ash_rick: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/15382962af7ab78df83108b0df8d29d639906f9
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/15383611db6cd3ab4eae4a184b77fca8efef3aa
ritw777: hey all I'm new here!
Just solved the initial if-else problem. really fun IDE
jacek: good for you
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: hey all I'm new here!
Just solved the initial if-else problem. really fun IDE
jacek: :thinking:
Westicles: Some sort of Jungian synchronicity going on here
struct: hello
proogrmr: :rolling_eyes:
proogrmr: hey
normalkid: bruh
normalkid: i am so trash
Megha.Akash: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/56529ab24fb977bbb361cec3ce8701034586
What does rate mean in this puzzle?
normalkid: lol i dont think i am gonna no
normalkid: im in year 7
normalkid: but i can still do this
Westicles: I think he meant ratio
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
proogrmr: u sus
proogrmr: red sus
normalkid: yeah
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: hi
normalkid: hi
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/15384016c23ac06e3afb600d7a951c6d07a09b4
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3637826c-e79f-448f-b182-2743ae2b8db7
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/15384016c23ac06e3afb600d7a951c6d07a09b4
struct: stop spamming
eulerscheZahl: stop it
Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD: f
eulerscheZahl: oh, hi struct
struct: hi euler
eulerscheZahl: also stop that F spam
Socksfor2: F IN THE CHAT FOR U
jacek: press F
Socksfor2: f
Socksfor2: f
proogrmr: hey
Socksfor2: spam f
proogrmr: stop
Socksfor2: s
Socksfor2: f
Socksfor2: f
Socksfor2: f
Socksfor2: f
eulerscheZahl: my kick doesn't work
eulerscheZahl: struct does yours?
struct: no
jacek: oO
Socksfor2: f
eulerscheZahl: ping reCurse
jacek: UTTT is best game on CG
jacek: done
Socksfor2: watch youtube and ill stop
struct: He changed nam euler
struct: over his profile
proogrmr: yeah he changed
eulerscheZahl: ah, i just realized that too
eulerscheZahl: tried in external client and couldn't find the user
struct: Kick doesnt return an error of why it didnt work
struct: but ban did
struct: "Atomic_Nuclear_WARHEAD was not found on the chat."
proogrmr: it is socks for2
proogrmr: now the username
informathemusic: I think he has an alt
struct: thanks proogrmr, he was kicked
informathemusic: ..oh nvm
proogrmr: :)
proogrmr: yay
informathemusic: :)
Angecide: just reached top 4 gold in uttt, it feels like legend is just around the corner, but improving the algo gets exponentially harder
jacek: :+1:
struct: Angecide try teccles heuristic
struct: Force player to the same board that you just played
Angecide: ohh, I did notice that strategy when watching some of karliso's replay
jacek: my bot plays that on his own if you give him more time. seems this is optimal strategy
Angecide: kinda crazy realizing that top 1 legend has more points in legend than I have in gold
Angecide: makes you think what kind of algorithm he is using
jacek: ranking is relative
jacek: not comparable between leagues
Angecide: ah so it is not like elo?
jacek: only within league
jacek: being gold, you probably have more points than most people in legend
eulerscheZahl: and it's not ELO but trueskill
eulerscheZahl: ELO only supports 2 player matches, CodinGame allows up to 8 players per match. So ELO is not a valid option
ChampionCoder: Hey in the clash result page, there is always something saying "No criteria"
What is supposed to go in there?
ChampionCoder: I mean, it always says "No criteria"
ChampionCoder: So what should go in there if there is an criteria?
ChampionCoder: And what is the criteria?
ChampionCoder: Hello?
dev-tommy: Hello
dev-tommy: how i can check code of my solved puzzles ?
struct: go to the difficulty tab
struct: and then scroll down
struct: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
struct: if you scroll down it should show the completed ones
ChampionCoder: Go to the puzzle page, click on "Solve it" and then see the puzzle code
ChampionCoder: struct I think he's asking the code not the puzzles solved
struct: ah sorry
ChampionCoder: And can you answer my question?
ChampionCoder: If it's visible
struct: You can click on results -> history
struct: Is that the form to give feedback on the clash?
ChampionCoder: Oh never mind sorry it just says the length of code if the type is shortest
ChampionCoder: Else it says nothing
ChampionCoder: Thanks anyways
philipplenk:
ChampionCoder:
ChampionCoder: Oops sorry
dev-tommy: ok thx i found !
