jacek: rick roll eh
jacek: oh my https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4239365
relay: :rabbit:
MSmits: With that article, and well.. you, I feel like I am learning a lot about the Polish :)
MSmits: that cactus though.. lol
MSmits: if anything was singing cocaine rap songs it would have to be a cactus like that
Marchete: ok, I'm getting Conv2D to work
Marchete: but it's painfully slow....
jacek: c4?
Marchete: any board with neighbours
Marchete: c4 first
Marchete: maybe spring challenge later
Marchete: I precalculate the output per each 1.0 input, and I keep that in a weight[totalInputs]
Marchete: so this way it's similar to a Dense layer
Marchete: output = bias + sum(inputVal * weight[inputindex])
Marchete: but, it's slow...
jfaixo: in which language Marchete ?
jfaixo: I am not arrived at the "reimplement the feed forward" part of my journey, but I suppose one will want to look at SIMD optimized implementation
Marchete: C++
Marchete: and it has SIMD
jfaixo: ok :) long journey incoming ! :D
jfaixo: just found that paper, i'll add it to me "to read" list : https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.05567.pdf,
jfaixo: my*
anton123401: Hello
Marchete: my Dense layers seems fast
Marchete: Conv2D isn't
KP56: my cpp clock tells me the code has been executed in 95ms, but i still get a timeout...
KP56: in UTTT
sprkrd: what are you measuring, wall or user time?
sprkrd: KP56 clock() or steady_clock::now()?
Chonapatc: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/5d33779d-01ea-4eaa-b62d-2a6fd1e37703
KP56: clock()
KP56: sprkrd
sprkrd: better use steady_clock::now()
sprkrd: I think CG measures real time, not CPU time
sprkrd: with real time measures you will be more conservative
KP56: ok
KP56: thanks
sprkrd: also some people recommend doing 90 ms or so... I've never cared for that, I want my full time budget of 100 ms and I don't get timeouts even if my function takes 100.something ms
sprkrd: but of course, you may have to consider doing 95 ms or 90 ms if that doesn't work for you
princess_of_zeal: I was wondering, if there is a C equivalent of steady_clock::now() or would you basically say that one should always use C++ over C for these problems?
sprkrd: there's an equivalent for C for measuring real time, of course, but I'd say it's platform dependent
sprkrd: I think gettimeofday is an option?
sprkrd: but that's just for unix-like systems
RoboStac: you probably want clock_gettime with CLOCK_MONOTONIC
RoboStac: but yeah, theres not a standard way across platforms
sprkrd: yeah, I'd say clock_gettime is what you wanna go for
sprkrd: at least for CG
geppoz: well found another weird JS behaviour :D
princess_of_zeal: thanks! I basically hate C/C++ and I'm just using it because of performance ;-) any chance Julia is coming to CG?
KatMan911: Stupid beginner question - can I turn off this chat and take it off my screen for good? I've just started, and the site insists on opening and showing me new things I'm not interested in.
sprkrd: You hate C/C++? You break my heart
geppoz: 3599627370496>>38 guess what says JS ?
sprkrd: KatMan911 yup, append ?disableChat to the end of your URL, dunno why that option isn't more visible
geppoz: (it is inside the max integer declared 2^52)
princess_of_zeal: I guess I only hate C++, C is fine ...
sprkrd: I think I've been told that a few days ago (precisely by RoboStac, if my memory doesn't fail me :) )
sprkrd: princess_of_zeal My heart is still broken :(
KatMan911: sprkrd - thanks!
sprkrd: KatMan911 welcome
Marchete: I've finally added Convolutional 2D to my NN inference, but I think it's sloooooow. 14x slower than simple Dense
Marchete: https://github.com/marchete/Mokka
JosephTheVibin: Hey, new here. How does the input work? Is it just a string with multiple lines ?
KP56: in the puzzle description you get an information about what data you receive in input
KP56: if you are using python, input is a string you need to parse
MSmits: Marchete did you also add those performance improvements you found earlier (for simple dense networks)
MSmits: I think it was one hot optimization
HassanAli4651: can any one help me in this?
Marchete: yeah
MSmits: that's really cool, thanks for sharing that
Marchete: I precalc any conv per input
Marchete: so each inputs adds some weights to output
HassanAli4651: The game mode is REVERSE: You do not have access to the statement. You have to guess what to do by observing the following set of tests:
Marchete: if input ==0.0 it skips
Marchete: 1.0 is addition
Marchete: etc.
