xxd: oof, it doesnt work on Cross
xxd: fixed^
xxd: is it possible to do Mars Lander with MC, or must it be done with GA?
Uljahn: it's possible to do Mars Lander with plain PID
KiwiTae: i did ml3 with simple pid without checking the physics
xxd: wow
xxd: 100%?
KiwiTae: yes but didnt get the extra achievment yet
xxd: I need to read up on PID
xxd: the extent of my knowledge about PID controllers right now is "-3v == good" :joy:
KiwiTae: i lend one test with 0fuel lol
xxd: at least you pass it :)
KiwiTae: yea hehe
ProCoder03: @wontonimo usually keeps on saying to use 25v in Mars lander 2
xxd: :o
**michaellan writes that down
ProCoder03: Wait !! how do you guys do the 2nd statement, can you share the format for it pls. ?
xxd: mars lander?
ProCoder03: Nahh...
michaellan: not sure what you mean then
ProCoder03: that " * xxd writes that down" one
ProCoder03: Is it just a * b4 message
ProCoder03: ??
**KiwiTae lala
KiwiTae: "/me + msg"
**ProCoder03 I just tried
ProCoder03: Its working !!
ProCoder03: Thanks @KiwiTae
KiwiTae: there is a ? button bottom r corner of the chat you got all the cmds there
ProCoder03: ohhh... I just now realized there is a button down there :sweat_smile:
**xxd slaps ProCoder03 around a bit with a large fishbot
xxd: the heck is a fishbot
eulerscheZahl: this is a coding site, you should know what a bot is
xxd: yeah but fishbot...
**xxd slaps eulerscheZahl with a large (300LOC) MCTSbot
xxd: :)
eulerscheZahl: it's a bot for fishy adventure
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/CodinGame/game-fishy-adventures
eulerscheZahl: here's a screenshot of it: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/25775/codingame-sdk-documentation/create-an-optimization-game
JLasfdgh: ii
xxd: wholesome fishbot
eulerscheZahl: somehow that puzzle never got released
eulerscheZahl: wouldn't be a good optim (your fish can only go up and down while always moving 1 to the right)
eulerscheZahl: but the optimal solution can be found with some dynamic programming, would do an okay puzzle
xxd: ah
xxd: is there an obvious reason im unaware of why poker variants arent a game on codingame?
xxd: is it the luck aspect
xxd: or maybe the trolling aspect i guess, which would prevent any sort of betting games from being viable
eulerscheZahl: probably that and that no one bothered creating such a game
eulerscheZahl: but i wouldn't be happy if someone did
xxd: why?
eulerscheZahl: because of the luck aspect you mentioned
eulerscheZahl: it might be fun to play for humans (for some at least). but those bot fights should have a clear hierarchy of who's best
eulerscheZahl: there is some rock-paper-scissors going on. but not completely random
xxd: yeah true
xxd: are you a university student?
eulerscheZahl: i graduated as a Master in 2018
xxd: oh nice
eulerscheZahl: afk for breakfast
xxd: how popular is simulated annealing? Haven't seen it mentioned much. GA seems a lot more talked about
eulerscheZahl: here on CG it's not that popular. On Topcoder it's pretty common
eulerscheZahl: Topcoder organizes optimization contests regularly
xxd: alright thanks
xxd: good night, and have a good day
eulerscheZahl: timezones... good night
jacek: happy Caturday
eulerscheZahl: that too
jrke: its caturday!
martinpapa69: :cat2:
dmin: hello!
J[]HN_WICK: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/19152177f3fee02a89c0bb721763ab754d5e960
martinpapa69: what you just did mister, is illegal
eulerscheZahl: :hammer:
Thyl: hi !
jacek: good morning
dmin: good morning!
tekki: hello world
tekki: one word automaton2000
Automaton2000: then i dont know the answer to life, the universe and everything
3283415: 👽️
PaarthThePro: :santa:
Mikel-Dev: 42?
heloche: hello, is someone hiring c++ dev ?
heloche: I only cost 200k/year
eulerscheZahl: Euros?