ChampionCoder: :+1:
dev-tommy: i ask becouse i finished "Temperatures" Puzzle, but now i must finish it again
dev-tommy: i lost results
dev-tommy: oh ok it was the same puzzle but "Code Golfing":wink:
ChampionCoder: Yeah that is a little confusing
ChampionCoder: Same puzzles are in both code golf and normal
dev-tommy: ok now i understand ;)
dev-tommy: and its funny becouse my code in code golfing is accepted but in normal puzzle its 90% score ;)
ikadimi: hey everyone i need to create a school planing for students and after some search found the use of Monte Carlo optimization algorithm to score the best possible plannings is there any other way to achieve this or is this the right path?
jacek: could genetic algorithm work here as well? :thinking:
MeSeet: I was wondering the same jacek
eulerscheZahl: or simulated annealing...
lost of possibilities
eulerscheZahl: lots*
ikadimi: ok which is best when you have limitations like the number of classrooms and professors and rest periods
eulerscheZahl: i know that my old university used a genetic algorithm for this. there might be better ways but someone got that working at least
eulerscheZahl: they reported an increasing runtime to find a satisfying solution, when you are close to maximum capacity (no spare rooms)
ikadimi: great thank you ima start by doing the Monte Carlo puzzle by aCat and learn how to apply it in this scenario
Astrobytes: isn't that an MCTS puzzle?
ikadimi: yes
eulerscheZahl: independent from your final approach, collect all the inputs first.
class room capacities (large lecture won't fit in small room), overlapping lectures, profs wanting a day off, ...
eulerscheZahl: MCTS is not MC
Astrobytes: ^
ikadimi: :)
ikadimi: yes thats why i asked kinda just starting this task
ikadimi: ok then not that
Astrobytes: MC: Generate random solutions and score them. Keeping the best one each time.
ikadimi: any puzzles similar to this problem ?
eulerscheZahl: you can try it in the multiplayer section. i can't think of a puzzle
eulerscheZahl: or maybe something like https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/samegame
Astrobytes: Or just try it out on your task. It really is as simple as it sounds.
eulerscheZahl: you won't get top scores with MC but not complete garbage either
eulerscheZahl: time tables aren't that trivial i think. many constraints to consider
eulerscheZahl: just placing random lectures in random spots (pure MC style) will cause a lot of collisions
ikadimi: this one is just for the sports planing so i guess much easier that the hole uni
Astrobytes: No, I meant MC is simple to implement. Not sure it'll fare well for the task tbh.
eulerscheZahl: ah, that makes it much easier :)
ikadimi: the only conditions really is rest days
ikadimi: and space / professor availblity
Astrobytes: Maybe MC will fare better then :)
ikadimi: ok then MC with babysteps it is thanks everyone
eulerscheZahl: and if you've set up the boilerplate code, switching from MC to GA isn't a big step anymore
Astrobytes: ^
You can ask here if you get stuck again, someone's usually around to help out.
eulerscheZahl: my holiday is over, back to work tomorrow :(
Astrobytes: Still working from home?
ikadimi: its a guaranty ill be back :)
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: will stay that way for a few more months I think
Astrobytes: You guys have a full lockdown or limited?
eulerscheZahl: important stores (groceries) are open, rest is closed
eulerscheZahl: you may go 15km away from your home and meet 1 person from another household
darkhorse64: We have a curfew and remote working is recommended
Astrobytes: Ah ok. And yeah, minimum of a few more months. Probably years over here :P
eulerscheZahl: i'm still an optimist :P
Astrobytes: Pessimism is underrated. I am seldom disappointed ;)
eulerscheZahl: maybe one day we'll realize that the virus is mutating and vaccines aren't that effective after all so we just accept defeat?
eulerscheZahl: like we call in sick for a week with a regular flu
eulerscheZahl: future will show
Astrobytes: It may end up like that, we just have to wait and see, try and control it as best as we can.
eulerscheZahl: with a not even that small group of people seeing the mask as a limitation of their human rights, that's just a firm wish
**BlaiseEbuth is gonna win his Plage.Inc game. :imp:
Astrobytes: Indeed.
