KiwiTae: struct yeah its anoying >,< we had to postpone release to optimise performance on nintendo switch
KiwiTae: MadKnight i will have a free copy i hope ~
cegprakash: I just thought of a way to find mine probability in OOC
cegprakash: say if opponent places a mine in a particular turn and I guess he can be at 10 positions at that instant, then he can place mine in 4 directions from each of it's positions i.e. probaility of placing mine in all these 40 positions will be 1/40
cegprakash: I can use this probability to decide whether to be scared of this location or not
eulerscheZahl: cegprakash you can't make me play topcoder and then not compete yourself
cegprakash: I did
cegprakash: it's not updated in website yet
cegprakash: oh wait it's updated
eulerscheZahl: https://www.topcoder.com/challenges/30122730?tab=submissions
this contest?
cegprakash: https://www.topcoder.com/members/cegprakash/details/?track=DATA_SCIENCE&subTrack=SRM
cegprakash: I have never took part in Marathon
cegprakash: I don't know the marathon event format
cegprakash: never tried
eulerscheZahl: wow, a lot of participations
cegprakash: I only do SRMs
eulerscheZahl: what's the thing you are competing at?
eulerscheZahl: what's SRM?
cegprakash: algorithm contest
cegprakash: single round match
eulerscheZahl: ah, like codejam/codeforces
cegprakash: yes
eulerscheZahl: i rarely do those
cegprakash: can u teach me marathon
cegprakash: how to compete
eulerscheZahl: you register and then submit your code
cegprakash: is it possible to practice
cegprakash: like now
cegprakash: i logged into the applet
eulerscheZahl: just do it. participation is the best practice
eulerscheZahl: i'm using the website
cegprakash: did u register for TCO
eulerscheZahl: no
eulerscheZahl: i'm completely lost on their website
cegprakash: https://tco20.topcoder.com/
cegprakash: go into regional events
eulerscheZahl: bookmarked the marathon section
cegprakash: actually u can also login into topcoder arena and register
cegprakash: active contests -> register
eulerscheZahl: that algo track isn't really my cup of tea
cegprakash: you know petr, tourist and all?
cegprakash: they are world toppers
eulerscheZahl: and using the website already is the first challenge
eulerscheZahl: of course i know who they are
cegprakash: there is TCO for marathon too
cegprakash: I'll be competing in southern asia regionals this year
cegprakash: how do I submit code for that Rotating numbers challenge
cegprakash: where is the submit button?
cegprakash: eulerscheZahl
cegprakash: okay found it
eulerscheZahl: exactly: hard to find anything
eulerscheZahl: now you will get 4 emails
eulerscheZahl: we received your submission
eulerscheZahl: you passed the virus test
eulerscheZahl: you have a score of 1 until we processed your submit
eulerscheZahl: and your final score is ...
eulerscheZahl: https://prnt.sc/s61tsl
eulerscheZahl: and now we are first as that's our virus test result and not the actual score :D
cegprakash: there should be a folder inside the zip?
cegprakash: I mistakenly uploaded the zip with the file directly
eulerscheZahl: that's fine
eulerscheZahl: and the filename has to be exactly as given in the example submission
eulerscheZahl: there's a test submission for each language
eulerscheZahl: and don't use cerr
cegprakash: "Please Note: Please zip only the file. Do not put it inside a folder before zipping, you should directly zip the file."
cegprakash: how do I run this
cegprakash: java -jar tester.jar -exec "<command>" -seed <seed>
cegprakash: what is that command and seed
cegprakash: oh i need to generate an exe
cegprakash: how do I generate an exe ;O
cegprakash: he time limit is 10 seconds per test cas
cegprakash: woah
cegprakash: time to do simu
cegprakash: :D
eulerscheZahl: was afk for breakfast, did you solve your compilation problem?
cegprakash: no I was helping WINWINWIN
cegprakash: for CSB
cegprakash: for his eval
cegprakash: yes
cegprakash: I was able to run local tester
cegprakash: my exe file generated in debug folder
cegprakash: so I use that to test
POSEnough: does anyone has text about MPI programming?
AntiSquid: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=mpi+programming
eulerscheZahl: 2h to get a link to google. i know a faster way to use a search engine
Crypticsy: are you guys free enough to give a peek to my 5 min contribution?
https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/4995b17dc015ab22ad07ed6ddaaa3551544e
AntiSquid: nope
aCat: honest but brutal ;p
eulerscheZahl: no, the honest answer is "i have time but i don't want to"
Nerchio: the honest answer is i can do it in 3 mins but my lvl is 11 so whats the point
Nerchio: can't approve or disaprove below 20 :D
JBM: free peek needs no level
Crypticsy: *slowly crawls back to the den*
aCat: ^^'
Nerchio: gold boss in ghost in the cell :( so strong
YurkovAS: AntiSquid do you use dfs in evaluation for tron battle multi?
MSmits: I doubt that YurkovAS
MSmits: mostly it will be some form of minimax with floodfill I think
MSmits: but I am not high ranked on tron, so someone may correct me
MSmits: btw, Onitama has huge rps effects
MSmits: I already found a version of my bot that beats karlis o. But it's less good vs darkhorse
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/60afee38-88ab-4b3a-9b0a-aca82acd710f
MSmits: that 1 crash was Jacek... probably his assumption pass doesn't happen :P
jacek: my crash?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: well it's the 1 crash in the cg bench and it's you who did it, but may be a fluke timeout. Server hiccups
MSmits: It's really just like oware... small tweaks in the eval makes my bot very strong vs 1 player and weak vs another player. Last night I had 1 version that chain-lost vs Renard, but not vs anyone else
MSmits: I can probably pick a player and make him nr 1 or 2 if i start recording which version beats whom
dbdr: Illedan, was any boss harmed in the making of your promotion?