KP56: we cannot help you in COC since it would be cheating sorry
MSmits: makes sense
HassanAli4651: what
KP56: you are literally competing against other people
KP56: we cannot help you
MSmits: HassanAli4651 coc is competitive
Marchete: but maybe I'm doing something wrong
MSmits: if you want help, try doing practice puzzles
Marchete: anyways I'll plan to use it for a C4 bot
MSmits: Marchete probably everyone is doing something wrong and it's just a matter of degree :)
Marchete: what I have doubts it's how I can add/concatenate non grid inputs
Marchete: e.g. on spring I have the grid + external values
MSmits: i dont know enough to give you advice there
Marchete: those external values shouldn't go into conv
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: well you can skip the layer
Marchete: I guess adding it after the conv
MSmits: just pass it to the next layer unchanged
Marchete: I can't "break" things on c++ if tensorflow doesn't do the same
MSmits: maybe this eats into the simplicity of the keras model though..
Marchete: grid inputs -> conv
Marchete: other inputs->dense
Marchete: then concatenate conv+dense
Marchete: and do a second dense on combined
Marchete: too messy :confused:
MSmits: mmh don't you just put everything through conv, but you mask the input thats supposed to go to dense, then everythign goes to dense, but you mask the conv input. You keep the process linear
Marchete: 2 inputs -> concatenate->2 outputs
Marchete: I can have 2 inputs without any problem I guess
Marchete: inputs are just used when needed
MSmits: right
Marchete: I'll tell you once I work on C4
Marchete: Conv2D are messy
MSmits: sure
Marchete: I'm still not sure I implemented it 100% correct
Marchete: stride, paddings, kernel, etc etc
Marchete: but... it gives the same output as TF
MSmits: I'm not sure if C4 is the best place to do this
Marchete: just as expected
Marchete: why?
MSmits: because it's so close to being solved
MSmits: it's hard to beat non-NN's
Marchete: solved games are in fact better
Marchete: simpler to check if the best move is accurate
Marchete: if you mean it won't go high in leaderboards
Marchete: then well
MSmits: thats true, but you're sooner to think your bot failed when in fact it 's just beaten by brute force
Marchete: it's OK
MSmits: ah ok
Marchete: but it's good to test Conv2D
MSmits: well as long as you go in with that in mind it's fine i guess
Marchete: it has only grid2D inputs
Marchete: no score, sun or whatever
MSmits: well you have to know whose turn it is, unless you flip it, which you should
MSmits: then you lose that input requiremebnt
Marchete: I'll flip, as in oware
MSmits: good
Marchete: I just need what to do about steal
MSmits: oware can be done scoreless too
MSmits: but it's messy
Marchete: I hate oware with "passion"
Marchete: I don't want to touch it anymore
MSmits: hehe not me, I am indifferent to the game
Marchete: rules are cancer
MSmits: well that's only annoying when you need to write the sim, once thats done its np
Marchete: even Robo had some endgame issues until recently
MSmits: oh right, the last turn issue
Marchete: no, it's not
Marchete: you may think it's OK
Marchete: but maybe it's not
MSmits: mmh maybe
MSmits: but that's mostly due to the way it's implemented on CGT
MSmits: CG
MSmits: with the turn limit
MSmits: that makes it messy
Marchete: I needed to DL a lot of replays, parse them and validate vs my simulation
MSmits: for training I dont need it to be accurate
Marchete: C4 seems simple
MSmits: at least in regard to turn limit
Marchete: simulate(move)
Marchete: check if isEndgame()
Marchete: no other BS
MSmits: you don't have "turns left" as input right?
Marchete: no
MSmits: then for training, the sim doesnt need to be turn-sensitive
Marchete: this can be problematic
Marchete: but well
MSmits: well i've proved many times over that turnsleft matters a lot
MSmits: it gives different "best moveS"
MSmits: but the search can fix it
MSmits: if you go deep enough
MSmits: so for eval you probably dont need it
MSmits: also endgame book fixes part of it
Marchete: I think I don't go deep enough
MSmits: well at the end you may
Marchete: I've seen loops that at start seemed a good move
Marchete: and in the end it was a loss
Marchete: you know
Marchete: those cycles with low seeds
MSmits: yeah, it only needs +2 seeds or so and it's a loss. Since the game is near to or exactly solved as draw...