Westicles: rupees
eulerscheZahl: the profile says France. That speaks for Euros
eulerscheZahl: the "only" on the other hand does not
eulerscheZahl: i'm not hiring, i'm employed myself.
it's unlikely that you'll find a job here on this chat. Just as a hint: your main selling point should be your skills, not your low salary ;)
MSmits: is it weird I thought of legend of zelda when Westicles said rupees. I never realized that is an actual currency :P
Pi3.14: Besides condingame, where can i practice and improve my programming skills?
eulerscheZahl: what do you think they use to pay bills in India?
eulerscheZahl: there are tons of websites. if you want to go in the direction of clashes/puzzles
eulerscheZahl: codeforces.com
hackerrank.com
atcoder.[forgot the TLD]
eulerscheZahl: codechef.com
eulerscheZahl: projecteuler.net (more math problems)
Pi3.14: i'm already on my 4th year in bscs but I think I don't have enough skills to become a programmer
eulerscheZahl: there's even a list of current and upcoming contests: https://clist.by/
Pi3.14: okay thanks for the suggestions eulerscheZahl :)
eulerscheZahl: well, becoming a programmer and those puzzle sites are 2 different things. they are both about coding
eulerscheZahl: but for the puzzles you just rush something to get a green checkmark
eulerscheZahl: professional work is more about readable code that you can extend at a later point. using design patterns that other developers can understand
jacek: so is agile programming
eulerscheZahl: using common frameworks and not just the language itself
Pi3.14: Noted, thank you. :)
ProCoder03: how to add elements to certain index in a empty list in py ???
Alfredb: You can't. The list must be big enough
Alfredb: You could initialise a list with for example 10 zeros with `a=[0]*10`
ProCoder03: Thanks @Alfredb !!
eulerscheZahl: or you use a dictionary if you only want to use a few indices
ProCoder03: :thumps_up:
ProCoder03: *:thumbsup:
MSmits: well, apparently they use zelda-money eulerscheZahl :P
jacek: zelda, that green guy?
**jacek hides
ProCoder03: Is Mayan Calculation similar to ascii arts ??
Hunter64TheOne: ils sont ou les paramètres d'heure, ici ?
Hunter64TheOne: excuse me
Hunter64TheOne:
they are or the time settings, here?
eulerscheZahl: deepl from Fr to En sounds more understandable. Do you want to change your timezone?
Hunter64TheOne: yes
eulerscheZahl: i assume it takes some system time that it gets from the browser
eulerscheZahl: at least I don't find it at https://www.codingame.com/settings
Rob022: Trump is coming back 🤣
Svat623: :tumbler_glass::cucumber:
Westicles: Southampton, eh? I use to visit Titchfield regularly, lovely country out there
AntiSquid: Rob022 coming back to what? same circus different clowns lol
jacek: eulerscheZahl crazy gibberish?
Rob022: Who knows lol
eulerscheZahl: did jacek just call me crazy glibberish?
Rob022: FIGHT
Rob022: 1v1 bro down
jacek: refering to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwODwwgE6rA
jacek: [legit link]
eulerscheZahl: ah, i remember that scene
AntiSquid: sounded like french version of rickroll to me ...
TobiasA: RIP french
dmin: clash of code is kinda like leetcode easy, right?
AntiSquid: you didn't do much on leetcode did you ?
eulerscheZahl: leetcode is significantly harder than clashes
eulerscheZahl: and leetcode is only like fastest mode. no golfing or reverse tasks
dmin: thanks for the insight
seshoumara: how can I disable the bash assistant? I do "read n" then enter, it puts some random word begining with n, stupid.
eulerscheZahl: use an offline editor. that's all you can do to disable it
Uljahn: to disable the assistant i blocked lsp-community.codingame.com via umatrix addon (also could be done via hosts file)
seshoumara: thank you
jacek: no one likes clipphy assistant
Swyfti: i did it
Swyfti: legend league no.54th
Swyfti: and... i am an official master now
Swyfti: making a climb to grandmaster
seshoumara: congrats!
jacek: legend where
Noyotens: @Swyfti legend in what??
jacek: oh, codebusters
eulerscheZahl: wow congrats. that's an impressive bot Swyfti. Mind if I ask you a question about it?
jacek: you mean 2 questions :v
eulerscheZahl: so, when you copied the bot: did you use CTRL+C, CTRL+V or rightclick+copy, rightclick+paste?
https://www.codingame.com/replay/575640171
https://www.codingame.com/replay/575640297
jacek: oO
jacek: euler is no fun
jacek: great minds think alike
eulerscheZahl: i even compared the exact outputs
https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/replays/reproduce/?id=575640297
jacek: maybe this is the optimal route
eulerscheZahl: we both know that it's not
eulerscheZahl: too bad swyfti is offline now. carry my message for him
juice0: man why copy code and then brag about it in chat?
eulerscheZahl: dunno. you can impress me more by reaching silver all by your own
reCurse: Wasn't there another clown who did that recently?
eulerscheZahl: i don't remember anyone in particular. but there are lots of them
GroutchKeu: wait you mean professional developers aren't professional copy/pasters?