MSmits: where did he promote?
dbdr: Tulips and daisies
MSmits: oh cool
MSmits: how do you write a search for that game?
MSmits: seems hard to do
MSmits: so many choices
jacek: dutch should know something about tulips
MSmits: not this one :)
dbdr: lol
dbdr: not yet
dbdr: still investigating it
MSmits: did you do langtons ant dbdr?
dbdr: so far it seems minimax is on top
MSmits: it has similar branching
dbdr: MSmits not yet
MSmits: I was able to make mcts work for langtons, but only because there was a very clear/logical pruning rule available
dbdr: and EricSMSO mentioned his MCTS on Tulips was weak, but that it might have been an implementation issue
MSmits: Some pruning rules are obvious with tulips and daisies, but I don't see enough of them to reduce the branching to a manageable level
dbdr: what pruning would be obvious to you?
dbdr: apart from planting on yourself :)
MSmits: place your flower within a certain distance of other flowers
MSmits: dont just go in the middle of nowhere
MSmits: or if you do, do it by heuristic
dbdr: I think soon that will be everywhere
MSmits: yes, thats why i said its not enough :)
dbdr: if certain distance is not too small
dbdr: right
dbdr: in some ways it reminds me of go
MSmits: yeah
dbdr: though I know little about go
MSmits: which means mcts could work
dbdr: and in go it even makes sense to play far from the rest of the pieces
dbdr: IIUC
MSmits: hm ok
dbdr: to start influencing that territory
MSmits: well this sort of question will answer itself when better bots get submitted
dbdr: yes
MSmits: I'm not particularly drawn to the game
MSmits: but will visit it eventually I think
dbdr: visual style or the rules?
MSmits: rules, visual doesnt matter much to me
MSmits: though if it's good it's a nice bonus
MSmits: I like games with less branching
MSmits: do some deep searching
MSmits: in T&D it's all about eval, since you can forget about depth
dbdr: it's a different challenge definitely
dbdr: but good that we have games that differ in this fundamental way
MSmits: yeah
dbdr: so that we can learn better to deal with various situations
MSmits: once I am done with my AI assignment, I will continue to work on STC
dbdr: what approaches work or not
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: my knowledge is mostly lacking in optimization games
dbdr: single player optim?
MSmits: yes
MSmits: stuff you can't treesearch
dbdr: that's definitely a different category again :)
dbdr: it's still a tree
dbdr: you just don't have an opponent
MSmits: sometimes it isn't a tree
MSmits: well
MSmits: say like number shifting
MSmits: or travelling salesman
MSmits: you mutate a solution
MSmits: that's completely different
dbdr: you can still see it as a tree
MSmits: it's a sequence of moves
jacek: everything can be tree if youre brave enough
AntiSquid: what about puzzles MSmits ?
MSmits: but sure at every move you considered other moves and they're all part of the tree
dbdr: a sequence of moves is one path in the tree :)
MSmits: what kind of puzzles AntiSquid
AntiSquid: sometimes i go out in the garden barefoot, step on the grass, stretch my hands out and pretend i am a tree jacek
MSmits: I can solve puzzles ok. I solved pikachu in less than 4 hrs at least
dbdr: graphs is even more general, e.g. if you consider transpositions your tree becomes a graph
MSmits: a tree is a onedirectional graph isnt it?
dbdr: a directed graph with no cycles
MSmits: oh wait no, you can have multiple paths ot the same node
MSmits: with a one directional graph
MSmits: yeah i suppose a minimax with TT is like that
dbdr: two states can have the same child
jacek: its called ADG
MSmits: acyclic directional graph
dbdr: I know it as DAG :D
jacek: DAG* -.-
AntiSquid: diagonally aligned graph
MSmits: thats what Dutch people say when they leave
MSmits: it's like bye
AntiSquid: (bye) da(w)g
makes sense
MSmits: :)
Astrobytes: Isn't it like saying "good day"?
AntiSquid: the very hard puzzlys MSmits
MSmits: probably closer in meaning yes, but it's used when people leave mostly
MSmits: AntiSquid I didn't try many, but that's mostly because I like multis
Astrobytes: Good day is a greeting or a parting phrase
AntiSquid: ya multis are more fun
MSmits: Astrobytes true
AntiSquid: multis are like very hard puzzles but you only do as much as you like of the puzzle
MSmits: mmh it says i completed 3 very hard but I doubt they are really very hard
dbdr: like very hard puzzles that you can never fully solve :)
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/the-water-jug-riddle-from-die-hard-3
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/unflood-the-world
AntiSquid: disagree dbdr
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/bulls-and-cows
MSmits: those are the ones I completed. They all seem medium at most...
dbdr: I would count only official CG ones as very hard
AntiSquid: at least bandas and oware got to be fully solvable with NN
MSmits: oware is not fully solvable the way it's coded on CG because of loops
MSmits: there are rules that deal with this in other versions of the game. Then it would be solvable
AntiSquid: how many ML experts are there on CG?
