kokuou: no, you'll automatically get credit once the round is over
Putnam3145: so the answer is "yes", but it takes no effort on your part
FAKE: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/fb5f5369-191f-4964-b3a9-af03566a95df
FAKE: Nevermind, I see that the console output is kinda weird and puts the message for the next round in current round span...
idonthaveidea: hi]
idonthaveidea: hi*
idonthaveidea: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/133140858bf22b54faba07657ac3368bfc4a5e0
xphoenixd: lmao
xphoenixd: 2 seconds ://
Nghia64582: how the fuck
MSmits: stored solution
MSmits: if you do hundreds of clashes you see repeats
eulerscheZahl: i don't see anything suspicious about solving a clash in 2min 35s
MSmits: oh I saw 2 seconds, did not click
MSmits: thought they solved it in 2 seconds :P
maybesmurf: lol
Memo12334: hacks?
Lauwie-Timmer: Im a bit confused can anyone pass me a Legends of Code & Magic sample script
MSmits: are there starter bots for it?
Lauwie-Timmer: idk
MSmits: you should probably ask a more specific question
MSmits: about what you're confused about
Lauwie-Timmer: How I get my cards and the opponents cards
MSmits: you dont get your opponent cards I think, just how many he has. And of course whats on the table
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/CodinGame/LegendsOfCodeAndMagic/blob/master/config/Boss.java
there it is
MSmits: did you write a bot for a game before Lauwie-Timmer?
MSmits: cuz locam is a bad place to start
MSmits: it is complicated, both the input and the game itself
MSmits: unless of course you're a good coder and just haven't done bots before. Then you could figure it out probably
Lauwie-Timmer: Oh, yes im pretty new to codingame in general
Lauwie-Timmer: I did a couple easy puzzles at first
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: bots are a big investment. Can take a few hrs to even get a basic bot going in some cases
Lauwie-Timmer: Ive only made cryptocurrencty tradingbots but not bots for games
MSmits: cool
MSmits: well if locam motivates you to keep going it's ok I guess
MSmits: I'm just saying there are easier games
Lauwie-Timmer: Where do you suggest i start
aCat: hi - yep LOCM is a bad place to start ;]
MSmits: hmm the website tells you to do coders strike back basically
MSmits: but there are other options
Memo12334: but can you solve Lumen
Lauwie-Timmer: I dont know
MSmits: if you like board games, just about all of them are easier than locam. Getting a bot working there is easy, but you need a search algorithm for the bot to be any good
Lauwie-Timmer: Okay Ill check out another game first
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/tic-tac-toe
this one starts with a classic 3x3 tic tac toe
MSmits: that's true for most simple bot games. The simpler the game, the more likely that you need a robust search algorithm
aCat: there are some nice not too hardcore things to do like tron, codebusters, fantastic bits
MSmits: yeah UTTT is great to start with also
Memo12334: do u guys recommend to do all easy puzzles first?
aCat: when you don't need a very proper algorithh to do nicely
MSmits: Memo12334 definitely not all
aCat: UTTT also
Memo12334: one should be able to do easy puzzle in ~10 minutes?
Memo12334: before going to more advanced stuff
MSmits: Memo12334 I am not able to do that most of the time :P
**eulerscheZahl hasn't done all easy one and probably won't do
Memo12334: oh lol, good to hear ngl
Memo12334: eulerscheZahl why?
eulerscheZahl: some are boring
MSmits: I'm mediocre speed. Many strong players can do them below 10 mins though, including euler
Memo12334: crazy abstract thinking
MSmits: I sometimes can do 10 min, usually 15-20 for easy
Memo12334: ok if I have done 20 easy then im going to medium
MSmits: also Memo12334, difficulties arent set in stone. They are very relative
MSmits: you may find some medium ones really easy
MSmits: on the other hand, i think marslander 2 is medium, unless they changed that
eulerscheZahl: you may even want to have a look at the hard ones. and step back to medium if you struggle with hard
MSmits: it's really *not* medium
Memo12334: I struggle even with easy ones :S
Memo12334: did like 15 or something now but still struggle everytime I begin a new easy challenge
MSmits: ahh keep going a bit then
eulerscheZahl: mars lander depends on how you approach it: you can pass with a few simple if-else statements
or you can write a search. the latter isn't easy and the first isn't a generic solution but just passing the given testcases
MSmits: sometimes they require specific domain knowledge that can make them hard for you
MSmits: eulerscheZahl i did it with heuristics and had great trouble with it
MSmits: they are hit and miss, guess i didnt find the right ones
Memo12334: when one is rdy to do the clash of code that's about bots, genetic algos etc
eulerscheZahl: i tried a search and failed. then solved it with heuristics in about 20min
MSmits: Memo12334 are you asking when you can do multis?
eulerscheZahl: after solving all hard ones and most very hard ones before
MSmits: ahh ok
Memo12334: ye I just saw this clash of code thing on the main page thats about bots and it got my interest. It goes from bronz to legend. Is that multi
MSmits: hmm i think you are confused
MSmits: clash of code is something else
MSmits: that's basically puzzles that are easier than easy
MSmits: but you solve them competitively
MSmits: speed etc.