GroutchKeu: damn :|
reCurse: Maybe in the clownish dev shops
eulerscheZahl: there's a difference between taking that one algo or library that does the job for you and paying that guy on fiverr to do your job and then ask for a raise
juice0: there's also a difference between using someone else's work and pretending it's your own
reCurse: Though I did hear of a somewhat similar practice of outsourcers further outsourcing their work to cheaper devs
eulerscheZahl: he already did that with his profile pic, claiming it was his own work
eulerscheZahl: turned out he cropped it on his own
reCurse: Oh yeah
reCurse: That's true actually
reCurse: What a clown
juice0: i might just be way on my side of the fence though. hell i put acknowledgements to people whose forum posts helped me out on euler's sokoban puzzle (IIRC)
juice0: in comments
reCurse: That's nice
BlaiseEbuth: Was the code that he copied known to be available somewhere? Or did the other guy shared it with him only?
reCurse: I think euler memorized all CG bots posted on github
xxd: aw thats disappointing to hearr
TobiasA: i always new swyfti was sus:joy:
TobiasA: knew
TobiasA: :expressionless:
xxd: hes only in junior high, something was sus :thinking:
reCurse: It's not about school it's about behavior
TobiasA: it was just too fast
xxd: yeah forget what i said
reCurse: Those clowns all follow the same pattern
reCurse: Insecure to the core
reCurse: Anyway
TobiasA: in two days or so he reached legend
xxd: i reached legend sorta fast for UTTT
xxd: but
xxd: i did get some help
TobiasA: i guess i am just slow
xxd: no
MiyamuraIzumi: nice
xxd: i gott lucky
MiyamuraIzumi: I still in bronze on UTTT
reCurse: To be fair uttt is relatively simple to get legend on
TobiasA: how does one even represent the board for uttt
reCurse: Some will disagree with me I'm sure
xxd: also MiyamuraIzumi: your CvZ is still ~200 places higher thtan mine
xxd: i have 209k points on it right
xxd: now
reCurse: But the fact you just need to code a vanilla search algorithm with no heuristic needed and just basic optimization gets you there
reCurse: Can't say that for a lot of multis
xxd: but i did manage to get it working yesterday
xxd: yeah
xxd: im not sure why you hate it so much according to astrobytes
MiyamuraIzumi: too fast
xxd: is it because of its simplicity?
reCurse: It's a terrible game
xxd: :(
Rob022: code in binary like a pro
reCurse: It's completely obtuse to read
xxd: true
reCurse: It's unbalanced to hell and beyond
reCurse: It's not fun to watch
MiyamuraIzumi: it took me serveral weeks for cvz
xxd: how many playouts per turn MiyamuraIzumi
xxd: I'm only getting around 15k I think
xxd: more towards the end though but still
eulerscheZahl: BlaiseEbuth i just got suspicious by his fast climb (took much much longer to reach legend)
so i compared with the bot of a well known cheater
reCurse: On a more serious note did anyone get around to try thompson sampling with mcts?
MiyamuraIzumi: don't remember
MiyamuraIzumi: more than 100k
xxd: wow
xxd: C++?
MiyamuraIzumi: C
TobiasA: i've never used MCTS in my life
xxd: wow
TobiasA: i'm scared
xxd: its so fun when it works
MiyamuraIzumi: I just thought that C is faster than c+
xxd: yeah i think it is a bit faster but theres not ergonomic semantics
TobiasA: but what if it doesn't work
eulerscheZahl: "To be fair uttt is relatively simple to get legend on"
for me personally UTTT and Wondev Woman were the hardest legends of all
xxd: well u just gotta pour more hours into making it work
TobiasA: debugging those stuff doesn't sound nice
reCurse: I can see for WW but UTTT I super disagree
reCurse: Vanilla mcts and basic optimization that's all you need
reCurse: No brain needed
xxd: :/
reCurse: Just code the spec
eulerscheZahl: i'm terrible at writing fast code
xxd: yeah the simulation is easy and easy to bitboard too
xxd: wait. reCurse what do you mean exactly by basic optimization
reCurse: Basic knowledge of what makes code fast or slow
juice0: my pride in my uTTT bot that looks 4 moves ahead is quickly shrinking
eulerscheZahl: and I recently realized i had a major misunderstanding in MCTS. I used the rollout count of the root instead of direct parent node
reCurse: You need both in uct
michaellan: what?
michaellan: isnt it just parentt
reCurse: sqrt(log(parent)/child)
reCurse: From memory
michaellan: yeah there's no root in there
michaellan: i think he meant like the actual root of the tree
eulerscheZahl: and i did something with root and child
michaellan: i hate how once we start using these cool algorithms and approaches, they always involve simulation :joy:
michaellan: simulation is sometimes so painful to write ,and get right and not buggy
reCurse: So... just like code?
