Chat:World/2021-06-03

Lueyung: Idk where to start

Lueyung: any sugg for a beginner

Chainman: heyyyy

Best-Coder12: My English and my coding are both bad. Now I can communicate with google translate. Does anyone know of a simple coding site?:sob:

Luj8n: codewars is a good one

Bye_Byu07: nice choice

Pick8chu: hihihi

Bye_Byu07: hoehoehoe

Butcher2013: join samsung sds

Butcher2013: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Dougie760: hi

Youcef_Abdellani: Hi

SHAIT: Hi

Chainman: hi

SHAIT: How you lot doing?

SHAIT: umm.... hello?

SHAIT: dickheads

SHAIT: jk

jacek: oO

SHAIT: JK man

Astrobytes: Ban next time,

jacek: NochillBytes

bltntLego: ppl acc use this. kinda cringe ngl

Astrobytes: What?

bltntLego: idk

bltntLego: im here cos of school

Astrobytes: Well go and learn

Astrobytes: Stay out the chat unless you have a question.

bltntLego: i guess

KalamariKing: That's what you're here for, isn't it? learning?

bltntLego: but like

bltntLego: is there any sort of lessons or sumthin

KalamariKing: If you're in class right now or your teacher wants you here, then you shouldn't be in chat

KalamariKing: This site isn't for learning/beginners, but more of practice/challenges

Astrobytes: Have you not learned any coding whatsoever in your class?

bltntLego: i have

bltntLego: python 3 basics

bltntLego: well

bltntLego: yes pretty much basics

Astrobytes: Which puzzle are you supposed to do?

bltntLego: so I'm in the Loops training

SHAIT: Hey man sorry for that lmao

bltntLego: im asked to do 3 loops puzzles

Astrobytes: You were told to do this or you chose it?

SHAIT: Its just banter

jacek: temperatures and the descent are easy

Astrobytes: np SHAIT but fix your banter :P

Astrobytes: Thor if you haven't already done it

bltntLego: i was told to do it

Astrobytes: Don't do anything outside of the easy puzzle section for now

bltntLego: ok i wont

bltntLego: thanks

KalamariKing: wait, ok, do some people adapt easy challenges into clashes? I swear I've seen this before

Astrobytes: Maybe some related subject or simplified version, possible.

jacek: time to convert space maze into clash

Astrobytes: :P

sprkrd: Nintendo would be even a harder one, wouldn't it?

Astrobytes: lol. Guess that depends on your mathematical and crypto skill level :)

sprkrd: At least in Space Maze you have a clear vision of what you have to do. It's an implementation challenge more than a conceptual one

jacek: so i would turn that into ascii. ezpz

sprkrd: I remember around the time I was working on the Nintendo problem, there was some notice that Nintendo was working on a new console. A year or so after that, I realized that they were probably talking about the Switch :O

sprkrd: Should I ever had an interview with them, maybe there would be a little part of me in the Switch (assuming my conjecture is right)

MSmits: hi there

sprkrd: Yo

KalamariKing: Hey

MSmits: 30 seed book finishing today. I am guessing it will have taken around 15 hrs

MSmits: then 31 will prolly take 24 hrs or so

MSmits: not sure if i will get to 36 in a reasonable amount of time even though I have the memory =/

sprkrd: what are you up to? Chess? You were talking about books yesterday too

MSmits: oware

MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/oware-abapa

sprkrd: And when you say books, you mean opening books?

MSmits: no, endgame books

MSmits: first solve all states with 1 seed, then 2 seeds, then 3 seeds etc.

MSmits: full game has 48

MSmits: realistically, i can get max 36 i think

MSmits: google could do 48 easily

sprkrd: oh god, will you be able to submit that to CG? Or is it just for local?

MSmits: local, but i want to use the data for supervised learning of a NN

MSmits: submitting to CG will be a bit hard. Total amount of data will probably be around 50-60 GB:P

sprkrd: I see. Dunno the game, but probably there are a lot of symmetries and rotations that you can exploit. Isomorphic states and all that

MSmits: there are not any

jacek: not much in oware

MSmits: none at all

MSmits: 0 symmetries

MSmits: just transpositions

sprkrd: Oh, hence my disclaimer about not knowing the game :sweat_smile:

sprkrd: My conjecture was purely based on the preview

MSmits: yeah, many games here have symmetries

MSmits: yavalath has 12

KalamariKing: jeez

MSmits: most have 8

jacek: those squares :unamused:

MSmits: nine mens morris is nice because it has 16 symmetries if i counted them correctly

sprkrd: Maybe you can start a distributed computing project to get you book for all 48 seeds

MSmits: you can exchange inner and outer ring

MSmits: sprkrd the problem is that you cant really distribute it very well

MSmits: you need to refer to all the lower books

MSmits: everywhere in memory

MSmits: bottleneck is lookups

MSmits: not calculation

MSmits: i am not sure if you can parallelize disk access

sprkrd: Mmmh, yeah, if it's +50GB you have to exchange information with the disk all the time

MSmits: yes

jacek: d you have SSD nvme?

MSmits: i have SSD yeah

KalamariKing: nvme or sata?

MSmits: hmm, not sure actually

sprkrd: Linux?

sprkrd: in linux you can list all the devices in /dev

MSmits: windows

KalamariKing: is it uber-fast or only mostly fast

sprkrd: if there's one device that starts with nvm, then it's nvme

sprkrd: ah, then dunno anything about windows

sprkrd: probably there's a way to know, too, should you be intereseted

sprkrd: interested*

KalamariKing: You could go through the properties tab on disk management, but ig it doesn't particularly matter

KalamariKing: Just be cautious not to overload the drive, flash chips only have so many write cycles

sprkrd: Use SMART regularly to run diagnosis and all that :relieved:

jacek: the limited write cycles isnt problem in typical usage

jacek: but is generating endgame books typical usage? :thinking:

sprkrd: I mean, when you install a modern game you can also end up moving around +60GB of data

sprkrd: So I would say it's not that bad

sprkrd: I did the calculation for my drive, and its lifetime in terms of write cycles is way beyond its lifetime on terms of other factors

sprkrd: SMART still shows a 0% "write budget" usage after 2 years

KalamariKing: Could have just had bad chips, but I killed a few blocks on my old ssd messing with nn stuff

sprkrd: couldve been older drive too. recent nvme drives have much longer lifespans

MSmits: endgame books is not typical usage :)

MSmits: I take 2 bytes at a time

MSmits: randomly

KalamariKing: yeah ok, that'

KalamariKing: s not bad

MSmits: could be anywhere on the disk basically

MSmits: with a large enough book

MSmits: i dont mean random but... just a full spread

MSmits: unpredictable

KalamariKing: I was reading a couple mb from the same bits, so they wore out

KalamariKing: like, a couple million times

MSmits: wow that happens 1?

MSmits: ??

jacek: from reading?

KalamariKing: writing and reading

MSmits: what do you mean only so many cycles, do you mean in its lifetime?

MSmits: or per second/

KalamariKing: didn't have too much knowledge abt 'optimization' and 'load that into ram

KalamariKing: yeah, lifetime

MSmits: I load everything in RAM that I can

MSmits: but it gets full :)

MSmits: using 30 GB for it atm

KalamariKing: how much ram you got?

sprkrd: Just another reason why NNs are bad :no_mouth:

KalamariKing: jesus

MSmits: I have 32

MSmits: sprkrd this is not typical for NN :)

MSmits: just the way i choose to do it

MSmits: NN usually tax the cpu/gpu or maybe tpu, not your SSD

sprkrd: MSmits No no, I was talking about KalamariKing wasted SSD

MSmits: ohh ok

KalamariKing: the only reason I wore out the chips is because I was using a potato laptop with a measly 2gb ddr3

MSmits: oh, this was using some kind of swap file because of lack of RAM ?

KalamariKing: Yeah pretty much

MSmits: I see

KalamariKing: But it was... diy, and not built at all smartly

MSmits: well when I use a meta mcts, I tend to store in a persistent dictionary, so thats a lot of drive usage also

KalamariKing: true, yeah

codin_computer: help

MSmits: is there some way to diagnose your SSD, to check how close it is to needing replacement?

