MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/569202691
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Hmmm
KiwiTae: MaliciouslyCrypticUsername you rbot is blocking yourself lol
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: yes ik D:
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Clumsy bot
tduck973564: Mfw
derjack: good morning
punter147: derjack morning. however from my side a good afternoon
zyh0429: from my side a good evening
derjack: oO
zyh0429: do you know any beautiful girls?
SuryaTheOP: don't you know
derjack: :upside_down:
BlaiseEbuth: Retro-kick!
SuryaTheOP: hloo
SuryaTheOP: from my side good afternoon
BlaiseEbuth: mornin'
SuryaTheOP: clash is becoming worse
SuryaTheOP: test cases are not relevant to the question
punter147: SuryaTheOP why?
derjack: then give it 1 star
SuryaTheOP: i just now reported 2 clashes
BlaiseEbuth: Not new
SuryaTheOP: but i am new
punter147: its been a while since i have last participated. Rating must have dropped :sad:
BlaiseEbuth: So don't say 'becoming worse', just 'bad'
SuryaTheOP: maybe
derjack: there are some many things on CG and people choose to play clashes
BlaiseEbuth: ^
SuryaTheOP: maybe for showing of their skills
BlaiseEbuth: :rofl:
SuryaTheOP: most of them don't share code in clash
derjack: i wouldn't trust best people in codegolfing to write code
SuryaTheOP: ahhh codegolfing
punter147: my last message did not have enough emotion points to show the sad emoji
derjack: :(
SuryaTheOP: have anyonr tried code escape
punter147: derjack now thats good. let me try being sad again :disappointed:
SuryaTheOP: i tired but i asking for more people
BlaiseEbuth: Done the tuto...
SuryaTheOP: let me try confused :confused:
punter147: SuryaTheOP lol no i have not tried code escape.
SuryaTheOP: try it
SuryaTheOP: but only tutorial you can do
SuryaTheOP: other than that maybe you need me :smirk:
darknessrisenow: heyy im jus started coding
SuryaTheOP: welcome to the hell
darknessrisenow: what?
darknessrisenow: its hell
SuryaTheOP: maybe
darknessrisenow: by the way im 13
SuryaTheOP: if you want to learn this is not good place
derjack: :thinking:
darknessrisenow: I learnt java script
SuryaTheOP: this place is only for test your skills
darknessrisenow: yea thats why im here
SuryaTheOP: if you like clash try to learn python or ruby
darknessrisenow: I learnt from freecodecamp.org
SuryaTheOP: :heart_eyes:
darknessrisenow: and codeacademy
derjack: then solve some easy puzzles in js
SuryaTheOP: i agree with dejack
darknessrisenow: ok
SuryaTheOP: is anyone from india
BlaiseEbuth: Thankfully he agreed...
SuryaTheOP: :joy:
darknessrisenow: im from india
SuryaTheOP: in india where
darknessrisenow: telengana
darknessrisenow: hyd
SuryaTheOP: ooo myy god
darknessrisenow: what?
SuryaTheOP: i am from andhra
SuryaTheOP: srikakulam
darknessrisenow: we live sooo close
darknessrisenow: :grinning:
SuryaTheOP: i don't think 730km is close
SuryaTheOP: :joy:
darknessrisenow: yea
darknessrisenow: lol
BlaiseEbuth: ngm
SuryaTheOP: @BlaiseEbuth where you from
BlaiseEbuth: Hell
darknessrisenow: a
darknessrisenow: bruh
darknessrisenow: youre not scorpion
darknessrisenow: from mortal kombat
darknessrisenow: how can you be from hell
SuryaTheOP: blaise bro please don't give ticket to hell bro
darknessrisenow: lol
BlaiseEbuth: Ah yeah sorry, I forgot tha Mortal Kombat created Hell for the Scorpion's lore. Nothing to do with some millenary religions... :smirk:
SuryaTheOP: or for people like us
SuryaTheOP: okay community byee happy coding
darknessrisenow: stations and airports you often see this type of screen: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e69ded80-b0e9-400c-90d7-e79c76c7c8de
darknessrisenow: how do I slove this
darknessrisenow: Im not getting
darknessrisenow: helpp
darknessrisenow: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/ascii-ar
darknessrisenow: this one
SuryaTheOP: i think you are familier with ASCII charaters
darknessrisenow: yes
SuryaTheOP: i can explain but my online class has started
darknessrisenow: what you a student programmer
SuryaTheOP: blaise can help you
darknessrisenow: ok
darknessrisenow: @blaise
SuryaTheOP: yes i am computer science student
SuryaTheOP: still learning
BlaiseEbuth: Wut? Don't throw him to me like that.
SuryaTheOP: :joy:
SuryaTheOP: best mod i have ever seen
darknessrisenow: lol
BlaiseEbuth: darknessrisenow stay here. No need to DM
darknessrisenow: ok
darknessrisenow: calm down
SuryaTheOP: yeah he too busy
BlaiseEbuth: What is the problem exactly.
KiwiTae: too busy burning souls
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah. I automated it
derjack: like Automaton2000
Automaton2000: what did you change your code to be able to run my code in ide
darknessrisenow: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
BlaiseEbuth: ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
darknessrisenow: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
darknessrisenow: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
darknessrisenow: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
BlaiseEbuth: (╯°□°）╯︵ ʍouǝsıɹssǝuʞɹɐp
punter147: is this a letter from hell?
K_for_King: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
TobiasA: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
InternalErrror: Can we please do a petition to ban minifiers (Chinese characters) from clash of code shortest mode
BlaiseEbuth: lel
DaNinja: ban shortest mode
BlaiseEbuth: ban clashs
InternalErrror: Ban codingame.com
aph611418694245154847: ok sure time to use gzip
Honxrss: hi whats up
BlaiseEbuth: ceil
Honxrss: studying CS, but would really like to get a head start at whats going come up ahead
WhaIe: I agree with InternalError, it's annoying when people use the utf-16 encoding trick for shortest. Maybe shortest mode should count bytes rather than characters
sprkrd: there was an argument made in the forum in favour of counting characters instead of bytes. They said they made the challenge more unique in that way, as in most other sites the used metric is byte count
sprkrd: anyway... you know, maybe shortest mode is not such a big deal?
sprkrd: it's not like your honor is at play, or you're gonna miss a prize, or it's a particularly useful skill for the daily life
Uljahn: why is it annoying? just use the same trick [solved]
BlaiseEbuth: ^
sprkrd: maybe just do it for the funsies (should you be the kind of people who enjoys golfing) and who cares who wins and who loses? you can keep your own version of the ranking in your head in which you separate the ones who use minifiers from the ones who know, if you're not really into that kind of stuff
KiwiTae: totally agree if u wanna win bad just learn how to use utf16
KiwiTae: its fair game
KiwiTae: hehe
sprkrd: maybe it's just us filthy peasants who don't understand the passion for golfing :joy:
WhaIe: I don't care about winning, I just think it goes against the spirit of code golfing if you put your code into utf-16 encoding rather than write the shortest code yourself, but it's fine if you guys don't agree lol
Assassindied: Hello :) a pro account for coding escape refers to what ?
Uljahn: utf-16 does not guarantee you a win if your code isn't quite short already
KiwiTae: +1
KiwiTae: and doesnt always shorten your code with the overhead
Uljahn: indeed
BlaiseEbuth: Codingame have a "for work" part for enterprises Assassindied
Assassindied: Oh ok ! And is it priced ?
BlaiseEbuth: Of course.
BlaiseEbuth: Not account creation.
Assassindied: OK :)
Assassindied: thanks for the answer :)
BlaiseEbuth: Ok...
BlaiseEbuth: You'll be happy to know that the HTML notation of the color used by CG for the borders of the tables in the puzzles statement is #dadada... So, I'm sorry, but I have to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqk0jwNs2Ew
sprkrd: Whale Anywho, there was a forum thread somewhere where this was being discusses. Maybe you can sum your voice there and get a feeling on the general sentiment about this matter outside for the 4 persons who are in the chat right now. However, I cannot find that thread right now.
sprkrd: Ah, here it is
sprkrd: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/minify-is-cheating/191450/8
Marchete: hadouken spam is cheating
Marchete: codegolf can't use some language functions because I say so
sprkrd: who's spamming? :O
BlaiseEbuth: The joke fly high above sprkrd...
Marchete: cheaters on Street Fighter
Marchete: they just win me with hadoukens
Marchete: they don't do anything else
sprkrd: oh, let me tell you why i missed the joke
sprkrd: my brain filter the very first word of your sentence out (hadouken)
sprkrd: because it interpreted it as a nickname
Marchete: ahhh
Marchete: :D
BlaiseEbuth: Could be :thinking:
sprkrd: CG has trained me to see the very first word of each sentence as a nickname, as if you were talking to someone
sprkrd: so I totally ignore it now :joy:
sprkrd: Anyway, there's not Mr. hadouken spamming messages, then
sprkrd: there's no*. God, I'm writing awful this morning, skipping letters here and there and using wrong tenses
Marchete: there's no?