MSmits: multiplayer arena's are the bot games
MSmits: totally different world
Memo12334: oh it was this https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/coders-strike-back
MSmits: yes thats one of the many bot games
MSmits: whether or not you're ready for that is kind of hard to say
Memo12334: awesome stuff
MSmits: if you want to rank high, then you're not. If you just like to get a bot going and get out of the lower leagues, then you're ok
MSmits: some bot games are hard to get going in, like legends of code and magic, that we just discussed
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer
just give it a try. you can also check out the other games and watch a few replays to see what looks interesting (and easy enough) to you
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming
eulerscheZahl: that's the link i wanted to share
Memo12334: yes but tbh I want to get good in easy challenges first.
MSmits: sounds good. It's what I did
MSmits: but don't be afraid to fail against other players. You don't need to be great to compete
MSmits: it doesn't take that much to beat half the players on the board really
MSmits: most of submitted bots are simple bots and a few if-else rules might get you halfway up the ladder in some of those games
MSmits: a few days ago I tried the board game breakthrough and a bot doing random moves got rank 129 out of 163
MSmits: (not suggesting this game for beginners though)
Memo12334: yes but u have maths background tho
MSmits: that helps in some cases and it useless in others
MSmits: for example, you can do the game code a la mode, that's about cooking food
MSmits: math won't help there
MSmits: also, often you can steal the math required for simulation of the game from the game referee (the source code)
Memo12334: where is that
Memo12334: github?
MSmits: it's linked from the description of the game usually, yeah github
Memo12334: oh
MSmits: sometimes it's complicated though, i would not go into the math of coders strike back
Memo12334: im trying to get good in easy medium challenge first for sure
MSmits: it's really extensive. Most of these physics games have some math that'll scare you if you dont have any background in it
MSmits: but most games aren't physics games
Memo12334: good to know because I am more motivated to through my maths book now
Memo12334: go*
MSmits: Memo12334 the easy puzzles that will help you most are the ones that force you to learn search algorithms
MSmits: or maybe those are medium mostly
MSmits: pathfinding and such
Memo12334: oh I will look for those after I completed Lumen
MSmits: is lumen the one where you need to output which squares are lit?
Memo12334: not lit
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: I think i did that one
Memo12334: the places which givee zero light
MSmits: when practicing python
Memo12334: I don't need to do something with recursion right?
MSmits: recursion is rarely *needed* though sometimes it's useful, for sure not here though
MSmits: i'll see what i did
Memo12334: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b0073dae-a6ff-4547-be9d-f59bdee84baf
Memo12334: got only this till now :S
MSmits: i did a 4 loop
MSmits: 4 loops inside eachother
MSmits: 2 loops to loop over all cells
Memo12334: ye that's what I got now
MSmits: then for each cell, another 2 loops over all cells so i can see if a lamp is close enough
MSmits: if not, then it's one of the zero light cells
doompack: i dont understand
MSmits: my solution is not very efficient
MSmits: but works
MSmits: doompack understand what?
BlackWraith: Anyone know the difference between encode and decode for the Enigma Machine puzzle? Encode is fine, struggling with Decode.
Memo12334: yes
Memo12334: decode is just reverse of encode
Memo12334: so rotor 3 to 1 and then deceasar
BlackWraith: Thanks.
Putnam3145: dang i'm not seeing any other solutions for the weekly
Putnam3145: guess i'll have to check later??
jacek: ohai
eulerscheZahl: moin
MSmits: hi
MSmits: hey jacek, I am still trying to get the race patterns to work. Never got access to the paper i found on this, but I figured out something. It still has bugs though
MSmits: there is one paper that you can access but it doesn't explain much
MSmits: you need to request access for the other paper I found, but they didnt give me :(
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/481139584 here's an example. Solves pretty soon, but incorrectly identifies some patterns as winning I think
jacek: well i have something too, at the very least its easy to solve 1-2 plies before the end
MSmits: yeah, I had that without patterns
MSmits: 4-5 plies at best
Mutant17: hello
MSmits: unless there are almost no pieces, then i could get 10 or so
jacek: its quite hard to search for paper for breakthrough
MSmits: yeah
jacek: all you get is about the ai breakthrough or something
MSmits: yeah or a breakthrough in medicine or something :p
darkhorse64: you can find the "Programming Breakthrough" article on google books. It's incomplete but you get the original evaluation function.
MSmits: ohh
MSmits: thats the one i requested!
MSmits: thanks darkhorse64
MSmits: is the function any good?
darkhorse64: It has 4 features: piece count, piece value, piece safety, breakthough capability (how many friends or empty squares in a 2x3 rectangle in front of the piece). I did not implement that one (paper looks unclear to me)
darkhorse64: I read you have mobility (similar to the 2x3 rectangle ?) and empty columns
darkhorse64: and piece count
jacek: piece safety is quite important. undefended attacked piece is a no-no
jacek: and of course piece-square table
MSmits: i dont have that yet
MSmits: basically I have most things except attack/defend feature
MSmits: and all my parameters are unfitted
jacek: have you seen checkers link yesterday?
MSmits: nope
jacek: http://www.fierz.ch/cake186.php
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/db8cacf0-888d-4f4a-b98c-0dafc2ad9b02
MSmits: row max and power basically means 2k points for 7th row (almost win) and quadratic reduction for earlier rows
MSmits: it fills an array i use for lookups
darkhorse64: empty what ?
