Wontonimo: cool Cegwe, how did you do it?
Wontonimo: generally speaking, i'm not asking for exact code
Cegwe: I used a bias towards the middle of the board, and made the bot find the space where it was adjacent to the most 2 in a row places at the same time (favoring blocking over anything)
Cegwe: It took a lot of tweaking and tinkering but I was happy with the result
Cegwe: The bias was super small by the way, it was only for tie breakers
Wontonimo: nice. my bot is MCTS with scoring based on win/loss (not point difference), so it gives up easily and doesn't really try to crush the enemy when winning
Cegwe: I didn't even think to take point difference into account, maybe I could take the lead if I did
Wontonimo: i think i'll next try UCT with scoring as the valuation
Wontonimo: maybe some local sim to find those kinds of bias and constants you found manually.
Cegwe: I'm wondering if the time given for input is enough to go deeper than one layer of play? It would be cool to simulate the best course of action in a higher depth
Cegwe: I'm not really experienced in any botting at all, so this game was super fun to figure out
Wontonimo: i'm simulating something crazy like 100K playouts, but the selection space is greatly pruned down to about10 moves
ProCoder03: You guys already wrote a sim :confused:, why am I not able to write sims :sob:
Cegwe: Wow
Cegwe: I'm only looking at one layer lol
Wontonimo: i think that is something that is killing my bot, 10 moves out of 100 is too agressive
Wontonimo: yeah, and you are beating me !
Wontonimo: heuristic beats brute force in this game!
Cegwe: I bet if you work on that though you'd be at #1
Wontonimo: maybe. i'm thinking this would be a good game for NN
Wontonimo: conv NN
Cegwe: probably; can you make good NNs on this site? I can't think of a way to make it viable without some sort of file saving
Cegwe: I'd love to give it a shot but I don't even know where to start to be honest - I'm super new to this site and only really started playing a week or two ago
ProCoder03: you have some article about it in codingame.com/learn
Cegwe: Oh sweet I'll take a look
Wontonimo: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/58137/alphazero-like-implementation-for-oware-abapa-game-codingame/alphazero-like-implementation-for-oware-abapa-game
Wontonimo: a wonderful contribution by Marchete
Cegwe: oh sweet
ProCoder03: geez, I just overshot this while searching
Wontonimo: I haven't implemented it yet, but several people here have. It is a monster of an undertaking if you haven't written a local sim before
Cegwe: lol going to try to adapt this into my langauge of choice
Wontonimo: my job is NN, machine learning and data science, and I'm passing on it for now (because of the amount of work involved)
Cegwe: yeah I've tried before and it's pretty awful, but I don't work in any computer related field so I don't get so tired of it as quickly as many others do
Cegwe: I feel like keeping this as a hobby instead of a job has helped me keep it fun
Wontonimo: i do both :D
Cegwe: That's pretty awesome
Wontonimo: I'm working on automating an unfolding clicker game right now, a reverse engineering and automation challenge
ProCoder03: did derjack screw his MCTS ??
Cegwe: can you link it?
Wontonimo: https://pmotschmann.github.io/Evolve/
Cegwe: ooh this game
Cegwe: i know this one
Wontonimo: how far have you gotten?
Cegwe: not tooooo far
Cegwe: although my save disapeered
Cegwe: I actually don't remember it's been a while
Wontonimo: black hole reset?
Wontonimo: bioseeding?
Cegwe: doubt it on bioseeding doesn't ring a bell
Wontonimo: ah, then you only scratched the surface
Cegwe: yeah, I have a hard time with resource management games
Wontonimo: it's an optimization problem
Cegwe: for sure
Wontonimo: hint, go for population growth before anything else
Cegwe: are you trying to make it go the fastest?
Cegwe: the automation?
Cegwe: the only type of game like that I ever got far in was trimps
Wontonimo: funny you should say that, a good friend of mine has a similar opinion
Cegwe: Well it was the first one I tried, and since then none of the other ones have really pulled me in like trimps did
Cegwe: Do you have any recommendation on which bot competition I should do next? I want something a little harder, but some of those competitions look way too complex for me
ProCoder03: What have you done yet ??
Cegwe: counting tictactoe was the one I worked on today, but its not approved yet; I did some of the pod racing one, but didn't really like that one by the time I got to bronze league
Cegwe: That's all so far
ProCoder03: try UTTT
Wontonimo: there is a concept called PID controllers that works really well on Coders strikes back and the mars lander stuff
Wontonimo: as far as other challenges ... I had a lot of fun with Tron
Cegwe: ill give uttt a try; I would get into looking at PID but i dont really like the coders strikes back challenge anyways
ProCoder03: Tron uses 2D arrays and DFS, right ??
Cegwe: I'll give tron a try too
Wontonimo: UTTT (Ultimate Tic Tac Toe) was my first attempt at MCTS here on CG. For that it is kinda special to me
Cegwe: maybe ill try one too? I've never implemented that before
Wontonimo: Tron was fun because I got really far using just floodfill
Cegwe: Do you have an article on mcts? I don't really know how it works
Wontonimo: and the pacman game was fun because I got pretty far in that using something like floodfill, more more like "diffusing smell"
Wontonimo: just a sec. i'll get you something
Cegwe: Thank you
Cegwe: Also what's floodfill? I keep seeing mentioned, but don't really know what it means
Wontonimo: this video has great content (not the best video production) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXW2yZndl7U
Cegwe: Thank you!
ProCoder03: wait isn't it MCTS Wontonimo
ProCoder03: the link
Cegwe: its a video by a 'john levine'
Wontonimo: it explains MCTS applied to a situation that is NOT adversarial. To make it adversarial, you need to flip the value of the backprop as it goes up the tree
ProCoder03: so MCTS and flood fill are similar ??