KalamariKing: with>

sprkrd: MSmits I could tell you in Linux

KalamariKing: MSmits I use samsung magician, but my drive uses samsung flash

sprkrd: In Windows, no idea, but it must be easy, sure enough

MSmits: hmm ok

MSmits: knowing it's possible is enough, google does the rest :)

KalamariKing: windows doesn't provide much in the category of hardware testing, its all community

MSmits: I see

jacek: google smart ssd windows :?

sprkrd: (I'm not a Windows hater btw, but most of my technical experience is with Linux, I use Windows mostly for games)

KalamariKing: Yeah, same... linux is getting better gaming capability, but windows steam is better

KalamariKing: linux has much less overhead and much 'deeper' tools tho

KalamariKing: and the os doesn't hog 40% of your cpu at all times :eyes:

sprkrd: I don't like to mix things up. Even if Linux gaming was on par with Windows, having the "games" partition and the "work" partition feels natural to me

sprkrd: then I have a classic HDD I use to share files between the 2

sprkrd: Did the whole computer set-up myself. I take pride on that :D

KalamariKing: building too?

sprkrd: Yeah

MSmits: windows does not hog 40% of my cpu :P

codin_computer: hi sprked

sprkrd: Back when you could buy GPUs

sprkrd: Nowadays you can't

sprkrd: Yo, sup

KalamariKing: Yeah lol, not even prebuilts have them

codin_computer: remember me

KalamariKing: codin_computer you said you needed help? just ask

MSmits: I think windows uses 1% or less depending on what i do

codin_computer: yeah i fixed it

KalamariKing: nice

KalamariKing: MSmits lucky

MSmits: not really, it helps if you have a modern 10 core cpu :P

codin_computer: wow...

codin_computer: i think i need help actually

KalamariKing: I have an 8 core I think, r7 2700x

MSmits: oh thats fine

sprkrd: codin_computer yeah, I remember :relieved:

MSmits: upgraded from 4 core old cpu

KalamariKing: handles rendering just fine, so I'm sure its fine

MSmits: rendering should be done by gpu

MSmits: afaik

sprkrd: there's a benchmark for CPUs based on rendering

MSmits: oh I see

KalamariKing: that and I do 3d rendering

codin_computer: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

sprkrd: It's not its intended usage, is just for throwing some numbers on how fast you CPU is

MSmits: ahh

KalamariKing: codin_computer literally just ask

**codin_computer flips a table

codin_computer: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

MSmits: he's trolling

KalamariKing: probably

MSmits: was trolling yesterday

codin_computer: ???

MSmits: Astrobytes

codin_computer: are you a real teacher/

MSmits: yeah

KalamariKing: yeah he is

sprkrd: As opposed to a fake one? :thinking:

codin_computer: WELL WORK ON YOUR SPELLING AND STUFF

MSmits: ok

Uljahn: oO

codin_computer: :rage:

sprkrd: good heavens

Uljahn: Astrobytes

codin_computer: :rage:

KalamariKing: CPU rendering is better for smaller blocks, say 4x4 pixels (with cycles) GPU renders whole images faster (again with cycles)

KalamariKing: cpu just happens to be faster

MSmits: I barely use my gpu

KalamariKing: cycles is the name of the render engine byw

KalamariKing: btw*

MSmits: I have a 1060 GTX, oldest thing in my PC

codin_computer: /me..

**codin_computer /me = cool messages

codin_computer: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

KalamariKing: and ofc as soon as I get a job, and can finally afford something like a 5600x, there's none in stock

MSmits: :(

codin_computer: why is it telling me to do this https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/chuck-norris

KalamariKing: why is what telling you to do what

MSmits: to get you off our backs

MSmits: keep you busy

codin_computer: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

KalamariKing: oh that one was pretty simple codin_computer you should leave us alone and go do it

**codin_computer flips a table on MSmits

sprkrd: Mine is a RTX 2060S, which feels kind of wasted since I do not do DL at all. And my most recent interest game-wise is Factorio, which is not too graphically intensive :joy:

MSmits: DL?

sprkrd: Deep Learning

MSmits: oh ok

KalamariKing: y'all over here like "*just* a gtx1060"

MSmits: well not just, but it's my oldest component. Did not replace it because it's not critical for me.

MSmits: might become critical when i do serious training though

sprkrd: GTX1060 is fine

KalamariKing: training uses gpu, right

MSmits: or cpu

sprkrd: you could do it in CPU

KalamariKing: but its generally faster on gpu?

sprkrd: Generally

MSmits: i did my TTT experiments on cpu

MSmits: lots faster i think

KalamariKing: due to clocks+faster ram or just the sheer number of cores

MSmits: cores

MSmits: it's very parallelizable

sprkrd: With a large enough network it's faster

KalamariKing: wait a sec

KalamariKing: would the new crypto cards, with way too many cores for a normal person to use, be applicable to training

sprkrd: if your network is just 2 hidden layers with 10 neurons each, then it's faster in CPU :joy:

MSmits: yeah you need to actually parallelize stuff so need a big network

MSmits: dont know how many cores those cards have

sprkrd: Yours?

MSmits: but layers with 10k nodes are fairly common

sprkrd: For images, yeah

MSmits: I have no idea how big mine will be

MSmits: but needs to fit in CG limits

MSmits: so maybe 10k weights or so

sprkrd: For CG games, I'd say a layer with 10k nodes is a bit excessive :joy:

MSmits: 1 hidden layer

MSmits: oh right

MSmits: sorry

MSmits: weights

sprkrd: ah, right

sprkrd: 10k weights feels about right

MSmits: could be more, 50k even, depends on how you compress and what float type you use (could use 16 bit floats)

1rre: me and the boys using c to fit bruteforcing within cg limits

quality code right here

MSmits: but should not be needlessly big because of overfitting and performance

KalamariKing: The new nVidia CMP 40hx has like 300 tensor cores

MSmits: nice

Astrobytes: Please state the nature of your technical emergency.

MSmits: oh the ETH is here

Astrobytes: (responding to the ping)

MSmits: codin_computer was spamming

KalamariKing: ok, yeah, not great - twice the price for less cores

KalamariKing: shame

Astrobytes: Isn't he a troll?

MSmits: he is

Astrobytes: Kicked. Ban next time.

Astrobytes: Sorry for the delay. Was afk.

MSmits: thanks, it's good to have a ETH

Astrobytes: :D

KalamariKing: eth?

sprkrd: What's ETH?

MSmits: emergency technical hologram

Astrobytes: ^

KalamariKing: oh I see

MSmits: if you dont get the reference, watch more star trek

Astrobytes: Watch more Star Trek either way.

MSmits: yeah

KiwiTae: i never saw that show

MSmits: hmm, then a piece of you is missing

MSmits: mind not fully grown

MSmits: fix it :)

sprkrd: My favorite episode is the Data trial :)

MSmits: this is TNG I assume?

Astrobytes: That the Bruce Maddox one?

sprkrd: TNG, yes

MSmits: i only watched all TNG twice i think

MSmits: been a while

MSmits: DS9 I think 4 times, voyager 2 times, enterprise 2 times

sprkrd: Astrobytes Yes, Bruce Maddox

Astrobytes: I rewatched that after watching Picard

MSmits: I have amazon prime now, but watched picard less than legally. Normally wouldn't, but made an exception :P

Astrobytes: Heh heh. No comment!

Astrobytes: Tis excellent though. Must rewatch soon.

MSmits: yeah will rewatch it

sprkrd: Have to go, see you arouuuun d :musical_note: :notes:

MSmits: i mean there's only so many times i can do breaking bad

Astrobytes: later sprkrd

MSmits: later

Astrobytes: I need to watch Better Call Saul again

MSmits: not sure i will rewatch it. I thought it was good, but it's normally not the kind of shows i watch

MSmits: so one time might be enough

Astrobytes: Yeah, it was unusual for me too. I thought it was great though, to my surprise.

MSmits: is the boys season 3 out yet?

Astrobytes: Last season (6, Saul) is out next year

MSmits: ah ok will watch that

Astrobytes: Not sure. I've still to watch that. It's on my list

MSmits: it's awesome

Astrobytes: Must get around to that

Astrobytes: Yeah I've seen bits

MSmits: if you've seen the first 10 minutes, you cant stop

Astrobytes: I've seen clips. Not the first 10 mins, but that's what I heard yeah

MSmits: most awesome and horrifying opening to a show i ever saw :P

Astrobytes: I'm down for that

MSmits: it has a lot of absurd humor

MSmits: kind of like thor ragnarok, but less over the top and bloodier

Astrobytes: Absurd humour is good for me. It's pretty dark too right?

MSmits: yeah it's dark

MSmits: but could be worse

MSmits: it's not depressing or anything

Astrobytes: No, just dark.