MSmits: nice one jacek, may help me figure out a way to tune params
MSmits: empty columns
MSmits: not sure if that's a good feature
MSmits: but it's in for now
MSmits: https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/37024/Simple-AI-for-the-Game-of-Breakthrough
MSmits: I used this to draw features from
MSmits: its obviously horribly inefficiently implemented there, with loops over pieces instead of bit operations, but the ideas arent bad and got me to rank 14, even without fitting params
MSmits: generally I tend to pick my params fairly well at first try though
MSmits: though my piece count value is probably too high
MSmits: and some of the others too low
MSmits: the reason i dont have an attack/defend piece thingy yet is because that link implements it very weirdly
darkhorse64: I remember this one. I have seen your performance figures. You have at least a 2x advantage over my bot. I need to at least backport a few improvements I did on my latest MCTS. My piece count bonus is within the range of my piece squre value
MSmits: same with me i suppose
MSmits: max = 2k for square value
MSmits: i dont do anything magic to get this kind of performance though. The last few games, all I did was find all the features I can think of, slap a param on them and start fitting
darkhorse64: my range is [2-36]
MSmits: mine goes 2k -1k-500-225 etc. starting from 7th row back
MSmits: possibility quadratic is not the best power to use here
MSmits: thats why i gave it a parameter to fit later
jacek: and home row?
Lauwie-Timmer: With tic-tac toe how do I know what field im in
Lauwie-Timmer: when theres 9 fields
MSmits: not sure, very low jacek
MSmits: it's rounded to integers
MSmits: floored i guess
jacek: Lauwie-Timmer depends on last move
jacek: MSmits huh, home row is important
darkhorse64: Home have highest value than middle row
MSmits: really
MSmits: let me add that to my list then :)
Lauwie-Timmer: What do you mean with depends on last move
MSmits: when the opponent plays top right corner, you play top right board next
MSmits: you decide where your opponent goes
MSmits: watch a few replays
jacek: if last move on small board was top right, then you play in top right board
MSmits: from leaderboard
darkhorse64: My values are lifted from the Porgramming Breakthrough paper. I guess my move gen is bad. I have three int64 for left, right, forward, did not find a better idea
darkhorse64: 5, 15, 15, 5, 5, 15, 15, 5, http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/103179d2-35fc-4b3f-9bdb-0b0e4417dbf5
MSmits: i have the same movegen
darkhorse64: home row first
MSmits: inline uint64_t DiagonalLeftMoves(uint64_t board)
{
return board & DIAG_LEFT & ~(board >> 7);
}
MSmits: DIAG_LEFT is a mask so as not to go off the board on the side
MSmits: i dont bother having a row evaluation for the last row because it's a solved state
MSmits: no need to ever evaluate it
MSmits: hmm lookups will be slower this way, if you have to loop over all pieces
MSmits: I have it this way for onitama
MSmits: but there are very few pieces
darkhorse64: Looking back at my 9 months old code, I think what sucks is that I build a move [start,end] array from these ints. No alloc there, but still many writes
MSmits: ah yes
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/6e5f9c4c-eda7-4426-b55a-d98c51b60fa4
MSmits: I always do it that way
MSmits: not sure if it is the fastest way
darkhorse64: It saves writes at least. It's the drawback of reusing code. I tend to write the engine according to the MCTS interface. In this case, altering the interface is better. I have also a different code path for B & W
MSmits: ah yeah thats something i was struggling with
MSmits: I have 1 codepath, but I had to keep both playerboards from their own perspective, their homerows being the smallest indices
darkhorse64: I gave up early
MSmits: so everytime i do a movegeneration I reverse the bits of the opposing player
MSmits: well you already won because you're the creator.
MSmits: kudos
darkhorse64: There's an intrinsic for that ?
MSmits: no there's not unfortunately
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/d0d4a037-e2a9-4cdb-824f-e18b07e514c3
MSmits: but you do it once per movegen, you're generating some 20 moves and only have to do this once
eulerscheZahl: that code looks familiar
Astrobytes: ;)
MSmits: yeah i distilled it off that page you guys shared
darkhorse64: I am not the game designer. Even though I am a Java noob, it was not too difficult
MSmits: it was spread out over severall .h files
eulerscheZahl: he also tried to find the minimum number of operations needed for different lengths
eulerscheZahl: for 3 bits you can keep the middle one
Scarfield: why are numbers given as hex and not int, saw that in othello bots as well?
MSmits: yeah thats why it was spread out
MSmits: hex is easier, you can imagine a single hex as 4 bits
MSmits: I know F = 1111
MSmits: i often use decimal for smaller ones though
eulerscheZahl: in Java you can do 0b1111 instead of 0xF
MSmits: you can do it in most languages
darkhorse64: In C++, too
eulerscheZahl: in C# too since recently
eulerscheZahl: wait, C++ has that? how could I miss it?
