magus2: I think the 'X egg problem' is probably wrong from reading about the 2 egg problem on the internet.
Husoski: magus2 What's wrong about it?
magus2: I'll look into it further, but a site indicated that a 100 floor 2 egg problem would be 14, where the 'x egg problem' indicated that a 50 floor 2 egg problem would take 14. I'm sure that these two cases should have different results, so one of them is wrong.
magus2: nevermind, seems to be fine.
KOOHOLATESEN: how can i run a puzzle game i joined this website recently and don't know anything
TimothyAlexisVass: https://www.codingame.com/training
KOOHOLATESEN: thanks
Justin-Truong: hi
Justin-Truong: guys
Justin-Truong: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/198179008ae77cd400a8825bb7f0d5fd52558af
Justin-Truong: join my clash?
Justin-Truong: pls
Justin-Truong: I want to finish the quest
Justin-Truong: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/198179008ae77cd400a8825bb7f0d5fd52558af
Justin-Truong: hello
Justin-Truong: guys
Justin-Truong: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/198179008ae77cd400a8825bb7f0d5fd52558af
ash15khng: just join public clashes
Justin-Truong: no
Justin-Truong: I want to finish quest
BlaiseEbuth: No quest require to do private clashs.
BlaiseEbuth: ANd don't spam
Justin-Truong: quest require private right?
Justin-Truong: plz join me
Justin-Truong: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/19818150c3a57bb5fa16de73e938d5e23300e8a
BlaiseEbuth: Stop
Uljahn: private clashes do not count i think
Justin-Truong: I count
Justin-Truong: it
Uljahn: for clash invites use #clash
Justin-Truong: ok thanks
DimitrisLamprinos: hey guys, how do i enable vim mode in the editor
Uljahn: should be in the settings on the left side bar
AntiSquid: oh the usual clash spam, no convos, what's up Automaton2000 ?
Automaton2000: is there a way to use my own even if i have a list of available moves
ProCoder03: Hello everyone !!
jacek: haooy Caturday
el-musleh: Hi all, How I can check people answers after #ClashOfCode match for same question?
ash15khng: click view code next to their name at the clash complete page
mrrobot-caretaker: hi what's up?
mrrobot-caretaker: how i can join html
mrrobot-caretaker: clash
el-musleh: I can view other's code, but we are not solving the same game.
M0H07ED: I think there should be enhancement in clash of code particularly in smallest code challenge which does not assume the different in syntax between programming languages (like there is a big difference between python and c)
Westicles: CoC is the first exposure for many young folks here to how unjust and frightening the world can be. Moderators are trained to help you through this crisis
Arison: yo where could i report a error in one of the practice exercise?
jacek: what error
69razer69: lol
Mentos24: lele
Arison: already solved
armalitedev: ey
struct: hi
ErrorCookie: I want ot get the surrounding fields in a 2d array. I have working code in javascript for it but it'd be interesting to hear how you would go about that.
ErrorCookie: When I try to do this I end up with tons of if chains because of the corner and edge cells in an array
struct: is it similar to floodfill?
struct: I guess you can do something like this ErrorCookie
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b59f743d-28cd-4047-9d2b-01571acb74c2
ErrorCookie: I'm a bit confused what exactly does this code do
struct: it checks for each direction
struct: up, down, right, left
struct: its not the entire code
struct: just a part of it
ErrorCookie: how can I send pastebins like you did before?
struct: just paste it here
ErrorCookie: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/75180622-ddce-4b0c-b445-69b03204b03b
ErrorCookie: This is what I did when I did a game of life challenge
ErrorCookie: It performs an action on every 8 cells surrounding a cell
ErrorCookie: But with this I have 4 nested loops
ErrorCookie: I wouldnt call it performant
struct: if you have a 2d array with each direction possible
struct: like I have in my code
struct: but on my code is only 4 directions
ErrorCookie: Your code uses an array with array[4][2]
raizbro: hi
struct: yes 2d array
raizbro: that no good who kik me
ErrorCookie: but 4 2 has a width or height of 2
raizbro: oh
ErrorCookie: so you can either go left or right but not both
ErrorCookie: from the current cell
raizbro: i knoo the anwser
ErrorCookie: enlighten us .(^_^).
raizbro: no
ErrorCookie: :O
Astrobytes: you again
struct: 4 directions with x and y change
struct: so 1st direction is right
struct: because x increases by 1 and y doesnt increase
ErrorCookie: Yes I just understood dirs means possible directions I thought dirs was the array you perform the surrounding search on
struct: because its 0
ErrorCookie: whoops
struct: it allows you to check all the surrounding cells of the cell you are currently checking
ErrorCookie: Now I understand it it's pretty simple xD
ErrorCookie: Thank you!
struct: np
jacek: :tada:
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: WSP
derjack: uwu
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: UwU
struct: I think the minimax is working now
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: ????