Marchete: like there isn't?
sprkrd: there's no Mr. hadouken
sprkrd: or there's not any Mr. Hadouken
Marchete: ok
sprkrd: there's not Mr. Hadouken just sounds awful
derjack: english~
Marchete: damn engrish, I'd write it as there isn't any
sprkrd: also earlier I said "my brain filter" instead of "my brain filters" or "my brain filtered"
sprkrd: and several other tiny mistakes that I didn't notice before pressing enter
sprkrd: there isn't any is also good
Marchete: tortilleishon de patateishon
sprkrd: depends on where you like your contractions better, i like my nots spelled out :relieved:
sprkrd: Marchete Unfortunately, I may be the only one getting that joke :joy:
Marchete: that's more than enough
sprkrd: I must say you're the only spaniard that I see consistently around
Marchete: sadly, yes
Westicles: I've been reading old #fr chats for golf tips. They love golf, it seems
derjack: :golf:
0xdeadc0de1: :sob:
Westicles: Apparently you are supposed to use the python id() function to generate random numbers and then spam submit until it passes. Sounds horrible
Marchete: nice idea
Marchete: shortest random ever
sprkrd: what? to what problem?
sprkrd: It seems like painfully unlikely if there are many test cases
sprkrd: painfully unlikely to nail down the correct answer, i mean
Westicles: For temperatures it is easy to get a sort that is close but not quite right. Like the answer is one of the first two numbers. That kind of thing
sprkrd: ah, I undersand
Marchete: 3 years ago this was my solution for thor
Marchete: curl hge.men
KiwiTae: :joy:
Marchete: 12 chars
Marchete: and 0.99$
darkhorse64: the most famous CG codegolf ever
Marchete: it was fun
sprkrd: my knowledge on curl is very basic, was hge.men a valid host at the time or is it something else?
sprkrd: when i try it now it says "Could not resolve host: hge.men"
Marchete: I bought it
Marchete: for 0.99
DomiKo: XD
Marchete: curl DL a random solution from that server
sprkrd: ah, sorry, missed that message
DomiKo: like really? XD
Marchete: with enough submits it randomly worked
DomiKo: 0.99$ for code golf
Marchete: yeah
Marchete: :money_with_wings:
sprkrd: so networks are enabled for our submissions? :O
RoboStac: not anymore
RoboStac: :)
Marchete: were*
Marchete: only on 2 codegolfs
RoboStac: I was too cheap and too lazy so only got to 16 chars :(
Illedan: What did your page return? Random solution?
Marchete: peasants
Marchete: yes, a random solution
Marchete: like 14 submits until it hits
derjack: could use it for checkers and connect to chinook for moves
Illedan: Or any other game for NN weights
Illedan: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Illedan: Using a lot of time to tweak a variable, just to find the value it uses are never getting changed
derjack: so, a constant?
derjack: amazons again?
Illedan: Blocking
Illedan: I used a value set later, so debugging revealed it had changed
derjack: "Stockfish 14 is now at least 400 Elo ahead of Stockfish 7, a top engine in 2016." oO
kyoya34: andi andi
MSmits: Illedan this reminds me of spending a week fitting weights agains top players in onitama, only to find out it used the same random seed every time
DomiKo: same story for me, when debugging my CSB found that starting position of POD is fixed value :D
MSmits: in some sense i am glad CG bench is no longer an option
MSmits: it's too tempting to spend thousands of games fitting weights. Better to do it locally somehow, even if it's less effective
GoblinSlayer1: ими иапвитьибтьбюбьбиьтипмитьбюж.єД.лшюзщлпорнргошнлщдзл.юобрьптатжєХХХД.зпьпрбюД.лнлеоркпунтаолДЗ_ЮХЗю
GoblinSlayer1: щшю9дг8лщгбдошжюлщєЗБЖЮЄ,
derjack: :scream:
struct: seems quite different from the books i usually see
Astrobytes: :)
Catapa: Alo
Catapa: Buna Dimineata
MSmits: my books are sunny
Astrobytes: hello Catapa
MSmits: ⛲
MSmits: this is in my book
MSmits: and ☕
MSmits: well... the unicode versions of them. chat translates them to emotes
Astrobytes: emojibook
MSmits: yeah there's a lot of them
Astrobytes: Sgt. Kabookemojiman
MSmits: https://imgur.com/a/TpG3cfD
Astrobytes: (Sgt. Kabukiman reference)
MSmits: no idea what that is :)
MSmits: you make me feel under-educated again
Astrobytes: Troma movie from the 90s
MSmits: what's a troma?
Astrobytes: Troma Entertainment
MSmits: ok..
Astrobytes: You'd like it. Superhero movie. He can fly and launches heat-seeking chopsticks
derjack: kids these days...
MSmits: ohh
MSmits: heat as in warm food?
Astrobytes: well he aims them at baddies
MSmits: I see
Astrobytes: It's a cult classic
struct: intel site bugged again for me
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
MSmits: ahh ok, so they only showed this in your cult then
derjack: what do you need intel site for? intrinistics?
struct: yes
MSmits: you could just download the whole site at some point
SilTav: hi guys
MSmits: hi guy!
TheoreticalPirate_e27d: what do you think the better way to learn game development
TheoreticalPirate_e27d: i am already know some stuff ,cding on unity
Astrobytes: Maybe try asking on a game dev site?
derjack: this isnt game dev site?
derjack: but theres game in codingame!
Illedan: Agreed on CG-bench MSmits. Now we know we have to go that way, but sad for newcommers
Astrobytes: And annoying when tweaking constants in the IDE
Astrobytes: Still, worse things happen at sea I guess
Illedan: Don't get me started
BlaiseEbuth: What's sad/annoyng ?
Illedan: IDE play cap
BlaiseEbuth: Oh.
BlaiseEbuth: Shhh! Don't complain, you don't have the right to, since the site is free.
derjack: how much do they pay moderators
Astrobytes: Pay? We pay with our patience.
Illedan: I quit my daytime job to moderate here
Astrobytes: :rofl:
Illedan: With ?disableChat it is quite a good place to work
Astrobytes: hahahaha
BlaiseEbuth: Hey!
BlaiseEbuth: Moskau! Moskau!
Illedan: ?
BlaiseEbuth: Astrobytes started
**eulerscheZahl understand that Moskau. kind of
eulerscheZahl: i know it's from a song
eulerscheZahl: also: hi
Illedan: hi
Illedan: zup?
BlaiseEbuth: hi
eulerscheZahl: weekend :)
Illedan: Wanna join in on Blocking?
eulerscheZahl: hm, it's another board game
BlaiseEbuth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvS351QKFV4
eulerscheZahl: right, that one
Illedan: Yeah, sim is fun
Illedan: Very hard to get fast
Illedan: I wonder if I can create some sort of tile tree to speed it up
eulerscheZahl: don't drag me into your madness
struct: i was gonna port the 3d version
Illedan: I know you want :)
Illedan: Anyway, I'm off for buns and coffee. brb 30 min ish
eulerscheZahl: 3D blocking?
struct: yes
struct: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6411/blokus-3d
eulerscheZahl: oh, that's a thing for real :o
derjack: is there hex blocking
eulerscheZahl: i opened the forum :/
https://forum.codingame.com/t/codingame-fall-challenge-2021-details-please/191792/6
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah
eulerscheZahl: i would say i'm shocked. but I already expected it
derjack: huh
BlaiseEbuth: Expected what ? That CG will decide things at the last minute ?
BlaiseEbuth: :smirk:
eulerscheZahl: that they consider an escape contest
BlaiseEbuth: No way.