Astrobytes: lol, every day is like Plague inc.
eulerscheZahl: plaque? see your dentist
Astrobytes: See your optician!
BlaiseEbuth: Discord on the web chat !
eulerscheZahl: reacting to the typo of blaise
Astrobytes: Oh wait, BlaiseEbuth is playing a beach simulator :P
jacek: another missed opportunity?
BlaiseEbuth: There's hagiss and kouign-amann on my beach Astrobytes, come on !
Astrobytes: :D
Angecide: top 1 gold, this might be it
jacek: :tada:
Angecide: damn i might be slightly too weak to be promoted
Angecide: but just good enough to be first in gold
jacek: spam submit then
Angecide: I am not entirely sure if that would help
eulerscheZahl: i still don't understand the popularity of UTTT compared to other games
eulerscheZahl: i'm curious, how did you get to UTTT?
eulerscheZahl: k4ng0u just wrote a detailed "post mortem" for Bender4, thanks for the effort :)
MSmits: uttt is popular because tic tac toe is well known and it has a nice wood league
MSmits: then the higher leagues are also relatively easy to sim
MSmits: also it having a high number of players gives a better sense of progression
eulerscheZahl: still you have to find the way from big wide web to that single game on CG out of 50
MSmits: I am not sure how CG suggests games
MSmits: maybe that has something to do with it
eulerscheZahl: even previous contests like codebusters or hypersonic have less players in the arena than UTTT
eulerscheZahl: or at least that's how it was when i checked last
MSmits: also, the talk on worldchat pushes people to try it as well
booleancub3: do you know a good competitive programming site for pract icing
eulerscheZahl: codeforces.com
Angecide: I wanted to try my minimax algo on normal ttt and then when I saw uttt I got hooked onto it as well
eulerscheZahl: so the really simple wood league helped here, interesting
eulerscheZahl: i try to learn for possible future contributions
BlaiseEbuth: A 3d FPS with tea pots !
eulerscheZahl: can the teapots shoot smaller teapots?
BlaiseEbuth: Sure. Kitchen's law
jacek: actually i was looking for some leaderboard of UTTT, thats how i found codingame
jacek: Angecide how many sims per second you can do?
Angecide: a ton, i tried testing it on codingames by just doing sims only for 110ms and counting it and it said ~100k sims
Angecide: but I can only do about ~28k iterations of mcts on turn 2
Angecide: so that probably has to be optimized a bit more
MSmits: yeah 100k is realistic
MSmits: depending on how heavy your rollout is with heuristics and such
MSmits: I mean 100k iterations of mcts btw, not sims
darkhorse64: That's enough for legend. A more difficult one: what is the winning rate of move 4 4 ? This is to assess if your mcts is correct
MSmits: well it gives a good indication
MSmits: there's more things that can be wrong with your mcts
darkhorse64: A lot !
MSmits: yeah :(
Angecide: yea, I feel like there might be a bug in my code or I am just not doing enough iterations, but it is incredibly hard to debug
MSmits: though this weekend i worked on a negamax with ab and TT and I must say I made a lot of booboo's as well
MSmits: Angecide yes it is
darkhorse64: It's also easy to have something that works ok as p1 and completely bogus as p2
reCurse: It's hard to lose as p1
reCurse: You have to work for it
Angecide: would you say that in theory with perfect information that p1 can force a win?
jacek: MSmits do you have history of your meta mcts? i wonder how the graph of the moves oscillate
reCurse: You need to solve a game to prove it
Angecide: yea I just meant your gut feeling
reCurse: So in the absence of it, it is overwhelmingly in the direction of p1 always wins
MSmits: jacek i dont have a history, move move 0 was near 50% for a long time, then moved up to 55% and then back down to 47% at a minimum. Going back up again
reCurse: I suspect it's the board count that makes it all messed up
reCurse: But didn't investigate
jacek: no prove, but based on many games, how mcts favor the 1p, it seems it is likely uttt is win for 1p
jacek: especially with board counting
reCurse: Stupid rule imo
jacek: they added it to avoid draws?
reCurse: lol...
reCurse: That causes *more* draws
MSmits: jacek i am very near certain uttt is solved as win for p1
MSmits: whenever i see a p2 win
MSmits: i can trace it back to a mistake of p1 earlier
MSmits: thats how i counterbooked players that used books as p2 (bad idea)
MSmits: if you book, only do it as p1
jacek: i wonder when the cheese will be out
reCurse: Are you still booking in the arena
MSmits: hmm, i think it only counters yours as p2 currently, no other hardcoding.