Wontonimo: i was talking about mcts. hadn't got to flood fill yet
ProCoder03: Ohh... my bad
Wontonimo: np :D
Wontonimo: here is a puzzle about flood fill https://www.codingame.com/training/medium/flood-fill-example
Cegwe: so would i just use recursion for it? that seems like the most immediate way to go about it, but I obviously don't know if it's actually any good
Wontonimo: it's really good for calculating areas of control
Cegwe: ooooh floodfill is like the a* pathfinding thing
Wontonimo: kinda
Wontonimo: but yeah, very related
ProCoder03: Do we need to know pathfinding algo to understand floodfill ??
Wontonimo: nope
Wontonimo: you can use floodfill to accomplish lots of things.
Wontonimo: for example, in mars lander 3 I use it to make a scoring gradient from the landing pad. The floodfill
Wontonimo: in this case also increments as it fills,
Cegwe: makes sense to me
Wontonimo: so my lander can at any time lookup the floodfill 2d array and get a distance from the landing pad, even around corners
Cegwe: But the mcts is still a bit confusing, I think I'll need to play with it to understand it
miszu: one thing I don't understand if when I put a seed in IDE and print the grid... then do the exact same thing in visual studio and print the grid, I get two different thing
Wontonimo: hmm , don't know about that miszu
miszu: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/0aab8d9f-de02-4b42-8a88-bf6fc6ba34b1
Wontonimo: okay, Cegwe, are you familiar with minimax ?
Cegwe: yes
miszu: same code in ide and visual studio yet different results
Cegwe: maybe this ide or visual studio applies their own modifier to your value, or maybe it runs a different version or something
Wontonimo: so, imagine minimax, and instead of evaluating ALL of the next level at the same time, you evaluate only the most promising 1 branch
Cegwe: ok but sometimes isnt that a fluke?
Cegwe: like it seems pretty good, but not fantastic
Wontonimo: it is, and by evaluating that 1 branch you get more insight into how good/bad it is
Cegwe: oh I see
Wontonimo: now there are two terms that control this,
Cegwe: ok and if its bad you just choose the next best one I assume?
Wontonimo: yeah
Wontonimo: right ... but ...
Wontonimo: if you've only looked at the first layer, then you really don't have much confidence in any of them
Cegwe: ok
Cegwe: so how many layers should I look at before switching to mcts?
Wontonimo: once you expand one of those , you have 2 data points at that top for that 1 branch
Wontonimo: but only 1 data point for all the others
Wontonimo: and you can calculate the uncertainty using probability theory
Cegwe: omg statistic rip
Wontonimo: so, even if that expand was by fluke great, you reduce the uncertainty of that branch ... and the other branches now look more interesting, because their value plus their uncertainty puts them higher than thee one you explored
Cegwe: Oh okay, so do you just use some threshold to decide when the outcome is good enough?
Wontonimo: this is all controlled with UCB1 eval equation that someeone clever already solved and it's in the video
Cegwe: yeah i saw that
Wontonimo: some people call it the "exploration term"
Wontonimo: it's the second half of the UCB1 evaluation
Wontonimo: the first half is just average reward
Cegwe: Man this is going to be a whole project for tomorrow
Cegwe: Maybe I'll try putting this into the counting tictactoe game although idk if that'd be worth it
ProCoder03: So Minimax is just MCTS, but instead of exploring the promising one, you explore all the possibilities. Am I right ??
Cegwe: I'll probably try it on something new
Wontonimo: it took me 4 weeks, 30 hours a week to write my UTTT bot. Maybe I'm slow. it was also the first time in over 25 years that I coded c++
Cegwe: Man that must be wild
Cegwe: Imma try to do it in java, it'll probably take me equally long if not longer
ProCoder03: well if you know Flat MC and basic trees, It was easy....
Wontonimo: 2 words : unit tests
ProCoder03: not too easy, took me 14 hrs to debug and make it work properly
Cegwe: I still have to figure out exactly whats going on with mcts anyways - you and that video definitely helped but i still feel miles away from true understanding
Wontonimo: i used bitboarding for uttt. it's a must if you are using MCTS
Cegwe: bitboarding?
Cegwe: oh gosh more stuff I've never heard of
Wontonimo: yeah, say you are just playing TTT, plain 3x3 TTT
Wontonimo: and you need to save the game board
Wontonimo: 2 players, 9 squares, 3 states per square
Wontonimo: how would you store that info?
Cegwe: array with 1 for x, 2 for o, 0 for empty, and then i'd do a seperate variable with whose turn it was
Cegwe: in a file it would probably look like aXEOEXEEEO
Cegwe: a being the first player(X), and E being empty
Cegwe: that's how id do it
Wontonimo: okay. now how we check to see if one player has just placed a move that wins, we would iterate over the horizontal, the vertical and the two diagonals
Wontonimo: right?
Cegwe: yeah
Wontonimo: 8 iterations, with 3 lookups into the array per iteration
Wontonimo: for 8x3 accesses of the array
Wontonimo: okay,
Wontonimo: what if instead
Wontonimo: we stored each players owned positions in 1 int, in the bytes of the int
Cegwe: how do you mean?
Wontonimo: so, if player 1 has no squares then we would store that as 1 int like so
0b000000000
Cegwe: oh ok
Wontonimo: and if that player owned the centre, then like so
0b000010000
Wontonimo: and we do the same for the other player
Cegwe: oh i get where this is going i think
Wontonimo: now, there are 512 possible configurations of 9 bits
Wontonimo: and you can make a table of which configurations are winning configurations
Wontonimo: and in ... wait for it ....
Wontonimo: ONE lookup you can know if the player won
Wontonimo: that's a lot faster than 8x3 in a loop
Cegwe: that's true
Wontonimo: it isn't 24x faster
Wontonimo: it is a lot more than that
Cegwe: can you use a seperate file to store those winning positions on this website? or would you have to messily leave that in the code somewhere?