Astrobytes: Indeed. I'm trying to ignore it.
derjack: w00t
Astrobytes: anyway, afk for a bit
eulerscheZahl: i predicted it before spring 2021 started. just so i can say "told you so"
struct: will i have to delete again :/
BlaiseEbuth: I don't trust you. You know nothing
Westicles: It could be fun. You have to solve the escape room to unlock the contest
Westicles: And then it some nice boring mcts thing
eulerscheZahl: I also predicted 68c9c0f65e242d686fe26fffc1a830ad7451a2ae4238a9d3f30e0d913e4b2b6c (you can check the chat logs) in early April
eulerscheZahl: echo -n "hex board, growing trees" | sha256sum
eulerscheZahl: so i'm good at predicting
derjack: liar, you just found collision
eulerscheZahl: :D
struct: yinsh being potw was also a dead giveaway it would be hex
struct: since the game doesnt even have a boss
eulerscheZahl: Dice Duel probably has good chances for PotW soon
eulerscheZahl: Thibaud wants to alternate puzzle authors a bit, as he mentioned once. Sokoban was pretty recent
eulerscheZahl: but in a few week probably
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah. Let's do one week eulerscheZahl, one week javaCoffeeCup.
eulerscheZahl: you may get that PotW too with your path finding
BlaiseEbuth: I can't until at least 20 users solve it... :(
derjack: i bet amazons will be next
derjack: what path finding?
eulerscheZahl: i didn't even know about that 20 solvers limit
eulerscheZahl: so that's why space maze hasn't been nominated yet? :thinking:
BlaiseEbuth: Me neither, until I ask Tibo
BlaiseEbuth: https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/a-man-with-a-plan
eulerscheZahl: too much text, won't read that now
DaNinja: that needs a tl;dr
eulerscheZahl: and enough coding for today
FriendlyKh: bye
FriendlyKh: and hi
RoboStac: it also needs a tl;di (too long didn't implement) as theres too many rules that are almost the same
BlaiseEbuth: "rules that are almost the same"?
RoboStac: princess/dragon/treasure are almost indentical
BlaiseEbuth: They are.
BlaiseEbuth: The 3 can be present and only one is the objective.
BlaiseEbuth: But there's nothing more to implement...
BlaiseEbuth: All the idea of this puzzle is precisely to force attentive reading and full comprehension.
BlaiseEbuth: There's not so much redundancy, and not (so) much to do once you fully get it.
RoboStac: yeah, it just felt like extra complexity that involved more coding that didn't really add anything (as once you'd done one it was easy to do the others) . I quite enjoyed it other than that
Illedan: eulerscheZahl, if you do blocking, I'll do try/catch angle :)
derjack: :bribe:
darkhorse64: No one for Fireworks ?
Illedan: Is it good?
darkhorse64: no search, no bitboard, just ifs
Illedan: hmm
Illedan: What is the catch?
darkhorse64: It's completely different from other multis because you have to play well with others
eulerscheZahl: there's a catch in tryangle
AllYourTrees: is that hanabi?
darkhorse64: yep
Illedan: euler got it :D
AllYourTrees: interesting
Illedan: Ok, I'll read fireworks statement
eulerscheZahl: i might just wait for the next contest to play a game
AllYourTrees: facebook has some research papers about training a NN for hanabi :)
eulerscheZahl: bot contest that is
darkhorse64: I think these papers are useless in CG context
darkhorse64: because they presume all players agree on an implied communication protocol
AllYourTrees: ya good point
darkhorse64: implicit sorry
darkhorse64: There's currently RPS on the top 5. I wonder if bots can be improved
darkhorse64: Actually, the hard part is to parse the inputs. Once it's done, the fun begins
Illedan: So... Much... Text...
darkhorse64: Yes, that's the hard part. Output inputs and it will get clearer
derjack: if statement is hard part, then dont read it and code right away
darkhorse64: inputs are also a wall of text
AllYourTrees: what am i doing wrong if simd is slower than non simd?
darkhorse64: very tough and frequent questions. It may take long to load data into SIMD registers
darkhorse64: unaligned data is problematic for SIMD
struct: what do you want to do with simd AllYourTrees?
AllYourTrees: i was trying to convert a matrix vec multiplication to simd
AllYourTrees: the matrix is kinda small so maybe thats why? 60x32
RoboStac: that's usually a fairly big speedup, though theres a decent chance the compiler is already doing it
AllYourTrees: also a high chance that i'm not doing it the best :) the outputs match between non simd and simd versions hah
AllYourTrees: not sure what flags rust is compiled with, how could i tell if its doing it already?
RoboStac: not sure if theres anyway other than looking at the assembly (or forcing it to build with those disabled but I've no idea how you'd do that on rust)
RoboStac: if you want to paste code it might be something obvious?
AllYourTrees: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/865ab24f-54d0-4b75-b299-5fd8b2431bcf
darkhorse64: inference code, hehe ...
RoboStac: yeah, looks like it should be fine. FMA is sometimes a bit weird depending on processor generation
darkhorse64: is weights aligned ?
AllYourTrees: how do you tell if weights is aligned?
AllYourTrees: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/684243a3-d53f-41ff-a6d3-66b4e1b289b0
AllYourTrees: thats my code the sets up weights
darkhorse64: OK. Weights are also m256 vars so it should be fine
RoboStac: might be worth trying to force alignment on the unpacked_output
RoboStac: wait, what even is that - isn't that an array 8 long that you are indexing into by multiples of 8?
AllYourTrees: Ox8 is a const generic, so its an array of the fully output size in this case (32)
AllYourTrees: O * 8 == Ox8
RoboStac: ah
RoboStac: it's an O
AllYourTrees: oh yeah hah
AllYourTrees: does storeu vs store matter at all?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: uh hi
struct: yes
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hello
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hello?
struct: store assumes its alligned
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hellooooooooooo?:confused:
AllYourTrees: :wave:
AllYourTrees: is there a difference between broadcast and set1?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hi
AllYourTrees: oh wait nvm i see
RoboStac: broadcast needs the variable to already be in an avx vector
struct: you can use load if you are loading from array
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: ignoring me huh:unamused:
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: :angry:
struct: stop spamming
Astrobytes: Don't be a knob WaterCooledTopHat_3613
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: its you again astroybes
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: i mean astrobytes
Astrobytes: Quit the DMs or I'll ban you again WaterCooledTopHat_3613
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: dang
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: even though what is dms
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hello?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: :unamused:
BlaiseEbuth: Hello?
Is anybody in there?
Just nod if you can here me.
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: im there
BlaiseEbuth: Is there anyone home?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: people are here but there not talking to me too
BlaiseEbuth: Come on, now.
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: :unamused:
Astrobytes: Need some information, first
BlaiseEbuth: I hear you're feeling down.
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: me
Astrobytes: wahh I skipped ahead
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: ?
BlaiseEbuth: Well I can ease your pain.
Astrobytes: Get you on your feet again
BlaiseEbuth: Relax.
Astrobytes: Need some information, first
BlaiseEbuth: Just the basic facts
Astrobytes: Can you show me where it hurts?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: do i remember you blaise ebuth
Westicles: time for the suitcase on the left
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: cause you are kinda firmiliar
Astrobytes: lol Westicles
BlaiseEbuth: what's firmilar?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: ive seen you before but i cant rememmber
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: when
BlaiseEbuth: Well. I'm stucked here since almost 8 years...
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: ok?:expressionless:
BlaiseEbuth: I'm on the chat all the day, all days, and since several years. So you probably seen me yesterday, the day befor yesteday, the day before the day before yesterday, the.....
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: what?
BlaiseEbuth: Yes
Wontonimo: i kinda remember you also BlaiseEbuth :P
BlaiseEbuth: :thinking: Who are you?
S-Maitland: :grinning:
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: hi im back
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: i just exited the web. and then came back
Wontonimo: wow, you were in the web?
Wontonimo: what was it like?
BlaiseEbuth: sticky
Wontonimo: neon like Tron
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: i was in the website
BlaiseEbuth: <body>WaterCooledTopHat_3613</body>
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: you guy wont understand
BlaiseEbuth: No. He wont onimo
Astrobytes: If you don't quit being a tool I'm going to kick you
BlaiseEbuth: :thinking:
BlaiseEbuth: Hammer kick!
Astrobytes: :hammer_pick:
BlaiseEbuth: Am I really missing a scottish expression, or do you meant fool ?
Astrobytes: I meant tool.
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: Astrobytes what are you guys talking anout
BlaiseEbuth: So what's the meaning of this Astrobytes?
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: imean about
Astrobytes: Pretty close to fool
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: me?
BlaiseEbuth: Automaton2000 you're a mallet
Automaton2000: wait for me to do some research
WaterCooledTopHat_3613: i came back you idiot
struct: :scream:
Astrobytes: Bye bye.
BlaiseEbuth: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
BlaiseEbuth: lag
Wontonimo: lots of attempts at humour has been lost in translation it seems
BlaiseEbuth: Like the movie?
Wontonimo: i remember that i've seen lost in translation, but i dont remember it
Astrobytes: I fell asleep when I went to see that with my gf at the time. Exciting stuff.
Astrobytes: Same with Big Fish.
Wontonimo: i liked big fish. i remember that one
Astrobytes: I watched it since and it wasn't as bad as I remembered.
BlaiseEbuth: Sofia copola's movies... :sleeping:
Millie_yeh_: waiy what
BlaiseEbuth: What what ?