MSmits: yep

Astrobytes: I've made a note for the weekend to remind me

MSmits: cool, let me know

Astrobytes: I will do

KalamariKing: are y'all nerds done yet

Astrobytes: Yep. Carry on :P

MSmits: lol

MSmits: oh I was wondering, do we have any bitboard resources on tech.io already?

MSmits: I mean people shared mcts stuff and such

MSmits: but not sure if they shared bit tricks

Astrobytes: e m h did a bitboarded BFS? I think

MSmits: oh right, I did too

Astrobytes: Other than that, not really no

MSmits: ok

MSmits: I was thinking to do one for uttt, maybe with a few examples from other games added on

MSmits: because uttt is kinda simple when it comes to bitboarding

Astrobytes: Sure. Would be useful and save a lot of time in the chat!

MSmits: Yeah

codin_computer: I AM NOT A TROLL

Astrobytes: behave or be banned

KiwiTae: Astrobytes o/

codin_computer: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN

Astrobytes: STOP TYPING IN CAPS for a start

KiwiTae: codin_computer you got all caps locked

Astrobytes: KiwiTae hey hey

codin_computer: well i wasnt spamming

KiwiTae: Astrobytes how the weather in scotland

KiwiTae: :kissing_heart:

Astrobytes: Not as nice as the past few days but sunny, about 18C

MSmits: too hot here

Astrobytes: The weather or room temp from your PC?

MSmits: well it doesnt take much before i think it's too hot. If my room doesnt have to be heated, its too hot

MSmits: lol

MSmits: room is large enough that pc wont bother it :)

Astrobytes: Fair. 30 seeds did I read earlier?

MSmits: yea its almost done

Astrobytes: Nice

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8156ba82-b726-4710-9a31-d7b6e079077d

MSmits: 5 states left that are still changing over turns added

MSmits: so maybe 1 or 2 more iterations

MSmits: 20 mins or so

Astrobytes: Impressive. How much further do do you think you can get? seed count wise

MSmits: 36 if i cache information required from older books in RAM, 37 and 38 seeds will not be able to use a cache because there is not enough room

MSmits: so that might mean it takes like a month, not sure

MSmits: so 36 is realistic

MSmits: but could be 1 day, then 2 days, then 4 days etc.

MSmits: to get from 31 to 36

Astrobytes: Still impressive.

KalamariKing: you could use virtual ram, if thats whats holding it back

MSmits: yeah its nice i wrote a verifier earlier, did 1 million samples over all books and no inconsistencies, seems to be correct

MSmits: KalamariKing virtual ram is just using disk space isnt it?

KalamariKing: windows has a feature where you can allocate disk space as ram, it may be slow but 32gb RAM + 2gb slow is better than 34gb slow

MSmits: yes, but when i am not using a cache for 38 seeds, it means using 29 GB RAM + around 90 GB slow :P

MSmits: so i am already using as much RAM as i can

KalamariKing: yeah, true

MSmits: cache needs to be about 60% of the full size of the book

MSmits: so at some point it just wont fit

MSmits: to solve the game I would need around 1 TB RAM

Astrobytes: Get downloading :P

MSmits: or just be really slow and use 1TB disk space :)

MSmits: lol

MSmits: oh btw, even if i solved the game, i would not have solved it on CG, because i assume no turn limit

MSmits: with turn limit I need to store a different result for each amount of turns left

MSmits: so 200x larger, or at least 185 or so

MSmits: my CG version with 9 seeds does this and thats why its only 9

Xzoky174: man.. programming is so harddd :tired_face:

MSmits: programming is relative to your task

MSmits: if you pick a task that is too hard, you dont learn and if you pick one thats too easy, you wont learn either

KalamariKing: I forget who but someone famous said it takes 10,000 hours to master something

MSmits: yeah its a good rule of thumb, but its hard to define this something

MSmits: for example you can subdivide a field

MSmits: and then it;s less to master

MSmits: so what is the "something"

MSmits: you can define it as "computer scientist" but then it's too general

MSmits: you might never have done machine learning

MSmits: also mastering riding a bike does not take 10000 hrs

MSmits: i think it's mostly supposed to be in the context of learning a profession

Astrobytes: Mastering it to be competitive might

MSmits: sure, but after 10.000 hours you're maybe too old :P

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: iterations: 60 different: 1 863 minutes.

Astrobytes: Nice. should be about 20 mins as you said then

MSmits: that means it just went through 3 billion gamestate and redid all moves and all states but 1 gave the same result

Astrobytes: Yeah, I figured it was something like that.

KalamariKing: 863 minutes?

KalamariKing: how do you have the patience for that

MSmits: for 30 seeds book yes

MSmits: it's just running in the background

MSmits: i can do other stuff. I wrote a verifier as it was running and also working on the meta mcts which will use the book

MSmits: meta mcts might run for weeks

MSmits: I like big projects :)

KalamariKing: :cold_sweat:

KalamariKing: I'll stop a project after like half an hour because its not optimized enough for my patience level

KalamariKing: GG my guy

MSmits: heh, well you have to do some effort to beat some of these guys, but I'm probably taking it too far

Pexxyz: HEHE

KalamariKing: what

Pexxyz: HEHEHEEEE

KalamariKing: I don't particularly wanna deal with spammers today don't make me ping a mod

Pexxyz: i wont spam

KalamariKing: you already are

KalamariKing: but thanks

Butanium: MSmits are you here?

Butanium: I just finished debugging my MCTS x)

KalamariKing: I think he's here, or at least lurking

Butanium: It bugged because I calculated the possible actions for the new node before doing the chosen action for it

darkhorse64: submit

Butanium: I did it but for now my playouts are completly random

Butanium: Which is quite bad

KalamariKing: I thought playouts are supposed to be random

Butanium: oh

Butanium: I forgot to change the exploration duration

Butanium: it has 1 ms to do the tree lol

darkhorse64: ofc smart rollouts are better but they cost also a lot which hampers the quality of the search. My C4 bot is stronger with smart rollouts but not that much

KalamariKing: :eyes:

MSmits: I'm here

MSmits: if you want an example of a game where smart rollouts matter, try yavalath

KalamariKing: He's here

MSmits: smart rollouts are everything there

MSmits: i think it helps in C4 as well, but did not do proper testing

Butanium: so for now you don't have any smart rollout for C4?

MSmits: no, I mean I do

MSmits: basically it works like this

MSmits: check if any moves you make give the opponent a chance to win next turn

MSmits: then dont make those moves

MSmits: random the rest

KalamariKing: ezpz

MSmits: the trick is to code it efficiently of course, but it should help even if you implement it less than perfectly

KalamariKing: how can your move make the opponent's move easier?

KalamariKing: we're talking ttt right?

MSmits: no, connect 4

darkhorse64: aka don't play losing moves

MSmits: yeah thats what that is

Butanium: That's exactly what I planned to add !

MSmits: cool, good luck :)

KalamariKing: but what about winning moves that would let the opp win next turn

KalamariKing: you've already won so that wouldn't matter

MSmits: well, my rollout has no winning moves

MSmits: because if the opponent has no moves that would not make you win,he auto loses

MSmits: so there are only losses in my rollout

MSmits: it's actually annoying, because if wins are never part of tree you have to get tricky to actually output a winning move at the end :P

MSmits: as it is not in your tree

MSmits: it's like chess

Butanium: I'm at 10k rollouts per turn ><

MSmits: if your king has no move left where he is in check, its checkmate

MSmits: Butanium a rollout is one random playout/

MSmits: ?

Butanium: yes

MSmits: thats very little

jacek: no bitboard eh

Butanium: I feel like ocaml is very slow at copying arrays

MSmits: but hey, if you're trick is to get the maximum performance out of a subpar language, you should be ok at some point. Otherwise you need to switch to c++ or rust

MSmits: o rc

KalamariKing: or c*

jacek: or asm

MSmits: right

KalamariKing: or hexadecimal

darkhorse64: bitboarding + AVX is like asm

MSmits: chess bitboarders keep close eye on generated asm

MSmits: I never did that

KalamariKing: avx?