michaellan: true
michaellan: i'm gonna learn GA next
reCurse: Do it for the knowledge
reCurse: But don't spend too much time on it
reCurse: A lot of it I find convoluted and unnecessary imo
michaellan: oh, was gonna do Mars Lander optim with GA
michaellan: someone yesterday saaid PID controllers alone was enough
reCurse: You can basically boil it down to "try random solutions, keep the best and only partially randomize those afterwards"
michaellan: like MC but with some sort of pruning?
michaellan: and crossover
reCurse: Once they start talking about chromosomes and crossover and all that you can close the tab
michaellan: hah
TobiasA: :laughing:
michaellan: maybe i'll learn and use simulated annealing for ML optim then
reCurse: That's a better investment
michaellan: my dad keeps telling me about it, i think he likes it
michaellan: awesome
TobiasA: cool dad
Porsuk: do we always make the first move in UTTT on the top left board?
reCurse: Dead center
michaellan: my MCTS tells me center (4, 4)
Porsuk: IDE acts that way but it's not written in the rules
Porsuk: dead center?
michaellan: dead center is the coordinates 4 4
michaellan: i have some utility functiions to help with conversion if you're using bitboarding
michaellan: i think reCurse said that would be rated an easy puzzle, but still
reCurse: A lot of people think my opinions are misguided so take that with a grain of salt :P
SabertheLost: Stupid random tick tack toe algo still not good enough to beat broze boss ;)
michaellan: lol
michaellan: my random.choice(available_moves) got me into bronze
SabertheLost: 29.91 in ranking comapred to bromze boss 31.63.
Ok it not total random. Only placement that will make me win or lose are chocen at random.
michaellan: why would you choose a placement that will make you lose
michaellan: wait you're already in bronze?
SabertheLost: I do not do it. (aka so it nort part of the list of random placements9
michaellan: i suggest you learn MCTS now
michaellan: it will skyrocket you
michaellan: and you will have the biggest dopamine rush of your life
TobiasA: to what league?
michaellan: or at least i did
michaellan: to legend
SabertheLost: Yeah I know I should take the leap.
TobiasA: hm
TobiasA: all the way from bronze?
michaellan: i had to make some speed optimizations
michaellan: well yeah i was in bronze
TobiasA: damn then MCTS is probably very difficult
TobiasA: if it is that effective
michaellan: it depends how many bugs you run into IMO
michaellan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXW2yZndl7U
michaellan: i dont know what the pros think of this video but i think its good
reCurse: It's actually easy but a lot of explanations are not that great
michaellan: reCurse: have you seen the video i listed above?
TobiasA: i've seen that video
michaellan: I think the only part thats wrong is he doesnt alternate win/loss propagation going up to the root
michaellan: or he might've and i missed it
TobiasA: the scary part is trying to implement it
reCurse: It's not wrong
michaellan: oh
reCurse: MCTS is applicable to a much broader range than adversarial games
reCurse: So it's not a given
michaellan: ah
reCurse: You could do it to optimize cvz for example
reCurse: Then there's no alternate propagation
michaellan: yeah understood
michaellan: silly mee
SabertheLost: each time I start reading the MCTS is sooo many constants that I do understand the sentences they make.
michaellan: i wonder what the legend certification task is for the Optimization quest track
michaellan: there is not that many constants?
SabertheLost: do not *
reCurse: I think starting with a basic multi-armed bandit example would do a lot of good in understanding mcts afterwards
reCurse: Because it's basically just adding a tree
TobiasA: is that a puzzle?
SabertheLost: @reCurese I cannot find the multi-armed banit in the associated traning puzzels under Monte carlo
michaellan: if you have slot machines with different payout rates that you dont know, how do you maximize your winnings
reCurse: You have to look outside Codingame
TobiasA: oh
michaellan: you need to exploit the current slot machines with good payouts but you also need to explore the others occasionally
TobiasA: RL stuff yea?