Wontonimo: There's no discussion tab on UTTT ;(
jacek: huh
Wontonimo: found it
jacek: phew
Wontonimo: but on the main UTTT page there isn't a tab for it unlike some other games / puzzles
eulerscheZahl: file a bug report on discord
eulerscheZahl: and if you are a puzzle creator, avoid unicode in the title for that exact reason (bug prevents forum thread from being created)
eulerscheZahl: and because spamming with unicode is childish
Westicles: looking at you mr beach volleyball
Wontonimo: oh dear
Wontonimo: how do i remedy my previous trespasses against the sacred CG?
BlaiseEbuth: You can't. Your place in Hell is warm and waiting for you.
Wontonimo: oh good. it's cold here right now, and I could use a warm fire
Wontonimo: hey Westicles, if only the approvers caught the unicode title thing
BlaiseEbuth: You really think approvers read anything before clicking?
Westicles: heh heh. jk, I didn't know that was a thing either
Wontonimo: oh my BlaiseEbuth, I've been doing it all wrong!
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah... I'll add some some souls to the fire.
Wontonimo: 🏐 🏖 unicode everywhere !!! 🏐 🏖
Wontonimo: but not in my code! Don't put unicode in code comments either! omg, why do these new developers put smiles in the comments?
Wontonimo: or thumbs up?
Westicles: Do people still do that thing where you write text on pictures to communicate? That was the dumbest fad ever
BlaiseEbuth: Memes?
BlaiseEbuth: Snapchat?
BlaiseEbuth: Comics?
BlaiseEbuth: Posters?
BlaiseEbuth: :thinking:
Westicles: Comics are okay, as long as you don't use any of those fancy names
Westicles: Just bought the latest Richie Rich graphic novel... sheesh
jacek: poorie poor?
Astrobytes: Other than xkcd, this is the only 'comic' worth viewing:
https://www.thefarside.com/
Westicles: Well, that and Andy Capp
Astrobytes: lol, that's a name I've not heard for a while
jacek: boomers these days...
StevenV: #UTTT
jacek: :thinking:
Illedan: Anyone knows how to generate the URL for CGstats with the Blocking game?
Illedan: oh, nvm. I used the contest url -.-
Astrobytes: I do that way too often
jacek: huh
Illedan: ôO
Illedan: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Illedan: Navigating horizontal error print on mac is a pain, suddenly it goes to the previous webpage -.-
BlaiseEbuth: "mac is a pain" - Illedan, 07/09/21
Tomo123: anyone using c to code>\?
jacek: i only use d to dode
darkhorse64: hope there's no g language
Uljahn: there is but not on CG
Illedan: Make your own Language?
Include your NN weights into the language and use it on the games in 5 years when CG includes it? :D
Astrobytes: darkhorse64: :rofl: hahaha
Illedan: Connect4 or Fireworks?
Astrobytes: toss a coin
Illedan: This command does not exist. :(
jacek: :bomb:
jacek: (c4?)
jacek: or... :notebook: :soccer:
Illedan: c4 it is, then I can get back into NN
jacek: back?
Illedan: Yeah?
jacek: it implies youve done it before
Illedan: Sure, my current Oware is just NN without onehot encoding and only 1 output to evaluate the position it looks at
jacek: value output is all you need
Illedan: You don't use policy?
jacek: only noobs use policy ~
Illedan: :D
jacek: NN, and youre 69th...
Illedan: I didn't say it was good
Illedan: but it works, ISH
Illedan: Trained for 30 min :P
Illedan: Damn Astrobytes, you really tried to drop me on Amazons -.-
Astrobytes: Illedan: not on purpose dude I swear!
Illedan: Mhm, riiiight
Illedan: I'll remember this
Astrobytes: :D
jacek: phew he didnt drop me
Astrobytes: Naw, I'm just playing around with different things. I dropped myself into the -scores earlier
jacek: scores?
Astrobytes: negative score
Illedan: I think you drop jacek too by losing vs him on negative score :D
struct: hard to believe this bot was 1st
struct: i should resubmit
jacek: yeah, i lose pts in bt or checkers by winning with noobs
Illedan: bt?
jacek: breakthrough
struct: breakthrough
Astrobytes: breakthrough
jacek: slowpoke!
Astrobytes: :(
jacek: and there are more mods than people
Astrobytes: No, 5 mods and loads of people
Astrobytes: actively chatting, sure
jacek: i dont see all the people in list
Astrobytes: I know
Illedan: Is your Amazons NN jacek?
jacek: no
jacek: good old... minimax
Illedan: What year is it?
jacek: i have one locally that wins 90% against this one
Astrobytes: heh
jacek: but no need to use it now
Illedan: Lol, hiding community game
Illedan: But ok
Astrobytes: I need to bitboard this and make a decent bot
jacek: my eval is probably similar to your floodfill
struct: wouldnt call it hiding
struct: :p
Illedan: Dinner time, cya
Astrobytes: cya later
jacek: those nandway guys
Astrobytes: "nandway" :rofl:
jacek: or xorway
Astrobytes: that doesn't work so well
jacek: hmm https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/awM86K4_700bwp.webp
Astrobytes: oh the euros, yes that's accurate
BlaiseEbuth: eurowhat ?
jacek: and the finals are in wembley :thinking:
Astrobytes: Have to be a fool to go to that. Something like 90% of the Scottish fans that travelled there came back with covid lol
jacek: are scottish for or against england
Astrobytes: ...
BlaiseEbuth: #WilliamWallace
Astrobytes: I mean, the Scots fans didn't travel to Wembley for the England v Scotland match to cheer for England
BlaiseEbuth: bulshits all of this
Astrobytes: If you're a Scot living in England you pretend to be happy and encourage them whereas you don't actually care
Astrobytes: I'm not into football/soccer so I'm not the best judge
BlaiseEbuth: You are. As I am, since we still have a brain
Astrobytes: lol
Astrobytes: inb4 ngl
BlaiseEbuth: :imp:
jacek: yeah, football/soccer is better done on paper
Astrobytes: :rolling_eyes:
MSmits: :notebook: :soccer:
BlaiseEbuth: notebook soccer? :thinking:
MSmits: yes
Wontonimo: hey mods, question about sharing code. i posted someone on the UTTT discussion page of how to destroy 3x3 tic tac toe with bitboard and flatMC with a full code example. I'm assuming that's okay but now double checking
Wontonimo: it isn't a full UTTT implementation
jacek: its alright
Wontonimo: :thumbsup:
jacek: i posted 3x3 bitboard + ntuple implementation in chat i havent been kicked yet
MSmits: thats totally fine and also can be found google already
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah, lill' things like this are OK.
jacek: dont worry, marchete gave full implementation on number shifting :unamused:
Astrobytes: Yeah that's cool Wontonimo, nice one. I think MSmits is gonna do some explaining in an article too at some point?
MSmits: it's one of the 3 things I have planned for the summer
Astrobytes: hehehe
MSmits: I want to at least explain the 3 ways I use to represent the state
Wontonimo: I've helped a couple new joiners get to silver and gold using just FlatMC, and it is so much easier to understand and debug
MSmits: well 4 if you count the way i use locally
Wontonimo: when first getting start
BlaiseEbuth: Oh. And is this paper will be free?
Wontonimo: and it is fully reusable for MCTS
MSmits: thats really nice Wontonimo
Wontonimo: that's cool MSmits
MSmits: it will be 20% useful (but really useful for some people) and just 80% filled with weird out-there stuff almost noone will use.
MSmits: but i will separate the two clearly :)
Wontonimo: i want to ask what these 4 ways are, but i'm guessing you'll share when you write it up
kysty: uh, anyone got example for the obtuse triangle code clash? all test worked except test3 for some reason???
MSmits: well binary, ternary, and my hard to explain system that I really need an article for
struct: wontonimo a lookup was faster
struct: was/is
struct: at least for me
struct: But i think its a good thing anyways so more people can understand avx
Wontonimo: my current uttt bot uses a lookup (512 states)
MSmits: maybe I'll include some other games in my article. at some point i developed an obsession with shrinking gamestates to be as small as possible (bit-wise)
jacek: so is mine
MSmits: struct i just said this to Wontonimo in a PM
MSmits: you told me that
Wontonimo: oh, you know what MSmits ... i'm wrong. i was comparing a loop of 8 win moves to the avx, not a lookup
jacek: hm?
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: yeah thats gonna be slow
struct: yeah the loop is slower than the avx
jacek: welp i stopped caring about game performance that much since nn is more costly
MSmits: when you've spent a lot of time maxing out bot performance for various, you kinda do it automatically, whether it is needed or not
MSmits: for various games
Astrobytes: ^ this is how you become struct :D
struct: i didnt optimize for c4
Astrobytes: WHAT
Astrobytes: Shocking.