Marchete: that just rotates
MSmits: yes, but i solve those with endgame book if they are totalling <= 9 seed
Marchete: I don't
MSmits: i have also seen the other NN's mess up there
MSmits: but usually they dont
MSmits: just sometimes
Marchete: mine does
Marchete: I waste first turn building up MCTS trees with visits
Marchete: to further turns
MSmits: is this jacekmax or ept btw?
MSmits: do you average or max?
Marchete: no, A0 like
Marchete: average
MSmits: thats ept i think
Marchete: similar
MSmits: well with policy i guess
MSmits: but the value is ept
MSmits: makes more sense to me
MSmits: I have to start using my 36 seed book still. It's pretty difficult to incorporate it in meta mcts book free
MSmits: turn free i mean
MSmits: my current meta mcts incorporates the turn
MSmits: but i will get loops now that select the same node
Marchete: will you do RL then?
MSmits: supervised yeah
MSmits: based on meta mcts 48-37, 36 seed book at 36-10
MSmits: the last 9 are unnecessary
MSmits: the hard part will mostly be what states to pick for training
MSmits: and in what proportion
MSmits: getting the values should be easy
Marchete: do you keep count of states?
Marchete: or visits
MSmits: in meta mcts the nodes will have visit counts yes
MSmits: the endgame book is just a list of all possible states with their values on perfect play
MSmits: (expected maximum seed score)
MSmits: it seems complicated that i have all the states, but they're not all states that would often occur in games
MSmits: so maybe I would have to randomly create games that select from the available states using some probability of picking worse moves
MSmits: even picking from endgame book this way, finishing games down to 9 seeds
Marchete: worse moves for what?
MSmits: for expected seed gain (player - opponent)
MSmits: so one move is 0, another is -2 etc.
MSmits: so 0 has the highest probability
MSmits: and then there's some decay for worse moves
MSmits: I eliminate score from the equation so it's all based on the maximum net seed gain
MSmits: I can use the network and just add player - opponent score to it
MSmits: because this represents the past gains
MSmits: in a sense this is what you guys are doing as well. You are using the score as input and this is combined in some way to maximize the score. Because that's all you're doing. Maximizing score = maximizing win probability
MSmits: i just take it out of the network and add it outside of it
Marchete: well
Marchete: my approach is different
MSmits: but you input score right?
Marchete: I don't have a solved game
MSmits: it has to evaluate the board so it has to combine the value for the score with the value of the board somehow
Marchete: if I had a "solved" game, I can just add a value 1/-1 and a policy with 1.0 on the best move
Marchete: and fully train that
MSmits: that might be worse in some way though
MSmits: not all wins are the same
MSmits: winning by +2 seeds should be less good than winning by +10 seeds
jacek: its kinda the same. we just dont have the luxury of perfect score
MSmits: no, but you dont want your bot to give away score
MSmits: otherwise it will weaken its position
MSmits: there has to be some gradual increase from worse states to best states
MSmits: well maybe the search can fix that because you average
MSmits: jacekmax wont do this though
MSmits: it's kinda like what re curse mentioned in his totozero bot, once it knew it lost, it stopped trying sometimes
MSmits: if it could somehow recognize the difference between states where he loses by a lot and states where he loses by a little, he could crawl back up
MSmits: the netscore-as-value thing can do this for you, at least in some games
MSmits: I have read papers that said that this was worse in games like D&B for example, but I think that conclusion does not translate to every other board game
jacek: d&b is all or nothing
MSmits: yeah, the nim game is central
MSmits: with some exceptions for games that are close
MSmits: I think score also doesnt work as a good evaluator in othello, since the score flips so much during the game
MSmits: pretty meaningless
stivens: Hi. Do you have any idea why Im getting such error when uploading contribution? """parse error: Invalid numeric literal at line 1, column 10
Generated id: """. As you can see, this error message is kinda useless :/. Full log: https://pastebin.com/HgmsLRuK
BlaiseEbuth: So. Have you checked the 10th column of the first line ?
stivens: Of which file? XDD
stivens: Error doesnt specify that
BlaiseEbuth: Don't know. But you don't have so much file (I speak of the files you writed/edited), and one position to check in once...
