SquidXTV: can I set somewhere that when I enter a Clash of Code round, the code comments are automatically left out?
slazure: new record
slazure: 15 seconds per clash of code
MingoVanBurne: proof?
slazure: wdym
slazure: how do i send u proof
slazure: i got it
slazure: and whatever i say is true
slazure: :)
slazure: so you want me to send screenshot
MingoVanBurne: I believe you
MingoVanBurne: but when you complete a clash, you can click the share button and it will give you a link
slazure: ok
slazure: ill do it
slazure: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/report/2148294895879ff8a5e35e2e1923d2cdf5c7b5a
slazure: here, mingo
slazure: there u go
Hwan_Jo: I'm gonna king of algorithm
ASM_MOV_INT: :)
ASM_MOV_INT: chocolate time
Cube_6: emit etalocohc
Cube_6: :)
glyphi208: Hey lets sleep
glyphi208: hit the sack
Cube_6: nah
EsthiYU: was ist das?
Uljahn: Automaton2000: nani?
Automaton2000: i'm still in the game
cuongkashi: hello world
eggeggwe: hello world
Assasint: You are a mother f°*$ù%
briouyaasmae: hello
Urutar: Assasint: Maybe don't talk like that, it might get you a ban if you keep it up.
jacek: oO
jacek: huh, atari go 9x9 and atari go is exactly the same?
jacek: except the bigger size on later leagues
simpu: uh! Hi
jacek: ohai
jacek: first ~45 frames, is this ladder? oO https://www.codingame.com/replay/599902632
MSmits: think someone is trying to prove their masculinity through go :P
Astrobytes: hey MSmits, been a while dude, how are ya?
jacek: i think ill stop trolling this year
Astrobytes: *this* year
darkhorse64: ¨
darkhorse64: ^
DevOops: jacek: Yes, it's a ladder.
Astrobytes: Jacek's Ladder
eulerscheZahl: MSmits is online. hey, haven't seen you in a while :wave:
eulerscheZahl: hi to the rest as well of course
MSmits: hey guys
MSmits: yeah been busy with work, but have been working on meta mcts and stuff still. Just not been active on chat
MSmits: I've been upgrading some meta mcts programs with the optimistic/pessimistic bounds principle. It's quite good
MSmits: (ab pruning for mcts)
jacek: c4 solved yet?
Astrobytes: nice!
Astrobytes: and hi euler :)
DevOops: jacek: Yes, 7x6 connect4 is solved.
MSmits: no, I don't think it's feasible. I went over 100 million nodes now. It seems solved as a win for p1 as the values are only dropping for p2 for the last 50 million nodes or so, but i think the tree is too deep to be solved by mcts
MSmits: at least for my 2 billion node limit
MSmits: I get an issue when i get too deep in some branches
MSmits: all nodes give 100% wr and it doesnt know which to explore
MSmits: so it takes huge amounts of visits
MSmits: so it works as a meta mcts in terms of finding the best moves, but proving the win means it's gonna equally visit all those 100% win branches till one solves
MSmits: where 1 of them would suffice...
Astrobytes: (I've missed these sermons)
MSmits: minimax + ab would not have this issue
MSmits: thanks :)
eulerscheZahl: yes, you lost me again :)
eulerscheZahl: voting smits for mod
MSmits: minimax is DFS is what I meant, my mcts turns into a BFS because of the equal visits at 100% wr
Astrobytes: yeah, lets recommend him
MSmits: DFS solves faster as it's clearly a won branch
Astrobytes: well, it's the pruning that helps in that case
MSmits: not for mcts
aileth: hello guys im new here and i started c lang weeks ago just wondering do you guys know any where that i can learn more about c
Astrobytes: I meant for minimax DFS
MSmits: ah yeah, it does
MSmits: pes/opt bounds doesn't help there
MSmits: because they are only for solved values
eulerscheZahl: shouldn't mcts solver also handle this?
MSmits: only for solved nodes
MSmits: but it can only get to a solved node if it explores deep enough
DevOops: Where can I read about the max size for the source code?
MSmits: but it explores all nodes equally because of 100% wr
MSmits: so thats taking forever
eulerscheZahl: oh, you cut search before reaching the end?
eulerscheZahl: 100k chars is the max size
MSmits: meta mcts starts a game at a leaf
eulerscheZahl: i see, interesting
MSmits: so it keeps starting games that go deeper and deeper until one of those game solves on the first turn
MSmits: then the leaf is a solved node
MSmits: so it's a mcts solver that starts mcts solver games
jacek: youre not reusing some of the knowledge from the sims?
eulerscheZahl: my head starts hurting again, this vaccination has no chill :/
Astrobytes: oh damn, side effects again huh
MSmits: yeah i do, i put all the played moves from the "sim" game into the meta tree
MSmits: sucks eulerscheZahl, they last only a day for me, at least on 2nd dose
eulerscheZahl: but much better than yesterday already
MSmits: will get 3rd on friday next week
Astrobytes: oh that's good news
MSmits: booster side effects are worse?
MSmits: supposedly you make a lot more antibodies the third time
eulerscheZahl: same-ish
MSmits: i guess if the body works harder you might feel worse?
Astrobytes: I've got the invitation but need to make an appointment, last time I was there the queue was all the way outside the hospital, and halfway round the car park - mostly unmasked, no ditancing
Astrobytes: *distancing
eulerscheZahl: and i got moderna this time vs biontech, so not totally comparable
MSmits: kinda defeats the purpose Astrobytes
Astrobytes: Indeed.
MSmits: makes no sense either. These people aren't antivax idiots so you would expect them to mask up..
Astrobytes: hopefully will be less busy over the next few weeks
Astrobytes: Yeah, you'd have thought so
eulerscheZahl: some might be, getting harder to do what you want without vaccination
MSmits: hmm that's true
MSmits: it'll be hard to defend forcing people to vaccinate if it doesn't work for omicron and delta is gone
MSmits: let's hope it works at least somewhat
Astrobytes: Yeah. I mean I get the whole civil liberties thing, but people are dying...
Astrobytes: True
eulerscheZahl: https://netherlandsnewslive.com/man-behind-jaikwilcorona-arrested-website-taken-offline-inland-3/306833/
MSmits: yep idiots in every country :P
Astrobytes: what's that weird ikwilhakke word
MSmits: jaikwilcorona translates to yesiwantcorona
Astrobytes: Interesting
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: omicron is sweet. like a very mild cold
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: never slept better in my life
MSmits: it is for you, try not to draw conclusions based on a dataset of 1
MSmits: thats why scientists are so careful saying anythign definitive on omicron even though they have thousands of datapoints
MSmits: beats your 1
Astrobytes: ^
eulerscheZahl: i realized that i can mostly understand dutch, at least in writing
MSmits: same for me with German, it's close enough
Astrobytes: I can only say ik wil hakke
eulerscheZahl: ich will haben
MSmits: if you mean ik wil hak, that's a vegetable brand
MSmits: not sure what you mean by hakke
jacek: yeah MSmits, its like concluding that p1 wins after 1 simulation
MSmits: solved it!
ninjadip: hello fellow coders
MSmits: :P
Astrobytes: no no, I want to chop, might be ik wil hakken
MSmits: yes thats correct
MSmits: hi ninjadip
MSmits: why do you want to chop?
Astrobytes: Old gabber record from the 90s, became a meme within the scene
ninjadip: how do u send those red messages?