Astrobytes: You have failed us
struct: ofc i did it was the first thing
MSmits: i didnt either, my bot is still my first version except some small change suggested by struct
Astrobytes: :D
struct: my first thing was rollout function like I said before
struct: since i dont care anymore about c4
struct: this is how i update the mask
MSmits: ohh... gold incoming
Wontonimo: thinking of one punch man's secret to how he got so strong
MSmits: :open_hands:
jacek: gold?
struct: mask = (mask + (511ULL * opp_winning_moves)) & 0x7FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFULL;
Marchete: I gave full Number shifting, yet only 1 guy used it ever...
MSmits: structs secret
struct: ups not that one
struct: mask = (mask + (511ULL * pdep)) & 0x7FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFULL;
struct: its equal to
jacek: Marchete i used it for about 20 levels
MSmits: what are you pdepping
struct: mask + ((pdep << 9) - pdep)
Marchete: I care for the climate change
struct: const uint64_t pdep = _pdep_u64((1ULL << rand(__builtin_popcountll(mask))), mask);
Marchete: don't waste 4hours per level if you can do it in 10 mins
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/737e6c74-d3c6-4145-9298-5ca870d79851
struct: it was faster than setting and clearing bit
struct: at least for me
MSmits: Marchete you think of things faster than i can use them
sprkrd: Marchete I think that the people keen enough to actually know how to run your code for number shifting tend to be also the proud ones who would prefer to solve the game themselves
MSmits: thanks for sharing struct
Astrobytes: yes indeed, pretty nifty
Marchete: yeah, maybe I shouldn't share it
MSmits: sprkrd i think he made it pretty easy though
MSmits: easier than mokka anyways
Marchete: but it was like 30.000% faster than any other approach, damn
Westicles: Yes, I agree sprkrd. Very proud
Marchete: :D
Astrobytes: Marchete: I don't think there's much wrong with sharing it
Marchete: also, it was 2 years old
Marchete: or more
MSmits: the puzzle you mean?
Marchete: yes
sprkrd: Marchete I wasn't condemning you, I was supporting you :O
MSmits: well it was never about getting a maximum score. It was more like a normal puzzle, only with 1000 of them
Astrobytes: oh hey sprkrd
sprkrd: hello Mr. Laing :)
Astrobytes: :D
Marchete: I regret nothing! :D
struct: np, ofc the performance diference doesnt come from there, I wont share the avx functions though to keep multi integrity
Astrobytes: I still haven't written anything for numbershifting, I did it by hand, like Uljahn, maybe some others?
MSmits: i sucked at doing it by hand
Astrobytes: Naturally struct :)
MSmits: yeah dont share that
Marchete: don't start then Astrobytes :)
Westicles: I was against it at first, but I was determined to spend the year burning up my computer to solve it. Instead it took 28 hours. Amazing solution
Marchete: westicles I were on your same boat
Marchete: I had literally a cloud farm of cpu
Marchete: 70x cores
MSmits: how many google accounts with free cloud computing is that
Marchete: preemptive are cheap
Astrobytes: :heavy_dollar_sign:
Marchete: also there are more cloud providers
Marchete: but you are on point ;)
MSmits: I wonder how many times this happens in practice, when doing heavy calculations (in science and business). Them using 300x more time because of an inferior algorithm
Astrobytes: A lot. But for most research purposes it doesn't matter apparently
sprkrd: Yes, that's called reinforcement learning
Wontonimo: like 100% of the time
Marchete: I'd say domain knowledge
sprkrd: it's what they used for alphazero
sprkrd: :clown:
MSmits: pennywise!
Astrobytes: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon:
MSmits: damn you beat me to it
Astrobytes: The only time I won today I think
sprkrd: now seriously, some breakthrough has to happen at some point, it cannot be that we have to spend thousands of kilowatts to just learn a stupid board game
Wontonimo: at where i work, laziness leads to huge REST request and bloated DB payloads. Azure loves us for all the billing they get to do
Wontonimo: not to mention all the lag caused by it
MSmits: well I guess there's always a tradeoff between dev time and cpu efficiency
MSmits: otherwise why would there be python
Wontonimo: and because it is all so inefficient, it has to be distributed across a larger server farm, and that adds additional overhead costs
Wontonimo: right you are MSmits, there really be a tradeoff.
Astrobytes: Kinda why I never went into research
jacek: welp nnue shows you can have a0/lc0 performance with a fraction of power
MSmits: in some domains i guess?
Marchete: well, in general I can't say NN are power efficient
Marchete: most of these use like hundreds GPUs to learn
sprkrd: i don't think NN are the largest problem, really
jacek: yeah its very specific
MSmits: that depends on what you compare them with
AllYourTrees: wouldn't the main thing from NNUEs (that the input changes very little from last step) apply to a lot of things?
Marchete: TPU or whatever
AllYourTrees: or am i misunderstanding NNUEs
MSmits: if you compare a nn with a similar strength normal mcts bot, the nn is wayyyyy more efficient
MSmits: as it will require a fraction of the calculation time
Marchete: + N hours of training
jacek: but more time in 'training'
MSmits: yes but that is only the initial investment
MSmits: you can use it forever afterwards
MSmits: its like solar power
MSmits: big investment at first, pays off later
sprkrd: I think the problem is having to need millions of play-outs to actually fine tune the function approximator. There's an algorithm in RL called HER (Hindsight Experience Replay) that I like quite a bit because it cuts down enormously the number of examples that you need to feed to your network
MSmits: btw dont use solar to power nn
AllYourTrees: and then they make 1 tiny change to the board game rules and you have to retrain lol
sprkrd: the problem with that is that is that it's not easy to extrapolate to adversarial games
MSmits: I am great at hindsight
sprkrd: the idea is pretty neat: they say, OK, you haven't reach your goal in this episode, BUT if the goal was actually the state you reached by the end, then you would have succeeded. And with that, they learn even from failed episodes
Marchete: alphazero learns from losses too
Wontonimo: yeah, i really liked that idea sprkrd. I'd like to reread that paper if you've got the link handy
Marchete: I find AZ simple to understand the learning process
Wontonimo: is it this one you are thinking of https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.01495
sprkrd: Wontonimo there's a video by two minutes papers with a link to the paper in the description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvd1jQe3pq0
Marchete: play, use win/loss and visits each turn as learning samples
Marchete: not those DDQN math
Marchete: I can't understand
sprkrd: Wontonimo yep, that one :)
AllYourTrees: one thing i don't like how AZ needed to add noise and sampling action to force exploration, it seemed lke that was really important
Marchete: neither do I
Marchete: but I guess random noise cancels out
Marchete: with enough samples
jacek: how else youd explore
sprkrd: isn't adding noise like an alternative mechanism to eps-greedy?
RoboStac: yeah, otherwise you play thousands copies of the same game
AllYourTrees: yeah but i also don't like epsilon greedy :)
RoboStac: as it's deterministic
jacek: eplsilon greedy is meh
jacek: with noise you choose not so crappy alternatives
sprkrd: i guess softmax would be mathematically more elegant, but it's a bit more computationally expensive
Wontonimo: I believe the temperature function is noise in favour of the likely, so quite different than softmax
Wontonimo: They start with a temperature of 1 and then reduce to 0.3 during training iirc
Wontonimo: so at the start it really is like softmax, but then it moves to be very close to deterministic
sprkrd: but are you talking about AZ, Wontonimo?
Wontonimo: let me double check and see if i can find a source about the temperature thing
AllYourTrees: for temperature they start with temp of 1 and then reduce it to 0 after 30 turns i think
sprkrd: so if I get you correctly, you're talking about doing softmax dividing the exponent by T, am I right?
AllYourTrees: i.e. select best move start at turn 30
RoboStac: yeah, I think alphago had a slowly reducing temperature and alphazero just had 1/0
sprkrd: so exp(-x / T) / sum(all the exps)?
Marchete: the temperature thing is just a way to control a weighted random selection
Marchete: weighted as the more visits you have, the more chances you have
Wontonimo: yes, T=1 is just softmax
Marchete: and temperature is just pow(visits, 1/temperature)
Wontonimo: T=0 = max
Marchete: I don't think it's about softmax here
sprkrd: how do you keep track of visits when you're using function approximation?
Marchete: temperature is for when you end searching in a turn
AllYourTrees: the function approximate just takes the place of a rollout in MCTS
Marchete: you have a MCTS tree
Marchete: with childrens, each one with visits count
Marchete: what children do you pick as best move?