AntiSquid: 0
AntiSquid: afaik
dbdr: right, simpler multis might be at the edge of solvability
dbdr: but you might be able to solve them offline and not be able to fit the solution in 100K
MSmits: solving has a pretty precise meaning though, if you say a NN can solve a game, it still has to consider all opponent choices
MSmits: so you can write a perfect NN and it may still be out of reach
dbdr: yes, NN is a function approximator
dbdr: if you have a perfect solution, there is probably a more compact representation for it
AntiSquid: if nobody can top it it's solved imo
dbdr: if nobody can EVER top it
MSmits: yes, thats the thing
MSmits: you never know
dbdr: well, you do if it's actually solved
AntiSquid: well if nobody can reach higher accuracy then it's good enough ... sort of like the TGD puzzle i guess
dbdr: like checkers
MSmits: AntiSquid but how do you know noone can?
dbdr: TGD was not solved
dbdr: once you take a decimals into account
MSmits: just because noone has, doesnt mean noone can
AntiSquid: but nobody was reaching higher accuracy after a while
MSmits: what if it happens after 20 years
dbdr: one player had better score than everyone else
Nagatwin: I tried to solve it fully with NNs
dbdr: so max one player solved it, probably no one
Nagatwin: but failed
AntiSquid: is CG still around in 20 years?
Nagatwin: Oware ^
AntiSquid: maybe it is but who knows
MSmits: I beat the NN's after obsessive eval experimentation
dbdr: in checkers, we know. there is a proof / complete search
MSmits: yeah
dbdr: this is a cool story actually
MSmits: oware has a proof for the version with slightly different rules
dbdr: this one guy was so much above the rest, then he died before finishing a match against a strong AI
AntiSquid: i don't get "Breach"
dbdr: the Ai devs thought the only way to give him respect before saying they would have beaten him was to beat God
dbdr: e.g. prove perfect play
dbdr: and they spent like a decade doing that
MSmits: ah yes
MSmits: was this Tinsley?
MSmits: or something?
dbdr: Marion Tinsley, yes
MSmits: I also remember reading he wanted to play the best AI in an official championship and the organization refused
MSmits: then he refused to participate in the championship
dbdr: World Champion 1955–1958
1975–1991
MSmits: so they had to invent a new championship to accomodate him
MSmits: otherwise it would be worthless
MSmits: without him in it
dbdr: In August 1992, he defeated the Chinook computer program <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_(draughts_player)> 4–2 (with 33 draws)
AntiSquid: i want to see Dota bots that actually win with all heroes available
dbdr: wow, so many draws
MSmits: near perfect play :)
dbdr: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/69d268f0-c2ef-4fa2-a0ba-542f9cab2539
MSmits: hehe yes, i remember reading that too
MSmits: it is quite interesting
Astrobytes: Impressive
AntiSquid: so like Magnus Carlsen sort of
MSmits: I think no other sport has a marion tinsley
MSmits: not the same
AntiSquid: but if you do only 1 thing your entire life you should be better than the rest no? :p
MSmits: yes, but even then, this was extreme
AntiSquid: well it's not the same "sport", but it's comparable
MSmits: no i mean
MSmits: the difference between marion and anyone else
dbdr: I'm sure other people tried very hard too
AntiSquid: you pile up magnus with anyone else MSmits
MSmits: no other game/sport has this difference between nr 1 and the rest
dbdr: by the way have you guys seen the movie about alpha go?
dbdr: not very technical, mostly the human side of the story
AntiSquid: classical chess world champions:
Magnus Carlsen (2013-current)
dbdr: the research team and the human players
Astrobytes: Any good?
dbdr: I enjoyed it
Astrobytes: Seems worth a watch
AntiSquid: MSmits https://youtu.be/H0n69pDaUaY?t=94
dbdr: EricSMSO got 40 at Tulips :)
dbdr: 40.5
EricSMSO: Thanks to Illedan, I found a weakness in my evaluation function
Astrobytes: Nice!
dbdr: won 77/80 :)
Astrobytes: Well played
EricSMSO: Thank you.
EricSMSO: dbdr. I think MSmits is right. If you restrict to neighbourhood, MCTS should work. Mine was bad because I played complete random
dbdr: neighbourhood will soon be the whole board no?
MSmits: sorry was afk a sec
MSmits: cool EricSMSO
MSmits: will try it at some point
EricSMSO: You won't play were your flowers are already
dbdr: sure, but next to yours + next to opponent + on opponent, that's mostly everywhere
EricSMSO: True, that's why I rarely reach depth 4
MSmits: AntiSquid nice trick with the blindfold. Seen fellow students do this (with only one game and playing more poorly)
MSmits: it's really cool to see. These two guys who just sit on lunch breaks and say chess moves. We werent even sure they were playing until someone brought a board
AntiSquid: idk what you mean trick
MSmits: well the blindfold doesn't prove you're a good player, it proves you have good memory. Obviously he is also a good player
AntiSquid: honestly look up carlsen, quite interesting
MSmits: hey I believe you
AntiSquid: it's nothing to do with belief
AntiSquid: it's more about knowing the individual
MSmits: allright
eulerscheZahl: MSmits :D
https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/454977165
eulerscheZahl: i like how you announce your victory
dbdr: RIP
MSmits: yeah i am testing new versions with bugs :)
eulerscheZahl: testing in production
MSmits: yes :)
eulerscheZahl: meanwhile i try to win $0 but all the spinning makes me dizzy
MSmits: huh
eulerscheZahl: https://www.topcoder.com/challenges/30122730?tab=details
there, you can win $0
MSmits: ahh I see
MSmits: think I found the bug
MSmits: if (moveBits[playerIndex] & (masterBitPos[opponent]) && !lastTurn)
MSmits: typical bit op bug
MSmits: can you spot it?
jacek: no parenthesis?
MSmits: no there's parenteses
MSmits: but they are placed wrong
jacek: thats what i meant
MSmits: yea.. hard to spot this
MSmits: & has such a weak priority
MSmits: always gets me into trouble
MSmits: mmh still bugged I think
jacek: good, keep pushing me up
MSmits: will try :)
MSmits: I get this a lot:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/454986257
MSmits: solve on frame 18/35 as a loss
MSmits: then, it gets "unlost" because he chooses a different path than the one I solved as a win for him
MSmits: then I lose again :p
jacek: hes teasing you
MSmits: maybe :)
MSmits: this is what is cool about mcts solver though. Under the right conditions it solves much better than minimax
dbdr: how so?
dbdr: ah, you mean better if the opponent is imperfect?