MSmits: ohh hakken, i get it now
MSmits: like this ninjadip
MSmits: it goes red when your name is in it :)
ninjadip: ohhhhh
ninjadip: automatic
MSmits: yes
MSmits: also easy to type someones name if you finish with tab
ninjadip: sweeet, it's all coming together
MSmits: ms+tab and you have my name
MSmits: (probably)
ninjadip: cool again, ty
ninjadip: it came up MSAnderson
MSmits: ah yes, thats why i said probably :)
MSmits: reminds me of the matrix
jacek: btw MSmits some online mnist based on cnn suffers from my 0 too https://i.imgur.com/ZWXg5Vv.png
MSmits: haha
MSmits: thats great
jacek: probably because the circle is the upper half and it expects that line below
ninjadip: so are there like the same ten people that will be in my world chat everytime
MSmits: i tested it a lot at my school btw, it did very well
MSmits: Astrobytes did you try my mnist thingy?
Astrobytes: I don't believe I am aware of it
MSmits: https://trinket.io/python/c2d8e7cce8?outputOnly=true
MSmits: drag the dot
MSmits: and use space bar
Astrobytes: 3 == 7 :tada:
MSmits: I trained it locally on mnist data and then put it into a trinket, everythign is drawn with python turtle
ninjadip: oh that's cool!
MSmits: damn it always does 3's for me
MSmits: https://imgur.com/a/AW1koiP
MSmits: I think i trained myself to draw in a way it always guesses correctly :P
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Wont was complaining his 0's kept coming out as 3 or 9
Astrobytes: I deliberately made it a wonky 3, still a 3 though
ZarthaxX: that thing is missing a bit too much MSmits :sweat:
MSmits: yeah it does for some people
MSmits: not sure why
MSmits: could be because they are not handdrawn
Astrobytes: 3 == 5, getting closer!
ZarthaxX: :rofl:
MSmits: lol thats not how closer works :P
MSmits: draw a 2
MSmits: 2 never failed for me anyways
ZarthaxX: happy new year everyone whenever it happens in your country
ZarthaxX: lets try 2 then
MSmits: thanks ZarthaxX you too
Astrobytes: and you ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: it worked! :O
MSmits: yay
ZarthaxX: you teaching NNs to kids now?
MSmits: btw, locally it has 97% accuracy
MSmits: on the data + test
ZarthaxX: wow nice
MSmits: yeah so it is not bad, but it is made a lot worse when combined with the drawing process
MSmits: it's not easy to turn a pixel drawn image into correct input
ZarthaxX: right
ZarthaxX: good point
MSmits: btw, not exactly teaching them NN, just the general principles
ZarthaxX: it's still a lot
ZarthaxX: are they getting the concepts?
Astrobytes: Er...
https://imgur.com/a/VHb5BIU
MSmits: some are, i only did it 1 time and i didnt include mnist then
ZarthaxX: lol
ZarthaxX: ah okie
MSmits: it's too small
ZarthaxX: btw MSmits do you know graphviz?
Astrobytes: that's what she said
MSmits: thats the problem with drawing on the screen, you have too much room
ZarthaxX: lmao
MSmits: lol
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: 3% problem
MSmits: let me check graphviz, maybe
ZarthaxX: https://graphviz.org/doc/info/lang.html
ZarthaxX: found it while reading some MCTS papers
MSmits: i think someone may have suggested it to me, could have been you
MSmits: so it makes graphs from text?
ZarthaxX: mhmm i recommended another one
ZarthaxX: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.674.6547&rep=rep1&type=pdf
ZarthaxX: yeah look at that paper
ZarthaxX: the graphs in there were generated by it
ZarthaxX: it's just for visualizing how the tree lkooks roughly
ZarthaxX: not really detailed
MSmits: ohh it has an oware board
ZarthaxX: well, that's what i think
ZarthaxX: ah yeah mancala
ZarthaxX: seems like oware
MSmits: cool stuff
MSmits: yeah oware is a mancala type game
Astrobytes: Is it just me?
https://imgur.com/a/JFMcr3r
MSmits: too large
ZarthaxX: your 2s are ugly astro
MSmits: you're drawing on the edge
MSmits: none of the training examples had 2's on the edge i guess
Astrobytes: FFS it doesn't exactly come with a manual
MSmits: :grin:
Astrobytes: "Please ensure your 2 matches something from the training dataset"
Astrobytes: :rofl:
MSmits: yes thats how nn's work dont they :P
ZarthaxX: you should already know how it works smartrobyto
ZarthaxX: smastrobyto*
ZarthaxX: that sounds cooler
Astrobytes: hahaha
ZarthaxX: missed to come up with names of u astro
MSmits: https://imgur.com/a/bz9N5qq
MSmits: first one i just tried
ZarthaxX: nice
ZarthaxX: he cheated! he is the dev
MSmits: i really do think i trained myself to make it work
MSmits: they are almost always correct when i do it
ZarthaxX: thats good, you can do an online demonstration and everyone will believe it works
Astrobytes: I got 2 = 8... not touching the edges
traagel: here's a mask for you : 255.255.255.254
MSmits: exactly ZarthaxX :)
**eulerscheZahl knows graphviz
Astrobytes: FINALLY
jacek: mancala eh
jacek: and i think struct knows graphviz
Astrobytes: It seems you have to draw it at almost exactly the font size of the output...
MSmits: yeah thats the trick i think
ZarthaxX: hey toad
MSmits: this is because you're much more constricted in terms of size when doing the handdrawings
ZarthaxX: have you used that thing?
Astrobytes: hmph, now it thinks my 8 is a 3
Astrobytes: Good effort though :D
MSmits: also lines could be more shaky when using the dot
jacek: "However, as we will
demonstrate, when a board evaluation heuristic is available,
it is much better to propagate information backwards using
a Minimax style update rule"
jacek: so... jacekmax?
MSmits: compared to handdrawing
ZarthaxX: i think so jacek
ZarthaxX: you have the equation of the minimax update there
MSmits: thanks Astrobytes, the hard part was for sure not the NN, just getting the drawing right and converting pixel coordinates to 28x28 input
MSmits: i needed to use a ton of math to interpolate when a user draws fast, you get a dotted image instead of a line otherwise
Astrobytes: interesting
Astrobytes: Also: https://imgur.com/a/LN0NXde
MSmits: well at least it think's there's a bit of a 8 in there :P
Astrobytes: :rofl:
MSmits: btw, if you look closely at the image you drew you'll see its 28x28 squares
eulerscheZahl: suggestion to improve detection rate: instead of making us draw, we should be able to select among 10 predefined pictures
MSmits: there\s actually a turtle drawing 784 squares with varying colors
MSmits: 8 bit greyscale
MSmits: thats what mnist nn needs
MSmits: so your drawing is black but the result is greyscale
MSmits: eulerscheZahl lol
Astrobytes: yes, it's somewhat clear from viewing the output that it's greyscale... :P
Astrobytes: euler :rofl:
MSmits: ah yes but it goes from 1 bit to 255 bit
MSmits: err 8 bit
MSmits: 1 to 8
MSmits: so it kinda does some distance calculation from where your dot has been and the center of each square to determine the color
deeznutz1: guys can you help me with the thor code i dont know how to put the xy
Astrobytes: MSmits: gotcha
MSmits: what do you mean put the xy deeznutz1
MSmits: (I have a feeling he was just trying to get me to say his name)
Astrobytes: yeah, the average age in here these days seems to be about 9
eulerscheZahl: another reason why i wasn't too keep on further playing the mod
eulerscheZahl: keen*
Astrobytes: same
MSmits: I would not mind being mod btw, but I am not going to sit around all day watching chat. Just for times I am around to do something about it
eulerscheZahl: i never watched the chat just to prevent spamming
MSmits: ahh ok
Astrobytes: lol, I don't think any of us ever sat around all day watching chat, better to watch paint drying
MSmits: so both of you stopped being mod?:
MSmits: who is still mod then?/
eulerscheZahl: ille and neumann too
Astrobytes: plus Neuman n and Ille
Astrobytes: damn you :D
MSmits: but there needs to be some mods though?