reCurse: Not necessarily but yes
michaellan: apparently MCTS is not RL. I still dont know what countsa nd what doesnt
reCurse: I don't see how it's not in some ways
michaellan: yeah im not sure, eulerscheZahl just said it wasnt when i asked
reCurse: Maybe because it's typically viewed as learning offline
reCurse: But MCTS is a case for learning online
michaellan: oh i see
michaellan: so generally RL is an approach where you end up with those magical weights right
reCurse: No that's the thing it's much broader than that
michaellan: o
michaellan: anyway sounds like i have a lot of reading to do
reCurse: Semantics can get pretty confusing and I won't pretend I get those perfectly either
reCurse: Broadly speaking reinforcement learning is just training a behavior by reinforcement through rewards following actions taken
reCurse: The reason mcts qualifies is you train a policy or the action taken through simulated actions in the environment and getting the win/loss reward
reCurse: Generally though you mean it's learning to generalize to most scenarios whereas mcts only trains on a specific scenario
michaellan: hmm i dont get what you mean by that last part
michaellan: OH
michaellan: like for example in CvZ
reCurse: After you're done with 10k simulations on the root state you only gained knowledge about the root state
reCurse: When you go to the next state you have to restart from scratch
reCurse: Hence the online part
michaellan: it twould be the same set of weights regardless of the initial setup
michaellan: wait wontonimo told me to do the thing where I just re-root the selected child as the new root
michaellan: instead of throwing away my entire tree
reCurse: When you go to a completely different state
michaellan: yeah i see, i understand
reCurse: What you searched previously doesn't help you
michaellan: interesting
reCurse: So reinforcement learning tries to accumulate knowledge to generalize to most situations
reCurse: I mean how the term is typically used
reCurse: Even though it doesn't have to
michaellan: ah
michaellan: semantics :rage:
TobiasA: scitnames
TobiasA: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
xxd: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
TobiasA: :0
michaellan: thats me when i realize i need to use std::array to get copies
michaellan: instead of C arrays
TobiasA: that's me when i found out that there is something called std::array
TobiasA: or C arrays
michaellan: broke: using compute clusters for crypto mining. woke: using compute clusters to train your Codingame NN bot :sunglasses:
TobiasA: :muscle::nerd:
reCurse: Not that big of a fan of cloud computing
reCurse: It's so expensive
michaellan: i feel like if i try to start CGFunge Prime it will be a huge rabbithole
michaellan: with no good end result
reCurse: Just do what's fun to you
TobiasA: what's CGFunge prime?
michaellan: its where you have to code in PHP to see if a number is prime
michaellan: (sorta)
michaellan: :smirk:
michaellan: mars lander optim seems really really really hard
michaellan: the stupid collision sound is so darn loud too
Uljahn: to become 1st is almost always hard, im 326th with pid though
TobiasA: that collision sound made me fall once:unamused:
TobiasA: caught me off guard
Maxim251: Somebody was playing ROBOT SHOW?
Maxim251: I have problem, test cases I am making all, but after submit one case is fail.
xxd: Uljahn: how do you know where to avoid? Like if there is not a straight path and you need to go around
Maxim251: I use half step to find if robots are in this same place, especially if robot1 is on pos 3 and robot2 is on pos 4.
xxd: Maxim251: I solved it, maybe I can take a look at your code
Maxim251: ok
xxd: PM me
xxd: I wont give you answers but I might be able to tell where you go wrong
xxd: I'm just gonna say that there's a neat trick for this problem
xxd: no simulation is necessary
ProgrammerDog: hi
TobiasA: i wish i could view peoples replay on mars lander
Uljahn: xxd: guess there is always a straight part in Mars Lander opti, it's similar to ML ep.2
xxd: I see
xxd: thanks for that clarification
Uljahn: not very straight but compared to ep.3
xxd: yeah... i saw Di masta's post mortem and that stuff was downright diabolical
xxd: or i should say blogpost, not post mortem
Messiahbolic: :nerd:
eulerscheZahl: lol what?!
i submitted my UTTT and then just left. came back to find myself at #36 (was 125 before)
all I did was fixing the UCT formula using the parent instead of root
xxd: NICE
reCurse: Well it's pretty impactful
reCurse: That formula was pretty wrong
eulerscheZahl: i just figured so much :D
xxd: I'm not sure how to further optimize
xxd: other than maybe MCTS solver?
xxd: i am already bitboarding pretty efficiently
eulerscheZahl: that's the problem about the game
eulerscheZahl: there isn't much to do except for performance boost
reCurse: At least top 20-30 requires more than performance boost
eulerscheZahl: ok. then i'm happy with my current rank and park the bot right there
eulerscheZahl: i also added the teccles heuristic
Westicles: Is that swifty guy the same as king coda?
xxd: no hes the fallNToblivion guy
reCurse: Ah king coda that was the one
eulerscheZahl: i remember the name. but nothing more about that user
reCurse: Just the previous clown before that one
eulerscheZahl: i'll probably forget about the current one soon as well
eulerscheZahl: someone just pinged everyone on discord. and the moment I wanted to delete it, it was already gone
xxd: damn
eulerscheZahl: was that you reCurse?
xxd: why would reCurse do something like that
eulerscheZahl: because he's a mod
xxd: hmm
eulerscheZahl: that steam sale message popped up a few times recently. I also deleted it once or twice when I was fast enough
reCurse: Yeah
reCurse: Happens every day now
reCurse: Usually lucky enough to catch it right when it pops
reCurse: Almost time to consider making phone verification a requirement
eulerscheZahl: i wonder if that's a human or a bot
reCurse: Bot probably
Astrobytes: Very annoying, since it shows every channel with new messages to be read.