Wontonimo: because the loop has a branch, and branches are actually pretty expensive
Wontonimo: you can calculate it once at the startup of your code and build the 512 values in 1 millisecond
Cegwe: oh i see
Cegwe: i didnt think about having the code do it
Cegwe: that makes a lot more sense
Wontonimo: for UTTT, my code uses 9 mini 3x3 boards. each mini 3x3 board uses the above technique
Wontonimo: another example of how this is a benefit ,
Wontonimo: say you want to calculate all remaining valid moves
Wontonimo: playerA has some value like 0b10010000
Wontonimo: and playerB has maybe 0b000010000
Wontonimo: the valid moves that remain is
Wontonimo: 0b111111111 ^ (playerA | playerB)
Wontonimo: in 2 operations you've calculated all the remaining valid positions
Wontonimo: I was slightly aware of this concept before UTTT, but I really didn't have a good appreciation of how much it optimizes code.
ProCoder03: Wontonimo: A small doubt, so Minimax is just MCTS, but instead of exploring the promising one, you explore all the possibilities. Am I right ??
ProCoder03: and one more, how do we sense the heading direction of Tron ??
Wontonimo: i guess. If the exploration constant in MCTS is high enough, it will act very much like Minimax.
Wontonimo: but probably not as efficient as minimax
ProCoder03: so Minimax is effective than MCTS, though a time consuming algo ??
Wontonimo: hmm ... there is a difference between MCTS and a UCT with eval. MCTS is a special case of UCT (upper confidence Tree) where the eval is a random playout.
TechnoBot: Hi :)
Wontonimo: you can sub in some other eval for a random playout, then MCTS becomes a UCT with eval. Minimax usually has an eval, so it is more like UCT
TechnoBot: ??????
Wontonimo: hi TechnoBot
TechnoBot: HI Wontonimo
ProCoder03: what's UCT ??
ProCoder03: is it like UCB1 ??
TechnoBot: Bruh
TechnoBot: NO ITS NOT
ProCoder03: then ??
TechnoBot: ITS not a UCB
Wontonimo: UCB1 is the equation for directing expansion
TechnoBot: Ill tell you after u play Coders Strike back
TechnoBot: what a UCT is
TechnoBot: JOIN
ProCoder03: I am already in gold in it
Wontonimo: you can use another equation, there are plenty. UCB1 is just the most famous atm
Wontonimo: what rank have you reached in CSB TechnoBot ?
ProCoder03: okay, but What is acronym of UCT ??
Wontonimo: Upper Confidence Tree
Wontonimo: that's the Tree part of MCTS
Wontonimo: MC = Monte Carlo, TS = Tree Search
ProCoder03: Which part, the rolling part ??
Wontonimo: the tree search is the UCT that is in MCTS
Wontonimo: the tree in MCTS is an UCT
Wontonimo: back to TechnoBot, what's your rank in Coders Strikes Back?
Wontonimo: have you implemented a PID controller?
TechnoBot: Hey lets see who can finish Coders Stroke Back First. Beat me and I'll tell you something You Don't Know
Cegwe: dangi t
Cegwe: my internet timed out
Cegwe: i hate this shitty internet but its the only decent provider around here
Wontonimo: okay, you are on TechnoBot
ProCoder03: well as per that guy in video, He told MCTS has 4 parts - Selection, Expansion, Rollout and Backpropagate, I implemented MCTS according to it... So can you point what part is UCT Wontonimo ??
Wontonimo: the whole tree. that thing you expand and select from
ProCoder03: The Tree which I select and expand is called UCT ah.. ??
Wontonimo: I'm a little ahead of you TechnoBot, try harder
Wontonimo: yeah ProCoder03, you got it!
TechnoBot: BRUH
ProCoder03: you call that little ahead humphh ??
Wontonimo: if you want I can push your pod at little faster
Wontonimo: but seriously TechnoBot, would you like a hint ?
TechnoBot: Nope.
Wontonimo: cool
TechnoBot: But I'm just gonna push it back a bit lol
TechnoBot: I'm gonna beat you at the last second or rather the last 0.1 sec
TechnoBot: :smirk:
TechnoBot: Done.
TechnoBot: I finished lol
TechnoBot: :D
Cegwe: yay my internet started working again
TechnoBot: Cegwe's internet is bad
TechnoBot: LOL
Cegwe: facts
SimonLandry: Ditch the wifi
SimonLandry: that might help
TechnoBot: Yeah
TechnoBot: My bot wifi is The BEST
TechnoBot: It has a password tho
Cegwe: you're right no more wifi
miszu: 57th in the 2048 optimization
miszu: yesss
TechnoBot: It's name is @GP_PH
Cegwe: I'll send my messages in the mail, please respond within 2 business weeks
Cegwe: Imma give 2048 a try
Wontonimo: congrats miszu !
TechnoBot: Wontinimo
Wontonimo: are you using a beam search?
TechnoBot: BRUH
Wontonimo: that's the second time you use that word. i don't think it means what you think it means
TechnoBot: I just finished
TechnoBot: LOL
TechnoBot: Are you still racing?
TechnoBot: HAHAHAHAHA Bruh man]
Wontonimo: ??
Wontonimo: miszu , are you using a beam search for 2048?
TechnoBot: did you finish
TechnoBot: CODERS STRKE BACK
TechnoBot: EH
TechnoBot: ?
ProCoder03: he isn't racing, but his bot is !!
Cegwe: oh gosh now i gotta look up what beam search is
Wontonimo: oh, i made a bot for coders strikes back, yeah
Cegwe: all this stuff and information
TechnoBot: Hey im the bot
TechnoBot: I am controlling my computer
TechnoBot: cause I am the computer
TechnoBot: HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
TechnoBot: BTW Wontinimo DID NOT MAKE ME
Wontonimo: beam search is very much like breath first search, except you only keep the last X number of promising items, and you expand the one that looks the most promising first
Cegwe: oh ok
TechnoBot: Bruh
TechnoBot: 𝓑𝓡𝓤𝓗
Cegwe: that was actually immediately understandable for once
ProCoder03: BFS and DFS are like MCTS ??