Marchete: normally it should be the most visits
Marchete: but for giving diversity
Marchete: you do a random weighted
Wontonimo: a rats, stuff got interesting and I've gotta go. later ppl
sprkrd: see you Wontonimo
Marchete: at some point
Marchete: at turn 30
Astrobytes: later dude
Marchete: they just say: "no more random, just pick the move with more visits"
Marchete: that's the temperature zero or infinite can't remember
Marchete: I prefer to way it as pow(visits, factor)
sprkrd: I always forget about the look-ahead aspect of AZ, I have in my mind a clearer picture of actor critic
Marchete: the bigger the factor the more frequent higher visits are randomly picked
Marchete: that's one source of diversity in AZ
Marchete: also they have dirichlet noise
Marchete: in the root expansion only
Marchete: so expand 1st children
Marchete: then add some noise
Marchete: "dirichlet" in this case
Marchete: tldr it's just a vector<float> that sums 1
Marchete: so it doesn't break the softmax (that also sums 1)
AllYourTrees: when you construct the target for the visits, do you do a softmax or just divide by the sum of the visits?
sprkrd: in the upcoming months I'll have to use muzero as a baseline to compare against my own work, so in the process I guess I'll consolidate my knowledge about AZ.
AllYourTrees: like after you run mcts how do you make the policy target that you stick in the buffer
RoboStac: just divide by the root visit count
AllYourTrees: okay ya thats what i do, idk if that or softmax makes a difference
AllYourTrees: they probably produce different policies
Marchete: it gives different
AllYourTrees: which do you do Marchete
Marchete: more flat
Marchete: https://github.com/marchete/CGZero/blob/master/src/CGZero.cpp#L17-L18
AllYourTrees: probably have numerical issues if you try to raise e^500
Marchete: I first divide
Marchete: otherwise it gives nan
Marchete: but after divide I tried to softmax
jacek: there is some trick to make softmax safe
jacek: minus the max?
Marchete: yeah
RoboStac: well, you'd do stable softmax by subtracting the max
RoboStac: in the same way you hopefully do on the forward layer
Marchete: maybe I should do that
gkacitadze: who can help me?
jacek: with?
MSmits: general advice to life i think
MSmits: don't pee into the wind
MSmits: don't eat yellow snow
Marchete: but I just don't use softmax, I guess it's a matter of sub max value, then softmax
sprkrd: MSmits two advices and both have to do with peeing
jacek: omorashi eh
MSmits: mmh I see the pattern now
AllYourTrees: i don't think just subtracting max would work
jacek: but it does
Marchete: why=
Marchete: ?
AllYourTrees: if you have [100, 200, 400, 50, 50], then you'd end up with [-300, -200, 0, -350, -350]
sprkrd: yup
AllYourTrees: wouldn't that still be pretty unstable??
sprkrd: nope
AllYourTrees: e^-350?
sprkrd: large negative values would tend to 0
sprkrd: going towards 0 is alright
sprkrd: going to inf isn't
AllYourTrees: ahhh okay
Marchete: python with numpy and jupyter notebook is a good way to test all these
sprkrd: I also like sagemath quite a bit
sprkrd: is python+jupyter+ you get to visualize your outputs in nicely formated latex documents
Marchete: I have zero graphs of my learning process :D
Astrobytes: :stonks:
MSmits: stonks?
Astrobytes: google it
MSmits: I already googled jaceks urine feitsh thingy
MSmits: i am at my quotum
jacek: huh
Marchete: robo, did you tried fixed point int16 math for NN?
Astrobytes: what?
MSmits: omorashi
jacek: ah
Marchete: try*
RoboStac: yeah, my current c4 is float training with int16 on submit
jacek: i thought it was random japanese word
MSmits: lol
Astrobytes: oh good lord, didn't need to google that
Astrobytes: No you didn't jacek
MSmits: well I trust jacek blindly
RoboStac: it's about 20% faster
jacek: maybe you shouldnt
MSmits: I am starting to think that too
RoboStac: and technically could go horribly wrong as my relu isn't capped
Marchete: it shouldn't be near 100%?
Marchete: with capped
Marchete: like trying to keep all in like -1.5 .. 1.5 range
MSmits: forgive me for thinking stonks is a poo thingy after looking up jaceks word Astrobytes
Marchete: convert to -32767..32767
Marchete: and use that special mult with msb
Astrobytes: Forgiven MSmits
MSmits: :grin:
RoboStac: it reduces the number of multiplications by 2, but theres still lots of other bits that are the same
Marchete: In my head I see it all as int16
MSmits: are you asleep when that happens Marchete
RoboStac: all the additions are int32 (as int16*int16 is int32)
Marchete: https://software.intel.com/sites/landingpage/IntrinsicsGuide/#text=_mm256_mulhrs_epi16&expand=4981
MSmits: just asking for a friend who had that happen is all
jacek: the universe can be compressed into int16
Marchete: int16xint16=int16
jacek: he meant the sum will overflow so you need bigger int to store it
Marchete: int16xint16->int32->shiftR16
Marchete: in 1 instruction
Marchete: fixed point math
RoboStac: hmm, more innacuracies. Might work though
Marchete: big innacuracies :D
RoboStac: it's already scary how wrong it is on equal positions
Marchete: but I just want to ask about if that was tried
Marchete: cummulative 1.0/30000.0 error
Marchete: more or less
RoboStac: lets have a go, should be a quick change
Marchete: quick change?
Marchete: lel
Marchete: for me it's like a massive overhaul
RoboStac: well, I've got all the int16 conversions, just need to change the additions / relu steps
Marchete: because I need to check my values all over can't overflow
MSmits: lel, lul and lol are all Dutch words btw, not abbrevs, real words
Marchete: lol
MSmits: that means fun
RoboStac: yeah, mine has the potential to overflow
RoboStac: tried 20 games and it never got close though
Astrobytes: isn't one ass or something?
MSmits: lul is penis
Marchete: \o\ lol /o/
MSmits: lel is slap in the face
Marchete: ppl waving
jacek: hm? https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aAY2rXg_700bwp.webp
MSmits: or just punch, not sure
Astrobytes: ah, I knew it was Down There
MSmits: yep
MSmits: lol jacek
MSmits: the sign basically says, Mon, that one, that one, that one, please
MSmits: Mom
jacek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXigSu72A4
Astrobytes: Lies. Psychotic dutch children.
Astrobytes: (joking)
MSmits: well some are imho
Astrobytes: That's not just a Dutch thing
MSmits: sure, but Dutch children are bigger
Westicles: yeah, I heard about a dutch kid putting his finger in a leaking dyke
Astrobytes: :smirk:
MSmits: he probably thought it was an electrical socket
sprkrd: the first thing I saw when I looked at the chat again was MSmits saying "lul is penis". I thought his account got vandalized
MSmits: haha
sprkrd: and then I thought people were celebrating his momentary lapse of childish behavior
MSmits: wait if you lapse your childish behavior, doesnt that mean you stop being childish
MSmits: mmh
Astrobytes: Yes. That's called not living properly.
sprkrd: lapse also means "moral failure"
MSmits: I see
Marchete: you can't be childish with students I guess
Astrobytes: Why not?
MSmits: well most of mine are 16 and older
Astrobytes: The very peak of childishness
MSmits: a certain type i guess :)
Marchete: the worst
Astrobytes: yes That Type
MSmits: don't get many of those thankfully
jacek: hm?
Astrobytes: Still, never lose your inner child. You lose touch with the world.
MSmits: true
MSmits: real scientists never lose it
MSmits: science is basically: "hmm what happens if i do this "
MSmits: and that's what being a child is
jacek: https://www.tested.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/12/83986-83931-05-mythbusters-expressions.jpg?w=921
MSmits: very true
jacek: https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/ded7a33b909a5d2b0331fb9452492ff6fe360526cd90cc923ac3a679adbf744b_1.jpg
MSmits: i did that too
jacek: and now youre bald
Astrobytes: 100%
MSmits: that too
Astrobytes: Those two memes are on point
MSmits: I remember one time mixing some carbonated drinks, putting a lid on and shaking it
jacek: oh my
MSmits: nice explosion. Had to clean up kitchen though
Astrobytes: I had the sense to do (most of) these things outside
MSmits: well
MSmits: thats were my parents were
struct: i had a friend that took carbonated drink in a bicycle ride
MSmits: nice one
Astrobytes: Sodium metabisulfite and citric acid reaction in my bedroom was not good though
Astrobytes: I even had the windows open
Astrobytes: and did it on the windowsill
jacek: struct like this? https://i.imgur.com/NefQSich.jpg
Astrobytes: Some smell
MSmits: one time I was tired after a parent-teacher thing and took some free coca cola home with me in a plastic beaker with lid. Was too tired to think about it
MSmits: and that one exploded in the train
struct: "Zoinks! You've taken a wrong turn."
struct: doesnt work jacek
Astrobytes: That was only last year wasn't it? Year before MSmits?
jacek: you tried?
MSmits: you dont want to explode things on a train I tell you
struct: the link doesnt work
MSmits: i think 3 yrs ago already
jacek: huh
MSmits: but yeah i might have told this before, apparently
Astrobytes: wow, time flies
jacek: imgur doesnt work for you?