MSmits: unless you took down that book
MSmits: or maybe you didnt have one and its just really deterministic
jacek: interesting https://wikidiff.com/chess/cheese
reCurse: Wonder if I should be flattered or upset
MSmits: dont worry about it.... ill be redoing my entire bot when i have the time
MSmits: i have locally hardcoded karlisos bot as p2
jacek: being deterministic is good if its going the only good moves available
MSmits: can get 100% winrate vs it, but i didnt even submit
MSmits: it's boring
MSmits: he doesnt even have a book
reCurse: So with me it's fine but with him it's boring? Meh
MSmits: its just limited variation of play
MSmits: nah i did this a year ago recurse
MSmits: for your bot i mean
jacek: in 2020? so old
MSmits: also, i can take it off and have like a 53% overall winrate vs you
reCurse: Nah don't change anything
MSmits: with it, it is 100% against 35% or something as p1, and p2, without it, it is 70% vs 35%
jacek: and you finally tried negamax. what for
MSmits: so it just changes the 70% to 100% as p1
MSmits: the book i man
MSmits: mean
MSmits: jacek for study project
MSmits: yavalath
reCurse: Should be 70% in my favor now
MSmits: oh you submitted a new bot reCurse?
reCurse: No
MSmits: whats different then?
reCurse: Well new bot yes, submit no
MSmits: ohh ok
MSmits: cool
MSmits: does it beat karliso?>
MSmits: cuz that one is ridiculously strong
reCurse: I think I finally found one yes
MSmits: oh did you do machine learning?
reCurse: Yes
MSmits: ahh ok
jacek: :O
MSmits: I'm sure it can still be counterbooked when it is p2, but as i said, not going to
Angecide: how can you tell when someone books vs no books? is it if they move deterministically?
reCurse: No books
reCurse: But maybe deterministic
MSmits: yeah
reCurse: Then again I'm even more dependent on the CPU I get than before
reCurse: It's frustrating but I asked for it
MSmits: thats the problem, good bots dont have that much variation in play
reCurse: Looks like 70% vs him so far
MSmits: interesting
eulerscheZahl: your fights at those games reminds me of goats banging their heads against each other
reCurse: Well tbh
reCurse: I really didn't care about uttt at all
reCurse: Just needed an easy target for my new ML/RL pipeline
reCurse: And maybe give me some peace in the process
MSmits: so you did care!
reCurse: ?
MSmits: on some level :P
reCurse: No
MSmits: why would it give you peace
MSmits: you had inner turmoil from uttt
reCurse: That it wasn't all for nothing
MSmits: ohh ok
jacek: you like UTTT dont you, reCurse https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/009/086/SMILE.jpg
reCurse: No I just lacked an easier target
MSmits: isnt oware just as easy?
MSmits: or othello?
reCurse: Oware is community
MSmits: ahh
reCurse: I'd rather not touch those if I can help i t
jacek: but you touched oware
Astrobytes: Oware touched him first.
reCurse: Yeah and it made me discover the joys of limited submits
MSmits: ah
jacek: and stupid robo is 1st :(
MSmits: if your bot is much stronger than others, it doesn't matter that much
Astrobytes: Can't see that situation ever improving tbh
reCurse: Of course it matters
reCurse: My CSB bot when I resubmitted it
reCurse: Has >80% winrate against everyone
reCurse: Barely made it 1st at 90% submit
reCurse: So imagine on a community
reCurse: It's dumb
MSmits: it's a large league though
MSmits: i will argue that the imbalancedness of uttt + better submit is still worse than a more balanced game with limited submit
MSmits: uttt is pretty bad like that
MSmits: even with swap
MSmits: all those draws...
reCurse: That's a defendable position
reCurse: Outweighted by my sheer hatred for it though
MSmits: haha ok
reCurse: I don't understand why it's a random iteration that's crushing it
reCurse: It's 25 generations ago
reCurse: But it's doing it
reCurse: ML is hard...
MSmits: as i said, karlisos p2 play is deterministic enough that you can counter book it with less than 100 moves or so.