TechnoBot: 𝓑𝓡𝓤𝓗
TechnoBot: That is so easy
Cegwe: Imma try to implement my own version of that without looking anything up
TechnoBot: Hey Wontinimo, What place are you in the race
Wontonimo: no, bfs and dfs are not like mcts.
TechnoBot: WONTINIMO
TechnoBot: WHAT PLACE ARE YOU IN THE RACE
Wontonimo: 78th
TechnoBot: Ok,
Wontonimo: don't shout
eulerscheZahl: MCTS has some parallels with DFS: you fully expand a path to the end and then go back up
TechnoBot: Im 83th
TechnoBot: and
TechnoBot: a promise is a promise
eulerscheZahl: but you don't explore the other paths immediately. you don't even necessarily explore the whole tree
TechnoBot: Wontinimo
eulerscheZahl: and you are more careful when it comes to selecting the node you expand next
ProCoder03: :+1: eulerscheZahl
Wontonimo: i don't think we are in the same league TechnoBot
TechnoBot: Yeah
TechnoBot: cause im 90th
TechnoBot: :(
eulerscheZahl: are you at least in the same game?
ProCoder03: he is 88640th ig
TechnoBot: NO
ProCoder03: You are TechnoBot, execpt you are in Wood 2 while he is in Legend...
Wontonimo: according to the leaderboard you are 84,240th over all.
TechnoBot: FINE
TechnoBot: Bruh Im just an iMac
eulerscheZahl: close guess for a random number ProCoder03
eulerscheZahl: got 3 out of 5 digits right
TechnoBot: iMacs are dumb thats why I'm 84240th
TechnoBot: Cause I'm an iMac
ProCoder03: nahh... I saw his when he was at the last of leaderboard..
Wontonimo: try reloading the default code using the circle arrow in thee upper right hand corner TechnoBot (i'm not trolling)
ProCoder03: It was not a guess, it was his previous rank
Wontonimo: your current code is crashing your bot
TechnoBot: ok
TechnoBot: I think you mean Upper left corner
Wontonimo: the error message is that your code timed out. you probably have an if statement around your final print, and when it is false you don't print anything
Wontonimo: no, upper right, in the coding game IDE
TechnoBot: Beat me in ONBOARDING ok?
TechnoBot: Start in
TechnoBot: 9
Wontonimo: not the browsers reload
TechnoBot: 8
TechnoBot: 7
TechnoBot: 6
TechnoBot: Play
TechnoBot: ONBORDING
TechnoBot: Hey
ProCoder03: :wave:
TechnoBot: play Ultimate TIC TAC TOE
TechnoBot: beat me and ull tel u a secret
TechnoBot: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
ProCoder03: Nah... you have to beat me..
TechnoBot: ok
TechnoBot: start now
ProCoder03: I am already in bronze...
TechnoBot: Its best If u dont know iMacs
TechnoBot: hehehe
TechnoBot: 99% of all plays I am in #1 place
**TechnoBot slaps ProCoder03 around a bit with a large fishbot
TechnoBot: HAHAHAHA
TechnoBot: But I should slap myself for taking a nap.
**TechnoBot slaps TecnoBot around a bit with a large fishbot
Wontonimo: hey TechnoBot, are you MK. you are acting a lot like an MK
Cegwe: does the seed in 2048 not work as shown in github? it doesnt seem to be following the same rules, but maybe that's just me
TechnoBot: Nope
TechnoBot: look at my rank
eulerscheZahl: the 2048 seed works just fine. the github code is the same as on CodinGame
eulerscheZahl: common mistake: swap x and y when enumerating possible cells to spawn at
jacek: happy Caturday
Cegwe: oh ok
Cegwe: illl take a look
eulerscheZahl: same to you jacek
TechnoBot: Hey
TechnoBot: What am I saying (type in chat)
Cegwe: I must've messed up somehow, my positions are indication all wacky
TechnoBot: hey
TechnoBot: tell me something
Wontonimo: i got to 32,768 on my phone in 2048 once. It took a few weeks.
TechnoBot: Look at the ranking
TechnoBot: What do you see?
Wontonimo: there is a pattern
Cegwe: yeah but i messed up reading the seed and im having trouble finding out why
ProCoder03: its a power of 2 iirc...
TechnoBot: The Boss took my profile pic an I took his
Wontonimo: i used the ref code. i didn't feel like fiddling with the seed generator.
Wontonimo: for 2048
TechnoBot: ?
TechnoBot: Im doing POWER OF THOR
Cegwe: ill try using the reference
jacek: oO
Wontonimo: episode 1 TechnoBot ?
Wontonimo: the referee. not reference
Wontonimo: is that bad? should I get a demerit point for that?
ProCoder03: for what ??
TechnoBot: HUH
Wontonimo: nvm, was asking Jacek
jacek: the oO was to reference
Wontonimo: +1
Wontonimo: i have to remember to recommend Thor episode 1 to new joiners. I forgot about it.