MSmits: I used it in c++ i think in ooc
jacek: c++14 or better
darkhorse64: Yavalath needs many, many masks. Binary representation helps
jacek: i use 0b for uttt
MSmits: Scarfield look for example at this one:
MSmits: uint64_t DIAG_LEFT = 0x00FEFEFEFEFEFEFE;
MSmits: FE = one row
MSmits: FF is a full row
MSmits: FE is 1 less on the rightmost bit
Scarfield: ooh yea thats neat
Scarfield: ty
MSmits: np
darkhorse64: CG delivers bitboarding MS
MSmits: MS?
Astrobytes: Scarfield, you can visualise that kind of stuff here:
http://cinnamonchess.altervista.org/bitboard_calculator/Calc.html
MSmits: well that would have been nice when i just started out with those :)
Astrobytes: (no https unfortunately)
MSmits: now I see those in my dreams :P
darkhorse64: Master of Science
Astrobytes: hehehe
Astrobytes: MSc
MSmits: oh right
Don.Paul: Hi guys
MSmits: yeah if you do a lot of board games you get really good at it
MSmits: and sometimes it helps for contests
Scarfield: haha of course thats a thing, ty chessstroBytes
Don.Paul: Can I access past problem's statement from clash of code?
Astrobytes: no worries Bitfield
MSmits: does it even show you the name of the problem?
Don.Paul: I guess not ;(
MSmits: i couldnt find a way to do it, aside from finding the contributions if you are high enough level
MSmits: it's to stop you from hardcoding too easily i guess
MSmits: i mean storing earlier clashes
Don.Paul: ah, right
MSmits: you can still do it
MSmits: it's just more work
Don.Paul: ok, thank you!
MSmits: but if you do so many clashes that you're seeing repeats, maybe you should look for funner things to do on CG:)
Don.Paul: I was trying to find some exercises to use strings
Don.Paul: I want to show my friends something about string.
MSmits: ahh plenty of those in the easy puzzle section
MSmits: maybe do the ascii puzzle?
MSmits: not sure if that one is suitable for your purposes but it's a string puzzle
Don.Paul: I can't playing
Don.Paul: play it*
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/ascii-art
jacek: hm?
Don.Paul: Omg, but there wasn't any solve button till now.
MSmits: I do magic
Don.Paul: Thank's!
MSmits: np
DeathBringer666: If I'm not 1st I'll hack every one of you
DeathBringer666: I know your IP source code
jacek: if youre not 1st, will you delete account
DeathBringer666: ofc
Astrobytes: Bring it on
JBM: "IP source code" that's a nice one ^^
JBM: i'm stealing it
Astrobytes: Surely deliberate. No one is that foolish.
JBM: ofc
Astrobytes: brb, downloading more RAM
JBM: RAM? i wanna download wine
JBM: with the usb faucet
CptComplex: i have a question: can i use the unity engine here?
JBM: not really
MSmits: I used it :P
CptComplex: so i have to code all this vecor bullshit myself?
MSmits: I used it to create a program off line to hard code zombies validators :P
MSmits: but generally no, unity is useless
JBM: you can copy-paste it
MSmits: CptComplex you dont need vectors much except for some physics games
CptComplex: i know
Astrobytes: "Vector bullshit"
CptComplex: haha sorry
Astrobytes: :grin:
CptComplex: i want to do the coders strike back challenge
MSmits: yeah thats one of the few places where it can be helpful
CptComplex: so i need vectors
MSmits: people have shared code for it though
JBM: just use complex numbers
MSmits: check the links on the csb page
CptComplex: hahaha
JBM: every language has it
jacek: sqrt(-1)?
CptComplex: oh o thought it would be a joke with my name
JBM: now you're dreaming
JBM: nope, not awake enough for that
CptComplex: nah i already coded the basic vector stuff a year ago but it would be nice to have the basic funktions
CptComplex: thank you
CptComplex: i will use some shared code and do the rest myself
inoryy: it is a fitting name if you're asking for the whole unity engine to do very basic vector calculations
Astrobytes: :D
MSmits: are there languages with vecotr stuff in their basic libraries?
inoryy: that's like asking for a death star to kill a bug
JBM: "hey it works"
MSmits: some bugs need the death star imho
Astrobytes: hahaha well put
CptComplex: i mean.. i would also settle with a small vector library
Astrobytes: Write yourself one, won't take long and you can reuse it
CptComplex: but i think importing is not possible at all
MSmits: you cant have different files here
MSmits: everything goes in 1 file
MSmits: so you cant add your own library
Astrobytes: just copy-paste what you need
AlwaysBeDream: hello guys , can you give me any suggestion website which provides payment gateway service.
Memo12334: still doing Lumen
Memo12334: *cries*
MSmits: jacek I got it to work finally
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/481160497
MSmits: race patterns
MSmits: bot still plays pretty poorly due to bad eval, but at least it solves about 10 plies before the end :)
MSmits: went from rank 14 to 11, about 2 rating
Laminator: whoa, so many cool games out there lol
MSmits: yeah too many :)
Drihnking: hi
Chen: submitted a new version of my bot but it's performing a lot worse
Chen: feelsbadman
MSmits: which game?