MSmits: that would mean some iteration of your NN might do this as well
reCurse: I believe it generalized well enough though
reCurse: It's consistent against top3
reCurse: At least
MSmits: sure, but karliso is wayyy above me and tomatoes
reCurse: But very fragile, an iteration later and it's average
MSmits: in strength
jrke: which multi?
MSmits: i lose 100% as p2 vs him
eulerscheZahl: uttt
jacek: you have NN for uttt?
reCurse: Yeah
jacek: :+1:
MSmits: reCurse do you have a random feature?
reCurse: ?
MSmits: like, add a random float to the score of each move
MSmits: and then pick one
reCurse: I'd rather not
MSmits: it might help with the difference between those iterations
MSmits: otherwise this really good bot could collapse if karliso adds or removes one heuristic from his bot
reCurse: Oh I have a lot of things for training
reCurse: But for evaluating why would I do that
reCurse: Well I'm assuming that if it maintains a good winrate vs the top 10
reCurse: Then it's generalized
reCurse: I don't care about overfitting with books it's dumb
MSmits: its not just books, its also deterministic bots playing nearly perfectly
reCurse: You can probably counterbook my new one
reCurse: It's an escalation war I have zero interest in
MSmits: which means one small change and a 100% winrate becomes 50% or less
MSmits: reCurse counterbooking only works as p1 really
MSmits: so at best it would be 50%
Angecide: btw, I was wondering with all these books, how do you import it into your codes? is it just a large piece of hardcoded tree containing the actions?
MSmits: as your bot will beat my p2 bot 100% and i would beat yours
reCurse: I will take the random CPU attribution as random float
MSmits: that helps to some extent
reCurse: Because performance difference is extreme
reCurse: Not even consistent in a series I think
reCurse: Which is stupid
reCurse: Angecide: It's just serialization embedded as a constant
reCurse: As for my complaints about GPU, I estimate my training would be 5x faster with rtx3080
reCurse: It's crazy
MSmits: you train on gpu?
reCurse: Yeah
reCurse: I went all out
MSmits: did you use any tools now?
MSmits: you didnt create i mena
MSmits: i know at first you made everything yourself
reCurse: Yeah I'm leveraging libs now
reCurse: I've gotten more confident in my understanding
reCurse: Besides gpu programming is a can of worms of its own
jacek: "What I cannot create, I do not understand"
MSmits: yeah
reCurse: Is that the wisest thing you've said jacek
MSmits: i am amazed that people get anything done on a gpu besides the graphics processes it was intended for
jacek: i know more random quotes
MSmits: my short foray into compute shaders was painful
jacek: but simply i dont understand NN i didnt create from scratch myself
reCurse: cuda is very good
reCurse: But it's a very different mindset
eulerscheZahl: i looked into cuda long ago but gave up quickly :(
reCurse: For me it's enough to have a good intuition of how things work by doing it from scratch
reCurse: Then you can better leverage libraries
eulerscheZahl: in the end it's always the question what i'd like to do first in my spare time. sadly my motivation to start such a complex thing dropped a bit since i'm writing code in my job as well
eulerscheZahl: i miss my student days
reCurse: Sure, makes sense
reCurse: I see those as completely different
eulerscheZahl: but both are mentally challenging and I want some time to rest as well
reCurse: Job often doesn't align with curiosity and learning interests
reCurse: Though I'm working on a ML project at work now, and that's thanks to practicing it with CG as motivation
reCurse: Wouldn't have gotten into it or thought it would be for me otherwise
reCurse: Do servers still have hiccups?
Salted: Thanks to CG I also got into ML. My coders strike back bot is the product of genetic evolution with a neural network. I've even been lucky enough to make some side cash doing ML now.
reCurse: You used a GA to optimize a neural network?
Salted: Yeah, to tweak the weights of the network. They compete in a league against the "best" bot and the winner becomes the best bot to beat. I used the brutal testing stuff.
reCurse: Interesting. Why not gradient descent?
reCurse: I never got the point of neuroevolution
Salted: I wasn't sure how to use gradient descent when I didn't have a scoring function. Just a single point indicating that that it won/lost a match.
reCurse: That's a scoring function
MSmits: temporal difference learning is supposed to help with this problem Salted
MSmits: i havent done this myself, but i know its an answer to this
reCurse: Kind of orthogonal to optimization though
MSmits: no idea, i will trust you on that
reCurse: You can do TD with gradient descent
reCurse: Don't, I'm no trained scholar
MSmits: ok :)
reCurse: Just the product of google searches
MSmits: same
Salted: I'm no trained scholar either.