MSmits: parallelized calculations

MSmits: without needing more cores

jacek: wonder if reBless fell into that chess hole

KalamariKing: how's that work

darkhorse64: the compiler generates code that is like the C++ code

MSmits: there's special registers

MSmits: that can multiply 8 numbers at the same time

jacek: do you know SIMD

MSmits: for example

MSmits: or do other simple functions

KalamariKing: I don't like that

jacek: oO

MSmits: whats not to like

KalamariKing: How can it multiply multiple numbers at once? wouldn't a in a*b contaminate c in c*d if they're done at the same time?

jacek: chances the good for loop is optimized to avx by compiler

MSmits: no, i dont mean like that

MSmits: i mean say you're using a loop

KalamariKing: oh hmm

MSmits: doing 8 things

MSmits: but they are independent operations

MSmits: why not do them all at the same time

KalamariKing: how tho

jacek: you have array of 8 numbers, then other array of 8 numbers. you can multiply them 8 times at a time

darkhorse64: Actually, my AVX code is not faster than my scalar code

MSmits: in C4

MSmits: but in othello it would be

MSmits: othello is great for avx

KalamariKing: this makes only a little sense, I'll just drop it here

darkhorse64: yep in othello

MSmits: KalamariKing it is really quite simple

MSmits: say you're having 8 numbers that have to be multiplied by 8 other numbers

MSmits: each separately

jacek: you can get over 300% speedup for some cases

MSmits: why could you not parallelize this?

jacek: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/283/sse-avx-vectorization/sseavx-c-frameworks

KalamariKing: I get how it works in theory, but in application, how can a processor do 8 things at once

KalamariKing: that's the issue

MSmits: they are very close in memory and its a very small amount of data, i dont know the exact physical process

jacek: ask cpu guys

MSmits: you can only do 8 or 16 of these operations at the same time

MSmits: depends on the type of variable

MSmits: int16 or int32 or whatnot

MSmits: CG uses 256 bit max

MSmits: so 8 x16

MSmits: wait no

MSmits: 16 x 16

MSmits: 8 x 32

MSmits: it's not a magical trick that always helps though KalamariKing, it's pretty rare to have situations where it's worth it

KalamariKing: Yeah

Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/283/sse-avx-vectorization/what-is-sse-and-avx

MSmits: but some boardgames are built for it almost

MSmits: chess can use it, othello can, probably a few others

MSmits: people do it on CSB

MSmits: (I still havent)

MSmits: on CSB you go from 300k simulations to around a million

MSmits: in 1 turn

MSmits: i've been tol

KalamariKing: this is so weird

MSmits: i can give you a very simple function that does it

MSmits: like 5 lines or so

MSmits: for uttt

KalamariKing: That parts' easy

KalamariKing: I just don't get on a hardware level, how

KalamariKing: Gonna go dive down the rabbit hole, brb

jacek: maybe this is pipeline stuff(?)

jacek: other interesting thing https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11227809/why-is-processing-a-sorted-array-faster-than-processing-an-unsorted-array?rq=1

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/56d66582-d211-4576-ae0c-14b3917f4104

jacek: cpus nowadays are so smart

MSmits: this checks all 8 winning lines for uttt at the same time

MSmits: for a miniboard

MSmits: so actually normal ttt i guess :)

Astrobytes: KalamariKing: The link I posted gives you a rough idea hardware wise

jacek: you dont have lookup for that? :o

MSmits: i do

MSmits: but this works too

MSmits: struct says its slightly faster, i never tested

MSmits: I wrote this myself, but struct made an improvement :)

BestProgrammist: Hello

KalamariKing: Hello!

BestProgrammist: what is yor name

KalamariKing: ask your mom

BestProgrammist: ha

jacek: oO

Butanium: I just realized something

Butanium: my MCTS

Butanium: play

Butanium: as the opponent

Uljahn: classic

Butanium: that's why it lost more with more playouts

MSmits: lol

MSmits: typical mcts problem

Butanium: I was like "lol it defend well but doesn't attack"

Butanium: aaaaah

Butanium: I thought it would be easy to fix it

Butanium: ><

MSmits: learning mcts is really a matter of hanging in there

MSmits: personally I would recommend doing minimax first

MSmits: it's simpler

MSmits: but for some games less effective

MSmits: once you have 1 game working, you can swap out the sim part of your bot and use it in other games

Butanium: doesn't minmax need an heuristic eval of the state?

Butanium: or I can just run it with no depth limit?

Astrobytes: Heuristic eval yes, and use iterative deepening

dmytrostrembetskyi: :dog:

MSmits: Butanium it does need a heuristic eval, but keep in mind that for many games, mcts does also

MSmits: oware can take 200 turns to finish. You dont want to have to do random playouts that long. Besides, the statistics become meaningless with that depth

MSmits: so you pick at most some depth and evaluate, then backpropagate the score

MSmits: instead of win/loss

MSmits: otherwise its similar

Butanium: ok I see

Butanium: But I have almorst a MCTS working

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: so dont give up :)

Butanium: I'll first try to fix it

MSmits: btw mcts was also my first search

MSmits: I learned minimax later, but it was much easier

Butanium: oh ok :o

jacek: or it was much easier because you did mcts first

MSmits: possible

MSmits: have workmeeting ttyl

KalamariKing: going back and doing some of the easy challenges that I couldn't do originally..... wow I was incredibly stupid

DuckKnight_quack69: @kalamariKing right now i feel stupid i cant solve anything:worried::sweat_smile:

KalamariKing: you'll get there

KalamariKing: idk why everyone in world hates clashes so much, but I got better by grinding clashes

KelvinAndHubbles: they're good if your trying to learn from them, but you can also just turn your brain off and do a lot and learn nothing

reCurse: Not sure what you can actually learn from them, but hey whatever works for you.

Lucky30_: you guys are wonderful

KalamariKing: thanks?

Lucky30_: not sure hhh

Lucky30_: weird question, why are there so many moderators

KalamariKing: i have the same question

KalamariKing: I think its because there has to be some online at all times

reCurse: They also tend to be selected amongst the most active, so there's that

reCurse: (which is the point)

Lucky30_: coool

jacek: whoever failed to run away becomes a mod

Lucky30_: hhhhh

Lucky30_: jacek how far are you?

RoboStac: he's still running

reCurse: Obligatory 'not far enough'

Lucky30_: hhhh

jacek: :(

KalamariKing: new goal: get mod

KalamariKing: AntiSquid will probably be mad if I keep pinging him so i'll stop

KalamariKing: sorry AntiSquid

Lucky30_: sorry KalamariKing

KalamariKing: when AntiSquid gets back online he'll have so many pings

KalamariKing: rip AntiSquid's inbox

Lucky30_: the more the merrier

KalamariKing: what would happen if everyone in chat rn were to collectively ping-spam AntiSquid

Lucky30_: some ppl do like being ping to eat, especially when it is free kalamar

KalamariKing: if you start sending me pictures of fried calamari istg

Lucky30_: what, you will run from your plate??

Lucky30_: how do i actually send pictures in cg

KalamariKing: AntiSquid usually just pastes links

Lucky30_: ow ok, easy enough

Lucky30_: are you free for some browing

Lucky30_: *browsing

KalamariKing: look another spelling mistake

KalamariKing: your soul is one typo closer to being mine

Lucky30_: not me

sprkrd: Is AntiSq*id's nickname a specific reference to you, KalamariKing?

sprkrd: Did he make his sole purpose to eradicate you?

KalamariKing: I think it's just a coincidence lol

Lucky30_: guys, KalamariKing just sent me a rainbow, what does it mean? peace??

KalamariKing: although now that you mention it... might be

KalamariKing: did you not see the rainbow was arcing into a dumpster

Lucky30_: ow ok, so no peace then hhhh

KalamariKing: the only peace I like is the pieces of your soul after your final typo

Lucky30_: he is planning to store my soul in a dumpster

KalamariKing: nah just the body

Lucky30_: please grant me the power of no-typo-ever-in-the-presence-of-KalamariKing

Lucky30_: please god, only this one life time

KalamariKing: there's no god up here but ME

clickers331: k

Lucky30_: god KalamariKing please grant my wish

StevensGino: I see the chat is pumping thank to 2 of you

WhatHowWhy: careful with those typos, friend, KK is watching.

Lucky30_: i hate it too, dont worrie StevensGino

Westicles: How should I rate this SHA-256 puzzle?

StevensGino: just kidding haha

Lucky30_: i know, we all afraid of the souls reaper

Lucky30_: you don't have to be ashamed of your self StevensGino

StevensGino: :D

Lucky30_: anyways, food time for me, the KalamariKing wont eat them selfs..

StevensGino: sleeping time for me, bb

WhatHowWhy: I'll just continue staring at this and hope the code pops into my head.

KalamariKing: I'm back underlings

KalamariKing: StevensGino thanks* to* Lucky30_ worry* yourself* themselves*

KalamariKing: disgraceful

KalamariKing: two souls to add to my collection, thanks

KalamariKing: WhatHowWhy what? how? why?

Uljahn: FunAtPartiesKing

1zaid1: are the standings sorted by code length?