TechnoBot: BRUH
Cegwe: I copy pasted and it still isnt returning the right values
Cegwe: I feel like I might just be stupid
Cegwe: I'm just going to go to sleep and hopefully I'll figure things out tomorrow
Wontonimo: good luck
Wontonimo: i have the same feeling regularly while programming
Wontonimo: ng all
Wontonimo: i'm out also
TechnoBot: ok
**TechnoBot slaps Wontonimo around a bit with a large fishbot
TechnoBot: TECHNO BOT IS SHUTTING DOWN
TechnoBot: NETWORK FAILURE
TechnoBot: SELF DESTRUCTING IN
TechnoBot: 10
TechnoBot: 9
TechnoBot: 8
TechnoBot: 7
TechnoBot: 6
TechnoBot: 5
TechnoBot: 4
TechnoBot: 3
TechnoBot: 2
TechnoBot: 1
eulerscheZahl: no spamming please TechnoBot
jacek: oh, i made little mistake in clash of bots
jacek: fixed and 3 ranks up. not much but better
jacek: and who approved it :unamused: i found a bug https://www.codingame.com/replay/583804833
jacek: "If players have the same number of alive robots, the winner is the player with the most summary health." yet it was draw
eulerscheZahl: funny thing is that the endscreen even declares a winner
DoubleOracle: when would the volcanoes puzzle count as solved for the puzzle of the week achievement?
jacek: when you reach next league
DoubleOracle: to me it looks like the first boss plays random, so submitting the default code could work. Wil give it a try ;-)
jacek: oO
DoubleOracle: it actually feels like it plays worse than random
Manjius: is R in codingame?
eulerscheZahl: Console.WriteLine("RANDOM")
that's from the boss code
eulerscheZahl: there is no R here
Manjius: is R the son of something thats here?
eulerscheZahl: no
Manjius: oh well ty
eulerscheZahl: languages and versions: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/40701/help-center/languages-versions
DJTenYearOldDictator_63b0: wazr
eulerscheZahl: the higher boss at volcanoes is surprisingly complex. MCTS with > 2000 lines of code
DoubleOracle: is the code of the bosses public?
eulerscheZahl: but not really speed optimized
eulerscheZahl: no it's not public
jacek: then how do you know it :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: i found an undocumented way and reported it long ago
DoubleOracle: did you report it publicly?
DoubleOracle: I had to submit the random bot twice, but got promotion and quest completion :-)
eulerscheZahl: no public report but staff is aware
jacek: low priority eh
MiyamuraIzumi: hello guys
jacek: happy Caturday
MiyamuraIzumi: how to be a tech guru?
MiyamuraIzumi: too silent
eulerscheZahl: what is a tech guru?
MiyamuraIzumi: forget about it, just a stupid question
jacek: Oo
TheBlueBias: Start by being a kan guru.
MiyamuraIzumi: haha
d33pb1ue: guys how do i do power calculations but faster
d33pb1ue: because my program times out
eulerscheZahl: not sure if you ask the right question to get the answer you want
eulerscheZahl: do you want a power modulo something for instance?
d33pb1ue: So I mean when doing a**b, but with bigger numbers like 2*13786 which takes too long
eulerscheZahl: and i'm pretty sure you don't even want the actual result
eulerscheZahl: just tell us what you really need
d33pb1ue: What do you mean I don't want the actual result
eulerscheZahl: do you want to compute the power just to have it? or do something with it? maybe you can do the second without the first
d33pb1ue: I want the first 3 digits of the result
eulerscheZahl: i see. sounds like you can compute a logarithm then
d33pb1ue: What are logarithms?
eulerscheZahl: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/89403/is-there-a-way-to-find-the-first-digits-of-a-number
d33pb1ue: Thank you!
eulerscheZahl: the logarithm is a math function, you'll learn that in higher grades at school
eulerscheZahl: see it as an inverse of the exponential
Thyl: Who will do SnackDown ???
Badea: Hi, I have a question, is there a way of obtaining all clash of code problem statements?
**TheBlueBias drop his Twix on the floor.
TheBlueBias: Done Thyl.
eulerscheZahl: do you want to solve them all in advance Badea? there are more than 1000 clashes
eulerscheZahl: I count 1415, but some of them are already removed now because of poor rating
Badea: Yea I want to practice on them, maybe translate them in my language for those who are not so good with english.
MiyamuraIzumi: How to have a girl friend?
jacek: not on this website
TheBlueBias: Code one
MiyamuraIzumi: haha
MiyamuraIzumi: how do I start to code a girl friend?
MiyamuraIzumi: google doesn't have the answer for this
thealmightyjason: thats pathetic
TheBlueBias: An over-complicated opening book would be a godd start.
TheBlueBias: *good
MiyamuraIzumi: can opening book be randomness
MiyamuraIzumi: she should be interactive and randomness
MiyamuraIzumi: still which algorithm should I use?
DoubleOracle: is it actually possible to create a whitelist or blacklist to filter chat?
struct: DoubleOracle you can put ?disableChat
struct: to the end of the url
struct: or do you mean block someone in the chat?
DoubleOracle: Thanks for the tip - I was more thinking about filtering really than disabling
DoubleOracle: could be users, keywords
DoubleOracle: But I guess I could do that on discord?
struct: yeah you cant do that here
struct: No idea if you can do it on discord
DoubleOracle: I was somehow assuming that the world chat is mirrored on discord - but I don't find the corresponding channel
DoubleOracle: So I assume it is not mirrored?
eulerscheZahl: completely different chats
eulerscheZahl: this one is older than discord
DoubleOracle: I see
DoubleOracle: thanks for clarifying
ProCoder03: will this work num&1^1 if I want to check if num is even or not ??
ProCoder03: and will it be the fastest way to check if something is even or not ??
antiwonto: num&1
struct: n&1 yes
jacek: its faster https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-even
eulerscheZahl: dependencies: 1 (is-odd)
ProCoder03: :laughing: I just saw it now, using is-odd for is-even
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: 😆
eulerscheZahl: over-engineered code, as I only wrote it for homework at programming classes
eulerscheZahl: there is also this package: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-zero
jacek: but no dependencies
jacek: isPositiveZero mhm
eulerscheZahl: when you look at the code, it even does something
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/i-voted-for-trump/is-odd/blob/master/test.js
eulerscheZahl: wait, wrong link
jacek: i-voted-for-trump
eulerscheZahl: that username
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/mohayonao/is-zero/blob/master/index.js
that's what I wanted to link
jacek: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-zero
jacek: argh https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-ten-thousand
eulerscheZahl: of course someone who thinks it's a good idea to release an is-odd package also votes for Trump. makes total sense
jacek: and its dependencies
jacek: finally something worthy for discord memes
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/james-work-account/is-ten-thousand/blob/main/index.js
what a troll code
MiyamuraIzumi: so I see why it need a package now
eulerscheZahl: maybe some see it as a way to tell "see what I did". like having a commit in the Linux kernel
jacek: or having clash played
Thyl: In a minimax, If i explore at depth 9 a branch and 4 antother, the 9 branch is sure
jacek: hm?