Chen: ye ol' tron
MSmits: ahh
MSmits: I havent gotten to legend in that one
Chen: my old paranoid bot from 2 years ago got to 23rd in legend
Chen: i had a lot of new ideas that i thought would work better
Chen: but it seems not
MSmits: ah nice rank
Chen: ty :D
Chen: i should probably do some other games at some point
MSmits: yeah
jacek: mhm
MSmits: sup jacek?
jacek: nice, about race patterns
MSmits: I can give you a quick explanation without getting into coding details if you want?
jacek: i have some 'patterns' as well but probably less robust
MSmits: we might not be talking about the same thing
MSmits: patterns is kind of general
MSmits: your ntuples in othello are patterns too
jacek: well not patterns, but more like ifs
MSmits: ah
jacek: so pawn can go through the defense holes
MSmits: I do stuff with pext and pdep to extract triangles in front of the piece i just moved
MSmits: if you only take the piece of the board that can affect your pawn, you can use a lookup array to see if it can be blocked
MSmits: if you do it when the pawn enters the opponent board (row 4), it is at most 15 cells
MSmits: so 15 bit
MSmits: I only use this array if this pawn is closer to the end than any of the opponent pawns because otherwise he would win the race
MSmits: or *may*
MSmits: this is not exactly what the paper was talking about, because my racing patters only work for 1 player pawn vs all opponent pawns in front of it. It does not allow for player pawns working together
MSmits: (though they are allowed to be in the triangle, it just doesnt count as help)
MSmits: but the paper pretty much failed to generalize their method, so who knows, maybe this is as much as you can do with in CG constraints
AntiSquid: which paper?
MSmits: Solving breakthrough with Race Patterns and Job-Level Proof Number Search
AntiSquid: ok cheers
AntiSquid: found free legal link:
http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/%7En/pub/2011/solving.pdf
google only sent me to paid links lol
is this full version 12 pages?
MSmits: I think so
MSmits: there is a different paper called programming breakthrough
MSmits: wait no not that one
MSmits: there is another one about racing patterns, but its not public
AntiSquid: then i am lost because the one i linked is closest in title ...
MSmits: yeah
jacek: i think this is the paper no?
MSmits: lemme check if i could find it
MSmits: cant find it now, but I am sure it wasnt just that one paper.
MSmits: i requested it on researchgate, but i cant find pending requests
MSmits: Using Partial Tablebases in Breakthrough
MSmits: found it
jacek: thats for 6x6?
MSmits: doesnt matter
MSmits: it's the concept i was interested in
MSmits: end game tables
AntiSquid: browsing history ... filter by research gate
jacek: i bet they just build the upper 3x6 or 4x6 rectangle
MSmits: probably, but for racing patterns you only need to worry about a wedge shape pattern in front of a pawn, so it's doable on any size
MSmits: that is if i am not using the concept wrong, it's my own interpretation. They dont explain it all that well
jacek: like mcts solver eh
MSmits: well the mcts solver paper is explained fairly well, but it doesnt work for draws and the pseudocode is :poop:
jacek: good theres no draws in bt
MSmits: for bt it should be fine yeah
MSmits: bah I added more features and now my bot is worse
MSmits: hmm it seems bad when your bot chooses to advance one pawn all the way to the opponent board only to trade it
MSmits: you waste many turns that way when the opponent only loses a pawn that hasnt advanced much
MSmits: I guess I am valueing advancement too much
jacek: if its not supported by anyone, its worthless
MSmits: yeah
Andriamanitra: the fuck is going on with the test cases of this puzzle https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/49a99e75f2c6c71fc58a418682b4b3c842
Allis: How do you mean?
Andriamanitra: try in ide
Allis: Oh, wow.
jacek: no stub?
Andriamanitra: i guess it's all kinds of broken
Rosener: lol that's weird, I just did what I thought was that one in CoC and it worked fine in there
Andriamanitra: yeah it worked in game
Andriamanitra: i only got 75% despite passing the tests so i looked it up to see where i went wrong
Rosener: you forgot to convert to integer before you sorted descending, right? or did you take another path
Andriamanitra: i didnt think to remove duplicate primes i think
Scarfield: its in contributions and not approved, i doubt you had that exact puzzle in coc, but another very similar one
Andriamanitra: can't tell if that's *the* issue because it doesn't show the validators
Andriamanitra: it is accepted, it just doesn't show who approved it
Scarfield: ah true
eulerscheZahl: that's a really old contribution. from before the moderating system
jacek: before the System? is this possible?
eulerscheZahl: before the 3 votes for or against a contribution, there was a set of users who got permission by CG to moderate the puzzles. only 2 approvals needed
Andriamanitra: myeah it's also some kind of protected, doesn't let me edit it
eulerscheZahl: you can see some puzzles that got approved with only 2 votes
Andriamanitra: would be nice to add a visible test with duplicate primes
eulerscheZahl: and this puzzle is from even before that 2 user vote
eulerscheZahl: there are some old contributions with obvious flaws (not only CoC, also regular puzzles)
eulerscheZahl: but no one except G can edit them
eulerscheZahl: CG that is
eulerscheZahl: e.g. https://www.codingame.com/training/medium/reverse-polish-notation
jacek: aww
eulerscheZahl: the ROL takes an argument how far to ROL
eulerscheZahl: but it's always ROL by 3
eulerscheZahl: if you check the contribution itself, it's a dynamic ROL with argument. also the solution from the creator takes that argument into account
eulerscheZahl: but someone (CG?) edited it after, leaving that useless and confusing argument
eulerscheZahl: oh, I can edit it :o
that seems new
eulerscheZahl: in the past the edit button of the contribution was disabled
eulerscheZahl: and the contribution was out of sync with the puzzle visible on the CG website
eulerscheZahl: and I just realized that I wrote a wall of text. Sorry
Scarfield: ban !