Uljahn: sure
Astrobytes: yes, there are still plenty
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/40701/help-center/moderation
Astrobytes: for now...
eulerscheZahl: half of them are mostly inactive
MSmits: did anything specific happen that set of a mod-exodus?
Astrobytes: and 5DN1 L is a new addition
MSmits: sounds like a virus
orchidperson:
jacek: "Moderators have the trust of CodinGame's staff but we reserve ourselves the rights to revoke a moderator rights should any abuse occur"
orchidperson: ds
eulerscheZahl: thibaud suggested that we shoud quit if we are only on cg because of bot contests
jacek: :thinking:
orchidperson: fdf
Astrobytes: (that's the condensed version at least)
MSmits: quit being mod or quit completely?
Astrobytes: mod
MSmits: oh
MSmits: well you're not here just for bot contests, they were just very important
MSmits: to you anyway euler, slightly less so for astro i think
eulerscheZahl: to be fair i started the discussion by mentioning that i intend to quit if the next contest should be another escape
eulerscheZahl: stated
MSmits: ah ok
eulerscheZahl: no, started was correct
eulerscheZahl: still tired
Astrobytes: :)
ZarthaxX: you will quit cg?
Astrobytes: Nooo
ZarthaxX: ah
Astrobytes: We quit as mods
ZarthaxX: yes i saw that
ZarthaxX: the pay was not enough? :D
Astrobytes: lol
eulerscheZahl: but i got more into topcoder recently
Astrobytes: you can't get rid of us completely
eulerscheZahl: and other marathon contests like codeforces
ZarthaxX: oh no he is gonna beat tourist
MSmits: He already did
Astrobytes: that last game was fun, at least I know the format now
ZarthaxX: so ACM-ICPC like contests or optimization ones?=
MSmits: euler scored higher on the cooking contest :p
ZarthaxX: MSmits wait what
ZarthaxX: ah lol
Astrobytes: optim
ZarthaxX: makes sense then
Astrobytes: (only ones I'm interested in at least)
ZarthaxX: +1 to that
MSmits: you only like optims Astrobytes?
MSmits: I like them ok, but they're not my favorites
ZarthaxX: toad i need to find a thesis theme D:
ZarthaxX: it's gonna be hard
MSmits: a subject?
ZarthaxX: topic*
Astrobytes: no, in the context of topcoder-style contests
ZarthaxX: yeah sorry lol
MSmits: oh ok, because a theme would be like christmas, or summer :P
ZarthaxX: or i can just search for current offers
ZarthaxX: yeah i just translated wrongly from spanish
MSmits: got it
MSmits: i do it all the time from Dutch, but only Astrobytes notices
Astrobytes: :grin:
eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/YymAKif
MSmits: cuz he's a native
ZarthaxX: i wonder if some AI thing could be done as a thesis subject but well
ZarthaxX: what's that haha
MSmits: christmas themed thesis
Astrobytes: that was the topcoder optim
Astrobytes: Stop the Elves
ZarthaxX: MSmits hahaha
ZarthaxX: oh nice
MSmits: wait, did they provide this visualization or did eulerscheZahl get creative again?
Astrobytes: no it came with a viewer
ZarthaxX: i would go for the second
ZarthaxX: oh
MSmits: just seems like something euler would do
Astrobytes: flawed but useable
eulerscheZahl: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903337608606789755/921811360722087946/lvl2.png
MSmits: whats that
Astrobytes: ^ euler's local visualisation
eulerscheZahl: i added those small boxes it visualize my plan
MSmits: aha
eulerscheZahl: but topcoder has some nice visuals too, at least sometimes
MSmits: oh i am confused with codeforces
MSmits: they are lazy on the visuals i think
eulerscheZahl: the idea is to protect the presents against fraudulent elves
eulerscheZahl: as many of them as you can at least
MSmits: makes sense
MSmits: those are the worst kind of elves
eulerscheZahl: then circle shows some presents surrounded by as few boxes as possible
Astrobytes: elf fraud is a big thing nowadays
jacek: and troll
eulerscheZahl: used max flow min cut theorem
MSmits: nice, i am not that knowledgable about graph stuff, apart from decision trees
Astrobytes: with very readable source code too, it was like reading a manual or something
eulerscheZahl: you really read that thing?
MSmits: some people read manuals
MSmits: weird i know
eulerscheZahl: i shared my code on a private discord after the event
Astrobytes: Sure, always interesting to look at (non-CP-style) code from others
MSmits: ohh it was your code that's the manual?
Astrobytes: I mean it was technical but easy to read
eulerscheZahl: found a stream is the last tco finals. psyho was coding in notepad++
MSmits: euler is a pro
eulerscheZahl: is->of
MSmits: notepad++ is not good?
Astrobytes: at least it wasn't just notepad
MSmits: I mean VS trumps all anyways
BlaiseEbuth: Pwet here
eulerscheZahl: i was expecting more of an IDE
MSmits: maybe because it's not an IDE it's faster?
eulerscheZahl: vs, vs code, clion, ...
even codeblocks
MSmits: i tried codeblocks, horrified me
eulerscheZahl: same
MSmits: i am spoiled by vs
Astrobytes: yeah, never got on with that
Astrobytes: and yep, VS is so nice and comfortable
MSmits: vs code was ok, but i screw up on the packages and such
BlaiseEbuth: codeblock... Remind me school TD...
eulerscheZahl: i mostly use vs code on my personal pc these days
MSmits: not those blocks :)
MSmits: btw i will be working with microbit soon
MSmits: have to practice with it
MSmits: students will do some physical computing stuff
Astrobytes: I use vscode for anything that isn't C++/C#/C
eulerscheZahl: they are so small that you can fit more of them in your opening book
MSmits: python too?
Astrobytes: microbit?
BlaiseEbuth: I use vscode for everything now...
Astrobytes: Yeah MSmits
MSmits: https://microbit.org/
MSmits: i use pycharm i think
MSmits: but only for nn stuff
Astrobytes: gotcha, nice! Have you tried it out yet?
Astrobytes: Yeah, I only write little things in python mostly so vscode is fine for now
MSmits: nope, it's been sitting in a drawer while i grade 40 websites. 14 more to go and the microbit is last on my list
BlaiseEbuth: I prefer having a unique tool. Same UI for all.
Astrobytes: good for workflow I guess
MSmits: makes sense BlaiseEbuth but I dont think VS is that good for python
Uljahn: anaconda + vscode is a nice combo
BlaiseEbuth: I don't really use python though...
MSmits: oh i have anaconda for all that TF crap
eulerscheZahl: isn't anaconda a commercial product?
MSmits: there's free versions
Astrobytes: ^
Astrobytes: I used jupyter once . . .
BlaiseEbuth: And packages allows you to really improve your experience, whatever the language.
MSmits: people seem to like jupyter for nn stuff
MSmits: i run into it a lot
Astrobytes: Yeah, I just don't like the workflow, I find it clunky
MSmits: same
MSmits: probably it just takes getting used to
BlaiseEbuth: That's the only MS product I'll ever say good things about. :p
Astrobytes: hehehe
BlaiseEbuth: WDYM by workflow?
MSmits: wait jupyter is MS?
Astrobytes: No, he means VSCode
BlaiseEbuth: ^
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: have you heard about VS Codium?
MSmits: i always used to open the referees for contests in VS code
MSmits: nope euler
Astrobytes: workflow as in how easy/efficient/comfortable it is to accomplish common tasks
eulerscheZahl: it's like chrome vs chromium
MSmits: Astrobytes means to keep going without getting stuck on stuff that shouldn not be a problem
Astrobytes: community-built?