BlaiseEbuth: *each not once
BlaiseEbuth: I'm tired...
stivens: I think my files are ok. The game works fine in my local machine
BlaiseEbuth: Random guess: What about your stub generator file ?
stivens: stub.txt:1 "gameloop"
BlaiseEbuth: That's all ? Nothing else in the file ?
stivens: its the first line
stivens: "parse error: Invalid numeric literal at line 1, column 10
Generated id:"
stivens: https://pastebin.com/kMW0FtkF
JohnyDaison: could it be windows vs linux line endings?
stivens: Which one is prefered? \n or \r\n?
BlaiseEbuth: The site environment is on Linux
TipuTare: while True: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/95880944-9aa4-495c-980b-f4e9483ba9ee
TipuTare: whats wrong with this
TipuTare: code
BlaiseEbuth: Your attitude?
TipuTare: sorry
TipuTare: but can you tell me
stivens: Im Linux user so there should be \n encoding
stivens: Ill check it for sure
BlaiseEbuth: Perhaps the problem isn't that, or even not in that file. That was just an idea since the stub isn't needed when you run locally...
stivens: od -c stub.txt
0000000 g a m e l o o p \n \n r e a d n
JohnyDaison: TipuTare your question is not specific enough. What do you want it to do and what is it doing?
stivens: second line is empty, thats why there is \n \n. But there is no \r character
TipuTare: well
TipuTare: its the puzzle pwoer of thor episode 1
BlaiseEbuth: So that's not the problem...
TipuTare: it needs to get to a specific location
TipuTare: but in test case number 2 its going down instead of up
JohnyDaison: Well, does y increase in south direction or in north direction?
TipuTare: it goes south instead of north
jacek: because you print S instead of N?
BlaiseEbuth: :o
jacek: and you have something like initial_ty = initial_tx - 1
jacek: is this alright?
TipuTare: i messed the ifs
TipuTare: it should be < 0 to go south
jacek: thats not the only problem
BlaiseEbuth: Right. It's in python
sprkrd: Yo TipuTare, check lines 3-4
TipuTare: ithose do nothing
TipuTare: i fixed the code
sprkrd: what? lines 3-4 In your pastebin
jacek: :tada:
sprkrd: I don't have access to your IDE code :joy:
sprkrd: good then
ValidityFail: Hello, everyojnen
whylikethat: hello fren
ValidityFail: Is it possible to save a puzzle error output to a file?
sprkrd: ValidityFail Not that I know. Why do you want to do that? Is the error so long that it doesn't show completely in the IDE?
ValidityFail: yea
TipuTare: hey
TipuTare: i got a problem with a code can someone help me?
ValidityFail: sure
BlaiseEbuth: Change of language, or don't make error.
whylikethat: try searching the error that you have without the stuff you cant see
TipuTare: while True: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/99122b5a-3dc0-42d2-b1bc-0dadfc92b1db
sprkrd: ValidityFail no idea, then, sowwy, you'll have to circumvent that and work with what you see :(
TipuTare: i get a error on the fourth test case of power of thor episode 1
TipuTare: u can put the code there
BlaiseEbuth: What code?
sprkrd: TipuTare lemme guess, before you changed every S to a N and vice versa, and now your Thor is walking left instead of right? :)
TipuTare: nope
TipuTare: like
TipuTare: its going SE
TipuTare: then difference y == 0
TipuTare: and its still going SE
TipuTare: Game information:
Thor's moving...
Thor position = (17,17). Light position = (36,17). Energy = 19
TipuTare: it should go E
geppoz: operator precedence "==" and "and" ?
sprkrd: geppoz nah, that's alright, == takes precedence
sprkrd: code would look like lisp otherwise
BlaiseEbuth: Origin is top-left.
BlaiseEbuth: and y increase when you go south
BlaiseEbuth: You're doing the inverse
sprkrd: yup, pretty much that
therealbeef: you also have a copy paste error just below halfway
geppoz: my grandpa said "parenthesis are free"
geppoz: so wise man
sprkrd: your grandpa is a lisp practitioner
SherlockSage: good parens are free.
good parents are priceless
sprkrd: oh god, didn't know we had so many lisp fanboys here
sprkrd: the cult of the parenthesis
therealbeef: initial_ty = initial_tx - 1
TipuTare: i aw the copy paste error
TipuTare: but it doesnt change the result
TipuTare: origin is top
TipuTare: oh
sprkrd: also, my I suggest something, TipuTare... you're doing thor_position - light_position. Usually (at least for me) you want to think the opposite way (target - your_position). It's easir to think of a vector that goes from where you are to where you want to go than of a vector that goes from your target to yourself
sprkrd: may I suggest*
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah... That's why reading the statement is sometime useful...