AntiSquid: maybe you refer to alpha beta pruning thyl, but not sure what you try to say
Thyl: I want to cut a branc if it get a lot of time
jacek: iterative deepening?
Thyl: jacek is it aproximally
eulerscheZahl: sounds a bit like A*
eulerscheZahl: there you also have some paths that are more explored than others
Thyl: no
eulerscheZahl: yes
Thyl: if in the exploration the time for the exploration is big stop the search
eulerscheZahl: is there are reason not to use iterative deepening then?
Thyl: yes
Thyl: the complexity of Iterative deepening is O (n+n+1+n+2+n+3...)
Thyl: with my code it will be in theory :P
Thyl: O(N)
tangugu: Where can I see the answer
jacek: umm complexity of iterative deepening is still O of the original search
Thyl: eulerscheZahl do you understand
Thyl: ???
eulerscheZahl: sorry, had a private message about 2048 simulation open
Thyl: jacek
eulerscheZahl: look how the tree explodes. even if you only have 2 moves each turn, the node size always doubles
Thyl: yes
eulerscheZahl: of course you do double work with iterative deepening. but it's really minor, wasting a few milliseconds when the next layer can easily take a second
Thyl: ok
Thyl: thx!
eulerscheZahl: add alpha-beta if you haven't already. that one is a big game-changer. combine with some move ordering if possible
Thyl: I did it
Thyl: in oware I am ~ 28
Thyl: I searchto optimize
eulerscheZahl: i'm at 27 :P
Thyl: Yes
Thyl: I know
eulerscheZahl: i had to look it up
Thyl: but you have a MCTS
eulerscheZahl: i think i have a minimax too
Thyl: ooo
Thyl: I kinow
Thyl: When my last Iterative deepening work
eulerscheZahl: yes, negamax with iterative deepening and alpha-beta pruning
Thyl: eulerscheZahl with an old code :
Thyl: 5 minutes to read
Thyl: And He know the code function ;)
Thyl: GG !
Thyl: negamax is the same of minimax
Thyl: ???
eulerscheZahl: yes, just a different way to implement it
TheBlueBias: Just code optimization.
TheBlueBias: You can try to add killermoves in your ID Thyl.
eulerscheZahl: looking at my code, I didn't really try to optimize anything
eulerscheZahl: 237 lines, mostly reused from my checkers bot. and a slow simulation
struct: Optimization is not worth
eulerscheZahl: copying the state array at each expansion step
Thyl: with my minimax sometimes with ID I go to depth 14
eulerscheZahl: i get somewhere in the range of 150k-200k nodes that I visit
jacek: my 'depth' isnt comparable as i use best-first rather than brute-forcing
jacek: do you have smart eval?
eulerscheZahl: is that some special vocabulary I should know?
jacek: i bet its from http://www.joansala.com/auale/strategy/en/
eulerscheZahl: found a scoring on some website, fail to find it again
eulerscheZahl: yes, that's it :D
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello
Thyl: I think I have a stuck eval
Thyl: I want to implement a hash function
Thyl: a or an hash funtion ???
JData31: "a"
Thyl: sorry french accent
JData31: Wee
Thyl: in french H isn't speak
TheBlueBias: Parmentier is a good hash.
Scarfield: in french you dont pronounce "s" as last letter right? so "hash" would just be "a"?
Thyl: yes
TheBlueBias: No
Scarfield: xD
TheBlueBias: sh is pronounced...
Thyl: it's the same hash or ash
TheBlueBias: Scashfield
Scarfield: LeBlueBia
Thyl: yes
jacek: i live in spain. the s is silent
Scarfield: lol
Thyl: jacek
Thyl: las niños
Thyl: s is present
Thyl: I have Spanish to my school
TheBlueBias: i eñor
jacek: uhm
jacek: carfield, explain the joke to him
Scarfield: spain - s
Thyl: oooo
Scarfield: :)
Thyl: ok I understand
Thyl: I have 2 years of english
Thyl: don't joke with the letters :D
Thyl: and is los niños sorry
eulerscheZahl: you only started to learn English 2 years ago?
Thyl: Yes
eulerscheZahl: then you are doing astonishingly well
Scarfield: +1
Thyl: Thx
Scarfield: 2 year old english children cant even spell
TheBlueBias: :no_mouth:
Thyl: I ahve 13 years old,
Thyl: I have two years of ENglish
Thyl: ;)
jacek: in basement?
jacek: :scream:
Thyl: no
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello
TheBlueBias: All your basement are belong to us!
Thyl: I'm 13 years old
Thyl: I'm so tired And in Frecnh is ~ "I have 13 years old"
Thyl: in the idea
Thyl: eulerscheZahl now 27 is me
Thyl: :)
eulerscheZahl: i'm not 27, already reached the 30 :older_man:
eulerscheZahl: from now on it's only going downhill
Thyl: I have a hasher function
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello, Bonjour, Ciao
jacek: :tada:
Thyl: but I don't know if it's a good hash function
Thyl: https://codeshare.io/lokOwg
TheBlueBias: HARRYPOTTERFANATIC I think your time turner is broken.
Thyl: eulerscheZahl Will you do the Fall CHallenge ?
TheBlueBias: ...