eulerscheZahl: phone verification? then i would be out :scream:
reCurse: Suspicious
reCurse: You have no 2FA at all?
eulerscheZahl: i don't have a mobile phone
reCurse: Many sites make 2FA mandatory now what do you do
eulerscheZahl: i know. I avoid them
Astrobytes: :older_man:
eulerscheZahl: i have 2FA at work. with a corporate card
reCurse: Unfortunate
xxd: we should make them solve an easy classic puzzle
xxd: just joking
reCurse: Well there are bots requiring arbitrary manual steps
reCurse: Before you can post
reCurse: I guess that could be looked into as well
Westicles: No mobile... that's awesome. And seriously eccentric, like 1/50,000 behavior?
_ForGiveMe_: Hey guys, anyone uses javascript? I'm having some problems
_ForGiveMe_: I'm new, trying to learn it
BlaiseEbuth: Using js is the first problem you have.
_ForGiveMe_: Why?
xxd: because hating on JS is cool
BlaiseEbuth: and justified
xxd: JStified
BlaiseEbuth: :scream:
reCurse: When you're stuck with it you have to make do
reCurse: _ForGiveMe_ it's better to just ask your question right away
_ForGiveMe_: Not much of a question, kinda was looking help for the Temperatures puzzle
Uljahn: is the help you are looking for language specific or just general hints?
jacek: there are hints for temperature puzzle
Tormugher: Hi! im stuck at temepature puzzle too
xxd: what does "stuck" mean
xxd: errors?
Tormugher: im not sure if my method is correct
Tormugher: "process has timed out"
Tormugher: i added a new vairable "t1"
jacek: timeout could also mean some crash
jacek: what is your code
Tormugher: and i divided it in 2, (>0 and <0) then i keep adding 1/decresing until its 0
Tormugher: for each 1 j=j+1 and then i compare it with the others results
xxd: well, that... is one way you could do it
xxd: you're probably timing out since if they're all positive you're gonna keep adding one and it will never become zero?
Tormugher: sorry if I'm not clear english isn't my native language
xxd: or you're just timing out in general because this approach is too slow
xxd: your explanation makes sense, but your approach is wrong
Tormugher: if they are positive it does j=j-1
xxd: it shouldn't take longer to find the answer to [-1, 234203529835, -3497345345] than it should for [-1, 2, -3]
Tormugher: hmm i didn't think about that
Tormugher: thank you
eulerscheZahl: the constraints say that the maximum absolute value is somewhere around 6000 (i forgot the exact number)
eulerscheZahl: still the approach sounds really unusal me. nothing i would've come up with
jacek: mhm
SabertheLost: I soo do not understand how I should apply the Constant in this test "Monte Carlo Tree Search exercise"
I manage to get the correct value for Large Test', but not most of the others. WTF. :)
xxd: which challenge
SabertheLost: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/monte-carlo-tree-search-exercise
Uljahn: are you talking about C in UCT formula M.s/M.v + C*sqrt(ln(N.v)/M.v)?
SabertheLost: I think so.
SabertheLost: Not sure how it effects the score already calculated.
xxd: ah
xxd: so a good way i like to think about it
xxd: is the left term is the "exploitation" term and the right term is the "exploration" term
xxd: exploitation = keep doing what works
xxd: exploration = try new things
xxd: exploration term gets higher if the node seems to be good
xxd: OOPS exploitation, not exploration
xxd: exploration term gets higher the less visited a node is
Uljahn: "I manage to get the correct value" - is it for C? it's given in the inputs btw
xxd: so by controlling C, you control how much your MCTS is willing to explore by biasing the exploration term
SabertheLost: "Uljahn 09:45PM
"I manage to get the correct value" - is it for C? it's given in the inputs btw"
I mean i get correct solution, but I think it just a bug
xxd: that is why C is also known as the "exploration parameter"
SabertheLost: I see I try it out a bit more thanks
Uljahn: implementing MCTS for the first time could be hard, hence the difficulty of the puzzle
xxd: hmm
xxd: what exactly are we controlling for Mars lander if we are using PIID
xxd: PID*
xxd: the angle?