MSmits: though, i will say that on dots and boxes i am almost a trained scholar :P
MSmits: never read so many papers
reCurse: There are "so many papers" on D&B?
MSmits: nothing else though, not even mcts, i half read a few is all
reCurse: I've been reading papers nonstop since I joined CG
MSmits: reCurse maybe a dozen or so, i meant it proportionally
MSmits: so i know most of the body of knowledge on this
reCurse: Ah ok
MSmits: mikla still beat me though, when i have time i will get back to it
Salted: See I thought gradient descent would only work if you had control of the data. Since it invoves another player then changing the network affects how the data of the input too and not just the output which is why I couldn't use it.
reCurse: Oh sure it's very noisy
reCurse: Doesn't mean you can't optimize it
Salted: oh, sorry, that was terrible. The input data gets changed when changing the network. So gradient descent doesn't work
reCurse: RL is the far west of ML
Salted: Oh, but I can watch another player and create a network that mimics their play style
Salted: That's easy
reCurse: Sure that's the typical supervised learning
jrke: how do you store weights of training?
Salted: I did try the traditional supervised learning with the game data in the beginning but it never made bots that worked well
reCurse: Same way you store constants
reCurse: Except with more work
Salted: I store them in a compressed pickled array
reCurse: And no 100k chars is not an issue
Salted: It is an issue for 100k. So I can store maybe 17,000 floats
Salted: Well, it's not a normal issue
reCurse: You'll just have to take my word for it
jrke: how in 17000 floats only can you give me some reference link for it
Salted: I've tried running more and the script won't run.
reCurse: Not giving away all the secrets either
jacek: it can be more than 17000 floats. you dont need that resolution
jacek: i.e. for bt i have 49152 weights with about 'int16' resolution
reCurse: bt?
jacek: each weight using 1 character
jacek: breakthrough
reCurse: Oh
Salted: Oups
An error occurred (#314): "Submitted code is too big"
Salted: That's what happens when I go over 100k
reCurse: Yeah
reCurse: 100k characters
jacek: you need to be more creative in those 100k
reCurse: It's like those 4kb demo competitions
reCurse: You have to squeeze
Salted: This is what my network looks like for example, but another 80k of this
Salted: eNqEmnk018Hb9+2y71ERiRCVLet3rg8qIsq
jacek: and this is mine 憄晁攱攰斨敏旁斉斡斝斒旭抻桥斖旟斥敒斣旇敫既斎旴惤揓敷旭斗旰架敱攻旊斬旬搞斨旦旬敳斖旃旳敼旔旈攴愍...
SwagColoredKitteh: oh hi
Salted: Oh man
Salted: lol
SwagColoredKitteh: hope you're all having a great day
struct: hi
SwagColoredKitteh: hi struct
PIRT: hi
SwagColoredKitteh: hi PIRT
jacek: all glory to unicode
SwagColoredKitteh: and this is the story of how i became a greeter bot
eulerscheZahl: because you can't hug people anymore
SwagColoredKitteh: :'(
SwagColoredKitteh: been messing around with crystal rush, pretty fun game
reCurse: I wonder when a hug will be considered a natural thing again
reCurse: Now I'm depressed
SwagColoredKitteh: join the club
SwagColoredKitteh: at least i could channel it into writing code; i call it depression-driven development
MSmits: :hugging:
SwagColoredKitteh: i think hugs will quickly become a natural thing again between people who know one-another
SwagColoredKitteh: but it may be very slow for strangers
reCurse: Not even sure about the former
SwagColoredKitteh: hey MSmits :hugging:
reCurse: The virus stigma will last for a long time I think
reCurse: At least for reasonable people
MSmits: hey :) and bye getting some food
SwagColoredKitteh: enjoy MSmits!
eulerscheZahl: hey bye to you too
Salted: Hugs are nice. I can't wait for basic eye contact to come back. It feels like people are really being cold these days.