BlaiseEbuth: Oh. Well at start I wasn't comfortable, but you get used to.
BlaiseEbuth: I looked into it eulerscheZahl, but not convinced.
MSmits: doesnt normal vs code already have a ton of community input?
MSmits: with all the packages and such?
eulerscheZahl: it's just disabling the telemetry
MSmits: telemetry?
Astrobytes: sending data back home to MS
MSmits: it does that in a mandatory fashion?
MSmits: cant you turn that off?
BlaiseEbuth: Not totally.
MSmits: hmm ok
Astrobytes: it IS MS we speak about
MSmits: true
eulerscheZahl: still some telemetry left in .net itself iirc
MSmits: MS pisses me off a lot
MSmits: it used to be you could have windows and not be forced into an update
eulerscheZahl: they got better
BlaiseEbuth: And since the telemetry is added by ms at compile time, they just build their version from the official repo.
eulerscheZahl: as long as you don't use windows
MSmits: :)
eulerscheZahl: i still hate windows, but other products like vs code or .net framework a fine with me
MSmits: I like windows when it's not forcing me to update
BlaiseEbuth: But they also change the packages repo, and I'm not really confident in it...
Astrobytes: I think I'll use my linux box for the next topcoder marathon tbh
MSmits: what is perceived as the main problem with windows btw?
eulerscheZahl: it's inefficient to use
MSmits: system resources?
eulerscheZahl: do you know i3wm? takes time to learn but so much faster
eulerscheZahl: no windows hiding behind each other so that you have to find them again
MSmits: ok so you mean efficient in terms of workflow?
Astrobytes: the tiling tool?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: to both
Astrobytes: yeah I know it
MSmits: ah ok, it's pretty efficient for me, i was more worried about system resources tbh
eulerscheZahl: there is bug.n for windows. but it felt laggy to me
BlaiseEbuth: And also too blackbox-ish.
Astrobytes: I tried it out yeah, not very good on windows
BlaiseEbuth: When is the next topcoder marathon ?
eulerscheZahl: mid january
eulerscheZahl: 12.01 Wed 19:00: MM 132
09.02 Wed 19:00: MM 133
16.03 Wed 18:00: MM 134
eulerscheZahl: 7 days duration each
Astrobytes: is there a date for RAIC yet btw?
eulerscheZahl: unknown to me
BlaiseEbuth: Ok. Never tried a topcoder one. What kind of subject is it?
eulerscheZahl: optim problem
eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/YymAKif
eulerscheZahl: protect the gifts from randomly spawning elves
BlaiseEbuth: Oh great. It's been a long time since I've made one.
eulerscheZahl: they get pretty creative with their tasks sometimes
Astrobytes: that was my first TC marathon
MSmits: randomly spawning?
MSmits: seems weird for an optim
MSmits: usually not much random
eulerscheZahl: https://twitter.com/wleite/status/1440736696463597582
Astrobytes: with a certain probability per map
eulerscheZahl: for topcoder random is normal. but 2000 testcases for a final rerun
MSmits: wait so the presents are chickens now?
eulerscheZahl: other optim contest
eulerscheZahl: catch the chickens
MSmits: I see
BlaiseEbuth: February for RAIC iirc.
eulerscheZahl: https://twitter.com/wleite/status/1357684154981355520 candy crush
Astrobytes: and there are postmortems too, often with code, just don't try to read that code, far too traumatic
MSmits: yeah the problem with CG post mortems is that people dont give code because of it becoming a multi
eulerscheZahl: if they don't forget about it, topcoder makes all submissions public after the event
MSmits: it's nice for learning purposes
Astrobytes: MSmits: this isn't :rofl:
https://github.com/FakePsyho/cpcontests/blob/master/topcoder/mm131/StopTheElves.cpp
BlaiseEbuth: VVPII :thinking:
MSmits: no, you need someone to go through the submissions from rank 1 down and find a few that are readable and share a list :)
MSmits: would be fun if euler's is the first on that list
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/FakePsyho/cpcontests/blob/master/topcoder/mm131/StopTheElves.cpp...
damn you Astrobytes
Astrobytes: :D
Astrobytes: heading to the shops, afk for a bit
MSmits: cya Astrobytes
jacek: :upside_down:
BlaiseEbuth: (╯°□°)╯︵ :)
jacek: we're leaving together
eulerscheZahl: astro killed the chat
ninjadip: what cat
eulerscheZahl: the cat with an h in it
jacek: Automaton2000 want something to say?
Automaton2000: i mean a lot of room to improve
jacek: Automaton2000 where is AutomatonNN? :(
Automaton2000: i'll find a way to use a nn to find the shortest path
jacek: Automaton2000 yes. find him
Automaton2000: i guess this is what happens
Astrobytes: Jeez, what a boring bunch :D
jacek: oO
MSmits: it's just boring without you Astrobytes
MSmits: I can't do sermons when you aren't here, people see cats where there aren't any and as a last resort, they turn to the chat bots
NlcknameAlreadyTaken: :pouting_cat:
Astrobytes: hahaha, brilliant
struct: hi
Astrobytes: hey struct :)
eulerscheZahl: our mod spy, let us know if anything interesting is about to happen
Astrobytes: heh heh
struct: lol
Astrobytes: speaking of CG, where's Julien these days? Didn't see him on discord for what seems like forever
eulerscheZahl: maybe he got bored and left the discord server too
Astrobytes: :D
eulerscheZahl: btw do you still see me as the author of my old messages or just some deleted user?
eulerscheZahl: didn't even take a full day after me leaving that i got a private message related to CG SDK :D
Astrobytes: still as you
Astrobytes: As if you were still a member that is
eulerscheZahl: i was nice enough to reply that i have no idea about the quirks of the latest version with the pixi update
eulerscheZahl: seems that new entities aren't placed on top anymore but random if you don't assign a zIndex
Astrobytes: yes I saw that recently
Astrobytes: At least that channel still makes some degree of sense
eulerscheZahl: could actually be circumvented with the SDK. just set zIndex to big factor * user-assigned z + entity ID
Astrobytes: I'm sure someone will figure that out eventually :P
eulerscheZahl: i think it would be a simple-enough change to the SDK to get back old behaviour
eulerscheZahl: and spellcheck always makes me realize that i'm inconsistent
eulerscheZahl: i write color, neighbor but behaviour
Astrobytes: and realize instead of realise
eulerscheZahl: :D
eulerscheZahl: not what my english teachers tried to teach me
struct: isn't color also correct?