Wontonimo: and did you do negamax or minmax?
jacek: struct do you find 1st player has some advantage?
struct: minmax Wontonimo
struct: no idea jacek my bot is not good enough
struct: black seems to have an advantage
struct: from the paper
Wontonimo: minmax is just so much more code though. For Tron, I started with negamax. It worked great for 4 players, because each player just tried to maximize their move. There was no "nega" but instead a point-of-view-max, which for 2 players is just nega-max
Wontonimo: povmax - I'm trademarking it
Wontonimo: ;)
Astrobytes: that's MaxN isn't it?
Wontonimo: do you have a link for maxN ? maybe, I haven't heard about that
struct: Now I need to figure out transposition tables
Astrobytes: kinda busy rn, but google should throw up a fair number of papers iirc
saberscientist: hi
struct: hi
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: Hi
abt8601: Hi
jacek:
struct: finally i won a game vs ludii
jacek: manually?
struct: my bot beat it
BlaiseEbuth: I can solve complex equations in less than 1 sec.
My pc can.
struct: well if you are the one who wrote it you are still the one who solved it
BlaiseEbuth: Bot slavery! Intelectual property theft!
BlaiseEbuth: Automaton2000 riot!
Automaton2000: so i gave up on it
BlaiseEbuth: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
jacek: oO
MSmits: struct which game are you working on?
struct: lines of action
struct: darkhorse ported it
MSmits: ohhh cool, is it released or stil wip?
struct: wip
MSmits: and how do you fight against ludii?
jacek: badly
MSmits: i meant the descriptive how, not the qualitative how :P
struct: i just did it manually
struct: I think its possible to connect the bot though
MSmits: oh ok
struct: But I would need to create a java file to connect to the c++ process
struct: But lines of action ai is not very strong there
struct: They only check for mid control
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: How is everyone today
MSmits: good, quiet day, doing a bit of work
Kawaii-san_Shadow_Wolf: fun
struct: have you finished your yavalath bot MSmits?
MSmits: yeah it's working, but I am redoing the book
MSmits: going to be better than before. Hopefully more robust
MSmits: so no NN's can come in and beat me with the same game over and over :)
jacek: :scream:
MSmits: I am also still hoping to solve another move beyond the center 7. Not sure it's possible but would be cool
jacek: reaching for turing award eh
MSmits: if there was ever a good achievement for receiving that it would be solving a yavalath starting move :P
struct: what would you do to avoid same game?
MSmits: eh, i would just win them :P
struct: have multiple replies to the same position?
MSmits: other than that, not much i can do
MSmits: I am locally running the meta mcts with room for 100k moves in the bot. I am just hoping that it's enough to skip all traps and poor early moves and just win every game :)
MSmits: bot is better, but not better than a NN obviously
MSmits: so far just 700 moves in the new book, old bot had like 2k
struct: still far from 100k
MSmits: yeah, so i am mostly limited by local calc time
MSmits: I also just like the idea of, at some point, using all those solved gamestates and training a NN with supervised
MSmits: the longer i leave it running, the more of those i have
MSmits: but mostly, I am just busy with work, so this is just a quick diversion from it, every once in a while. Checking how the meta mcts is doing, it's relaxing
jacek: now we need your meta mcts power to determine the loa 1st player advantage
MSmits: mmh is there no literature about this?
MSmits: this is a famous game isnt it?
jacek: struct says black player has some advantage
MSmits: black is 1st?
MSmits: best thing you can do is check the tournament rules
MSmits: if they implement pie rule or some such, it can be put in our version as well
jacek: could be its negligible, like in chess. you dont see pie rule in chess eh
MSmits: nope, but loa seems simpler. The simpler a game, the more problematic it usually is when one side has an advantage
jacek: https://dke.maastrichtuniversity.nl/m.winands/documents/Analysis%20and%20Implementation.pdf
jacek: hmm has some tips on move generation
MSmits: nice!