Uljahn: in codegolf yes

FrancoRoura: Or in shortest mode clash

1zaid1: well that's stupid

1zaid1: I was the first to solve a problem and my rank is last

Uljahn: use bash/ruby/python [solved]

KalamariKing: it's called shortest mode because you need the... shortest code

FrancoRoura: The challenge is not to do it fast, it's to find the best language to solve it in the lesser amonut of chars in 15 mins

MidgetGauntlet: that sounds skill based

KalamariKing: almost like it were called... shortest mode

MidgetGauntlet: and super important to know

FrancoRoura: Award goes to the coder with a broader understanding of languages and their pros/cons

KalamariKing: isn't all programming skill based

FrancoRoura: I think it's a great challenge

JakubBiskup: hey can anyone tell me how exactly is Clash of Code ranking decaying?

Lucky30_: damn, KalamariKing does not grant wishes after all

KalamariKing: your wishes have been considered

AntiSquid: you can just bookmark the kalamari ring pictures KalamariKing

FrancoRoura: @JakubBiskup Someone else gets more points than you and your rank goes down by 1

KalamariKing: look its AntiSquid!

KalamariKing: AntiSquid did you get my pings

AntiSquid: pings are off anyway

KalamariKing: Lucky30_ I have just chosen not to care

KalamariKing: AntiSquid thats cheating

JakubBiskup: I mean the not playing makes you loose points part

FrancoRoura: Oh, that works like ELO in MOBA's or Chess

KalamariKing: JakubBiskup lose*

KalamariKing: Are you all just having a stroke over your keyboard and autocorrect does the rest? your typos are horrendous

FrancoRoura: Nah, we're just non-native speakers trying to do their best

Lucky30_: if only i could replace my Grammarly browser extension with KalamariKing

FrancoRoura: You know, like when you try to write in french, polish or german

Lucky30_: same FrancoRoura

Uljahn: indeed

KalamariKing: FrancoRoura our*

Lucky30_: hhhhh

Lucky30_: stop it

FrancoRoura: That sounds like communism but ok

KalamariKing: if you use "we're" you then have to use "our"

Lucky30_: KalamariKing how many souls do you have to take

KalamariKing: Lucky30_ more souls is more power, and I want power

FrancoRoura: are*

KalamariKing: generally, yes, but in this case 'more souls' is the idea, and it is a singular idea

Lucky30_: try not to get eating twice in a row, you would lose them all

KalamariKing: For that same reason, 'more souls MEANS more power' is correct

AntiSquid: i've seen some good kalamari ramen video today, can't find it though, it's not in this link, but close enough : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5pKw6flFZE

Lucky30_: damn the power you have obtained through out the years

FrancoRoura: "more souls"* The quotation marks, the apostrophe, and the prime serve quite different purposes.

Uljahn: Automaton2000: the chat is occupied by grammar nazis, send help

Automaton2000: yes, but only if they are all in the same state

Branzz: shortest java header for code golf:

Branzz: import java.util.*;interface Solution{static void main(String[]o){

KalamariKing: Apostrophes and quotation marks both denote string literals in Python (although not most other languages) and therefore I don't care FrancoRoura

KalamariKing: besides I'm the reaper here

FrancoRoura: I thought we were speaking English, not Python lol

AntiSquid: you don't have commas or quotation marks and you can use their in the sentence you mentioned KalamariKing ...

KalamariKing: Branzz thanks but I think java isn't the best for shortest

Branzz: Obviously not

KalamariKing: AntiSquid what?

Lucky30_: Uljahn the answer you got is so accurate.. so scary

AntiSquid: and besides the only serious grammar mistakes is confusing your and you're

KalamariKing: AntiSquid mistake*

Lucky30_: ok please just finish him..

AntiSquid: +s

Lucky30_: no food should ever be wasted

AntiSquid: Lucky30_ if that's true then he's a walking snack for his fellow americans

AntiSquid: nobody needs to do anything

AntiSquid: i see myself out, laters .

KalamariKing: you know I'm a snack ;)

Lucky30_: the sexy snack we all want to eat

Lucky30_: AntiSquid don't go, i will sell my soul for you

KalamariKing: it's not yours to sell my guy

Lucky30_: nooo

FrancoRoura: sell, my guy*

Lucky30_: hhhhh

Lucky30_: a never-ending game of typos

MidgetGauntlet: cant i write a line that says if ship_height is < mountain_height .... destroy

MidgetGauntlet: im new - keep the flames small

FrancoRoura: What language?

MidgetGauntlet: python3

FrancoRoura: if ship_height < mountain_height:

   print("smaller")

MidgetGauntlet: wowza, imma plug that in - thank you - at least my ideas arent abstract and seem to work

FrancoRoura: No problem! Just make sure those two are int and not str

KalamariKing: str will compare first-char-ascii-codes, right?

FrancoRoura: Yeah

FrancoRoura: So "10" < "2" is True

FrancoRoura: Cool for comparing iso dates, not so much for heights

Lucky30_: so "100000"<"20"

KalamariKing: Yes, because '1' < '2'

Lucky30_: because "1"=='1' && "2"=='2'

Lucky30_: hhhhh sorry

KalamariKing: wdym

FrancoRoura: Lol

KalamariKing: oh

FrancoRoura: He means your previous quote mispell

KalamariKing: ok listen here

Lucky30_: #ignore

KalamariKing: apostrophes are used for character literals, quotes for strings

Lucky30_: are you sure?

Lucky30_: i mean for js it is the same

FrancoRoura: And how does it work for English? @KalamariKing

Lucky30_: they dont exist in English

Lucky30_: hhhh

KalamariKing: Lucky30_ I think in java and the c family its like that

KalamariKing: I know it is for c++

Lucky30_: i see

Lucky30_: nice

KalamariKing: FrancoRoura A good programmer uses the most convenient language for a task

Lucky30_: you mean an op programmer

Lucky30_: a know-it-all kind of programmer

FrancoRoura: I usually choose what's more maintainable, which is usually what most people understand for a certain task

FrancoRoura: You know, Python for scripting/batch jobs, JS for websites/apis, etc.

KalamariKing: wait a sec

Lucky30_: i usually use (not choose) js for everything, since that is the only language i can say for sure that i can write with it

FrancoRoura: Unless the API does heavy computing, then I'd go with Go

KalamariKing: can you grab other object's attributes in css

FrancoRoura: Wdym?

KalamariKing: Is there a function in CSS that lets, say, object A grab object B's 'height'

Lucky30_: do you mean use an attribute of an element?

FrancoRoura: If your object is part of the dom then maybe, otherwise I don't think so

KalamariKing: YES

Lucky30_: maybe by using a psodo class

KalamariKing: https://stackoverflow.com/a/66297592/8010520

KalamariKing: who wants to start a challenge with me

Lucky30_: sure

KalamariKing: we have var(), calc(), and attr()

KalamariKing: can we make a functional program

KalamariKing: in css

FrancoRoura: https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/func_attr.asp

Lucky30_: nevermind

KalamariKing: coward

Lucky30_: never nevermind

FrancoRoura: You'll need HTML too, so I don't think CSS-only would do

Lucky30_: lets do it

KalamariKing: YES lets go

Lucky30_: what should we do first

KalamariKing: alright, someone come up with a simple project, like a hello world but a bit harder

Lucky30_: look for existing solutions on google

Lucky30_: so you are planning to display hello_world using just css and some element..

KalamariKing: yes

Lucky30_: easy

KalamariKing: as a proof of concept

KalamariKing: and then go harder, like a user-input two numbers and output the sum

Lucky30_: use ::before {content:"hello world"}on something

Lucky30_: easy

FrancoRoura: Your program gets an HTML string consisting of a paragraph with a certain height, return a css string that will increase it's height by one

KalamariKing: yeah, thats why i said "a bit harder" -- `content` is too easy

FrancoRoura: Although anyone could just do a template string

Lucky30_: content: calc(attr("a")+attr("b"))

KalamariKing: but how do you get a and b

Lucky30_: what else can you do beside content

KalamariKing: and can we make it a functional calculator, with buttons and everything

Lucky30_:

...

Lucky30_: not sure

Lucky30_: probably

KalamariKing: is there a logical break?

Lucky30_: since we have event like hover and click i guess we could try

Lucky30_: nop

KalamariKing: is there a workaround, with e.g. detecting if a value is negative

Lucky30_: as far as i can tell, we are limited on one content by element..