MSmits: because sometimes statistics guide you better
MSmits: it doesnt have to explore the entire tree (with or without ab pruning). Just the path that is seemingly best for the winning player
MSmits: i did say *under the right conditions*
MSmits: has a lot to do with exploration parameter and such
dbdr: well, that's one thing with minimax, it assumes perfect opponent
MSmits: but it gets crazy solves sometimes. I would see karlis o say he got to depth 11 and my bot solved at 15 or something
dbdr: so it can make you lose against weak players when you could have won
dbdr: because they make a mistake
MSmits: mcts might do that too
MSmits: but it's different
dbdr: yes, but MCTS will have stats
MSmits: yeah
dbdr: once in a while the opponent will play badly
dbdr: in minimax never
MSmits: true
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/454987603
dbdr: minimax does no distinguish lose in 1 turn and lose in 60 turns
MSmits: look at the replay. I solve it as a loss for me 15 frames before the end
MSmits: karlis o says d:8
MSmits: I wondered if this is maybe due to his definition of a depth being 2 plies, but if you continue the game, he keeps using max calc time
dbdr: what is d /
dbdr: ?
dbdr: ah, depth?
MSmits: I think so
jacek: what if he puts random value there
MSmits: of course that is possible
dbdr: looks consistent with depth
dbdr: not knowing the game :)
dbdr: gets a bit higher need the end
dbdr: near
karliso: MSmits I limit my depth to 11...
MSmits: oh
dbdr: grats on promotion Quidome!
MSmits: karliso why to 11?
karliso: No particular reason
dbdr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven
karliso: Do you thnk MCTs is going to be better?
MSmits: I don't know
MSmits: the reason I use mcts is that I suck with minimax
karliso: Was my first minimax... I find mcts more intuitive.
MSmits: this game has strong rock paper scissors. I found several versions that have higher than 50% winrate vs you, but then darkhorse beats me
MSmits: or someone else
karliso: You tested with -s parameter?
MSmits: whats that?
karliso: Ahh, I meant you play position from both isdes?
MSmits: oh yes, swap and random seed
karliso: Ok, perhaps my endgames are not so good.
MSmits: this happened with me on oware too
MSmits: I could make versions that beat re curse and robo, but only won 60-70% vs the rest
MSmits: then i submitted it a few times and was nr 1
MSmits: then other people submitted and i would lose it
MSmits: karliso your bot is fine
MSmits: hard to beat
MSmits: it stays on top when other people submit too, so I wouldnt worry. But you can try mcts if you want
karliso: I am no gona try mcts in onitama, but I regret going with mcts in bandas.
MSmits: why?
MSmits: mcts seems fine in bandas
MSmits: do remember that nagrarok uses an endgame book
MSmits: not sure if you do
MSmits: but that's a major boost
karliso: It feels to me like it has decent eval + mcts spend a lot of time in big depths + there are some forced lines.
MSmits: then use mcts with eval
MSmits: make your mcts more like minimax :)
ALIM: Could anyone help me with an easy puzzle please?? I need some help ta disordered first contact on how to decode the message.
karliso: What do you propogate?
karliso: No, I don't use endgame tables in bandas. I am also only 51% vs nagrarok.
JBM: isn't the format code given in the statement?
MSmits: karliso you propagate the eval
MSmits: just make sure it is properly normalized
MSmits: for example between 0 and 1, or some other value
ALIM: in the statement there is only the encoding, not the decoding
karliso: Hmm, interesting. I use ints = 0 as loss, 1 = draw, and 2 = win in my mcts.
MSmits: thats fine. I use 1, -1 and 0
MSmits: doesn't really matter
MSmits: ohhh
MSmits: I had a bug where my knight blocked my master from reaching shrine
MSmits: I simply checked all master moves and if the shrine is in there I count it as a win
MSmits: but if the knight is in the way...
Adnmaster: is there any way to find our own location in code royale?
MSmits: it is not given as input?
Adnmaster: only the location of the sites are given
MSmits: mmh there are two types of input, initial input and input per turn
MSmits: are you sure the position is not in the per turn input?
Adnmaster: i tried x y but i later found out that it wont go in the direction i want
MSmits: not sure what you mean. We're talking about input here right, not output?
Adnmaster: i mean, it says x and y is the sites value, and when i make it output, it does return as a sites value
Adnmaster: so it is a sites value
Adnmaster: and it would be much better if we could move our character as we want
MSmits: you can
Adnmaster: how
MSmits: let me open code royale, sec
Adnmaster: ok
MSmits: been 2 years :)
Adnmaster: :D
MSmits: which league are you in?
Adnmaster: wood 3 i think
Adnmaster: wait
Adnmaster: let me look
MSmits: ahh, maybe wood 3 doesnt allow free x y movement
Adnmaster: oh
Adnmaster: might be
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/1f6041d2-504f-49e4-9e20-e8f1327450d2
MSmits: thats output for legend league
MSmits: bronze, silver, gold shoul dbe the same
MSmits: wood might be different
darkhorse64: MOVE x y to move the quuen
Adnmaster: what is the input in those leagues?
MSmits: but really, if you want to get out of wood, just build barracks and make kngihts
Adnmaster: yeah
Adnmaster: youre right
MSmits: input is pretty big for legend, not usre if it will be readable
Adnmaster: ok
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4db93372-b2f6-4132-8f5f-e53f432648ef
dbdr: normally input does not change
dbdr: some things are just unused
**dbdr looks sternly at CSB
JBM: legacy
dbdr: CSB legacy, nice title
IAmNoob: HI!