Astrobytes: realise is the UK spelling, same with adding a 'u' to the aforementioned
Astrobytes: depends if you follow American or British English conventions
struct: I follow subtitles
Astrobytes: :D
traagel: Do not try and bend the spoon—that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
eulerscheZahl: uri geller would disagree
Astrobytes: hah! Uri Geller :rofl:
Astrobytes: last time I heard of him he was telepathically trying to prevent the UK PM from leaving the EU
eulerscheZahl: ah, successful as always
Astrobytes: He never fails :D
eulerscheZahl: there was an evening show on german television once (2-3h duration) where he tried to get in contact with aliens
Astrobytes: hahaha!
eulerscheZahl: didn't watch it myself but read later that he failed and it was a boring evening
eulerscheZahl: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Geller_Live:_Ufos_und_Aliens_%E2%80%93_Das_unglaubliche_TV-Experiment
Astrobytes: It would have been highly amusing if he succeeded tbh, Uri Geller - Intergalactic Ambassador of Earth
Astrobytes: 'Under hypnosis, Geller claimed he was sent to Earth by extraterrestrials from a spaceship 53,000 light years away.[36][37] Geller later denied the space fantasy claims, but affirmed there "is a slight possibility that some of my energies do have extraterrestrial connection."' :rofl:
jacek: nyoro~n
Astrobytes: (from EN wikipedia)
eulerscheZahl: 53000, i didn't know that he is that old :o
jacek: people mixing years and light years :unamused:
jacek: where are the physics teachers when you need one
eulerscheZahl: at least that contradicts the Bible according to which the earth is 5000 years old. so at least he doesn't believe in that, it's something
eulerscheZahl: light year = takes light a year to travel that distance
Astrobytes: Finally, credibility for Uri Geller
eulerscheZahl: so even if the space ship is super fast, it is in fact 53000 years
jacek: something something time dilation
Astrobytes: I bet his ship travelled at warp-factor Geller
jacek: but also wormholes or other space-time bending
Astrobytes: And ofc his ship was shaped like a spoon.
jacek: https://preview.redd.it/mife10tcm7701.gif?format=mp4&s=911433a07c3398dbbbe65f218b971c1bedccdb69
eulerscheZahl: oh right, it's new year's eve. completely forgot
Astrobytes: I didn't... the shops were a nightmare
eulerscheZahl: so far it's quiet in my neighborhood
eulerscheZahl: no explosions
jacek: no money to burn
eulerscheZahl: sales of fireworks are forbidden for the 2nd year in a row
eulerscheZahl: usage as well but obviously people don't care
Astrobytes: It'll be like a warzone here by 10pm. And they'll let off fireworks too :P
MSmits: hey, you're talking physics without me
eulerscheZahl: *boom*
never mind my last statement
MSmits: any unresolved physics issues ?
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: why are fireworks sales forbidden this year?
Uljahn: Automaton2000: time is a social construct
Automaton2000: but i had to turn it on
eulerscheZahl: no, i acknowledge defeat to jacek
Astrobytes: jacek wanted explanations about time dilation and wormholes
eulerscheZahl: because of the pandemic
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: oh brother
MSmits: oh ok specifically if there is time dilation near a wormhole?
Astrobytes: and space-time distortions
Astrobytes: *and other
MSmits: oh btw, I am actually unsure if anything ever fell into a black hole because of time dilation
eulerscheZahl: * reduce odds of larger group gatherings
- prevent accidents with already full hospitals
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: you can always do that Godel closed timelike curve thing
MSmits: they always talk about stuff going into black holes, but it takes an infinite amount of time, as seen from an outside observer
eulerscheZahl: personally i'm just happy when it remains silent. i want to sleep at night and my cat easily panics
MSmits: which means from our perspective, nothing has ever fallen in
jacek: no spaghettization?
MSmits: oh yes that still happens, it just takes a long time
MSmits: but stuff doesnt actually go over the event horizon
MSmits: it just gets nearer
MSmits: forever
MSmits: asymptotically
Astrobytes: that's even worse than ending up in it
MSmits: kinda yeah, also i have to add that from the person falling into's perspective, he just falls in normally
MSmits: it's just while he is falling in, the entire universe ends
eulerscheZahl: i really recommend Futurama to you MSmits. have you watched it already?
MSmits: because an infintie amount of time will pass from the universe's perspectiv
MSmits: nope, you have recommended it before though
eulerscheZahl: and i'll do it again
MSmits: i might if it shows up on a streaming service
eulerscheZahl: it also contains a hypnotoad
MSmits: like netflix or prime or disney
Astrobytes: Futurama is awesome, you'll like it MSmits
MSmits: I'm convinced
eulerscheZahl: and lots of jokes that you only get if you pause the video
MSmits: because they take a bit of time?
MSmits: sounds like easter eggs
eulerscheZahl: https://www.simonsingh.net/Simpsons_Mathematics/simpsorama/
eulerscheZahl: most of the Futurama authors even have a degree in maths or physics before they switched to comedy
MSmits: nice
MSmits: has the TSP in there :)
jacek: i think there was some proof made for episode
Astrobytes: small details/jokes embedded in Simpsons and Futurama since the dawn of each series
MSmits: I could never get into simpsons
jacek: https://theinfosphere.org/Futurama_theorem
Astrobytes: *visual jokes
jacek: that reminds me of stargate episode when they switched bodies
MSmits: ah yeah
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: do other countries make funny cartoons we never hear about in the US?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: that cartoon about the penis man
MSmits: someone has the link?
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I mean like a series...
MSmits: it's actually for kids
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: that's what i mean
Astrobytes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3sGocnMP3A
jacek: funny cartoons not made by us?
Astrobytes: John Dillermand
eulerscheZahl: there was a simpsons episode where Apu said the 20000th digit of pi as proof of his memory. one simpson author asked a friend at NASA to use their super computer and compute it so it's correct
MSmits: haha yes thats it
Astrobytes: Danish cartoon to teach kids good values
jacek: 20000th digit pi is not much, even in 1990
MSmits: maybe too much for a private cpu
MSmits: yeah i think so, i was 9 then
MSmits: if i remember what our first pc was like... years later
jacek: " And on the witness stand, he reveals he knows the number pi to 400,000 digits. "The last number is one," he says."
eulerscheZahl: oh, 400k my bad
jacek: where did euler get 20000 from :thinking:
MSmits: same order of magnitude :P
jacek: 20k vs 400k?
MSmits: well almost
struct: the last number of the 400k is 1?
MSmits: whats another factor of 20 :P
Astrobytes: lol
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: hey, I have the perfect contrib for that
MSmits: for john dillermand?
jacek: if it were that easy, you should jump straight from 7x6 to 9x7 by now
eulerscheZahl: i saw a paper by Hoare about quicksort efficiency once. he compared with merge sort and estimated the runtime for 5k values as he didn't have enough RAM
Pisik: hi
MSmits: eh no, 7x6 times 20 is not 9x7, try times 20,000
MSmits: or so
MSmits: 7x6 takes me an hour or less
MSmits: I have months of calc time into 9x7
eulerscheZahl: i really admire your passion
MSmits: :)
jacek: and you havent started solving nine men morris?
eulerscheZahl: topcoder is great for me: 1 week and then it's over
MSmits: i havent finished writing the code jacek, but i have the index function of 9mm, so the hardest part is done
MSmits: as soon as i get bored with oware again, 9mm gets finished
MSmits: still going to make a nn for that
MSmits: (both of those)
jacek: :sleeping:
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: You guys need to help the new mods, they are afraid to ban and the 13yos are running all over them
MSmits: i dont know if they will be any good, it will depend on how nn trained on solved values compare with the azero method
Astrobytes: :innocent:
Astrobytes: Not my problem any more :D
MSmits: it's not just a problem, it's also a solution
MSmits: having mod powers means you can get rid of annoyances
MSmits: well... some of them
Astrobytes: I don't get annoyed, I just chuckle about it
MSmits: hmm ok, some people really get annoyed
MSmits: I think it's annoying when they disrupt a conversation, otherwise it doesnt bother me
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I always thought there was just one 13yo who kept respawning, but I guess there are a bunch of them
Astrobytes: The webchat has been hysterically bad the past few weeks. And the discord...
MSmits: how was the discord?
jacek: discord, as the name implies...
MSmits: I see
Astrobytes: Spammy kids everywhere talking nonsense
eulerscheZahl: i've already left discord as it annoyed me too much
MSmits: i thought discord had more activity than this webchat
eulerscheZahl: was always low on activity
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: then they added even more channels to it
MSmits: yeah, but thats a problem for any discord i've been on, always too many channels
eulerscheZahl: when you have more channels than active users, something is wrong
Astrobytes: there's been a significant degradation in quality of conversation the past few weeks
MSmits: until today
eulerscheZahl: share that christmas poem
Astrobytes: lol
MSmits: who wrote a poem?/
eulerscheZahl: some newbie user
MSmits: is it any good?
eulerscheZahl: it's a prime example of degrading quality
BlaiseEbuth: Share it.