Lucky30_: you are asking the wrong guy

Lucky30_: try finding an expert

KalamariKing: alright help me think, two css noobs learning to program

Lucky30_: hhhh

KalamariKing: take 1+2

KalamariKing: well

KalamariKing: take 1+2==3

Lucky30_: you mean two css noobs trying to make the impossible

KalamariKing: yeah lol

KalamariKing: ok take nothing

KalamariKing: try this again

KalamariKing: checking variables? take x==3

KalamariKing: set a div's height to x, and use css selectors to test for any divs with height 3

Lucky30_: we cant change the attributes of an element using just css

wye: how do i do this

wye: its so hard

KalamariKing: how do you do what

wye: all of it

wye: i just found the website today

Lucky30_: try googling

Lucky30_: ow

Lucky30_: you mean what to do on codingame

wye: yeah

KalamariKing: this site isn't for beginners, its more for practice and competitions for seasoned programmers

Lucky30_: go to Activities>Practice>easy

wye: alr thanks

KalamariKing: and noobs trying to use a non-language (e.g. css) as a language (e.g. build a calculator)

FrancoRoura: @wye You will see that each challenge requires a set of skills

Lucky30_: style sheet language?

FrancoRoura: IE this one https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/breach requires five, 3 bronze, 1 silver, 1 gold

Lucky30_: guys KalamariKing made a mistake

Lucky30_: oOOOOO

Lucky30_: congrats

Lucky30_: your soul is next

FrancoRoura: Try to find challenges that require only 1 bronze skill and click the name of the skill to learn about it

KalamariKing: the dark has already taken my soul

Lucky30_: hhhhhh

KalamariKing: my job is to spread the darkness

Lucky30_: at least i am not the only one

KalamariKing: alr bois gotta dip, the css calls me

Lucky30_: damn, no typos

SLAY3R: hey

Lucky30_: hi

KalamariKing: hello there SLAY3R!

SLAY3R: im new to this website is clash of code the only online competition?

AllYourTrees: is there a blog post or forum post about how to encode NN weights into a string? i know recurse mentioned using base64 but does that mean you have to include the base64 algorithm in your code too?

kovi: is there something with servers? leaderboard is not updated and i experience weird timeouts

KalamariKing: wow a lot of questions

Lucky30_: SLAY3R nop, check Activities>compete

KalamariKing: SLAY3R there are other competitions, like bot programming and code golf

Lucky30_: Food should not be allowed to speak

KalamariKing: AllYourTrees I'm not too sure, I think you turn it into base64 unicode or smth and then paste it in. then you need the decode base64 in cg

RoboStac: AllYourTrees - yes, you need to include the decoder in your code. You want a unicode system instead of base 64 (can get 14/15 bits per character instead of 6)

KalamariKing: kovi I don't think so

KalamariKing: Lucky30_ if food should not be allowed to speak then why are you talking

darkhorse64: kovi, yes, I just made progress with CG sponsored challenge and leaderboard is not updating

Lucky30_: i dont have a soul anymore, so nothing to eat here..

AllYourTrees: okay ty!

jacek: base65536 eh?

AllYourTrees: anyone know a simple reference implementation of utf-8 decoding? :)

darkhorse64: wow, robo is storming the C4 lb and gave me #1. Time to screenshot

RoboStac: https://github.com/Parkayun/base65536 <-- I use that

AllYourTrees: ty robo!

RoboStac: yeah, your bot seems to be somehow immune to me :(

jacek: darkhorse64 you mean MSmits need to expand his book?

jacek: RoboStac CNN?

darkhorse64: You found a hole in MSmits book

King_Coda: Hello

RoboStac: yeah

jacek: one day i will learn CNN ~

darkhorse64: no book, no hole

King_Coda: Can you all see this?

King_Coda: test

RoboStac: just make sure to test it on nonsquare boards before wasting hours trying to play a rectangular game

darkhorse64: :sweat_smile:

jrke: was trying to train NN for SR kinda game

jrke: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735393675567431700/850066665429532752/Capture.JPG?width=568&height=427

jrke: :(

KalamariKing: King_Coda!

King_Coda: OH THANK GOD

jrke: average is crossing 0.4 checkpoints

King_Coda: I thought my chat was bugged out

jacek: oO

King_Coda: KalamariKing can you see my pm's that i'm sending you?

kovi: yes, it seems that some servers timeout heavily (i have used the old code which run wo. timeouts whole day yesterday)

KalamariKing: who wants to cry with me

RoboStac: I've not seen any timeout issue but the ranking updates are acting very weird (eg c4 leaderboard has jumped back in time to show me at 83% complete)

jacek: just wait for friday to deploy a fix

KalamariKing: to all who are interested, the CSS-project has an update: css has math functions https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/CSS_Functions

jacek: is CSS turing complete

KalamariKing: to all who weren't present when the project was introduced: I sent out a challenge, to make a functional addition program in css. Two inputs, one output

KalamariKing: jacek I'm not sure but I hope so

King_Coda: Is CSS an assembly language?

KalamariKing: a what

AllYourTrees: when will CSS be a valid choice for codingame bots?

KalamariKing: css is cascading style sheets

KalamariKing: its what makes your websites look pretty

KalamariKing: this HAS to be a thing, someday

Lucky30_: a css function wow

KalamariKing: CSS + HTML IS TURING COMPLETE

King_Coda: That's suprising

KalamariKing: this is happening

King_Coda: HTML barely even constitutes as a language

KalamariKing: #bringcsstocg

KalamariKing: I wanna be first in a css botfight, I'll be expecting css as a language on the next contest

jrke: does css also support input and output?

King_Coda: If you want CSS on CG you need to add HTML first

King_Coda: Logical progression

jacek: is HTML programming language

struct: ah yes

King_Coda: Ehhhhh

King_Coda: HTML is markup i think

King_Coda: The only thing I've "coded" in HTML is a snake clone

jrke: hyper text marup language

struct: its oop

jrke: even full form sayes its markup

struct: form must be wrong

Lucky30_: hyper text markup language

Lucky30_: *hypertext

King_Coda: You can kinda code things in html, but it's not really coding

Uljahn: fascinating

King_Coda: HTML's ability to store and change variables is... questionable

cw477: HTML is best programming language

King_Coda: Yes

FrancoRoura: I prefer MD but okay

Lucky30_: ok guys lets kick them both

cw477: Lol

cw477: nah i take it back, JSON is best coding language

King_Coda: NAH dude, mp3 is the best

Lucky30_: KalamariKing the whole list of css function https://css-tricks.com/complete-guide-to-css-functions/

cw477: lol

King_Coda: Wav takes up too much memory

King_Coda: .gp3 is nasty

FrancoRoura: What about yaml?

Lucky30_: Morse code maybe

King_Coda: Morse code= best code language

FrancoRoura: Unary strings ftw

FrancoRoura: It's also really simple to learn

FrancoRoura: For each byte, you hit 1 between 0 and 255 times, which is really helpful cause you can code with only 2 buttons

Lucky30_: what about a facial-recognitions wink left as 1 and right as 0

Lucky30_: wink language

FrancoRoura: Or brainf**k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

Lucky30_: *blink, #bad english, KalamariKing is not here hhh, lucky me

penis_Man: hello bros

Lucky30_: man why that name

FrancoRoura: I'd really like to see you getting a job offer with that username

Lucky30_: FrancoRoura i want to be a software architect, i just graduated last year, how many years to go?? hhh

Lucky30_: min()

FrancoRoura: Idk, depends on your learning pace

FrancoRoura: I never graduated

Lucky30_: ow coool

Lucky30_: first step, get a job hhh

FrancoRoura: Yeah, the cool thing is after you get a job all you need to do is make sure you can fully understand every single word you hear on the office

Lucky30_: ow man, the battles i have yet to face

FrancoRoura: It's not that hard

FrancoRoura: Whenever they say Vue, Kubernetes, Graphql, ORM, Phoenix or hashmap you just dive into it until you feel profficient

struct: Just run if they ask you to use a language that is discontinued

jacek: just randomly say blockchain and youll be the new CEO

FrancoRoura: That's a blockchain idea

Lucky30_: blockchain it is

Lucky30_: guys i have been reading this article on blockchaining a blockchain

Lucky30_: man i am blockchaing much better now hhh

Lucky30_: is that enough blockchain for you

Lucky30_: ceo at last

Lucky30_: if KalamariKing was here, he would blockchain the hell out of me

Lucky30_: probably reading some css madness

jacek: blockchain made in css

Lucky30_: cant copy paste some css no more

Bob23: hmmmmm

King_Coda: blockchain

jacek: congratulations. now you're mod on CG

King_Coda: Eh, moderator was never my thing

jacek: yeah, they are weird people

King_Coda: To many responsibilities, I just wanna code

King_Coda: Also everybody freaks out whenever you get into chat if you're a mod, I don't wanna do that

King_Coda: Moderators are people too, despite (some of) their toxicity

jacek: oO

King_Coda: *Looks at r3Curse*

King_Coda: (replace 3 with e, i dont want to ping)

Astrobytes: Weird eh

jacek: :scream:

King_Coda: Long time no see Astrobytes

Astrobytes: I've been resting elsewhere

King_Coda: Same here. I'm 5,240th on the site now

struct: I dont remember him being toxic

struct: I only saw him speeking the truth

King_Coda: Probably be top 5,000 after I do some CoC's

struct: hypersonic didnt give you points?