SwagColoredKitteh: reCurse well, yeah, it still only will resume after we've all been vaccinated
SwagColoredKitteh: i'd assume at least
reCurse: That's optimistic
SwagColoredKitteh: optimism is all i have right now
SwagColoredKitteh: there's also optimism in the assumption that everyone will get vaccinated
SwagColoredKitteh: .. a lot of optimism
reCurse: Or that it will re-enable normal life
reCurse: My optimism points to 5 years now
Astrobytes: I have none. We're doomed I tell thee :P
SwagColoredKitteh: maybe 5 years for everything to be 100% normal again?
reCurse: Let's say 90% normal
reCurse: But yeah
SwagColoredKitteh: but i think there will be a slow transition
SwagColoredKitteh: i'd already be very happy if i could meet with & hug closer friends
reCurse: True
SwagColoredKitteh: the rest i can live with missing for a far longer time
Astrobytes: My grandfather was put in a residential care home towards end of summer, I haven't given him a hug since March.
reCurse: :(
Salted: ok, for this gradient descent concept. Lets say each game is 200 turns long. That means there's been 200 inputs and outputs. But only 1 label to represent them all. That's like labeling 200 pictures cat/dog but only knowing a majority of the guesses were right. But there's no way to know which were good and bad. How might I go about using gradient descent?
SwagColoredKitteh: :(
reCurse: With a LOT of games
SwagColoredKitteh: yeah, a lot of kinds of ML need a ridiculous amount of time and data to converge
reCurse: My strongest uttt sits at 2M games right now.
Salted: The issue I have is that it may only ever need to do better at 51% of the games to end up always winning. So it doesn't converge to a very nice bot.
reCurse: ?
Salted: Maybe I'll read more about it and see if I can get gradient descent to work. Have you implemented a nn bot from gameplay before?
reCurse: Sure
reCurse: CSB
SwagColoredKitteh: ah yes CSB, the one true game
Salted: I really wish more games were similar in style.
Astrobytes: there's Search Race in optim
reCurse: Poor fit for nn
eulerscheZahl: mean max
bitrunner 2048
Astrobytes: Oh yeah, BR
eulerscheZahl: and fantastic bits, poker chip race if you extend the "similar" term a bit
SwagColoredKitteh: search race was fun but to get any better i need to refactor so much code
Astrobytes: lol, didn't Illedan create SR so he could use it for developing an NN? :)
SwagColoredKitteh: i havent done fantastic bits in so long
Salted: Oh, I haven't even joined bitrunner before. Nice
Astrobytes: *a NN
reCurse: Ok, my bad
reCurse: It's great to get something started
reCurse: It's bad fit to compete with
Astrobytes: Ah, gotcha.
jacek: an* NN. i always pronounce NN as ehn-ehn
reCurse: So you say an URL? :thinking:
reCurse: Nonsense
jacek: yu er el, so no
reCurse: :sweat:
Astrobytes: When in written form I tend to expand abbreviations mentally as I read. Hence a NN. In speech, of course if I used the NN abbreviation I would say 'an NN'.
jacek: AutomatonNN how should we call you?
AutomatonNN: why do you get out of wood 3 ?
BlaiseEbuth: He's right. Get back to wood 3 jacek.
eulerscheZahl: regarding a/an <acronym> I agree with jacek
Astrobytes: Both work in written form. In speech they don't.
Astrobytes: btw, eulerscheZahl (or anyone): the 'recolored' validators in samegame are recolored how?
eulerscheZahl: colors swapped,shiften/whatever
eulerscheZahl: didn't bother, just made a color-independent hashing
eulerscheZahl: first (at 0,0) is always color=0
eulerscheZahl: next value I find gets a 1 and so on
Astrobytes: Yup, makes sense. What the hell was the point in the recolored tests?
Astrobytes: *of the
eulerscheZahl: someone didn't believe us that we would solve it online anyways
eulerscheZahl: or expected his own students to do it online and wanted a more stable ranking for those
Astrobytes: Eh. Well...
eulerscheZahl: i argued against it. that's also why I didn't approve
Astrobytes: I remember now, yes.
eulerscheZahl: at least i could convince him to have a round-based game. not giving all commands in the first turn
eulerscheZahl: so you get the next state which helps debugging your sim
eulerscheZahl: + easier to enter
Astrobytes: Yeah, I remember that conversation. I wasn't bothered but it made sense.