Astrobytes: was gonna say, euler's overly complex answer
eulerscheZahl: can I ban myself? i'll try with kick
Scarfield: xD
eulerscheZahl: nope
inoryy: your case will be reviewed by the golf board at the earliest
Astrobytes: hehehe
eulerscheZahl: that's valuable CG history
eulerscheZahl: you should all attend euler's history class
Astrobytes: love it, resident historian and biographer
Astrobytes: they should pay you really
eulerscheZahl: oh that's fine. I paid myself with a teapot :P
Astrobytes: lol, you gonna explore that any further?
eulerscheZahl: probably not
Astrobytes: good POC regardless
jacek: Automaton2000 whats the verdict?
Automaton2000: not that i don't like java
Scarfield: https://frieslandversand.de/teekanne-1-4l-weiss-utah-teapot
eulerscheZahl: too white
jacek: too racist
Scarfield: hey hey Mr race pattern :p
Astrobytes: lol oh dear
Scarfield: there are other colors, but the site is a bit weird with searching for a brand/type
Astrobytes: All teapots must be created in the image of their Lord & Master, darkhorse 64
Scarfield: also my german ist nicht so gut
Scarfield: yesterday i got a youtube recommendation for a video with the utah teapot, had no idea about the error 418, but learned why euler named the contribution as such
Astrobytes: that's the teapot protocol RFC right?
jacek: Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon?
eulerscheZahl: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418
Scarfield: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418
Astrobytes: that one yeah
Scarfield: noo too slow
Astrobytes: Slowfield
Scarfield: xD
mudiko: you cant print to check variables sometimes
mudiko: what else can i do
mudiko: is there another way to log
mudiko: in python
Astrobytes: flush
Astrobytes: flush stderr that is
mudiko: ty
Andriamanitra: on codingame printing to stderr is probably the best you can do, but you should look up pdb and breakpoint()
Scarfield: for (int genome = turn; genome < popSize; genome++) {
for (int gene = turn; gene < geneCount; gene++) { ...
Scarfield: :'( genome should start from 0, this took hours to find piwiu
siobahnv: hey, just joined! Was trying out The Descent in JavaScript and when I tried to console.log an array it just print the first bracket... halp?
jacek: print to stderr?
siobahnv: So console.error() instead of console.log()?
siobahnv: Though stackoverflow is also suggesting this: process.stderr.write()
siobahnv: oofph, console output didn't like those
siobahnv: Sweet, console.error() worked!
siobahnv: Little beginner unfriendly though? or how would one know to use console.error() instead of console.log() for javascript?
jacek: there are comments
siobahnv: true, there is in the base code: console.error('Debug messages...');
SpaceNerd111: I just joined also. There is a menu on the left hand side of the screen where you can get hints. The pseudocode given helped me figure out The Descent
siobahnv: ah fair, I didn't check out the hints :)
siobahnv: I'm hoping to get a few friends hooked, but they're beginners and concerned about them getting frustrated... and "feedback" helps a lot I've found when debugging...
Astrobytes: there's also a custom testcase feature in the puzzles, to aid with debugging
siobahnv: ++
Bam9: help pls. what does this mean? [int(i) for i in input().split()]
Bam9: Is this even a beinners course?
Bam9: beginners*
JBM: it isn't
Bam9: Where can I find the beginners course?
siobahnv: maybe try the easy stuff? https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
Bam9: damm those are considered easy? Im frustrated already.. :(
Bam9: Ill still continue to try
Bam9: Thank you!
Fredysred: Try clash of code... its against other players but the tasks there are simpler than the ones from puzzles... at least in my opinion
siobahnv: the hints mentioned above^^^ might help too?
siobahnv: I found I needed to google on the side ;P
siobahnv: this is a useful site https://www.w3schools.com/
Bam9: Alright thanks fredy! The hints are confusing other from the psuedocode and reading the solutions to understand.
siobahnv: fair
Bam9: oo alright, thanks sio. Ill use it
CyrusTheCurator: I'm getting so discouraged. Every time I learn a new framework or wrap up a new project I still feel no closer to finally landing a junior job.
siobahnv: <3
AntiSquid: that's called training to become a unicorn CyrusTheCurator
AntiSquid: just focus on one thing instead
AntiSquid: make a project for yourself
siobahnv: I find the hunt for a job is much like coding, gotta get used to rejection (and ghosting) similar to buggy code before you land a job or get working code :P
AntiSquid: i am saying focus on one thing because you could research a company and apply for one of their junior roles based on what they need and what you know
AntiSquid: or just apply for testing code, dull but it's an entry role
Putnam3145: i am reading my weekly challenge code from 11 hours ago and finding it weirdly galaxy-brained
Putnam3145: like, my own code?
Putnam3145: galaxy-brained in the minorly pejorative sense
Putnam3145: i.e. "might've overcomplicated it"
siobahnv: :joy:
Bam9: finding clash of code super hard too. Should i quit trying to learn programming??