King_Coda: Been learning Java, JavaScript, C#, and C++

Astrobytes: I would try to focus one at a time if I were you.

King_Coda: Yeah, I'm trying to focus on Java at the moment.

Astrobytes: Do a little bit of another from time to time

jacek: if you focus on javascript, youll get java and script at the same time [smart]

King_Coda: Java and C# have some similar syntax in the way they handle variables, so I'm focusing on Java rn

King_Coda: That way I can segue into C# easily, then C++

King_Coda: jacek :rofl:

Astrobytes: What's with your profile King_Coda? It says you have loads of points but they don't show up under your Bot Programming?

Astrobytes: *the games that provide the points (CP) don't show up

struct: he got top 100 in 1 submit maybe it broke the system

Astrobytes: Top 100? 1 submit?

struct: hs

Astrobytes: oh come on, not another Sayonara bot

struct: yes

Astrobytes: Jeez.

Astrobytes: Grim.

jacek: he said top 100 in 1 submit or delete.

jacek: he didnt want to take chances

JimmyJams: King focus on c#

JimmyJams: then javascript

MACKEYTH: Sayonara bot?

Bob23: sayonara

darkhorse64: a copy/paste of a Hypersonic top bot that says sayonara

geppoz: any python expert: the function cmp() exists or not? found different opinions :D

jacek: no https://stackoverflow.com/a/22490617

struct: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-cmp-function/

jacek: :) https://i.redd.it/c7dmnjdzgu271.jpg

geppoz: lol see?

RoboStac: was removed in 3

geppoz: 2 different opinions

struct: ^

Di_Masta: Hi, I'm trying to run a game referee on my machine, I've packaged the referee to jar file using Maven. The 2 players are 2 .exe files, build in Release using Viasual Studio(MSVC), from simple C++ file containing the default CG code for the bots. The referee keeps crashing with the "java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError" exception on the first game. I tried a couple of game. Does anyone know what could be the reason?

FrancoRoura: Hard to know without the source code, try stack overflow

Di_Masta: I've tried, but with no success, maybe I have to build the referee and debug it

jacek: that is too specific for CG for stack overlow :v

struct: which referee are you trying to use?

Di_Masta: the one for UTT and Spring Challenge 2021

struct: you are using brutaltester?

Di_Masta: yeap, I'm trying

struct: ah dont think it works like that

struct: https://github.com/dreignier/game-ultimate-tictactoe

struct: https://github.com/LSmith-Zenoscave/SpringChallenge2021

Di_Masta: yes, I've downloaded exactly these refs

struct: which java version?

Di_Masta: the C++ code is really simple

Di_Masta: https://i.imgur.com/78TqY63.png

Di_Masta: jdk-16.0.1

AllYourTrees: so for serializing NN weights, do you first transform the floats into 4 bytes, and then encode the list of bytes into a base65536 string?

struct: Can you also paste the command here?

struct: or pm

Di_Masta: ok, just a moment

AllYourTrees: cause either i made the NN too big, or am doing something else wrong, i get a huge string lol

AllYourTrees: get the submitted code is too big error

jacek: how many chars or bytes

DrGates: hello guys. is this possible to enter only easy tasks? for beginners?

jacek: you change weights into int16

jacek: DrGates there is easy section of puzzles

DrGates: I want to play Clash of Code, its good, but sometimes its way too hard for me

jacek: no time limit

DrGates: its not about the time limit, 15 minutes is good and I want it as a race, just talking about the task itself :D

Astrobytes: Easy puzzles are like clashes without a time limit and (mostly) better problems.

DrGates: where can i find that?

AllYourTrees: jacek as in chop off half of the bits of the float?

Astrobytes: Activities->Practice

DrGates: ty

Astrobytes: Then Classic Puzzle - Easy

jacek: AllYourTrees somewhat. or float16. the decreased precision isnt much issue, ~15 bits if sufficient for most things (I do)

AllYourTrees: jacek cool ty

jacek: i use my own shit isntead of base65535 and the like so YMMV

Bob23: Nice

erinc-emre: what is your favorite game type?

erinc-emre: @all

Astrobytes: Bot Programming

jacek: clash ~

Uljahn: opti

MSmits: whats that game called where you lurk all day to not miss any jacek memes

Uljahn: btw for 2048 opti i used bz2 compression for base65535 decoder and encoded it with base85, while hardcoded solutions are pickled, lzma-compressed and base65535 encoded, python batteries are great :hugging:

MSmits: pickled?

Uljahn: serialized with pickle module

MSmits: i see

jacek: MSmits :notebook: :soccer: ?

MSmits: I prefer the memes tbh, but sure, some day :)

MSmits: I saw you put the C4 memes in the forum thread hehe

Bob23: hmmmm

AllYourTrees: i wonder how they came up with the name pickle for python serialization

AllYourTrees: like oh i'm saving this data to disk, thats definitely the same as soaking it in vinegar and spices for the purposes of eating it later

AllYourTrees: :thinking:

Astrobytes: Presumably because they're preserved data?

Astrobytes: Pickling is, after all, a method of preservation

AllYourTrees: wow yeah actually nice one

jacek: :cucumber:

Uljahn: :pickle_rick:

geppoz: there is some problem on CG platform?

Uljahn: ye

geppoz: impossibile to submit, 504

Uljahn: got that too

jacek: me too

r31415: codingame seems to be completely down...

MACKEYTH: Anyone else getting network errors?

jacek: oO

Nerchio: i must have submitted too many times to vindinium

Nerchio: :sweat_smile:

CodyDataBanks: aye

Astrobytes: back now

jacek: oh my

r31415: Hmm, did someone commit to production w/o testing? On a programming-learning-platform? ;)

jacek: impossibru. that happens only on fridays

Astrobytes: No. That only happens on Fridays

Astrobytes: lol

jacek: slowbytes

Astrobytes: Hey, I'm out of practice

MACKEYTH: Is CoC borked for everyone?

FrancoRoura: Are the clash of code servers broken?

FrancoRoura: Maybe it's just our clash @Mackeyth

Astrobytes: We've just had a server issue so give it a few minutes

FrancoRoura: Oh ok, thanks!

derjack: are clashes broken?

Astrobytes: shut up pony :P

derjack: :(

Nerchio: is life broken?

Smelty: yes

Astrobytes: Error 666: Hellbound

Astrobytes: Hm that's very BlaiseEbuth

Smelty: Error 510: Hellbound startup failed. Retrying...

FrancoRoura: The internet is broken

FrancoRoura: Bitbucket pipelines broken

FrancoRoura: LinkedIn broken

FrancoRoura: And even Clash of Code

FrancoRoura: A sad day for software

Smelty: Success: Hellbound started up.

jacek: but this isnt broken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Smelty: Running...

Smelty: yeeees clash is broken

Astrobytes: Don't click. It'll be a rickroll

Nerchio: I need CoC right now!!

jacek: 504 returned

Astrobytes: still working on my end, for now at least

Nerchio: but is it though

FrancoRoura: Not for me

FrancoRoura: The startClashByHandle endpoint does return a 204 though

FrancoRoura: It just doesn't start them

Nerchio: maybe we got banned

FrancoRoura: Hey Astro, quick question, why Angular?

Astrobytes: Hey I don't work for them, just a mod

MSmits: saved by a YT add

MSmits: your rickroll was foiled!!!

Nerchio: might not be fixed today considering its late :D

struct: I would rather get rickrolled than get an add

Butanium: https://imgur.com/vNMcvXn

Butanium: aaaah

Butanium: let me in

Butanium: I implemented the "smarter" playout MSmits

Butanium: can't wait to see how it does

yaboiikevin: clashes broken or is it just me

Butanium: deploy in multiplayer seems broken at leas

Tuo: very broken

Astrobytes: There are issues currently, not just clashes.