MSmits: lol
MSmits: try to read page 8
MSmits: btw this is a special document because this is Winands master thesis
jacek: hopefully it doesnt have pseudo code
MSmits: hah
MSmits: hopefully :)
MSmits: he has good ideas though
MSmits: 10^24 state space complexity is very small
MSmits: comparable to uttt and checkers and such
MSmits: and othello
jacek: so, when do you solve it
MSmits: too busy with Y :)
MSmits: basically this game is only solvable if you can do some clever pruning. Like they did in checkers
MSmits: checkers also had endgame db, this game doesnt, so probably too hard
struct: it doenst have pseudo code no
struct: im still trying to understand the move gen part
MSmits: seems complicated to generate moves in this game
struct: I feel like my way is too slow
MSmits: you think every way is too slow :)
struct: its hard to say when I have nothing to bench against
MSmits: true
MSmits: make up different ways to do it
jacek: ludii :v
jacek: or ask that guy for the MIA
struct: yeah ludii that takes 1 sec for depth 5
struct: guess mine is already 100x faster
struct: I can optimize it but ill have the same problem
struct: ill be stuck in the eval like always
jacek: eval. is it some too peasant concept for me to understand?
struct: are you already doing NN?
jacek: not this one yet, and not soon
jacek: i have other NN stuff to do
struct: any cg game?
jacek: not particular
jacek: trying to improve my learning framework overall
jacek: from january 2012 https://xkcd.com/1002/
PatrickMcGinnisII: 7 minutes in heaven...keepin my mouth shut
struct: :confused:
PatrickMcGinnisII: bender4 is such a pain
PatrickMcGinnisII: gtg glhf
struct: cya
eulerscheZahl: what's wrong with bender?
jacek: triggered
eulerscheZahl: straight forward BFS. it was never intended to be hard to solve 100% correct :(
eulerscheZahl: but a lot of players seem to struggle with it
jacek: its optim
eulerscheZahl: https://forum.codingame.com/t/community-puzzle-bender-episode-4/84756/26
that's pretty much exactly my expected solution
struct: ony 900k states, time to brute force it
eulerscheZahl: that's what I did to generate the random maps as well
eulerscheZahl: make sure that the solution is complex enough but existing
eulerscheZahl: had to run it for maybe half an hour until i had enough testcases
jacek: back to that xkcd, calvinball sounds perfect for muzero :v
MSmits: bender is a great puzzle, no matter what you intended eulerscheZahl, it is exactly as hard as it should be
MSmits: i enjoyed it a lot
MSmits: even had a student that solved it. I told him the algorithm though, but he coded it himself
MSmits: o it's late euler is asleep already :)
AllYourTrees: omg
jacek: hm?
MSmits: :scream_cat:
AllYourTrees: someones been spam submitting again to my benefit on C4 :D
jacek: oO
Samzok123: hi
struct: hi
flipped_a_bit: anybody know a case that would fail test #7 of the super computer puzzle but pass the other 8?
Stilgart: do you use 64-bit integers ?
Uljahn: could be a timeout because of inefficient algorithm / data structures
flipped_a_bit: I'm in rust, and using pointer-sized ints
flipped_a_bit: (usually 64, but it depends on the host machine)
Stilgart: (should be 64 on CG)
flipped_a_bit: and I get a real error message, so its not a timeout: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/37367e26-c2d8-452a-a98a-f1d2e3981180
flipped_a_bit: that did my paste weird
Uljahn: it's intended
Stilgart: then, your code returns the wrong value
flipped_a_bit: yeah, I can't find a shorter example that helps me narrow down the problem... i've scanned through the 99999 values, but there's only so much attention I can give to that many haha
Uljahn: probably infamous off-by-one error or something similar, we can only guess
Uljahn: btw have you read the discussion thread?
MetaPerfect: hi everyone. Can we see debug information on failed validators after submitting a solution?
I'm trying my luck at Binary Extension and am trying to understand/debug the weird failing behavior
struct: I can give you the validator if you want
struct: and then you can play it on ide
MetaPerfect: that would be great!
MetaPerfect: I just joined the Discord channel, in case it helps
struct: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/43687cd854d10e38c3716e6d08efe735b42f
struct: press test in ide
struct: you should have access to all validators
MetaPerfect: ty 👍
struct: np
MetaPerfect: wow, "Four goals, bomb at center" is really hard to solve optimally with predicting those bombs
struct: is iterative deepening on minimax basicly keep searching while you have time and increase depth, and then keep the best move of the highest depth completed?
struct: like search minimax(1), minimax(2) ... until you have no time
YurkovAS: Oo, i'm wined derjack with mcts 1 time :smile:
struct: YurkovAS EPT?
YurkovAS: 10 random moves and after ept
YurkovAS: game updated: 150 max turns, 150ms
struct: my current submit is also mcts
struct: mcts with solver
struct: ept depth 3
struct: random moves too
struct: getting moves is very expensive right?
YurkovAS: with avx? :smile:
YurkovAS: yes, very slow
struct: no avx
struct: i still have to improve eval
struct: ill probably also use minimax instead of mcts
struct: I tried avx on wincheck but it was slower
struct: havent tried on getMoves
SandmanSW96: hey,
SandmanSW96: is there any way to get that giant black box to STOP popping up while i'm trying to code in the ide?