TipuTare: yeah but i need to change the entire code
TipuTare: and ahhhh
TipuTare: im lazy
TipuTare: while True: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b7ccff7c-da82-4c3e-9212-4be2fec14c6e
TipuTare: i changed the thing with the origin
sprkrd: I mean, you have to change the entire code anyway at some point, those 8 cases are a bit too verbose :D
sprkrd: you'll see when you submit your first working code and can study other's solutions
punter147: hello all, i had a doubt on the sokoban puzzle problem. rn i am using A* search and have cooked up what should in principle work. Should i be finding the solution in the 10s alloted in the beginning or should i also use the 50ms time allowed in the later turns? In other words, should any good AI converge and find the solution in the allotted 10s?
Wontonimo: Good question punter147. I haven't attempted https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/sokoban
Westicles: People have been doing it in a few ms, depending on language
Westicles: Most doing BFS
Wontonimo: do you know if it's common to use a hash of previous configs to remove duplicate states?
Westicles: I don't think so. Mostly just some pruning if time is an issue
geppoz: Wontonimo yes
geppoz: in this game it makes no sense to be in same state 2 times, where state is pusher+block positions
geppoz: (so I just don't add to the tree a state already explored)
geppoz: punter147 I think everyone solved all in first turn, then playback the solution, I wonder if someone really explore during next turns...
Westicles: man, look at that guy. 17 contribs
BlaiseEbuth: Yup and all above a 0 score.
BlaiseEbuth: Except one that has 0.
punter147: geppoz oh i see, ok then i will do the same.
punter147: BlaiseEbuth :joy: who are we talking about?
Westicles: And 18 more approved in the last couple months
BlaiseEbuth: :zipper_mouth:
punter147: BlaiseEbuth oh i see. well congrats to the person then.
Westicles: join /ru
Westicles: oops
jacek: :scream:
PatrickMcGinnisII: Happy Blow Shit up day!
Westicles: Many people don't know this, but the USA is actually the oldest country on the planet
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh, so we are doomed to fail then
PatrickMcGinnisII: i think france is 7 years older
PatrickMcGinnisII: hence their support
PatrickMcGinnisII: *shrug* Not a history person
Westicles: oh, not really. I was just trying to get the euros stirred up so I can ask golf questions
geppoz: someone would say that some sioux tribe would have been older if... :D
Westicles: Well, actually those guys came 2nd and killed the first wave guys.
pci: Sokoban is giving me trouble 3-4 and 3-5 timeout... all others pass.. wish I could see the final time to see how close I am.
geppoz: you could launch on your computer with same input
pci: when I run sim on my computer it's 7-seconds... not sure how my PC compares to the server.
pci: I can time all the others and they are 2-seconds or less on the server... thought it was strange these two stand out.
PatrickMcGinnisII: well there's 30 test cases on sokoban
PatrickMcGinnisII: I did it in php
PatrickMcGinnisII: test case 27 is the longest
pci: my solver does 27 in 0.4 seconds... must be something weird about my algorithm... but just a simple wide path search
PatrickMcGinnisII: do you hash explored boards?
PatrickMcGinnisII: if not you are probably re-exporing bad solution leafs
pci: Yeah... I'm using C# which probably isn't helping, but think I'm pretty optimized with no dynamic memory.
pci: HashSet<ulong> encoding player position and boxes in ulong
PatrickMcGinnisII: it is a straight BFS w/ a hash, worked for me, php is slow compared to c#
PatrickMcGinnisII: my time on server using php on test case 27 is exe time:3.4612550735474
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm not using recursion
pci: maybe my invalid move check is too simple... pushing boxes into walls, boxes and corners
PatrickMcGinnisII: precompute a map with valid box positions
PatrickMcGinnisII: maybe speed it up, but still should run faster than 10 seconds
Runner87: how many slow is python than c++?