MSmits: i see, so earlier poems were better?
eulerscheZahl: i think it's the first of that kind
eulerscheZahl: i left so i dont have access
MSmits: ok so we're talking about a pioneer ?
Astrobytes: https://imgur.com/a/M54y02a
MSmits: seems like rap lyrics
BlaiseEbuth: Bot poem
Astrobytes: that's in the main codingame channel, not even the talk about anything one
MSmits: i cant judge the quality of those, they're all equally crap to me :p\
Astrobytes: anyway, afk, cooking
MSmits: ah, years since i last cooked anything
eulerscheZahl: afk eating see you
jacek: oO
MSmits: see because i dont need to cook to get sustenance, i can do more sermons jacek
jacek: sure, why not
jacek: if this keeps you alive
MSmits: yep
MSmits: normally i eat some stuff in addition to the nutrition shakes, but trying to lose a little weight, so these last 2 weeks it's been just the shakes
MSmits: 2k calories is a little low, so it works
jacek: use intermittent fasting [solved]
MSmits: nah, no need, just not buying a bag of popcorn every other day is simple enough
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: when the smallpox hits this year we'll all lose weight
MSmits: i think you mistake us for an anti-vaxx bubble :P
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: huh? smallpox vax works really well
MSmits: yeah, so we wont lose weight :)
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: if you can get it, sure
MSmits: ohh right this is one of those vaccines people dont get automatically
MSmits: i forget which diseases are included
Husoski: Is anyone still vaxxing for smallpox? I was 'cause I'm that old, but I don't think my kids were. It's too long gone.
MSmits: yeah apparently it is
MSmits: too long gone
MSmits: polio and measles still do though
jacek: anither extinct species :(
MSmits: i think more new viruses are made than go extinct :P
MSmits: animals natural habitats reduce
Husoski: So was anthrax, except that military labs kept it for bio-weaponry...makes one wonder
MSmits: virus natural habitats increase
MSmits: I'm sure lots of stuff gets kept in labs and are made. You just dont need labs to make deadly viruses. They happen naturally
MSmits: it's weird how some people are more quick to assume a new virus comes from a lab than from a natural origin, even though the natural way happens extremely often
MSmits: The whole world is one massive lab
MSmits: can't compete with that
Husoski: I was wondering if smallpox was still in a lab somewhere, not speculating about SARS-COV-2
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: The FDA approved a new smallpox vaccine last year, specifically in case bad guys pull it out of a lab. Tembexa
Husoski: Interesting. Sure sound like USA has it on hand then, and suspects that someone else might too?
Astrobytes: I preferred the days when hallucinogenic substances used to escape from labs...
Husoski: I remember those...or at least I think they're memories?
Astrobytes: heh heh
eulerscheZahl: looks like i'm late to the party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-U3K1sw9U
MSmits: I wonder if I've seen that one before
MSmits: I don't remember why you don't kiss pigs
MSmits: watched the first 5 mins. I think i did see this one before
Astrobytes: gotta love John Oliver
MSmits: yeah
eulerscheZahl: i do, he always does those funny things just to annoy others. like the giant cake which was refused by the Guinness book, the rabbit book or the musical of insults
Astrobytes: lol, right :D
MSmits: didnt he make a giant train thing for some town?
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOt-lUUn3s4
eulerscheZahl: oh, that must have been before i started watching him
Astrobytes: hehehe awesome :D
eulerscheZahl: great one
eulerscheZahl: the world's largest model train track is in hamburg, germany btw
eulerscheZahl: the Wunderland
Astrobytes: yeah I've seen that
Astrobytes: some dedication put into that
eulerscheZahl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6co_r1PfU
Astrobytes: oh wow
Astrobytes: it's had an upgrade
eulerscheZahl: they connected the neighboring building with a bridge as they ran out of space
Astrobytes: incredible job on the Brazilian section
Astrobytes: will they keep expanding? I hope so
eulerscheZahl: video says that they will open new regions in 2022 and also have plans for the time after
eulerscheZahl: took them 20 years to fill the first building, now they just started in the 2nd
eulerscheZahl: with around 300 employees alread
eulerscheZahl: y
eulerscheZahl: my parents have seen it in person, were really impressed
Astrobytes: Hm, I didn't catch that part. That's awesome. It's incredibly good and far bigger than the last time I saw it (not in person sadly).
eulerscheZahl: currently they want realistic formula 1 races with overtaking and such. their old street design won't work there, so they designed their own chips to create magnetic fields for steering
Astrobytes: Haha! Now that's dedication, I like that
eulerscheZahl: enough chatting for today. i blame the vaccine for being tired even sooner than usual ;)
Astrobytes: Hehehe, see you later man, have a nice rest
eulerscheZahl: and cat tells me to go to bed as well
Astrobytes: :D
jacek: so you go to bed now :older_man:
eulerscheZahl: not before doing:
**eulerscheZahl slaps jacek around a bit with a large fishbot
Astrobytes: hahaha
derjack: :rage: https://www.codingame.com/replay/599958207
jacek: ecuador!
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: earthquake?
jacek: princess luna is best pony ~
glyphi208: who is luna
jacek: a best pony
booleancub3: hello bois
booleancub3: happy new years eve
booleancub3: its about to be new years
ninjadip: in eight hours here
Blokops: 10 here
traagel: 40 minutes
traagel: to 2022 new set of disasters
Blokops: is all a steady decline uphill
Ruskin: Was NYE nearly 10 hours ago here
Astrobytes: happy new year Ruskin
Ruskin: You too Astrobytes!
jacek: happy Caturday then
Astrobytes: indeed :cat:
Astrobytes: not for another 2 hours here though
Astrobytes: aren't you only 1 hour ahead jacek?
Astrobytes: (of UK I mean)
bool3: the start of the year is a saturdy
bool3: thats a good sign
DropThePress: 7.5 hours away in California
DropThePress: Oops, 9.5 hours ^^
zakacat: We got the same time zone here on Vancouver Island
zakacat: I think time zones are dumb?
zakacat: Do we even need em anymore>
zakacat: ?
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: why do we all live different places? that's dumb
zakacat: Yah
zakacat: ur right
zakacat: we should all be stacked vertically
Astrobytes: Humans are dumb.
Cr4shOverride: New york is way ahead of you
zakacat: haha, definitely
AmineACH51: Hello world
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Terrible start to the new year. The PP size contrib has been rejected
e_fishel: It was fair and square
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Yeah, I guess the testes cases needed more work
e_fishel: no
e_fishel: it's about the problem itself
e_fishel: it's not about the test cases
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Fair enough. If your rejection lasts more than four hours, please see a doctor
jacek: oO
Remus_: Doing Code Vs Zombies and debug logging makes my code pass, and fail without logging... I love timing bugs
Astrobytes: you like bugs that involve timing issues or you actually like to time your bugs?
jacek: :3
Remus_: I like to time making bugs on days when I'm not in the mood of fixing them
Astrobytes: gotta pass the time somehow I guess :D
Remus_: masochism I guess
Astrobytes: hehehehe
Astrobytes: I guess it's after midnight or a war has begun in my area
Remus_: war probably if you live in Ukraine
Astrobytes: UK, close enough :rofl:
Remus_: oh, flushing in debug print might fck the timing :joy:
Remus_: just might
Astrobytes: python?