MSmits: hi noob
IAmNoob: :)
wlesavo: hi i am noob
IAmNoob: :)
MSmits: wow darkhorse64
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/455007253
MSmits: look when it was solved (according to my maybe bugged bot)
Quidome: funny i have been pushed into wood 1 and into position 4 with tulips
Quidome: :joy:
MSmits: nice
Quidome: well with a crappy solution, but still funny
Quidome: Top Rust player :muscle:
Quidome: :sunglasses:
Quidome: Eric has taken over first place big time
Quidome: 6 points difference!
MSmits: nice
darkhorse64: Strange, my eval goes beyond 1
MSmits: he does that sometimes :)
MSmits: err
MSmits: in the game i shared darkhorse64?
darkhorse64: Yes
MSmits: I think it's funny my bot keeps seeing a path for you to win and you keep refusing to take it :)
MSmits: maybe I should post your winning move
IAmNoob: :)
darkhorse64: You mean I should have won it much earlier
darkhorse64: ?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: unless you expect my bot to look 80 turns ahead
darkhorse64: You always surpass my expectations
MSmits: that can mean two things
MSmits: either your expectations are very low or I do very well :P
darkhorse64: Choose whatever suits you better
MSmits: are you pulling down karlis o?
MSmits: he only has 39.01 now
MSmits: almost seems like you're benching him
MSmits: hmm yes you won 5 out of 9 on last submit
darkhorse64: I have a few wins. I am tweaking my exploration parameter
MSmits: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-onitama/darkhorse64
MSmits: weird stats
MSmits: you win more vs top 2
MSmits: this is oware all over again
MSmits: oops i forgot to put in an exploration parameter. I guess it is 1
darkhorse64: Indeed. I should look into the bug before continuing. If my stats are wrong, I am in trouble
MSmits: I might have bugs too, still. I really did a number on myself with this state representation
Quidome: What is the most active multi at the moment?
darkhorse64: Non deterministic bot = plague
Quidome: Can i see that somewhere?
MSmits: darkhorse64 agreed
dbdr: Quidome: https://cgmulti.azke.fr/statistics
eulerscheZahl: https://cgmulti.azke.fr/statistics
eulerscheZahl: :rage:
MSmits: lurker!
darkhorse64: Judging by the chat, Tulips and Daisies
Quidome: thnxs
MSmits: that toad is always lurking
eulerscheZahl: nah
eulerscheZahl: getting frustrated with that optim game
dbdr: eulerscheZahl: at this point it's getting funny :D
MSmits: oh the one for $0 ?
eulerscheZahl: yes
dbdr: you writing half a second later
eulerscheZahl: not the first time
dbdr: unfortunately it seems cgmulti does not get the list of multis dynamically :(
eulerscheZahl: correct
eulerscheZahl: would be interesting to compare OOC with UTG
eulerscheZahl: to see how much the fast release helped
dbdr: indeed
dbdr: I think the data is somewhere in https://github.com/dbdr/codingame-leaderboards :)
eulerscheZahl: so, let's watch the wine poisoning you recommended yesterday
dbdr: I mean can be computed
eulerscheZahl: fairly simple to get these stats actually
eulerscheZahl: but i'm not in a mood
dbdr: ah, with date of last submit?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: just to see who submitted after the relaunch
dbdr: I'm #5 :o
dbdr: and ValGrowth #1
Illedan: Power of spam!
dbdr: whose spam? :)
Illedan: no idea, just guessing :P
dbdr: agenti ds are different between contest and multi even with no new code :(
dbdr: but I think we can use the contest agent ids in the multi, right?
Illedan: ye
l0524: Could someone help me and tell me where I can find my completed? I need to send this to my professor, however I can't find it
JBM: you won't find your completed unless you it first
Astrobytes: :smirk:
l0524: unless I what first?
JBM: your what completed?
karliso: MSmits Results make some sense. mcts might be better than minimax, but good minimax is better at beating weaker minimaxes.
l0524: completed puzzles form "practice" section
MSmits: karliso sure, that's possible
l0524: apologies, I'm new here
JBM: they're the ones with a check mark next to them
MSmits: darkhorse64, 1 more time :P
JBM: you can find your stuff either in the solutions tab from a puzzle, or in the history section in the ide
l0524: ah, thank u
MSmits: thanks darkhorse64 :)
MSmits: I would say this is the perfect value for your exploration parameter :P
MSmits: aww kicked to 2 again
darkhorse64: 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, ...
MSmits: this sort of parameter i prefer to test with selfplay
MSmits: doesnt seem likely there is much overtraining
MSmits: or just test vs 1 opponent
darkhorse64: Your solver is better than mine, you sometimes predict the issue 4 ply before me. Might be due to speed or a bug in my solver
Floor: Would you consider searching how to do different statements / functions etc when doing a Practice challenge "Cheating"
MSmits: darkhorse64 i dont have simulations
MSmits: so more rollouts
Floor: and I don't mean ripping the code from someones Github that they've posted
JBM: no
MSmits: Floor there are many standard algorithms, many puzzles just test if you know them
MSmits: its fine for learning
MSmits: google away
Floor: Yeah I understand the algorithms in pseudo code, just didn't know if I was cheating myself by searching different ways to do them in my desired language on Google.