PatrickMcGinnisII: depends on how good you are, but i would say 3 to 6 times slower
pci: I do precompute bool[] Wall -- but check box offsets for each step
Runner87: Sokoban BFS test case over 10 takes 45 seconds ! Maybe I do something wrong
PatrickMcGinnisII: well boxes can't be in a corner, and a few other places
PatrickMcGinnisII: if you have an recursion in there, get rid of it... you can explore the entire breadth of the tree at each depth quite easily, I think all of them solve in under 200k nodes
PatrickMcGinnisII: total
PatrickMcGinnisII: i think i counted them at one point, i think one testcase was 129k board states
PatrickMcGinnisII: easily doable in 10 seconds
PatrickMcGinnisII: my board is one linear array of 121 bytes. hashset of boxes and player loc in a ulong should be fine as well
PatrickMcGinnisII: I spent alot of time with sokoban, like a week ... so don't get discouraged
jacek: i thought it was doable in 10 seconds?
PatrickMcGinnisII: actually in C++ prolly 1 second, but i used php
PatrickMcGinnisII: smart alec
pci: I am doing a breath first search... I'll keep at it, might covert to C++ to see if that helps.
pci: breadth?
PatrickMcGinnisII: breadth and butter
pci: I'll try holding breath... I can do 10 seconds.
PatrickMcGinnisII: just did "Cosmic Love" overkilled it with BCMATH, smh...oh well. i'm done for today. glhf.
Malek_BOUFAHJA: Hello all
Malek_BOUFAHJA: I'm new :)
BlaiseEbuth: Hello new, I'm Blaise
Malek_BOUFAHJA: nice to meet you
jacek: :no_mouth:
Kervyi: hi imm new and I have a big incomprehension on the game tests . hope this chat is useful
MSmits: it should be, we are big on comprehension
BlaiseEbuth: Hi. Hope you know how to ask.
Kervyi: yes I do thank you very much
BlaiseEbuth: Great.
mao_fujita: Can somebody explain how the Parse SQL Queries work here? I'm brand new to CodinGame and confused by what to submit for SQL.
BlaiseEbuth: You mean the puzzle "parse sql querries" ?
mao_fujita: yes
mao_fujita: I didn't find the SQL in the language
BlaiseEbuth: You don't have to use sql
BlaiseEbuth: You have to write an 'interpretor' for sql
mao_fujita: I'm using python 3. So in this case, just print out what is in the sql table?
BlaiseEbuth: In function of the given request yes
mao_fujita: but print(table_row) only prints from the second line of the table.
mao_fujita: I'm really confused here.
mao_fujita: Also, is there a way to do the real SQL practices?
BlaiseEbuth: No sql on the site no.
mao_fujita: Ok, thanks.
punter147: hello all, its me again, i was wondering what is the heuristic yall used in sokoban? i used the manhattan distances of the closest not taken target for each box
BlaiseEbuth: About table_row, that's normal. The variable is overwritten each turn of the loop.
BlaiseEbuth: In all the puzzles you have to store the given data by yourself.
mao_fujita: I mean it starts from printing out the 2nd row but not the first.
mao_fujita: well, the problem now is how to print out the table_header
sprkrd: punter147 most people (me included) don't use any heuristic at all
sprkrd: in fact, if the heuristic is too heavy, it may do more bad than good
BlaiseEbuth: I understood what you said mao_fujita. But you don't understood what I said. :p
punter147: sprkrd oh do you use bfs? i am starting to question why i chose A* now :sweat_smile:
mao_fujita: BlaiseEbuth I think I get your point, my question now is about the table_header.
mao_fujita: I know the overwriting thing, just confused about how to print out the table_header.
sprkrd: punter147 yup, bfs with some pruning :)
punter147: sprkrd wow, i guess i will start implementing bfs on the side. Thanks for the tip!