Remus_: yeah
Astrobytes: yes it will
Astrobytes: flush stdout
Astrobytes: or something
Astrobytes: It's in the forum somewhere
Remus_: now it fails consistently! reproducibility is nice
Astrobytes: no wait, flush everything
Astrobytes: Ugh, I'm confused
jacek: its flushing automatically with endline
Astrobytes: It's late, I've had a beer or two
Astrobytes: on stderr?
jacek: only two?
Astrobytes: well, 6
Remus_: those are rookie numbers
Astrobytes: I'm Scottish, the night is only beginning, I am about to open my whisky
Remus_: I've continued with whisky after
the midnight champagne
Astrobytes: Excellent choice :)
jacek: no gin lovers?
Remus_: Not scotch though, I've never tried that
MSmits: noggin' lovers?
Remus_: noggin?
MSmits: https://www.noggin.com/
Remus_: This content is not available in your current location.
rip
MSmits: aww
MSmits: I guess you can't learn with the characters you love then
Astrobytes: noggin means your head here
MSmits: who's head?
Astrobytes: or like a small drink
Astrobytes: My noggin is my head, your noggin is your head
MSmits: sounds like the start of some excellent lyrics
Astrobytes: Regarding whisky I do have a Scotch this year, a 10 yr old Glenmorangie gifted by a friend
MSmits: I thought I'd lower the complexity of my humor, but you guys aren't drunk enough yet
Astrobytes: Not my usual, but a great whisky
Astrobytes: lol MSmits
Astrobytes: I only start getting drunk now
MSmits: ok good to know
Astrobytes: *from now
jacek: your humor?
MSmits: indeed
MSmits: more drink jacek
jacek: or more weed
MSmits: works
MSmits: I'll do some more sermons about black holes if you do weed. You'll love it
Remus_: I'm interested
MSmits: good good
Astrobytes: throw some mushrooms in there and he'll explain brane cosmology
MSmits: earlier i was saying how nothing has ever fallen into a black hoke
MSmits: hole
MSmits: nah, I don't do branes
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: we could talk about dark matter and energy, and I could predictably say they are just made up nonsense
Astrobytes: A black hoke
Astrobytes: Brane-based theory is awesome though
MSmits: wouldn't say made up nonsense, just names for holes in our knowledge
MSmits: the word dark here just means unknown
Astrobytes: ^ best reply ever
jacek: dark energy is like bias in NN. it fills the gaps
jacek: or matter
Astrobytes: (off-topic a little but I have a Dark Energy II synthesiser)
MSmits: cool
MSmits: does it expand your universe?
Remus_: booo
Astrobytes: It's a cool instrument, it expanded my sonic vocabulary
Remus_: MSmits do you buy into the fuzzball stuff?
MSmits: fuzzball, do you mean hairy black holes?
MSmits: like information being stuck on the surface of a black hole?
Astrobytes: Also got a Dark Time sequencer too, both analogue. Made in Germany by Doepfer
MSmits: physicists don't really understand time, the prefix dark would be redundant
Remus_: It's about black holes only having surface and they have no volume (no space-time in there as far as I understood it)
Astrobytes: (it's just a name, it's a voltage based controller device)
MSmits: yeah that's the geometry they have Remus_
MSmits: it's the only thing that would make sense to me, if nothing has ever fallen into a black hole and it's completely disconnected from the rest of the universe, then the volume of it is meaningless
Astrobytes: Things don't have to make sense...
MSmits: That too, but it's a bonus
MSmits: if they do
Astrobytes: That's how we get more things to solve/investigate :D
Astrobytes: yes true
Remus_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzball_(string_theory)
I was referring to this before
MSmits: I just think it's really weird that these astrophysicists always talk about what would happen if you fell into a black hole when that's impossible
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I haven't kept up with physics lately. Last I new the accelerators were about at the end of the roadmap, and string theory looked to be impossible to prove true or false
jacek: it doesnt need to make sense. as long as it works...
MrCalindo: happy new year everyone
MSmits: it's like going faster than light, you can discuss that meaningfully either
MSmits: it's outside possible physics given the laws
Remus_: Happy new year!
MSmits: can't
MSmits: happy ny!
Astrobytes: MSmits: I think it's more of a popularisation technique rather than a serious communication to other physicists
jacek: new year? did we travel in time :thinking:
MSmits: yeah but it bugs me because they also say in those documentaries that time slows to a standstill when you're falling in
MSmits: so while popularizing they make it sound like a paradox
MSmits: when it's not
Astrobytes: Yes, that's fair
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Gateway does it right I think
Astrobytes: They should say it tends towards time standing still
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Fred Pohl
Astrobytes: For one observer
Remus_: so you can only fall onto a black hole (onto its surface, this might not be proper English though :grin:)
MSmits: yeah, but more accurately, you will approach it asymptotically
MSmits: it will evaporate before you ever hit the surface
MSmits: because evaporation takes a finite time
MSmits: and falling onto it takes in infinite amount of time
MSmits: an
Astrobytes: oh fuzzballs, gotcha now
Remus_: wouldn't you also speed up as the mass decreases and its effect on time gets smaller?
MSmits: well speeding up is kind of a very complicated statement when both velocity, the passage of time, the mass and the radius of the black hole change
MSmits: both as in, all 4 of those things ( i thought of 2 more while tpying)
DialFrost: strange how come my code golf rank isnt increasing
Astrobytes: Isn't this different for the fuzzball model vs classical black hole?
MSmits: not sure, i am not that knowledgable about string theory
Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: did they ever figure out if a black hole can destroy information?
MSmits: I think they agree it doesn't
MSmits: mostly
Remus_: how does Hawking radiation works with no volume though
MSmits: hawking radiation happens outside the hole
MSmits: doesn't need volume inside
Remus_: one half "sticks" to the surface then?
MSmits: it's just some negative energy that takes energy away from the hole, from the outside
MSmits: the positive part leaving the area completely
MSmits: yeah i guess sticks is an ok way to put it
MSmits: I always thought it's pretty bold to accept hawking radiation as truth the way they do though
MSmits: especially since there is no theory of quantum + general relativity
MSmits: well string theory tries to be but hawking radiation doesnt come from there
Astrobytes: the fuzzball absorbs information as well as losing from it's surface or something like that iirc
Kous92: Happy New Year 2022
Astrobytes: so it doesn't actually 'lose' information in the classical sense
DialFrost: nice u guys tlaking about thermal radiation in space on new year
DialFrost: <33
MSmits: it just uses fuzzy logic
MSmits: hawking radiation
MSmits: not thermal
MSmits: but we can do thermal
Astrobytes: Nah, it's not interesting enough
DialFrost: Hawking radiation is thermal radiation that is theorized to be released outside a black hole's event horizon
DialFrost: :/
Remus_: start the year as you want to spend the rest, drunk and talking about physics
MSmits: is it thermal?
MSmits: does it follow the same curve?
MSmits: i did not know that
MSmits: oh yeah, says it's thermal, cool
Astrobytes: thermal, really?
MSmits: yeah apparently, maybe the math comes down to the same distribution of photons
Astrobytes: This is only in classical models I assume
Remus_: I mean, it is a black body
MSmits: yeah ok but the mechanism is kinda different Remus_
Astrobytes: I hate thermodynamics :D
Astrobytes: (that's a relative hate)
Remus_: (implied ba dum tss :joy:)
MSmits: so, relativistic thermodynamics?
Astrobytes: :rofl:
MSmits: when you say classical model, do you mean non-quantum non-relativistic or both?