MSmits: nah
MSmits: every puzzle is different, you still need to apply it to the situation
darkhorse64: I have 3 M "short" rollouts first turn
MSmits: especially with more complex puzzles. This will require you adapt existing algorithms
MSmits: let me see
eulerscheZahl: short? you limit the depth?
darkhorse64: Yes
eulerscheZahl: to what? that's relevant for comparing numbers ;)
darkhorse64: depth 1 then eval
MSmits: I get up to 800k rollouts with which I evaluate about 9 million nodes max
MSmits: but no random sim
MSmits: so i just expand and evaluate each child
darkhorse64: First turn or next turns
darkhorse64: ?
MSmits: first
MSmits: mmh it differs a lot per game
MSmits: i just see a game with 600k rollouts and 10 million root visits (10 Mnodes evaluated)
MSmits: it depends on the cards a lot
MSmits: second turn for this game was 32k rollouts and about half a million nodes evaluated
darkhorse64: Our figures are too different. Either you are slow or my stats are botched
MSmits: your rollout is defined differently
MSmits: your 3 million corresponds best to my 9 million
MSmits: because when you expand you count each child as a rollout
darkhorse64: True
MSmits: i count 1 expansion as 1 rollout
MSmits: i evaluate each child immediately after that without doing randoms
MSmits: we had that difference in oware also
MSmits: I've found that as your eval gets better, my way becomes better, but with worse eval, your way is
MSmits: worse eval needs to be offset with randomness
MSmits: thats why total randomness is so necessary in uttt, no good eval
darkhorse64: I should also check depth 0, "worse eval needs to be offset with randomness" is an interesting conclusion that you do not find in the litterature
MSmits: well i found this experimentally with oware
MSmits: at first my best was depth 5
MSmits: then depth 4
MSmits: then 1 and when the eval got best, it became 0
MSmits: i refitted it a lot, so i could really track how the ideal depth changed
darkhorse64: Find the same with Onitama but i can't remember if I tested depth 0
MSmits: I just never even tried random rollouts. It's a lot of work to code
MSmits: also they might be a bit expensive
darkhorse64: I did. It was way worse
dbdr: seems intuitive to me. a perfect eval would be better than random moves
MSmits: no i meant random rollouts to depth x, i didnt code that for onitama
MSmits: total random would definitely be bad here
darkhorse64: You are #1 again until my next submit
MSmits: hehe ok
MarcoSP:
How can I send a private message to someone who is not in this chat?
MSmits: my winrate vs karlis o is about 40% btw
darkhorse64: Take a scrrenshot
MSmits: I still have 4 ideas to test though
MSmits: got constant = 0 for them,
MSmits: already coded. Fitting takes too long :P
darkhorse64: 1.25 or 2.0 exploration parameter makes hardly any difference
MSmits: hmm doesn't surprise me that much. It often has a large plateau
MSmits: just take the center of it i'd say
jacek: you try each child before going further?
MSmits: what do you mean?
darkhorse64: Currently testing
MSmits: you mean on selection jacek? I visit each child at least once before I move deeper yes
jacek: yes
MSmits: actually, I count the eval as the first visit
MSmits: so they are immediately all visited once
MSmits: so maybe the answer is no?
MSmits: not sure..
MSmits: btw, you can pull me down far with a chain submit jacek
MSmits: but thats temporary
MSmits: versions vary wildly
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/73c06093-9dfa-4c3d-8407-c7f383f550f1
MSmits: current version is very weak to you
MSmits: I'm getting a baseline test now so I can try what happens if I test the other ideas
jacek: well i mean in selection phase, UCT is infinity
MSmits: oh, on expansion, all my child nodes get evaluated, that;s their score and their visitcount is set to 1
jacek: so if there is an unexpleored child, youll visit it first. unless you use some eval or FPU to ignore those
MSmits: so i never encounter this situation
jacek: oh
MSmits: the combined evaluation gets backpropagatedf
MSmits: except on win/loss of course, then it's just 1 or -1
MSmits: (eval is between -1 and 1)
jacek: how complicated is your eval :thinking:
MSmits: current is fairly simple, but it's about to double in complexity.
Adnmaster: in code royale, sometimes you can be born as blue. But when i am born as blue, errors on my code occur. Anyone know how to fix that?
MSmits: check whats different about being blue, see how your code handles that
jacek: or maybe i should focus on speed? karliso is always 1-2 plies deeper than me
MSmits: probably the starting coordinate
MSmits: hmm
MSmits: what enhancements did you use
MSmits: ab pruning i assume
MSmits: also TT?
MSmits: for mcts, TT was no success for me
Adnmaster: for example, i coded it to build two barracks then attack, but when im blue it only builds one than attacks
MSmits: but minimax is different
MSmits: karlis o hasnt done minimax before.
jacek: TT and some mover ordering
MSmits: which is a bit annoying :P He also hadnt done uttt before when he got nr 1
MSmits: done mcts before I mean
MSmits: ah ok, seems ok jacek
MSmits: but you will get deeper with better eval maybe
MSmits: ab pruning works better when scores vary more i think
MSmits: for mcts it was definitely like this. If my eval is better, my bot solves deeper
jacek: oh and also killer moves
MSmits: yeah thats all quite normal
MSmits: you can also do a quick check at the end to maybe eval 1 layer deeper
MSmits: to see if the opponent has a finishing move
darkhorse64: killer move is a move that causes a cut in ab ?
MSmits: I think you save 1 or 2 moves at each depth
MSmits: that caused cutoff I thought
MSmits: you check those first
jacek: yes. you save move (or 2) for each ply that cuased cutoff and later try it first if available
darkhorse64: You can also use quiescence search when capturing or being captured. Thanks for definition
karliso: Yeah, I use PVS for onitama. I have no intuition for how it works, but it seemed somewhat faster than ab pruning.
MSmits: thats nega scout?