Anon_Wolf: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e989a0fb-3bfc-44fd-acb9-ede71824a7ba
xxd: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7308627/javascript-calculate-the-nth-root-of-a-number
Uljahn: yes, the angle is dependent on the velocity and position difference
xxd: do i need to change thrust around or should i just leave it at 3 or 4
xxd: for CSB i just left it at the max
xxd: unless i was turning around a corner
SabertheLost: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/44a638ba-bffa-4e9b-a9bf-bd00920b09f2
xxd: well root is the same for each path
Scarfield: You could do both angle (pod direction) and thrust. but could probably make it land with only control on the angle, and simple heuristic on thrust. If you want to optimize on fuel usage, you need something less "simple" i guess
xxd: yeah im just gonna focus on angle for now
xxd: physics problems are not my area of expertisee
xxd: so i guess angle is a function of h_speed and thrust is a function of v_speed
Scarfield: i think implementing a PID for mars lander is making it harder than it has to be. you still need a path to steer after. Coding some kind of search with a simulator is not as hard i think
xxd: by the way, this is not the hard one where you need to navigate around
xxd: i think Uljahn said above that theres like a general path
xxd: going straight there
Scarfield: ah okay, i just assumed that it was :)
Uljahn: yes, i use h_speed for angle calculation and v_speed for thrust
Uljahn: gravity is 3.711, so always 4 is a bit more than needed to maintain velocity, you'll fly away
xxd: yup, i'll keeep that in mind
Scarfield: within some angle region, turning to much you will still make you fall faster
xxd: why is physics so compilcated D :
Uljahn: also it's easy to calculate the angle which gives perfect balance with gravity, simple trig
xxd: is that a special case thats necessary?
xxd: doesnt seem like thats... particularly useful?
xxd: oh
Uljahn: no, just to understand some details
xxd: the other part that scares me is
xxd: you need to be exactly 0 degrees when you hit the ground
xxd: LOL i can make myself go upsidiie down
Scarfield: but you can move ut to 40m/s horisontally iirc
Scarfield: up to*
Uljahn: 20
xxd: ah
xxd: so just swerve myself back upright when its time
Scarfield: yup
xxd: ah, i control the *desired* rotation angle
xxd: i thought i had to control the delta
xxd: i think thats a bit easier
Scarfield: yea, you are limited by a max angle change of 15deg per turn though
Scarfield: i think its 15(?)
xxd: yup ur right
xxd: but that means i can just focus on the PID part i think
SabertheLost: woohoo, I got it working, (only one that fails is the one with the same score sorting)
SabertheLost: ... almost.. damn
xxd: nice, good work
xxd: what language are you doing it in BTW?
SabertheLost: java
xxd: man this math is so hard, i have an urge to learn simulated annealing for this
jacek: math, not even once
Geiler: When I clash with few people the problems are always easy, but when the lobby is full, we get hard ones
Astrobytes: 1 letter away from disaster...
Yeah it doesn't work like that afaik
Astrobytes: It's just random clashes whatever you do
xxd: hi astrobytes
Astrobytes: hi xxd, what you up to
xxd: mars lander, still :) how about you?
Astrobytes: I was rewriting some Vindinium and accidentally submitted, trying to get my rank back :( :D
xxd: ahhhahaha, thats the worst
Astrobytes: Yeah, well, guess it forces me to rewrite properly at least :D
Astrobytes: How's Mars Lander going?
xxd: I... don't think i'm doing it correctly
xxd: I'm doing PID controllers-style and tinkering with some magic constants
AllYourTrees: import antigravity
xxd: thrust=4
Astrobytes: use python; import everything
xxd: i think i'm gonna scrap this and try sim. annealing
Astrobytes: Mars Lander... I did a GA, it worked. Something like SA might be better though
xxd: this is the medium one btw
xxd: overkill? or no
Astrobytes: No not overkill.
Astrobytes: I think I did the GA for the optim, then did that one
Astrobytes: Or something like that. My memory fails me currently
xxd: alright yeah. im gonna write up something that would kill two birds with one stone (medium puzzle and optim)
xxd: how would evaluation function work for Mars Lander?
xxd: i guess i can use some combination of the ending velocities/angle
BlaiseEbuth: if(!crash)return INF;else return -INF;
xxd: joking? or for real
xxd: that doesnt seem very useful
xxd: lol
xxd: oh wait... duh i should incorporate how much fuel is left
Astrobytes: yeah, distance, angle, velocity all the usual stuff
Astrobytes: You can, yes
xxd: yea but thats more for the optim one i guess
SabertheLost: I love it when I get 6/7 correct in the test-cases in the IDE. but 100% when I submit.
xxd: hmmmmmmMMMMMMM
xxd: oh WAIT
xxd: someone mentions a strategy in the forum where you control separately vertical and horizontal motions
xxd: i think i wlil try that first
SabertheLost: Ok, now i got it working on both. Was adding double the amout of visitors on each node :)
Westicles: one letter :smirk:
SabertheLost: yeah, letter not node.
Astrobytes: Westicles :innocent:
TheOneCode: is there a way to play clash only with python programmern?