BlaiseEbuth: mao_fujita take a look to the "input" section at the end of the statement. I think you don't understand how the inputs are given.
mao_fujita: ok, I'll look at it again, but thanks.
sprkrd: punter147 you can press on doing heuristic search if you really like, it's not impossible but it's harder
sprkrd: you sounded like you were describing the quadratic assignment problem, which is a well-known heuristic for sokoban (in fact, there are not many effective heuristics for sokoban...): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_assignment_problem
sprkrd: sorry, not the quadratic assignment problem, it's just the assignment problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignment_problem
Westicles: two sided BFS search is most common
eulerscheZahl: I just reused my sokoban solver I wrote for sokobanonline.com
eulerscheZahl: still in top100 https://www.sokobanonline.com/community/profile/eulerschezahl
sprkrd: two sided BFS is hard if you don't know the final position of your character, isn't it? Westicles
eulerscheZahl: there aren't that many final positions
eulerscheZahl: you just have multiple possible final states and expand all of them at once
sprkrd: and that works better?
eulerscheZahl: haven't tried, but i think it does
eulerscheZahl: tree size possibly explodes, the deeper you go
eulerscheZahl: (not for the testcases here on CG, these are relatively simple)
sprkrd: theoretically it should expand fewer states, but there are a few hidden constants here and there that may make it worse for smaller problems
sprkrd: I believe it should be better on the long run, though
eulerscheZahl: CG levels are toy problems, I didn't want to make it too hard
Westicles: yeah, two-sided came into play for an optim where you had to design longest paths. those had around a thousand turns and I had to anneal around it
sprkrd: I wouldn't say the ones in CG are the easiest ones, tho
eulerscheZahl: you did that for another website too Westicles? did Al Zimmerman host such a contest?
eulerscheZahl: my solver failed on most of the official sokoban levels
eulerscheZahl: too many boxes
sprkrd: eulerscheZahl thanks for nerd sniping me with that link (sokobanonline.com)
eulerscheZahl: but it's for human players actually
Westicles: not AlZ, but a similar setup
eulerscheZahl: i just wrote a small script but then stopped after reading their terms of service
eulerscheZahl: i found another sokoban website. but that one had no server-side verification of your solution, so I just placed 1st with 1 move takes to solve a level. was too easy :D
sprkrd: ah, ok, so you didn't solved 1500+ sokoban levels by hand
eulerscheZahl: only 2 or 3 to understand how to automate it
eulerscheZahl: and I did not solve 1500 levels in just 5h :P
eulerscheZahl: compare that to the profile of the player right above me: https://www.sokobanonline.com/community/profile/puri2725
eulerscheZahl: play time: 11 days to reach such a score
eulerscheZahl: and some non-optimal solutions. that gold trophy means that mine is the shortest path
sprkrd: oh god
eulerscheZahl: if i would keep going and climb the ranks, i'd probably just get banned :D
sprkrd: you also tackled the ones with portals, magnets, twins and all those fancy things?
eulerscheZahl: and i failed to submit proper web requests (weird API), so I sent key presses to move the player, then close the tab and open the next level in a new tab
eulerscheZahl: no, just the standard levels
punter147: sprkrd damn, and here i am trying to find a good heuristic function. I will start investing in breadth and butter :joy:
princess_of_zeal: Trying the Sokoban puzzle as well now - it feels like Bender - Episode 4 light :-)
princess_of_zeal: boxes instead of garbage balls and a pusher / bender ...
eulerscheZahl: bender was never supposed to be hard to solve, it's an optim game :(
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/space-maze
that's the hard one
Astrobytes: didn't hacker.org have a sokoban-ish game?
eulerscheZahl: do you mean pusher-boy? very different
BlaiseEbuth: The best in sokoban is ban
Astrobytes: hence the -ish
eulerscheZahl: no, the best is "soko"
eulerscheZahl: short for Sonderkommission
eulerscheZahl: some special police unit in German
princess_of_zeal: freilich
BlaiseEbuth: Like the ss ?
Astrobytes: No Blaise
BlaiseEbuth: Godwin point reached!
Westicles: you can make soko2 with this one
Westicles: http://sokoban-gild.com/podiumlev.cgi?which=R2_21
eulerscheZahl: that would break a lot of CG constraints
eulerscheZahl: so, Abalone
BlaiseEbuth: The best in abalone is alone
eulerscheZahl: i considered porting that too, was a bit worried that it would be too tie-heavy
eulerscheZahl: but now we get it, cool
Astrobytes: With the German and Belgian Daisy starting positions I believe it reduces chance of draws
Astrobytes: Also, they've made a few modifications to it that I cannot remember right this second
eulerscheZahl: that's what I would have used
eulerscheZahl: read the wikipedia about different starting positions
eulerscheZahl: when i was a child, I had that abalone PC game that I liked to play
Astrobytes: I suggested it to DomiKo yesterday
eulerscheZahl: but was a demo version, just valid for 14 days
Astrobytes: I had loads of games like that, some you could get around some not
eulerscheZahl: also had some mode modes. like holes in the middle of the board, on some cells
eulerscheZahl: more modes*
Astrobytes: That's interesting
Westicles: someone needs to port that kingkiller trilogy game...TAK?