MSmits: also, it is cool that you share this karliso, thanks
jacek: pvs/negascout gave me neglibile profit
karliso: Yes, I don't know how it works, but it does work.
jacek: this is typical for recursive few-liners
MSmits: jacek did you somehow take into account the fact that this game has a lot of very short branches with a quick win? I have no idea how this would factor into your minimax, but it might make things different
MSmits: other games dont have this as much
MSmits: it's comparable to yavalath in this regard, but with a lot less brancing
jacek: iterative deepening should take care of that
MSmits: I wonder how expensive iterative deepening gets when you have almost no branching
jacek: still worth it
MSmits: yeah I guess it is
MSmits: also, depth might have a +1 or -1 in the definition
MSmits: you might define it to be smaller
MSmits: not by more than 1, but still
MSmits: you could call your first move the depth 0 move and say your depth is 0 or you could say you've done 1 move and your depth is now 1
MSmits: anyways, thats the sum of my knowledge on minimax. You do exactly the same thing as what I do when I try minimax and it's always worse than my mcts :(
jacek: coclustion - your mcts is just very good
MSmits: it's good, but it's also different every time. I practiced it a lot
MSmits: I should practice minimax more, but I lack motivation
MSmits: maybe if someone explained to me a proper eval for tron :0
darkhorse64: Maybe for the next challenge, if it's really a pacman variation ?
MSmits: maybe yeah
MSmits: you need to practice it too dont you?
MSmits: you're always doing mcts
darkhorse64: I have google mcts pacman and it returned something
MSmits: "Did you mean mrs. pacman?"
darkhorse64: I am quite in the same situation: heavy mcts practitioner
darkhorse64: "mcts pacman"
MSmits: hehe nvm, mrs pacman is a game
darkhorse64: Heard of it
MSmits: I suspect the game will be very different from pacman. Will just have some kind of grid with walls and such, but other than that, no similarities
MSmits: I think it's mostly a theme
MSmits: anyway, off to the store, need to get some food and :rage: at people for getting near me
darkhorse64: Take care
jacek: you mean those getting closer score to you?
MSmits: no, there's this thing called corona :P
MSmits: and some people are idiots
darkhorse64: Also but we do not fear retaliation
MSmits: :)
darkhorse64: Except getting even more rekt
struct: hi
AntiSquid: hi
Im_A_Rookie: hi
eulerscheZahl: hi
Uljahn: hi
Astrobytes: hi
tekki: hi
Kukiss: hi
jacek: c-c-combo breaker
Im_A_Rookie: im using python and some people who use c++ beat me
Im_A_Rookie: that is how noob i am
Im_A_Rookie: xD
Im_A_Rookie: Any tips on how to type faster?
eulerscheZahl: use both hands
Im_A_Rookie: smart
Im_A_Rookie: are you joking? xp
struct: in coc c++ stands no chance
struct: in fastest mode
coderinblack: Lol
jacek: what if you used optimization
Uljahn: ye, use autocomplete, ctrl+space
dbdr: coc -- what a strange game
the only winning move is not to play
AntiSquid: do something other than clash Im_A_Rookie
Astrobytes: And get an anime avatar
Im_A_Rookie: Okay
Im_A_Rookie: to be honest i hate this ide you have to write all the code on your own normally it does it automatically
Im_A_Rookie: ctrl + space
Im_A_Rookie: nice
AntiSquid: you could try to use CG sync
WINWINWIN: In code vs Zombies, what if a zombie is equidistant from 2 humans?
Nerchio: legend run in ghost in the cell? lets goo
EricSMSO: WINWINWIN It will probably go towards the human with the lowest ID
cegprakash: WINWINWIN how is ur CSB bot
cegprakash: legend yet?
AntiSquid: he is playing code vs zombies, why does CSB matter?
Nerchio:
Promotion to Legend League in :
01H 06MN 52SC
Astrobytes: grats Nerchio
Nerchio: my last submit ended ~65, i didnt change anything #1
Nerchio: it was similar in ooc gold
Nerchio: i need to learn how to deal with this randomness ;p
darkhorse64: Did you follow any PM or is it just your own algo ?
jacek: damm teapot stop spam submitting,i keep getting worse :\
Nerchio: my own algo or rather heuristic not much of an algo xD
darkhorse64: #3 is not enough. I want to rule the world
darkhorse64: Just gone from 34 to 37 by tweaking parameters
Nerchio: where you are #rd?
darkhorse64: Onitama
Nerchio: ah that one is too hard for me
hozayfeh: HI:raised_hand:
Nerchio: D:
MaciejF: Hi everyone! Could someone explain me one thing about mtcs?
AntiSquid: maybe
darkhorse64: go ahead
MSmits: thats how it starts
MSmits: 1 thing
AntiSquid: maybe that's all he wanted to know
Nerchio: MSmits is a teacher he can help im sure
Nerchio: :D
AntiSquid: if someone can explain stuff to him about mcts
MSmits: ohh
MaciejF: it really is one thing xD
Is node's value just wins / number_of_visits ?
MaciejF: what about loses?
MSmits: count a loss as -1
MSmits: and a win as +1
AntiSquid: Nerchio doubt it, he is supposed to teach physics, but plays bot programming instead :/
AntiSquid: all students fail
MSmits: :P
Nerchio: xD
Astrobytes: :joy:
Adnmaster: :joy:
darkhorse64: He teaches mcts to CG members
MSmits: sometimes :)
MaciejF: MSmits what if I told you that in UTTT my bot jumped about ~20 places when i switched from (wins - losses) / visits to just wins/visits
darkhorse64: You fixed a bug
MSmits: I'd say you are in silver or gold where everything is quite random
MSmits: and 20 places is basically the same rank
MaciejF: actually, yesterday I got into legend
darkhorse64: oops
MSmits: you jumped 20 places in legend?