Rob022: only private with friends
TheOneCode: okay thx
Astrobytes: submission limit for optims < than for multis?
reCurse: I don't think so
Astrobytes: Hm. Seems I hit the limit quicker than usual. It's late, so I'll test it properly at another time I guess.
xxd: i'll test it for you :wink:
Astrobytes: It really does seem to be less tolerant, but I've had 3 beers so I'm declaring nothing as fact right now
PatrickMcGinnisII: data dangler gambler rangler band member
michaellan: :thinking:
Astrobytes: you alright there Patrick
xxd: i took a nap, now im back, gonna try cheesing mars lander 2
Westicles: some people call me maurice? no, that's not it...
BlaiseEbuth: Astrobytes: possibly to avoid random optimization?
Astrobytes: I improved my ML optim position by 331 rank-wise, 152 points ...
BlaiseEbuth: Time for a dark coffee.
Astrobytes: Westicles: hah! :D
Astrobytes: anyway, laters all, take care and all that, gn
BlaiseEbuth: Giant nipple :wave:
xxd: huh
Astrobytes: lol
BlaiseEbuth: ngl
Astrobytes: bn Blaise
xxd: big nipple
BlaiseEbuth: Bonne nuit :flag_fr:
Astrobytes: :baguette:
Astrobytes: :french_bread:
KNTK: Any idea at what time ratings are updated?
xxd: like 5:30PST for me
KNTK: Thank you
xxd: so in about an hour
KNTK: Another silly quoestion: Do you get more points from codegolf, if you use many languages?
xxd: yeah i think so
xxd: but only like top 3 or so
xxd: but the codinpoints for Code golf is very little
KNTK: I suppose I have to focus on bots then
xxd: yeah thats the conclusion i came to as well
Westicles: golf score is your best five languages
xxd: ah i stand corrected
vysor: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
KNTK: As in best five languages for each separate codegolf, not those on my profile.
xxd: yes
Westicles: click ranking on your profile page, it shows where your points come from
PatrickMcGinnisII: my data is dangled
PatrickMcGinnisII: Before accessing the top solutions, help us to rank them
PatrickMcGinnisII: meh
xxd: at least theres a new legend achievement ofr that
Westicles: pat's into that purple drank again
PatrickMcGinnisII: yup
xxd: the "High ground" test seems a bit annoying for ML...
xxd: wondering if i should special-case it or take in delta Y in my angle calculation
DR_IQWDJ: minesweeper was pretty cool to do but when it came to submitting it took me quite a while to get the 100%
omar1o1: aaaa
omar1o1: .
Swyfti: minesweepers?
michaellan: oh its swyfti
michaellan: ._.
PatrickMcGinnisII: :zipper_mouth:
michaellan: so whos gonna tell him
PatrickMcGinnisII: took me hours, only got 165xp
PatrickMcGinnisII: 3 puzzles, smh
xxd: how 165?
xxd: normally 50xp each for community puzzles
PatrickMcGinnisII: code reviewer thing
michaellan: ah nice
xxd: wow, 4 people simultaneously streaming CG on twitch, coolio
WilliamPearsall: what's a good ranking in CoC?
Westicles: 76,941
xxd: depends
xxd: 19th
WilliamPearsall: so like sitting around 1k isn't great?
xxd: thats great
xxd: bot programming, for one, is much more rewarding than playing CoC
WilliamPearsall: I actually disllike AI programming
WilliamPearsall: But that's probably a familiarity thing.
xxd: as in you're unfamiliar, or overly familiar?
WilliamPearsall: unfamiliar. I work in etling and data so data manipulation is comfy.
xxd: ah. well i didnt know anything about AI till a few weeks ago
WilliamPearsall: heh
xxd: but i think its good if you have the luxury and time to sink your teeth in
WilliamPearsall: never hurts to know more.
xxd: as for CoC, i'd say aim for the legend achievement
xxd: win 3 games in a row
WilliamPearsall: 2 is my current run. I was 4 seconds off from 3 last night, but my buddy started talking to me during the third game.
xxd: aw
michaellan: it's not too bad if i'm gonna be honest
michaellan: worst case you can just run the games with bots
michaellan: who have pretty predictable performance
BlaiseEbuth: Muahahaha! :imp:
BlaiseEbuth: Automaton2000, still alive?
Automaton2000: jacek there is degrade bug created by my mistake yesterday in animation update i am just not sure how
BlaiseEbuth: Don't ping people like this Automaton2000!
Automaton2000: the problem is not the way i do it for a while
xxd: Automaton2000 do you even clash of code bro
Automaton2000: but i wonder if it's the same shit
BlaiseEbuth: :grin:
xxd: Automaton2000: i think its still the same problem you've been experiencing
Automaton2000: so maybe you should just be able to do it now :p
xxd: Automaton2000 i hate you
Automaton2000: that should take me a while to get used to it
JLasfdgh: ii