CyrusTheCurator: siobahnv, I like your mentality, hehe
CyrusTheCurator: Yeah, often I'll find DRYer ways to refactor even recently written code, so I try to spot-check things as I see them
CyrusTheCurator: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/617fc5e4-307b-46a0-b4db-e4d60328c7ec
CyrusTheCurator: they totally abstracted my message :I
Gorbit99: Bam9 programming is a difficult thing, and codingame isn't an easy beginner challenge
Gorbit99: I'd suggest checking out other options first, ones that actually teach you programming and don't just test your algorithmization skills
Bam9: oo I see. Alright thanks Gorbit99! Any suggestions for what I can use?
Gorbit99: my personal practicing site is codesignal, similar to this in theory, less gamified, but it puts you through the very basics
Gorbit99: of course this after you already have the basics down
Bam9: alright thanks man
Gorbit99: programming sadly starts with sitting down and learning a bit, what is the lang you want to learn?
Bam9: Python
bpeter: Hey Gorbit
Gorbit99: I don't know a good tutorial for that one, but I'm sure others have a suggestion
Gorbit99: Hey bpeter
Bam9: Oo
Bam9: What language do you think I should learn?
Gorbit99: that just depends on what you want to achieve with ti
Gorbit99: it*
Rosener: Python is a fine language, stick with it if you're aimless for now
Rosener: As you learn more about programming in general and other languages, you might find yourself drawn to them for the aims that you're interested in
Gorbit99: at which point you won't need as much time to learn a new language
Gorbit99: just like with actual languages
Gorbit99: but of course, if you already have a goal in mind, it's just natural to select a first language that helps in that goal
Gorbit99: motivation is key
Bam9: alright thanks man
bpeter: python is very good to platforms like CodinGame
Rosener: especially for CoC since it can be very compact and quick to write
Rosener: (if you like to do that)
Gorbit99: then there's ruby :^)
bpeter: yes ruby
bpeter: i use C++, but same i very fast
Andriamanitra: always a pleasant surprise when you get 100% correct in reverse mode only to find out that passing the validators requires handling extra cases you had no way to know existed
Andriamanitra: suddenly 100% is 25%
Iuykza: Ouch.
Bam9: Can I ask someone for help??
Iuykza: I can answer as long as it's a Javascript question.
Bam9: dam its a python question
Iuykza: Well go ahead anyways, someone might know.
Gorbit99: Bam9 it's rare that a question is actually language specific
Bam9: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/9a6abd17-d010-44d1-af8b-1b6cb0c5c50f
Bam9: so this is a guessing game to learn python for beginners
Andriamanitra: "never ask to ask, just ask instead" is solid piece of advice
Gorbit99: ^we have this same "rule" on a discord server even
Bam9: and im having a syntax error on
Bam9: line 9
Bam9: idk whats wrong
Andriamanitra: your indentation is off
Bam9: oo alright lol. noted :D
Bam9: oo
Gorbit99: an important thing to mention in these cases is what the error says
Iuykza: hackerman.jpg
Gorbit99: just for later reference
Bam9: o
Gorbit99: good old python with it's forced indentation, really nice
Bam9: lol
Andriamanitra: i would suggest sticking to 4 space indents with python, it's the most common standard and makes it obvious when you're doing things wrong
Gorbit99: isn't 2 space the most standard:
Gorbit99: ?
Andriamanitra: unless you're doing code golf, then 1 space indent is what you want :D
Andriamanitra: almost no one uses 2 space indents with python, i think google might?
Andriamanitra: pep is 4 spaces
Gorbit99: well, tabs are usually 4 spaces and that's what you are imitating with spaces
Gorbit99: but I really had this notion, that 2 spaces => python code
Andriamanitra: ruby is traditionally 2 space indents, maybe you're confusing it with that
Gorbit99: I'm one of those weird people, who doesn't actually use ruby, just in golf, and I don't see any ruby code ever
Iuykza: how do we send snippets?
LBP: git
LBP: sorry, wrong post
Gorbit99: if they are long enough, it will be pastebinned
Gorbit99: so just post them
Iuykza: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c98a3d20-704e-49ac-b25c-52cb3d8229a1
Iuykza: Doing this challenge. https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock
Iuykza: It fails on test 5.
Iuykza: Which has 1024 players, and I'm not sure how to even debug that.
Gorbit99: error is in outcomes, S L should be C L
Gorbit99: had the exact same error myself when I did this
Iuykza: seriously? :o
Iuykza: holy jesus you are a god.
Gorbit99: no, I'm a Gorbit
Gorbit99: easy to mistake, similar name
Iuykza: Didn't expect you to be able to understand my code.
Andriamanitra: how evil of the creator to come up with two things that start with same letter
Gorbit99: I didn't look at the code, this specific challenge is a hell to get down into a win-lose table
Gorbit99: well, it wasn't them
Gorbit99: afaik it was big bang theory
Iuykza: yep
Iuykza: I'm surprised my code wasn't that much more complex than the top answer.
Laminator: always nice when I just barely have enough time to solve a shortest problem, let alone shorten it at all
Iuykza: Relatable. I'm not good at those either.