BlaiseEbuth: This site more and more looks like this shelf full of board game you stand in front of, unable to decide what to play, to finally decide to play nothing...
Astrobytes: Be the change you want to see! :D
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah. This shelf need a big clean up.
sprkrd: BlaiseEbuth For instance?
Astrobytes: Still think some kind of categorical separation would be nice
eulerscheZahl: so 1 star votes to every game to get them removed by CG bot? :evil:
eulerscheZahl: :imp:
BlaiseEbuth: Already done
sprkrd: which games do you consider the worst?
Westicles: one of my clashes got relegated today. I thought it was a nice one
eulerscheZahl: i agree, more categories could help. also for community puzzles: easy, mediam, hard, expert, community
eulerscheZahl: and a chance for community to get promoted to the official sections if they are good enough
Astrobytes: Yeah, I agree with the puzzles too
jacek: 1 star for onitama?
BlaiseEbuth: Westicles: It was probably more complicated than a + b...
eulerscheZahl: no, onitama is fine as a tutoriakl
sprkrd: oh ok, if you mean for puzzles, yeah, big cleanup needed, but I don't think there's any multi that should go away?
Astrobytes: sprkrd: blaise was just being moany
sprkrd: Astrobytes :grin:
sprkrd: I think having all these games here is good even for AI research
BlaiseEbuth: 0.1% consideration...
Astrobytes: heh
eulerscheZahl: just some sub-categories for multis maybe. e.g. board games
Astrobytes: And yeah sprkrd, it's a really strong point of CGs platform
Astrobytes: Yep, board, physics, maze/grid or something. Would possibly encourage development of non-board games too
BlaiseEbuth: Good idea ez ! Lets put 99% of the multi in this category.
sprkrd: tha's not a bad idea
sprkrd: it's not 99%
sprkrd: maybe most games are board games, but it's definitively not a 99%
Westicles: You get legend in one multi and that's like top 2000?
BlaiseEbuth: Oh satan... People that don't get second degree...
jacek: hm?
Westicles: I can't figure out how pardo runs c code from go with only 42 characters overhead. Quite the puzzler
Wontonimo: more like top 5000 I think Westicles
katanaut: guys, can someone tell me, how do I print consecutive actions In games? I'm getting this error all the time: ``` your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction```
KiwiTae: its a warning
katanaut: do i need to use a setInterval-like function?
KiwiTae: it means u wrote your output before reading all the lines in cin
punter147: katanaut do you read all the input described in the input section?
katanaut: For example, i'm playing now Fall Action 2020 where i need to brew two potions. Which output i need to read before brewing second potion/taking second action?
KiwiTae: just check default code parsing
KiwiTae: uff pcr seem so rand
KiwiTae: oupsi im boosting the boss ~
jacek: oO
Marchete: Oo
BlaiseEbuth: OO
Wontonimo: oO
punter147: oo
BlaiseEbuth: Wontonimo -> []
Wontonimo: sigh ...
KiwiTae: Promoootion hehe
Wontonimo: where to Kiwi
KiwiTae: silver pokerchip
KiwiTae: with my broken sim :"=
Wontonimo: broken sim > no sim
KiwiTae: truuue
Wontonimo: what algo you throwing at piker?
Wontonimo: *pokerchip
KiwiTae: I swapped full random beams to GA
KiwiTae: and eval with area i control
DomiKo: fix your sim first
Wontonimo: area of the board, or area of your chips surface?
KiwiTae: of my chips
KiwiTae: DomiKo im trying but im retarded ~ i gotta read through the referee again
DomiKo: it isn't easy
Wontonimo: later
DomiKo: wasn't for me at least
KiwiTae: oh turned out 1st in silver ~ i might just resubmit and hope for the best
KiwiTae: maybe add a check for winnin frame so i just pass WAIT if i cant loose anymore
Salman2301: hi
binjn: hi
kitty_2310: hi I'm new
human37: whats up guys
okokok123: Hi guys
anton123401: Hello