Astrobytes: I remember you were really happy about the free cola
MSmits: yes!
struct: i think cg messed it up
struct: copy and paste worked
MSmits: stores are closed and i didnt want to drink water
MSmits: i still ended up drinking the cola too, the half that was not all over my face and clothes
Astrobytes: Of course. Waste not, want not.
MSmits: exactly
MSmits: btw got my 1st vaccine shot yesterday
Wontonimo: suck it out of the fabric. Get cola and clean your clothing at the same time
MSmits: lol
Wontonimo: congrats Msmit !
MSmits: nothing like ending a 14 hr work day by sucking on your clothes
Astrobytes: Tastes like whatever you used to clean your clothes, tried that with expensive drinks before when younger :P
jacek: oO
MSmits: Wontonimo yeah I could not move my arm all day though, it's now getting better finally
jacek: :smirk:
Wontonimo: clean your clothing using turkey juice Astrobytes , solves the problem
Astrobytes: hehe yeah mine was like that for 2-3 days
MSmits: ah that sucks
jacek: pfizer?
MSmits: apparently the second shot could be worse?
MSmits: yeah jacek
Astrobytes: Same
jacek: it is a llitle worse
jacek: i was sleepy all week
jacek: but that could be heatwave
Wontonimo: i got my second on wednesday. yesterday i couldn't figure out if i wanted to barf or explode out the back end all day
Wontonimo: not a fun day yesterday
Astrobytes: I had a bit of fatigue on the day after but otherwise was cool
Wontonimo: today i'm good
Astrobytes: nice, much better day
Westicles: all those spike proteins collecting in your ovaries can make you sleepy, sure
MSmits: sounds a bit like stomach flu Wontonimo
MSmits: noro virus
MSmits: there's always the remote possibility you caught something else
Astrobytes: when I got covid my first symptom (other than feeling real strange and a fever) was back end material
jacek: oO
MSmits: let's take bets on how long it takes jacek to find a meme for that Astrobytes
Astrobytes: followed by vomiting, then flu like symptoms, then OK after a week or so
Astrobytes: And then it came back.
AllYourTrees: i just had a headache after my second pfizer shot
AllYourTrees: my mom didn't have many symptoms either. wife was out of commission for the next day lol
MSmits: my wife was like that for 1 day after 1st shot
codeing: hello
MSmits: you forgot world
codeing: wanna ask a question
Astrobytes: My mum had the AZ one and was cool with the first, second one did her for a week, vomiting and fever mostly
struct: No symptoms, but I havent taken the vaccine yet
AllYourTrees: oh wow
codeing: what kind of game of logic allow to improve programming skills ?
codeing: anyone have any idea ?
AllYourTrees: any practice programming will help you improve programming :)
MSmits: yes also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oseqh7SMIvo
struct: I dont use logic, i use performance
codeing: how performance ?
jacek: connect 4 and oware are now hyped
Marchete: 1st pfizer shot, just arm pain
codeing: cool jacek
Marchete: well, really in the 1st 5 minutes after the shot, I got some symptoms, but lasted just a couple of minutes luckily
AllYourTrees: thats good
Astrobytes: or not - unless an allergic response there should be nothing happening other than a sore arm for the first 10-15 minutes
Astrobytes: 30 mins being a reasonable time to wait for allergic response
jacek: and 1 hour before the upload is complete
Astrobytes: Yes! I now have 5G thoughts and I am Magneto
struct: i would not mind having 5G
Astrobytes: Bill Gates speaks to me through my arm and I have intimate knowledge of Deep State activities.
Astrobytes: Honestly, the conspiracies are hilarious
Marchete: you intimate with him?
Marchete: wow 5G is amazing
codeing: connect 4 and oware are cool, but don't you know a soft app ?
codeing: software ?
codeing: jacek ?
sprkrd: what do you mean a software?
codeing: hmm
Westicles: he wants something for his phone
codeing: sure
codeing: or personal computer
Westicles: a game that will help learn programming
Astrobytes: 5g of most things is enough for a good... oh nvm
codeing: yes
sprkrd: you want a game?
codeing: game of logic
sprkrd: spacechem
codeing: lemme check
codeing: seem cool
sprkrd: also infinifactory, factorio, and of course space engineers
codeing: hmm
sprkrd: any game by zachtronics
Astrobytes: TIS-100
Astrobytes: yes
sprkrd: yeah, TIS-100 indeed
Astrobytes: any
sprkrd: also kerbal space program
codeing: cool
sprkrd: and i'm gonna stop there, plenty of games already :D
jacek: or openttd
codeing: thx
Astrobytes: never tried Kerbal actually
sprkrd: I have not tried Kerbal myself, either. I have plenty with Factorio, Spacechem and Space Engineers, I don't want to fall into the rabbit hole of yet another game :joy:
sprkrd: But I have seen a couple of videos of KSP and it looks pretty amazing
Marchete: city skylines
Marchete: cities*
Astrobytes: MSmits plays Space Engineers too right?
sprkrd: yeah, he's a big fan
sprkrd: it was his excuse to learn C# if I remember correctly
Astrobytes: I haven't actually played that either, though I know more about it
Astrobytes: Yes, correct
Astrobytes: And shader programming
Astrobytes: I liked Opus Magnum from Zachtronics when I needed a break from actually writing things
sprkrd: Opus Magnum's received a lot of praise, but unfortunately I haven't tried it
sprkrd: Many people say it's their best game
Astrobytes: It's actually very cool. Same metrics for performance as the other games, it's very polished
Astrobytes: But sometimes you're more in a TIS-100 or Exapunks mood
MSmits: yep learned C# for space engineers
jacek: polished eh
sprkrd: :joy:
sprkrd: it took a while, but I finally understood where you're getting at
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF3i_xeC1aQ
MSmits: this is one of the silly things i was up to with scripting and modding
MSmits: accurate gravity simulation
sprkrd: that looks cool :D
sprkrd: and the mod looks very nice
MSmits: I also wrote a mod that used marching cubes algorithm to project asteroids
MSmits: and created models of grids
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia7-XIMny60
sprkrd: how do you do the actual checking whether there's a chunk of asteroid in a voxel? does the API provide you that functionality?
MSmits: if the game is running on your computer and the asteroid is rendered (within 10 km i think)
Astrobytes: Don't forget the sales opportunity of Your Sphere MSmits :)
MSmits: oh right, but that was unity, not space engineers
Astrobytes: Still apllicable
Astrobytes: *applicable
MSmits: sure, yes that was also C#
MSmits: the holo projector mod was actually used by a few thousand players
MSmits: but it broke on some patch
MSmits: some guy paid me to fix it which i did
MSmits: but then it broke again a few patches later
Astrobytes: looked very nice, I think I only saw your marching cubes one
MSmits: the channel also has a bunch of videos with me making weapons and targeting them
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InOfbI3tIbg
sprkrd: yeah, I've seen you're quite the influencer
MSmits: this one was pretty cook. a swarm of scripted 1 thruster bombs
MSmits: cool
sprkrd: oh wow
sprkrd: 2015
Astrobytes: looks more like a bomb than a cruise missile lol
sprkrd: you've been in this business a long time, mr. smith
MSmits: yes, the cruise missile was another video
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcQump_jPI8
MSmits: this one
Astrobytes: Still watching the other one, very cool
MSmits: yeah they are all poorly coded C# scripts, these arent mods
MSmits: thats just what the normal game allows
MSmits: which is what makes space engineers an awesome game
MSmits: you can place a programmable block and code it in game
Astrobytes: scriptable games are always fun
MSmits: in a really poor ide
Astrobytes: meh, fook that
Marchete: checklist for evil scientist
Marchete: cruise missile - check
Marchete: sharks with lasers?
Astrobytes: he'll need to team up with me for shark lasers
MSmits: I did make a robot, does that count
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWxt9m7CEhA
MSmits: it didnt do anything though, just looked cool
kysty: is there a way to see which lap you are on in coders strike back?
Astrobytes: very lul-ish
sprkrd: MSmits like Boston Dynamics!!