Gorbit99: it's practice
Andriamanitra: there are some clashes that i'm sure i couldn't solve in an hour let alone 15 minutes
SPDene: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/6c9a90c2-927b-4ea2-bea0-a180f0c91801
Gorbit99: there's a super hard one
Gorbit99: pathfinding in 15 minutes
Iuykza: I was doing a clash with reverse mode. Thought it was the fobonacci sequence. Kept failing the tests. Ended up being something simple: Math.floor(x * 1.5)
Andriamanitra: most reverse mode clashes are just stupid
Andriamanitra: there are some well-designed ones where each test case clues you in a little bit more but they're rare
PatrickMcGinnisII: I just only started clashes cause of the new quest xp
Gorbit99: oh, pathfinding in 15 minutes doesn't exist anymore
PatrickMcGinnisII: there is a clash puzzle list w/ descriptions for all of them somewhere
Iuykza: I don't understand what that one is asking for. What's pathfinding?
Gorbit99: I use euler's CG puzzle search
Gorbit99: pathfinding is when you need to find a path between 2 points given a maze or similar
Andriamanitra: i remember doing pathfinding through a 3x3 "maze", but that's so small you just code all the possibilities :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: holy crap 706 of them
Gorbit99: well, this was full on pathfinding
Gorbit99: I finished it in around 10-12 minutes
PatrickMcGinnisII: Tiramon were u able to do don't panic in under 200 chars in php?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm stuck at 380 chars
pydlv: I hate reverse
pydlv: worst mode
pydlv: dude this puzzle must be broken
Allis: Which one?
zile151: personally i don't think any reverse problems are "broken", I just think I waste too much time figuring out the less elegant reverse problems when I could be getting better at coding
zile151: just my 2 cents
pydlv: nvm its not broken Im just stupid and misread the thing. I just though so because no one out of 5 people scored higher than 70%
Allis: Sites like this really aren't great for getting better at coding. They're good for practicing what you already know, and that has some value.
PatrickMcGinnisII: Allis I have to disagree, there is alot of lazy programming (just look at Microsoft), the tricks to squeezing efficiency in processing and storage are explored in this site. The application of some really in-depth maths are also used and are perfectly usable in the real world.
Gorbit99: this site isn't very good for practicing algorithmization, it can be done, but you will be faced with more hurdles than on other ones
Gorbit99: especially coc, that's terrible for that purpose
PatrickMcGinnisII: Allis, I'm old, I used to have to program the crap out of a 386 processor to get a decent frame rate. When the pentiums came out, the added "power" lead to lazy coders.
StarShip: Do you guys think clash of code is the best resource on this site, or are there any better ones?
PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, coc ... I never did much of it until today... its not enjoyable to me. but with 700+ super easy puzzles in it...people can practice...hell need practice.
StarShip: yeah it usually boils down to keeping you comfortable with your language of choice, and quick thinking, other than that feels mostly trivial
PatrickMcGinnisII: I enjoy the contests, and I do the puzzles in between. I've done 100% of the easy ones
Gorbit99: coc is definitely just like a puzzle, contributions are kept easy enough to do in 5 to 10 minutes
Gorbit99: it's advertised as giving you a 5 minute break inbetween whatever you're doing
Gorbit99: of course, the best part is either actually contributing and coming up with your own challenges or competitions
PatrickMcGinnisII: The CP you get from COC goes away, so unless you are doing 100 a day...I don't see much of a point.
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, contributions...yup i guess so. I haven't done any, but I do up/down vote a bunch as they come up
StarShip: definitely a nice break from other platforms like leetcode lol
Gorbit99: coc rankings don't go down as quickly as you would think
Gorbit99: I usually get back in every 2 months or so, grind it to 8th to 10th, and leave it like that for the next 2 months
Gorbit99: and when I come back I tend to be around the 80th place, with only 10 clashes necessary to get me back to a similar standing
Allis: I think the decay doesn't even start if you do one a day, no?
PatrickMcGinnisII: my preferred lang. isn't really coc friendly...the ruby/python have an advantage
Gorbit99: Allis I had days, where I just checked my ranking and it stayed where it was for like a week
PatrickMcGinnisII: CG is making me play it so I can get the easy XP from the quests
PatrickMcGinnisII: smh
Gorbit99: well, that's easily solvable, once you have them done :P
Gorbit99: the most difficult coc quests are definitely the last 3
PatrickMcGinnisII: current quest is 50 clashes..I've done 19 ... and i suck
Gorbit99: doesn't matter
Gorbit99: I definitely sucked, if not even more, when I was at 19
PatrickMcGinnisII: the code golf quests are impossible in php
Gorbit99: it's not even about winning at that point, it's about getting to know your language
Gorbit99: I learned what I know in ruby basically entirely on this site
PatrickMcGinnisII: I don't like sloppy code, I have a tendancy to not use optimal methods when I'm in a hurry and I don't evaluate error_logs and such.
Gorbit99: well, then coc isn't for you
Gorbit99: it's about sloppy hacks
PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, coc isn't for me. I can do it, but I like testing my code more
PatrickMcGinnisII: crap, hungry..gotta cook. glhf.
kokuou: no, you'll automatically get credit once the round is over