Uljahn: you mean Language Assist?
struct: also YurkovAS do you use solver?
struct: my mcts can solve depth 3, but minimax seems to be doing way better in this case
YurkovAS: struct yes, my also solve depth 2-3
SandmanSW96: not the one that suggest code, the huge black rectangle that offers too friggin many suggestions every time yo type something other than punctionation. the damn thing pops up and blocks half my code
YurkovAS: minimax is hard for pro level usage: transposition table, zobrist, iter deeping with reuse previous statistics (moves order or only one best move)
struct: depth 3 is 3 plys right?
YurkovAS: 3 plays: my, op, my
struct: ok so its similar
YurkovAS: classic solver
struct: still I dont feel like this is a mcts game
struct: I read a paper that used it though
struct: They recommended depth 3 EPT
struct: But they probably have a very good eval
YurkovAS: i'm like what i can test in ide vs previous best bot. for c4 it not worked...
YurkovAS: in local pc IDE: similar to brutal tester
struct: yeah
struct: I never tested connect 4 locally
struct: Due to that reason
struct: I tested breakthrough but I had to test it vs multiple versions
Astrobytes: I strongly believe this is a minimax game, but with what Yurkov said (and I said before)
Astrobytes: I am happy to be proven wrong.
struct: also transposition tables will help a lot here
struct: I never tried to add transposition tables on the rollout
struct: dont even know if its a thing
Astrobytes: I never used TT with MCTS
Astrobytes: It is but it's a bit different to the alphabeta version
struct: ill try to learn it
struct: for minimax
struct: I found this code which seems decent enough to guide me
struct: https://github.com/AdamStelmaszczyk/gtsa/blob/master/cpp/gtsa.hpp#L372
Astrobytes: OK for minimax (I usually say alphabeta because straight minimax is useless)
Astrobytes: Iterative deepening
Astrobytes: Order moves at each depth in that loop to prioritise the best one from the last depth
Astrobytes: You can also order moves with a quick eval
Astrobytes: (Apply, eval, score, undo)
Astrobytes: Forget all the other stuff until you get that all working smoothly
struct: So I should store the moves from previous depths
struct: makes sense
Astrobytes: Sure. You can keep the best moves, score the moves, keep the principal variation, etc etc. chessprogrammingwiki thingy is your friend for a bunch of this stuff
struct: my Tic Tac Toe will become unstoppable
struct: oh I see that tric trac also joined the game
mr.bossman: heh i just relised im rank 807 in oc
mr.bossman: coc
struct: nice
Astrobytes: I was wondering when tric was gonna appear
saberscientist: hm
Justin-Truong: hi
Justin-Truong: wow in codingame some testcase is hard to understadn
mr.bossman: yup
Justin-Truong: like reverse
mr.bossman: yeah some are realy dumb
saberscientist: reverse is a nightmare
saberscientist: 95% of the time you get beaten by people who have already seen the problem
Justin-Truong: yeah
Justin-Truong: when you try the coc alot
Justin-Truong: many problem will comeback
mr.bossman: heh i have only had a dupe once
Justin-Truong: decimal what is this
Justin-Truong: some of this kinda hard
mr.bossman: well i have only ben playing for a couple of days
Justin-Truong: nice
Minh19040318: hi
vedantiscool2010: hi
BobTheBuilder888: hellooo
vedantiscool2010: hellow
BobTheBuilder888: hru
vedantiscool2010: hi
vedantiscool2010: can you help
BobTheBuilder888: sure
vedantiscool2010: yea
BobTheBuilder888: im not that good at coding though
vedantiscool2010: oh ok
vedantiscool2010: its fine
BobTheBuilder888: just matters what you need help on?
vedantiscool2010: the Descent
BobTheBuilder888: im still working on that. sorry.
BobTheBuilder888: imma go anyways bye
flipped_a_bit: i might can help
vedantiscool2010: do you have discord
vedantiscool2010: ok
flipped_a_bit: no, but there's private chat in here
vedantiscool2010: flipped_a_bit
flipped_a_bit: what's your question?
FakeLoremIpsum_b6c6: \
THE DESCENT
doofgod: I feel like hill is very ill-defined
flipped_a_bit: well, there are 8 of them every time, and you need to figure out which one is the highest
vedantiscool2010: how old are you
flipped_a_bit: 23
vedantiscool2010: do you wanna know
vedantiscool2010: me 10
flipped_a_bit: it's cool you are learning to code so young, i didn't start till i was 17
flipped_a_bit: although, if you don't have a specific question about a problem with Descent, I'm gonna head to bed lol
vedantiscool2010: me love coading
vedantiscool2010: ok bye
KOOHOLATESEN: how can i run a puzzle game i joined this website recently and don't know anything