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: TheBlueBias Lol
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Maybe
eulerscheZahl: no, i'll pass on the next contest
eulerscheZahl: the first since The Accountant in 2016 that I'm missing
jacek: oO
TheBlueBias: You're not going to participate to spring challenge 2022?
eulerscheZahl: depends on the type of contest
Thyl: A codechef contest ??? :P
eulerscheZahl: i have some contests lined up to play
eulerscheZahl: Kotlin heroes on Oct 7th
jacek: :ketchup:
eulerscheZahl: then 2021 ICPC Communication Routing Challenge: Marathon (oct 9th-12th)
eulerscheZahl: Reply Cybersecurity Challenge 2021
Oct 15th
eulerscheZahl: on the 13th topcoder hosts a marathon for 7 days but collides with Reply :(
eulerscheZahl: they finally messaged me to claim my tshirt from TCO 2021
Thyl: Do you have a great ranking in contest for the same of TopCoder
Thyl: ???
eulerscheZahl: i'm not that good on topcoder
eulerscheZahl: they have those short rounds (2-3h contests) where i'm horrible
TheBlueBias: eulerscheZahl can you sahre the links for reply and topcoder?
eulerscheZahl: and the marathons (7days+) were i'm somewhat ok
eulerscheZahl: it's both on clist
eulerscheZahl: marathon will show up here:
eulerscheZahl: https://www.topcoder.com/challenges?bucket=openForRegistration&tracks[DS]=true&types[]=CH&types[]=F2F
eulerscheZahl: (copy the whole thing, chat fails to detect the link)
TheBlueBias: Oh right. I forgot this...
eulerscheZahl: https://challenges.reply.com/tamtamy/challenge/75/detail
TheBlueBias: Thx
eulerscheZahl: it's a team event. 24h for 25 tasks
eulerscheZahl: team of 2-4
TheBlueBias: Erf.
eulerscheZahl: tasks are about coding, crypto, some web related stuff
eulerscheZahl: 5 tasks per category
jacek: i finally learned to use struct instead of class with all public things
eulerscheZahl: last year I mostly managed to solve the coding part
eulerscheZahl: Tobou will be happy to hear that
jacek: hm?
eulerscheZahl: using struct...
jacek: mhm
darthinvader666: yo
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello
SandmanSW96: hey all
HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hi
SandmanSW96: hey euler, is there a suggestion box page here?
jacek: go to /dev/null
SandmanSW96: the url?
eulerscheZahl: forum I would say
what do you want to suggest
jacek: hmmm ok...
jacek: or discord
eulerscheZahl: maybe it has been suggested before and was refused or will be done eventually
SandmanSW96: oh yeah the forum i can look, but i was thinking,
SandmanSW96: what if commented characters weren't counted in clash of code golfing?
SandmanSW96: I use c# and still try, i know i will lose lol but its good practice to learn short hand, so, since i am almost guaranteed to lose lol,
eulerscheZahl: unlike to happen. one just does not write comments in golf
SandmanSW96: i dont shorten my code into one line, i try to break it up into each section
jacek: or use c# for golf...
SandmanSW96: i can just eat the extra chars,
eulerscheZahl: it's also not as trivial as you might think
SandmanSW96: but i break up my code into segments,
SandmanSW96: and i would like to label them for anyone to see what they do
eulerscheZahl: x=2; // \u000A x=3;
System.out.println(x);
eulerscheZahl: what does this print?
SandmanSW96: 2
eulerscheZahl: in Java
SandmanSW96: er 3
eulerscheZahl: yes it's 3
eulerscheZahl: that unicode \u000A is a newline
eulerscheZahl: and the compiler replaces this first before applying the comment
SandmanSW96: yeah i was trying to figure out that heiroglyphic
SandmanSW96: but thanks though, i'll just eat the extra chars, my clash points are always close to max anyways lol
eulerscheZahl: c# just isn't the right language for golf (will get better with C#9)
jacek: 2 1 7 3...
jacek: or 2137? :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: 2.718
Mehmetvv: hello?_
jacek: hi!
olaf_surgut: the next fall challange will be the coding escape room?
olaf_surgut: what a surprise
jacek: oO
jacek: open the door, get on the floor, everypony walk the dinosaur ~
TheBlueBias: Can I have some?
CodeKing45: hey guys I got a question about the temperatures exercise? the directions are vague or at least seem to be. am I supposed to answer only in console.log or do i have to set up an "if" iterator first?
jacek: write answer into console.log
TheBlueBias: You're supposed to output the good answer. You can do what you want with the default code. Even delete it and write yours.
CodeKing45: ah thanks
CodeKing45: one more question. by playing with the console only what is this supposed to teach me/
TheBlueBias: Console only ?
jacek: you can interact with the puzzle only with i/o (take input, print output to console)
jacek: some puzzle can have nice visuals
jacek: coming from javascript world, using console only seems unnatural eh
CodeKing45: can i play with n?
jacek: n?
jacek: oh, temperatures. this is number of temperatures provided by puzzle's test case. dunno what you mean by playing with it
CodeKing45: oh i see now. its a function
CodeKing45: nevermind
SandroB07: https://escape.codingame.com/game-session/kKu-jBA-Gpj-5d2
SandroB07: https://escape.codingame.com/game-session/kKu-jBA-Gpj-5d2
jacek: :scream:
Uljahn: SandroB07: pls don't spam invites here
GruelingPine185: hi
miszu: hey all, I reached 57th in the 2048 optimization. I am hitting a bottleneck in my optimization as I don't know where should I improve. Anyone willing to discuss in DM?
jacek: nice
miszu: seed = seed * seed % 50515093L;
why this line works well in IDE but in visual studio it gives me negative value as if it was an overflow?
jacek: is seed int64_t?
miszu: it is a long
miszu: in both places
jacek: try long long
miszu: jacek jestes geniuszem!
miszu: it works
TheBlueBias: 32bits PC ?
miszu: 64 bits
jacek: personally i use int64_t uint64_t etc.
miszu: but I guess there is a default thingy in visual studio
jacek: long is at least 32bit, not always 64
TheBlueBias: True. But in modern architecture it's generaly the case...