MSmits: yeah except it cant walk
Marchete: well, a giant robot
sprkrd: kysty from the code, no, no until you get to gold league
Marchete: hell yes, right to the list
MSmits: oh, another evil scientist one
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cccVaJ77XMA
MSmits: think this was one of my first
MSmits: it makes a wheel of missles, then explodes the center part and launches them all
Marchete: just add a nuclear warheaad and you are good to go
Astrobytes: Can we implant this in a shark?
sprkrd: I think they're called just "warheads", they don't specify whether they're nuclear or not
MSmits: yeah thats right
MSmits: I preferred using normal stone ore though
MSmits: accelerating with gravity generators
Astrobytes: Effective
MSmits: unfortunately other servers would delete them as rubble
Astrobytes: lol
sprkrd: you don't strike me as the type who goes on-line
MSmits: nah i didnt much, but sometimes people told me about stuff they tried
Astrobytes: highly accelerated rubble is surely as destructive as any other weaponry
MSmits: this is a really short video where i experimented with graphics modding
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIcQUcdOMpg
MSmits: wormholes
MSmits: never finished it though
Astrobytes: Thank god that wasn't emh style
MSmits: lol
MSmits: i would not do that :P
Astrobytes: are those potatoes
MSmits: those are stone ore thingies
Astrobytes: They're potatoes now
MSmits: sure ok
Astrobytes: :P
MSmits: unfortunately i could not use this for ships
Astrobytes: Nice though
Astrobytes: Why?
MSmits: because they are complicated objects consisting of many parts
MSmits: it would just all teleport at once
Astrobytes: Oh I see
MSmits: would look silly
MSmits: if I had not found CG I would still be making silly weapons in SE
MSmits: or stuff in unity i guess
Astrobytes: Well, I think we're all glad you found CG, SEs loss
MSmits: me too :)
sprkrd: I'm leaving now, good night everyone :)
MSmits: gn sprkrd!
Astrobytes: goodnight, all the best :)
sprkrd: idem ^^
Astrobytes: :D
JoshTheCodingMaster: hi
Marchete: you can't compare multis and challenges with all these script games
JoshTheCodingMaster: yes
Marchete: some AI "fights" are very interesting
JoshTheCodingMaster: uh huh
Astrobytes: I don't believe anyone was comparing the two Marchete
Astrobytes: Just purely on an MSmits basis
Marchete: it's about the competitive part
Marchete: most of us improved tenfold
Marchete: in algorithms and AI
Astrobytes: Yeah for sure
Marchete: being alone in these games
Astrobytes: In that respect, definitely
Marchete: you don't have any real objective
Marchete: do crazy stuff
Marchete: he'd miss us even if he never went to CG...
MSmits: yeah scriptable games are different, but SE goes quite far with this compared to other games, i dont think there's anything like it. I think you could build a board out of blocks, create an AI controlling a gravity engine and play checkers against it
MSmits: or let it play against itself
Marchete: minecraft seems similar
MSmits: only if you mod it
MSmits: it doesnt have scripting in a vanilla version
Astrobytes: Yeah but minecraft is a lot more long-winded afaik
MSmits: unless you mean that redstone stuff
Astrobytes: I never cared for it myself
Astrobytes: (minecraft)
MSmits: another huge difference
MSmits: minecraft has no physics
MSmits: stuff you make and control in SE has newtonian phyusic
MSmits: physics
MSmits: which makes AI much more interesting
Astrobytes: true
MSmits: mine craft is also mostly 2D
MSmits: as in, the world is infinite in 2 dimensions and in the 3rd it's finite
MSmits: i think like 130 blocks or so?
MSmits: SE is real 3D
RoboStac: so remind me never to think I can quickly test something to do with crazy int things :(
AllYourTrees: :scream:
struct: what hapened?
Marchete: sorry robo :(
Marchete: my fault
struct: I won 2 games vs robo?
struct: what sorcery is this
RoboStac: yeah, either I'm overflowing with new maths or the accuracy loss is too much
Marchete: a pity
RoboStac: though I did just beat msmits
RoboStac: so it's possible I might just leave it
Marchete: it was "faster" at least?
RoboStac: it's about 10% faster
Marchete: to do tests myself
Marchete: only?
RoboStac: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3f1b3aaf-6f89-4ec6-8df4-5288cd2e65e8
Marchete: from float?
RoboStac: no
RoboStac: from the int16 with 32 bit additions
Marchete: ahh
Marchete: bummer
Marchete: I thought near 2x
RoboStac: that's time to do 10000000 inferences
Marchete: because half size
RoboStac: and then the ouput from each (9 policy / 1 value)
Marchete: seems more inaccurate, yes
MSmits: did it stop using the same opening RoboStac?
RoboStac: it does look to have switched off the one you mentioned, yeah
MSmits: cool
struct: I think its a good time for resubmit :)
Marchete: so int8 is better?
Marchete: I always think that only 256 values are too low...
RoboStac: seemed to work for oware
RoboStac: my c4 training hasn't gone as well
RoboStac: but I did find I'd accidently made the network size smaller so I've restarted to make it fair
Marchete: but according to your stats you can do near 30k sims/50ms?
Marchete: that's way faster than I can achieve
Marchete: 3x faster with much bigger net
RoboStac: that's just nn speed though (using 1 gamestate and predicting as fast as possible, no mcts)
RoboStac: it tends to be around 20-25k per turn in reality
struct: you seem to get 1st again
Marchete: ahh ok
struct: might not be bugged
Marchete: even with that is reaaly fast :)
Marchete: aaaaaaa
RoboStac: yeah, the occasional wins against msmits help a lot to make up for the extra losses
RoboStac: think it's just less accurate rather than overflowing though
struct: still I never won so many games vs you
struct: might be luck on my side though
stef06: hey all
Marchete: sometimes when stars, weights and cpuct align I can win a couple
struct: ill resubmit to climb up a bit
RoboStac: I can easily switch back :)
struct: true
RoboStac: going to leave it and try the 8bit version once it's had more training time tommorow though
struct: still a massive improvement from the old NN you had when I joined c4
RoboStac: only about 30x as many moves checked per turn :)
struct: makes sense
struct: my ai with 5ms was around 3-4 ranks lower
RoboStac: convolution looks really good but is so slow on cpu
Marchete: I flattened it
Marchete: not that slow
Marchete: as originally thought
Marchete: but maybe not worth it vs a faster dense?
RoboStac: doesn't seem to be
Marchete: in c4 you tried both pure Dense and Conv?
RoboStac: yeah
Marchete: do you pit them?
Marchete: just as a curiosity :D
RoboStac: no
Marchete: so Conv2d was better?
RoboStac: dense does much better on the leaderboard
Marchete: ahh
Marchete: bummer
RoboStac: I think the same number of iterations conv would be better
Marchete: my bot is very sensitive to mcts iterations
Marchete: it's noticeable
RoboStac: especially on c4 when the endgame is a lot about solving number of moves left it struggled
Marchete: :(
struct: the problem of my bot is that is very bad early game
Marchete: I wanted to try Conv, I just finished the layer definition and worked good
RoboStac: I've still got conv as better in breakthrough and yavalath
struct: I dont think NNs face this problem
struct: isnt endgame also important on breakthrough?
RoboStac: yes, but it's endgame in a pattern around your best pawn
struct: actually I remembered the paper I read and I remember end game is not that important
RoboStac: in c4 you win by making moves in entirely random places that don't lose until the opponent is forced to play where he'll lose
struct: game is decided early actually
Marchete: I wouldn't say random
Marchete: as it can be solved
Marchete: with enough time
MSmits: workin on it. 72 million nodes and 6GB so far
Marchete: :thumbsup:
MSmits: Robo is right that with a 1 or 7 start, there are no winning moves, only draws and losses
MSmits: so you do indeed wait for someone to make a mistake
MSmits: but there are a lot more mistakes than draws
struct: is 0 8 proven loss?
MSmits: I have 4.5 million games in that and it's at 32%
MSmits: WR
MSmits: seems pretty certain to be a loss, but not proven no
MSmits: 5 is best counter
MSmits: (to 0)
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ef0820b9-70d2-4ded-8ca1-31b8f6ee95fb
MSmits: i maybe need to fix my exploration parameter so that it makes more visits in initially bad moves
MSmits: still though, a visit is an entire game played as on CG. So 4.5 million is a lot
struct: each visit is 1 solved node?
struct: or is just the expanded nodes?
MSmits: 1 visit is 1 new node made from a node thats not yet fully expanded
MSmits: sometimes that new node is an immediate solve when a game is run, sometimes it doesnt solve
MSmits: so the tree stops at nodes that are immediately solved when a game is played from there
MSmits: for wins/losses it's around depth 30 or so
MSmits: for draws much deeper
MSmits: 40/45
MSmits: so that makes it quite hard to solve, as it seems to be solving towards a draw
MSmits: I think if i went full focus on move 3 and pretended this game had no steal, I could solve it
MSmits: but that doesnt help my book any :P
yes420: Does anyone know how to stop the min command from reporting errors, since right now I have a program that includes using the min command to find the lowest number in a list, but when the list is empty, the min command just stops the code, which I don't want
WhaIe: @yes420 if you're talking about python, you can add an argument default=X. For example, min([], default=0) will return 0
shaurya_123: hi anybody online
FrancoisBaveye: Nope
tduck973564: Mfw
