Bronze has a score of ~31 vs your bot ~23
Wontonimo: 4 points difference is i think 9:1 win/loss, whereas 8 points difference is more like 99:1 or more win/loss
MACKEYTH: Jeez, how many games does ReCurse have #1 in? The dude is fierce.
MACKEYTH: Like mutant superpower fierce.
Wontonimo: he burnt himself out doing it ;(
MACKEYTH: Aww, he's not active anymore?
Wontonimo: it would be nice to see him back and loving life, sharing knowledge
MACKEYTH: ++
Wontonimo: he had a baby just after SC2021 which was also a culmination of a few years of NN work he put in at CG to try and get to the top before NN on CG was cool
Wontonimo: and that was the last multi contest, so actually a lot of people slipped away
Wontonimo: sadly, that was my first multi contest and probably last
Wontonimo: so, what's the next thing in your bot?
Wontonimo: can you add MC to your current bot MACKEYTH ?
MACKEYTH: I'll give it a shot
Wontonimo: did MC make sense?
Astrobytes: didn't you have a playground for that Wontonimo?
Wontonimo: no. just a tech.io snippet
Astrobytes: ah right
MACKEYTH: I think so. Like MCTS, except you're just running random playouts from all possible initial moves and counting the wins for each?
Wontonimo: exactly
Wontonimo: you can sub random playouts with a probable heuristic playout, but for UTTT random seems to work best.
Astrobytes: UTTT is notorious for a lack of reliable heuristics
Wontonimo: ^^ +1
p.p.o.p.: Hi chat! Question about my code. This is something that I have been running into repeatedly here. I assign initialize a variable without a value, then give it a value somewhere else. This works in Unity (using same language), where I started coding. Here it tells me it hasn't been assigned. It doesn't feel "proper" to assign it some silly value that I know will be changed.
p.p.o.p.: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/9a07d4a8-747c-4662-aed7-2f25ea55f448
p.p.o.p.: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/86ae787f-01f0-43ae-9b37-a49233dfd2ff
struct: its just a warning
Astrobytes: and what happens if you accidentally use the value of an uninitialised variable? :)
MACKEYTH: That throws an error in Java.
p.p.o.p.: no but i do initialize it. In the for loop
p.p.o.p.: which works in unity and is what the book I am reading says to do
struct: compiler wont know if the surfaceN will be greater or equal to 1
struct: so safeLandingMinX could be unitialized
p.p.o.p.: oh i see
p.p.o.p.: so what is best practice there
p.p.o.p.: ?
struct: maybe initialize with 0
p.p.o.p.: okay. That's what I've been doing but for some reason that felt wrong
p.p.o.p.: thank you!
Ceekay77: This made the Embedded C in me twitch lol
MACKEYTH: MC UTTT bot in the arena
MACKEYTH: Beat Bronze. :)
Astrobytes: nice one MACKEYTH, good luck :)
MACKEYTH: I'm only getting a few hundred sims, though. Not good at all.
Astrobytes: should be getting more for sure
ionKOT: An integer H, the height reached by the ball after the sixth rebound.
ionKOT: whats the math guys
ionKOT: CONSTRAINTS:
1 ≤ H ≤ 10000
MACKEYTH: Depends on the elasticity of the ball and the surface
p.p.o.p.: Seems like if it is an integer it wouldn't be that complex MACEYTH maybe the simulation you are doing has some details?
MACKEYTH: Thought experiment: beanbag bouncing on pillow vs ball bearing on steel plate. Very important
ionKOT: lol
ionKOT: input 5
ionKOT: ourput 320
ionKOT: how did it get 320
p.p.o.p.: haha definitely, but I'm guessing if they are asking for an integer H then it is not trying to match real world physics and is more like: Each bounce the ball loses x amount and you have to calculate the number of bounces for h to get to zero and add up each of those bounces
ionKOT: clash code a little to advance for me
MACKEYTH: How in blazes is Wontonimo getting 200k sims? I must be doing something terribly inefficient
ionKOT: where is the learning side
Wontonimo: hey MACKEYTH,
Wontonimo: that was just for 3x3 tic tac toe
MACKEYTH: Oh, whew. Less panicked now.
Wontonimo: for UTTT my bot does 90k to 120k
Wontonimo: it was a HUGE accomplishment when I passed 20k rollouts per turn. That's the generally agreed level you need to reach to beat the Gold bot
Wontonimo: how many sims can your bot do in 100ms?
MACKEYTH: I had to cut it off at 50ms to keep it from timing out.
Wontonimo: java right?
MACKEYTH: Yeah
Wontonimo: don't use the garbage collector
Wontonimo: so, don't let go of objects
Wontonimo: you have 700Mb or ram per game. you don't need to clean up RAM for the next game
MACKEYTH: IDK how to turn off Java garbage collection, if it can even be done.
Wontonimo: easy, don't let go of data
5922: keep an active reference
Wontonimo: pre-allocate and reuse lots of stuff
MACKEYTH: I have tried that, and it actually seems to make things worse
Wontonimo: for example, I have 1 board that is global the I reuse for every rollout. I don't allocate a new one ever
MACKEYTH: That's probably a time sink that I could tackle. I'm creating a new map for each possible move
Wontonimo: a java profiler will really help you identify where time is being used
Wontonimo: there are two "heuristics" that have been identified for UTTT. 1st - if you are the first to play the play in the very center
Wontonimo: 2nd - if you are first to play in a miniboard, play such that your opponent has to play in the same board.
ionKOT: what are these questions mannn
ionKOT: gott dam
Mishaaargh: ugh is there a round equiv for c++? ceil didn't work for me and including <cmath> didn't work
MACKEYTH: math.h, round
Mishaaargh: thank you i'll try that next time. so frustrating
MACKEYTH: Remember Google
Mishaaargh: thanks i tried that
Mishaaargh: and it told me to include cmath
Mishaaargh: in 2022 tellin people to google is pretty pointless
Automaton2000: ok i suck at them