Tuo: im resorting to code golf to satisfy my clash habit :(

Tuo: :(

Tuo: emotes not showing up also hehe

Astrobytes: Get a new habit.

Butanium: '-'

Hakimm: still note working

Hakimm: ?

Nerchio: no, sadge

Nerchio: :unamused:

Butanium: sadge

Butanium: it's 23h in france

Nerchio: yeah probably not going to work today

Nerchio: my guess

Butanium: I don't know if they will be able to fix it this evening x)

Butanium: ;-;

Astrobytes: Hey, look, it's not the end of the world

Butanium: yup

Butanium: I'll code my local connect 4 to play agains my bot

Butanium: x)

Astrobytes: why is everyone on C4 all of a sudden?

Astrobytes: Oh, potw, my bad

Butanium: that was a good game to try a MCTS

darkhorse64: I'll stay #1 tonight :yum:. Great RPS effect, MSmits wrecks me, get wrecked by robostac which I wrecked

Butanium: my spring challenge MCTS was too buggy

Astrobytes: lol nice

Butanium: So I wanted to start with something easier

darkhorse64: Next, get legend at UTTT

Astrobytes: My c4 bot is broken. I stopped working on it at some point then did something else. Should probably get around to fixing it

Astrobytes: One day.

Pengwin: is clash of code broken?

Pengwin: Or am i doing something wrong

nikim017: this is the fourth time and nothing

MSmits: heh yeah, i checked two games vs robostac yesterday. They were completely identical

MSmits: and I dont even have a counterbook. Just a regular opening book

MSmits: so yeah major rps :)

Lucky30_: welcome back

Tonelllo: Yes, clash of code is broken

Butanium: what is UTTT?

Astrobytes: Ultimate tictactoe

Butanium: thanks

Astrobytes: 9 tic tac toe boards as a tic tac toe board

Butanium: https://imgur.com/DxhvfJg

Butanium: I guess my MCTS is supposed to detect those "seven"

JimmyJams: when does the puzzle of the week reset? Monday?

Astrobytes: Monday night, French time yeah

Astrobytes: Well, the update happens earlier but the notification happens then

JimmyJams: gotchya thx

JimmyJams: clash of code is down I guess? No games seem to start.

Astrobytes: Yep. There are issues currently. Not gonna be fixed until much later though, it's almost midnight in France

DUNKEN: Sob Sob

Astrobytes: anyway, laters

napan: why the arena is not working?

Nerchio: the site is semi-down currently

Nerchio: dont expec

YoloTheBear: I hate recursion

ChiliCheese: why that

JimmyJams: he didn't ilke the movie inception

JimmyJams: anyone knows what the difference is between the rank like "10030th" you see on your profile and the rank you see in teh "following progress" page of say, your friends list?

nightmarex: clash bugged?

Velop0p0: yes rip

Wontonimo: hey ho

Wontonimo: how's the nn experiments going MSmits?

Butanium: yay

Butanium: https://www.codingame.com/replay/561817628

Butanium: Now I can sleep

PatrickMcGinnisII: OK!

Wontonimo: congrats

PatrickMcGinnisII: must not have submitted to arena

PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.codingame.com/replay/561817817

Wontonimo: brutal loss

HalfLegend: that's where I'm at: https://www.codingame.com/replay/561818051

HalfLegend: lmao

Wontonimo: what algo are you using?

HalfLegend: Minimax but my evaluation function is the issue I think

Wontonimo: submit your bot, let's see it on the leaderboard

Wontonimo: how deep is your minimax able to go?

HalfLegend: I had set it up to 0 depth for debug purpose but I made it work up to 2

Wontonimo: your move, their move, your move, their move? 2 plys?

Wontonimo: so 4 moves?

HalfLegend: I think 3 moves: 2,1 and 0 of depth so my turn their turn my turn

HalfLegend: my bot is submitting

Wontonimo: what's your eval function?

PatrickMcGinnisII: mine is depth 2...me then them, so u should beat mine, rank 80

HalfLegend: My eval is +5 points for 2 chip on a same row / column / diagonal without enemy chip; +10 for 3 and then -50 when the enemy has 3 unblocked chip

Nzk: clash stil down?

Wontonimo: interesting. Where did you get those values or did you make them up?

Wontonimo: workers don't get in till tomorrow morning, so probably will be down till then Nzk

Nzk: i see

Nzk: thanks

HalfLegend: I looked at a youtube video to get ideas for the eval

Wontonimo: +100 for that!

Nzk: ooh; lemme try connect 4

HalfLegend: yeah my bot fight isn't loading

Nzk: ooh and imma try this in java too

Wontonimo: depth 2 doesn't seem like much. Have you identified any performance bottlenecks?

HalfLegend: tbh I'm still trying to get the eval right before going in depth.. :joy:

Wontonimo: if your depth is deep enough the only eval you needs is win/loss

HalfLegend: fair point haha

Wontonimo: a lesson from chess, even as far back as deepblue (decades before AlphaGo), if you can go deep enough, win/loss wins over heuristic

PatrickMcGinnisII: my submit was a long time ago, I decided to change format from full gamestates to do/undo ... and i never did

HalfLegend: I guess if I added pruning on my minimax it might work

HalfLegend: Isn't there too many possibilites to consider though?

Nzk: hm

Wontonimo: even without pruning, if the branching factor is 9 ... let's say you can do 5,000 evals... that would be about a depth of 4

HalfLegend: Is 4 depth all I need?

Wontonimo: add pruning and you can usually increase your depth by 50%, so depth 6.

Wontonimo: all you need for what?

Nzk: dang replays are also broken

HalfLegend: For a win/loss

Wontonimo: oh no, haha, sorry my bad. depth 4 is what you could get if you can simulate about 5,000 moves

HalfLegend: I see, thanks. I'll get back on this tommorwo I prolly need to make some deep changes haha

PatrickMcGinnisII: evaling entire board at each node is a waste, checking for win from 1 piece is cheap enough

Wontonimo: good point

PatrickMcGinnisII: there are some bitboarding hacks to check for win

PatrickMcGinnisII: https://towardsdatascience.com/creating-the-perfect-connect-four-ai-bot-c165115557b0

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm working on tryanglecatch at the moment tho

PatrickMcGinnisII: classic connect4 is 7x6...CG's is 9x7, fyi

nightmarex: how do u submit it lul

PatrickMcGinnisII: so 63 bits ... doable

nightmarex: i need puzzle of the week achievement xd

ja_fica: http://blog.gamesolver.org/

ja_fica: thats a perfect play bot

Wontonimo: cool article PatrickMcGinnisII, thanks for sharing

ja_fica: I think it is not achievable on a 9x7 but still it is possible to apply an efficient MCTS-solver

ja_fica: It combines all heuristic properties of any state with minimax where the minimax part speeds up (improves) the true heuristic of the state as you play more rollouts

ja_fica: Are battles going to stuck for tonight in UTTT?

HalfLegend: I just won against the first Boss finally

HalfLegend: can't submit till they fix the website tho so that's it for tonight

ja_fica: I was ranking up on UTTT when the matchs were interrupted

Nzk: ppf

Nzk: *oof

ZQWhiting: Is anyone else's achievements not updating?

medievalghoul: what happened

medievalghoul: bro

medievalghoul: wtf

medievalghoul: smh

Wontonimo: i'm sure everything will be back to normal by tomorrow once the staff wake up in about 8 hours

Westicles: You don't mess with the Cult of Real N*

Wontonimo: ?

Wontonimo: I know of A*, what's N* ?

Westicles: medievalghoul profile

Wontonimo: ah, you gotta change that medievalghoul

PatrickMcGinnisII: :cop_tone5:

Wontonimo: What up Westicles? Working on any projects lately?

Westicles: Not much, how about you?

Wontonimo: just dabbled in tron without taking is seriously. mostly playing armchair qb for all the NN discussion

Wontonimo: haven't been working on any personal projects either

Wontonimo: kinda waiting for vaccine and then summer

Wontonimo: i hear you were less than 200 steps to a taco shop. anything else interesting around you, or is it just your house and that one taco place that closed for 100 miles in all directions?

Westicles: Yeah, summer is nice here. People are starting to go back to work but the tourists haven't come back, so got the beach to myself

Wontonimo: ah, a beach! nice

Wontonimo: are you seriously on Christmas Island?

Westicles: Ah, no I'm in CA

Wontonimo: that's more believable

Wontonimo: haha ... i had to google Christmas island. i was mistaken about it size

Nzk: my detect potential 4 in a row isnt working :(

new01: ok bug

Taka-Li: crashed?