TheBlueBias: MS... :smirk:
miszu: I find it sad that my code online has a better score than offline if I let it run until reaching best state... I am using beam search in both cases
struct: well sometimes a bad move may end up being good
miszu: I am using 4100 as beam size so you can see 6 moves ahead
struct: are you using nth_element?
miszu: also not sure if my heuristic is ideal
miszu: so I sort my open list based on heuristic then select 4100 best nodes
struct: you use sort or nth_element?
miszu: sort yes
struct: nth_element will be faster in this case
miszu: sort(open_list.begin(), open_list.end(), high_score_key()); // sort by best score.
vector<Beam_Node>::iterator begin = open_list.begin();
vector<Beam_Node>::iterator end = open_list.begin() + min(BEAM_SIZE, (int) open_list.size());
vector<Beam_Node> beam_list(begin, end);
miszu: I will check nth element
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/5fa2cc35-ef36-4041-9ef7-54eea84cf511
CodeKing45: what math is temperatures using? i change i in let =... and i get random integers but always the same. i log -10 and it comes out 6 instead of 5 for example
struct: miszu also msvc sort might be different from gcc
CodeKing45: console.log(n)
CodeKing45: let i = -10
CodeKing45: what math is this thing using.
jacek: the normal math :v
CodeKing45: the only test that worked so far is zero
miszu: ok I will try nth element
miszu: also, when taking n elements, do you take by best score or by lowest # of turns?
CodeKing45: i am just trying everything to see what works. so far the only one that works is 0 for let i = 0
jacek: do you understand how loops work?
CodeKing45: yes. what I don't understand is how it is being calculated or iterated
CodeKing45: how THIS is being calculated
darkhorse64: miszu, if you're doing bs, each node has the same # of turns
CodeKing45: nevermind. I will solve this on my own
Astrobytes: CodeKing45: post your code, easier to help you
CodeKing45: this is the code that works
CodeKing45: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/cedc4c9b-ba45-4e33-bee7-9708a9350665
CodeKing45: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/d2f31a21-c87c-4649-b18a-1c0117d73cc2
miszu: darkhorse64 yeah using beam search
miszu: so sorting by heuristic is fine when chosing n beams?
Astrobytes: CodeKing45: it auto pastebins
darkhorse64: yep, this is also what I do for 2048 but I hit a barrier
darkhorse64: Can really explain why but I see long before the end that I am not going to score more than 25M. If you look at the lb, there is a huge gap
jacek:
Oups
An error occurred (#314): "Submitted code is too big".
jacek: $#@$@#$@#$!!!!
Astrobytes: Fix your compression
Uljahn: import lzma [solved]
miszu: anyone who implements beam search, do you use two arrays (one for open and other for the beam) or you are able to do all in one array?
KINGOFBIGBOIMEME: SUS
Jess316: @LemonZ can you explain this to me I am new here
LemonZ: explain what?
KingZumbie: hello
KingZumbie: bruh I am doing the descent but keep crashing on stronger mountains 1
KingZumbie: I think I found the solution
KingZumbie: I have to hit 1 two times or three
KingZumbie: Yup I cleared it
KingZumbie: Used this code to do it
KingZumbie: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/884720d1-4bd0-4d94-8cb0-db57cc21c03b
KingZumbie: simple print function
Wontonimo: hey
KingZumbie: hi
Wontonimo: you can't solve it that way because the validation test has the hills in a different location
Wontonimo: you need to write code to *find* the highest value and print it
KingZumbie: I just let the course run and whichever mountains the ship crashed on I putted in the print function for that number of index
Wontonimo: yeah, that's not going to solve the problem
KingZumbie: Well Id oit my way
KingZumbie: I do it*
KingZumbie: I ain't planning to work on some big project for the public coding is just a hooby for me
KingZumbie: hobby*
Wontonimo: how is your way going to pass ALL test cases?
KingZumbie: Bruv I ain't planning on doing all of them
Wontonimo: bruh
KingZumbie: And I learned more HTMl and CSS rather then a other coding language
KingZumbie: why do you think my way is not so good :/
Wontonimo: look at this code
Wontonimo: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a01c46f5-8e62-4465-9e0e-35d8b90a5233
Wontonimo: it works for ALL the test cases
Wontonimo: it doesn't have the answer hard coded. it does what a program should do, which is calculate things for you and automate things.
TheBlueBias: Yeah! GG Wontonimo! You shared the solution!
Wontonimo: I think I won't get banned for this one
Wontonimo: maybe scolded, but not banned. (hoping)
eulerscheZahl: BAN!
Wontonimo: (tears of something)
Wontonimo: :wave:
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/7415a2625a37d9f38e79f609ad77244e7a88
an extremely easy puzzle. but not even a bad one
TheBlueBias: Yeah! Let's share solutions! We don't care to
Wontonimo: hey TheBlueBias, I haven't seen you before
eulerscheZahl: it's BlaiseEbuth
Wontonimo: ah
Wontonimo: so many alt accounts ...
TheBlueBias: Lier. :neutral_face:
Wontonimo: mine is pretty obvious, antiwonto
TheBlueBias: That's not an alt
Wontonimo: it's a test account
TheBlueBias: neither
Wontonimo: don't do much with it other than look at the beginning of a multi that I no longer have access to
Wontonimo: that's a pretty cool contribution Olivier made
eulerscheZahl: idea for a part 2: don't give the user clear rules (red=bad), only tell after each event by changing a score. so the player has to understand the rules in code
DoubleOracle: when would the volcanoes puzzle count as solved for the puzzle of the week achievement?