SwagColoredKitteh: a bunch of my bots were crashing and i fixed and reuploaded them
SwagColoredKitteh: woo, chores
eulerscheZahl: some of mine died too :(
eulerscheZahl: mono -> .net core
jacek: use D [solved]
SwagColoredKitteh: cg switched to rust 2018 and i was using rust 2015 paths in use statements, and using try! instead of the ? operator
eulerscheZahl: and CG didn't add the System.Drawing.Common
jacek: does CG have java swing?
SwagColoredKitteh: wait, C# drawing?
eulerscheZahl: rust has release mode now
eulerscheZahl: i draw bitmaps for debugging
eulerscheZahl: easier to spot bugs than text output
SwagColoredKitteh: yeah i saw, so i also switched a bunch of my precompiled bots to just having the source code there
SwagColoredKitteh: much nicer
SwagColoredKitteh: always hated the precompilation hack
jacek: how can you show the bitmaps?
eulerscheZahl: i just draw them offline
jacek: :x
eulerscheZahl: and don't call the function online but still have the code
eulerscheZahl: now I had to remove that code for the uploaded version as it won't compile anymore :/
SwagColoredKitteh: what i used to do was to print a compact format to stderr for drawing some things
SwagColoredKitteh: and copypaste that
SwagColoredKitteh: but it's really not a great solution
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/53705/contest-tools-and-workflow/introduction
my setup
SwagColoredKitteh: would be cool if CG had some way to just directly draw on the game
eulerscheZahl: except I use VS Code now and no more MonoDevelop
SwagColoredKitteh: maybe using some prefix on stderr or sth
Astrobytes: Yeah, that was one cool thing about RAIC. CG version would have to be a little....simpler.
eulerscheZahl: RAIC has such a debugging framework
eulerscheZahl: damn
Astrobytes: :D
SwagColoredKitteh: just being able to plot the next move choices would be such a huge timesaver :P
SwagColoredKitteh: or being able to overlay a grid in crystal rush, as i'm calculating a few for stuff like how far a cell is from the closest radar
eulerscheZahl: hm, even sounds like an interesting project to bring such a debug interface to CG
SwagColoredKitteh: just for that would be nice, but it'd be even better for combinations of such grids, because that can lead to quite unintuitive behavior sometimes
Astrobytes: Considering we now have 3D, I don't think it should be such an awful project :)
eulerscheZahl: but more limited as it would be too easy to kill pixi
SwagColoredKitteh: this score here, combined with that score there, etc
AbacusCdilla: Hi Everyone
jacek: good evening
dev-tommy: Hi i try solve Nintendo Sponsored Contest ;)
jacek: good luck
dev-tommy: XOR is easy to reverse , but AND cant be easy reversed. I must combinate with another bits
MSmits: show those bits what for
dev-tommy: not figured out yet that
MSmits: it was meant to be encouraging
Westicles: I've always wondered what kind of work they do at Nintendo, that they are looking for these kind of skills...
dev-tommy: i try with 4bits numbers first
MSmits: why not start with nintendo 8 bit
dev-tommy: it will be easy to check on paper
Astrobytes: yes, it's a somewhat niche puzzle
dev-tommy: yes it is more of a mathematical puzzle than a programming one
Astrobytes: And quite a specialised mathematical puzzle at that.
dev-tommy: but i like this kind of puzzle
Astrobytes: Sure, go for it! :)
jacek: you like math? :thinking:
Astrobytes: *maths
jacek: s/a/e
dev-tommy: yes
dev-tommy: the decode answer is symmetrical so i think I'll find the missing bits information there
Westicles: I also like rearranging furnitures and eating sushis
LooMATE: Afternoon / Evening all - to a total newb to coding, which language would you suggest I start with - I know its likely a nuanced question but I am happy for personal opinions..!
JonLapensee: is website lagging or it is me ?
shefoo: Try javascript it's easy and fun, i came out of java and i loved javascript so much
Westicles: Python is easy and useful
shefoo: @westicles Agree
26: xylophone
26: start dat shit jk
Ragi: people use code like this in code clash with python3
exec(bytes('浩潰瑲洠瑡㭨㵲㬰㵩㬱...
Ragi: how do you encode to this form
Jk7292: idk
26: start the match derek
APJames: is this for coders strike back?
ritw777: hey all I'm new here!
Just solved the initial if-else problem. really fun IDE