Astrobytes: Bit of both yes
MSmits: mmh ok
Astrobytes: Should have made that clearer since you're a physicist ;)
MSmits: I feel less of a physicist these days
MSmits: I teach 1 class, 3 hrs a week
Remus_: https://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/bh/hawk.html
"The Hawking luminosity
L
of the black hole is given by the usual Stefan-Boltzmann blackbody formula"
MSmits: and just fill in for my colleague
MSmits: yeah so thermal
Astrobytes: It's still there though, it doesn't go away. I'm still a biologist although not using it currently
MSmits: true
MSmits: i mean I am not really keeping it up
MSmits: when I read papers it's usually because of some game I am trying to solve :P
Astrobytes: Yeah I get that, been slacking a little recently too :D
MSmits: biology has been in the news more though
MSmits: so you can claim you're keeping up a bit
Astrobytes: (I've even been slacking at that until the last month or 2 until the Omicron variant)
Astrobytes: -1 'until'
MSmits: that omicron variant really confused people
MSmits: they don't know what to think anymore
MSmits: about lockdowns, vaccines etc.
MSmits: camps were clear before, with delta
MSmits: now it's like, umm what's next
Remus_: Alpha2
Astrobytes: It evades the immune system effectively, thus decreasing efficacy of the vaccines, booster showed higher resilience against it. Severity is still the same. Mortality is unknown right now
MSmits: severity is the same ?
MSmits: are you sure? I hear differently, a lot
Astrobytes: Yes, in unvaxxed
MSmits: but why so much less hospitalization than expected?
Astrobytes: Plenty were asymptomatic or mild symptoms with all variants so far
MSmits: sure, but with the explosion of cases, don't you expect more hospitalization?
MSmits: it's higher than it ever was
Astrobytes: MSmits: Yes I do, soon
Astrobytes: But again, even only double vax still protects more
Astrobytes: Most hospitalisations are unvaxxed currently, at least here
MSmits: i wonder how sure they are of that
Astrobytes: they're not, it's an evolving situation
MSmits: i mean i would take the shots anyways, delta didn't go non-existent
Astrobytes: Hard to manage that in terms of public affairs
Remus_: 3rd (booster) does some good I hope, I've gotten it a few weeks ago
MSmits: omicron could burn out and delta could just come back
Astrobytes: Omicron is more effective at evading immunity
MSmits: yeah but it also spreads super fast and people get natural immunity to it that way
MSmits: then when they have it, delta could come back if they're not vaxxed
Astrobytes: That's what omicron is good at
Astrobytes: Evading immunity
MSmits: the current immunity, not all immunity right? The body obviously beats it or everyone would die of it
MSmits: so once you beat it...
MSmits: only delta is left
Astrobytes: It's quite a nasty little variant.
MSmits: for contagiousness yes
MSmits: but that also makes the waves more shortlived
Astrobytes: No that's silly. Everyone is different. But it is extremely good at reinfection, which creates more opportunities to mutate
MSmits: yeah thats true
Astrobytes: It's not just about spreadability
Astrobytes: or infectiousness rather
MSmits: why do we never worry about the common cold mutating into something bad?
MSmits: i mean it's always going around too
MSmits: plenty of opportunities
MSmits: i guess some viruses are more likely to succesfully mutate?
Astrobytes: yes
MSmits: or maybe the cold virus is already optimal for it's own survival and any mutation that makes it worse for us, makes it spread less efficiently
Astrobytes: it's a ... um, rhinovirus I believe
MSmits: also corona
MSmits: there's different viruses we call cold viruses i think
Astrobytes: yes correct
MSmits: you never hear about them mutating into something bad. It's always coming from some animal
Astrobytes: I think corona- and rhino- viruses are the main ones
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: I've probably had corona so many times
MSmits: it's just a different one
Astrobytes: but there's like hundreds of viruses that cause 'a cold'
MSmits: it's not really clear how different 2 viruses need to be to be called separate viruses
MSmits: there's thousands of covid versions too
MSmits: just not many of interest
Astrobytes: They need to be genetically different
MSmits: but they all are
Astrobytes: Significantly
MSmits: yeah but thats the word
MSmits: hard to define
Astrobytes: as in measurably significantly different
MSmits: sure, but there's much to measure
Astrobytes: genes with certain consequences etc
MSmits: it's not like physics where you have a handful of variables
Astrobytes: well, it's a lot easier these days to sequence viral genomes
MSmits: sure
MSmits: I wonder how long it will take before stuff like measles/polio comes back in serious amounts
Astrobytes: I have no idea where this particular virus originated from (originally I mean) but it's one tough MF
MSmits: this covid thing lowered vaccination rates for those as well
Astrobytes: they were already going down thanks to internet antivaxxers
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: i think there needs to be some horror-stories about paralyzed children and such before people start to take it seriously
MSmits: it's going to happen again
MSmits: if you read up on the history of this, it's horrifying
Astrobytes: Death is no longer substantive evidence for vaccine abstention
MSmits: no but thats the thing, paralyzed children aren;t dead
Astrobytes: That's what I'm saying
MSmits: ahh ok
Astrobytes: (I could have worded it better)
MSmits: no i get it now
Astrobytes: (blame the whisky)
MSmits: I've realized something the other day
MSmits: you always hear about children being damaged by lockdowns and such
MSmits: but my sense is, their own social media addiction hurts them more than the lockdowns ever did
MSmits: and noone seems to take that seriously
MSmits: 3-5 hrs a day is the average
Astrobytes: Well yes indeed. All our priorities are backwards :D
Astrobytes: (not 'ours' per se, but you know what I mean)
Remus_: for one, online classes are much less effective than irl ones
Astrobytes: Depends on age and subject
MSmits: yes it does, but on average he's right
MSmits: my point is not that it's not less effective
Astrobytes: Yeah not disagreeing
MSmits: my point is that their addiction damages them far more
MSmits: 3-5 hrs a day is insane
Astrobytes: absolutely
MSmits: and thats the *average*
Astrobytes: I was about to add I know far more under-18s who spend wayyyy longer than that
MSmits: every spare minute they stare at their machines
MSmits: there's no time to think
MSmits: it turns them into machines themselves
MSmits: if all you do is social media + work + sports + sleep, you are a machine
Astrobytes: work 5-7 days a week 9-5 also makes you a machine, good for nothing
MSmits: yeah but after 5 you got spare time at least
Astrobytes: (outside of those hours)
MSmits: with those smart-phones it's filled up with bs
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: you mean for being tired
MSmits: sure yeah
Astrobytes: consider most people get up at 5 or 6 to start a 8am or 9am start job (commute time)
MSmits: that's bad too
Astrobytes: work-life and now + tech balance is very important
MSmits: so the social media thing just puts more pressure on this problem
Remus_: home office ftw in that regard
Astrobytes: yes exactly MSmits
Astrobytes: And yes Remus_
MSmits: my view is, there shouldnt even be balancing needed. Tech should be helpful not harmful
Astrobytes: You utopian idealist you! :D
MSmits: indeed :)
Astrobytes: On that note, I'm off to drink and eat :D
MSmits: have fun
Astrobytes: See you later guys and have an excellent night
MSmits: you too
Stilgart: have fun Astrobytes
Astrobytes: (good chat btw)
MSmits: yup
Remus_: good night
Astrobytes: And you Stilgart
Stilgart: and happy new year to everyone
Astrobytes: :)
DialFrost: morning
DialFrost: <33
____Z_X_C____: morning
creeperZnation4: Happy New Years!!! (for half the world)
____Z_X_C____: lol
SoulsTogether: Happy new years.
xyh_from_China: Happy new year!
____Z_X_C____: hi anyone take a look at my puzzle?
____Z_X_C____: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/7753bfe04219f5d2023bfccf04e824c82bee
Jerrasterix: Happy new year !!!
MingoVanBurne: proof?