MaciejF: yeah
Nerchio: take that msmits hahah!
MSmits: lol
MaciejF: And I just tried another evaluation that seems to give better results
MSmits: interesting, you just ignore losses?
MSmits: wait a minute
MSmits: you increase visit count when you ignore the win?
MaciejF: Yeah, but I didnt like it
MaciejF: yeah, I do that
MSmits: so you count a loss as a draw
MaciejF: exactly
MSmits: I am thinking you just lowered your margin
MSmits: the min-max score
MSmits: which means you could have just doubled your exploration parameter for the same effect
MSmits: draws rarely happen so
MSmits: your loss score is now 0
MSmits: and your win score is 1
MSmits: instead of -1 and 1
MaciejF: I think you are right. I have just tried another evaluation that incorporates losses and it gave me another boost:
(wins * (1 - losses/visits)) / visits
MaciejF: it's like weighting wins by losses
MaciejF: can't go negative so exploration part still has some effect
MSmits: i think you are overcomplicating things
MSmits: it doesnt matter if it goes negative
MSmits: if your loss score is -500 and your winscore is -498, you have the same bot as when your loss score is -1 and your win score is 1
MSmits: the difference is what matters
MSmits: the difference compared to the exploration parameter
MSmits: you are comparing different nodes to select one
MSmits: so if all nodes have a 499 lower score, the result of the selection formula will be the same. you select the same child
jacek: wait, how draws in uttt are rare? o.O
MSmits: rare as in 10% or so
MSmits: I am trying to explain why he got an improvement by ignoring losses
jacek: i already 'ignore' losses, as i have 0, 0.5 and 1.0 :)
MSmits: lol... thats not ignoring losses either
jacek: nyoro~n
MSmits: you can change that to -1, 0 and 1 and double the exploration parameter and you have the exact same bot
MSmits: only it's prettier :)
MSmits: cuz no broken results (0.5)
MSmits: can use integers
MaciejF: MSsmits so are you saying that I've just indirectly increased exploration parameter?
MSmits: did you just use another anime thingy jacek
MSmits: yes MaciejF
jacek: :eyes:
MSmits: the score range is half as small
MSmits: so exploration is relatively twice as strong
MSmits: you just needed more exploration is why your bot improved
Uljahn: i agree on exploration constant being the cause if it's vanilla mcts (no heavy rollouts or something)
MaciejF: Ok I think I understand :D Thank you! It's nice to get some explanation from 1st UTTT player!
MSmits: np :)
MSmits: afk 10-15 mins, drop me a pm if you have more questions
jacek: 1st UTTT? oh my
jacek: reCurse not gonna be happy
MSmits: he knows
MSmits: he's is 3rd
darkhorse64: UTTT is like Games Of Thrones. Heads roll
MSmits: and dont ping him jacek, you meanie
MSmits: brb
dbdr: I'm sure he's happy to be reminded he's not #1 anymore
Nerchio: lol
Illedan: Send him a PM just to be sure..
jacek: maybe i should invite to clash to cheer him up
AntiSquid: yes
AntiSquid: make a bot that automatically invites him jacek
AntiSquid: best birthday gift ever
AntiSquid: detective pika #3 isn't really a mobius strip is it? statement doesn't make any sense when compared to what i see in the replay
AntiSquid: and why does the replay not always work wtf?
BenjaminUrquhart: pika is a mess
BenjaminUrquhart: chang emy mind
AntiSquid: no, i agree
BenjaminUrquhart: and yes, it's not a mobius strip
AntiSquid: guess i need to read forums to figure shit out?
BenjaminUrquhart: literally ignore the statement and you'll be fine :eyes:
AntiSquid: done that in ooc :thinking:
AntiSquid: was reading chat instead of statement
MSmits: pika is a good puzzle except for the moebius. You can solve it by looking at the examples though, with some trial and error
MSmits: took me about an hour i think, the moebius one
MSmits: the cube thingy also an hour
AntiSquid: if it says moebius strip then that's what i expect, want and should get, otherwise it's a shit puzzle
MSmits: if it was just that, then yes. But it is 4 puzzles
AntiSquid: talking about #3, that's one puzzle
MSmits: the other 3 are fine
MSmits: ah ok, then i agree
AntiSquid: i just don't like puzzles where the statement is part of the problem
MSmits: same
AntiSquid: happens an awful lot on other sites
AntiSquid: difficult explanation or inaccurate details to misguide you
MSmits: we can edit statements thankfully
AntiSquid: would have to reupload contrib then
MSmits: really? I edited a puzzle once, dont think it reuploaded
AntiSquid: which i don't have lol, can't edit statement separately
MSmits: I edited this one:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/pirates-treasure
AntiSquid: i think it's because of the viewer?
MSmits: oh, that might be true yeah
eulerscheZahl: yeah, SDK contributions require a full upload
AntiSquid: ya it's different, you can edit statement separately with that one
eulerscheZahl: btw MSmits: langton's ant
MSmits: oh right
MSmits: i never got a response on my message
eulerscheZahl: oh
eulerscheZahl: let's vandalize
MSmits: let me find the message, so i know what the error was
MSmits: err where do i see messages i sent?
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/forum/u/MSmits/messages
eulerscheZahl: /sent
Astrobytes: M C has definitely been on since then, I mean he played OOC
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/92b03ef7-754b-4dd1-950a-78ad5300c529
eulerscheZahl: while checking my forum profile i just realized that the OOC postmortem is my most upvoted one
AntiSquid: time for a ninja fix!
eulerscheZahl: share images instead of meaningful insights i guess :P
eulerscheZahl: i'm surprised, the replay is still up
MSmits: the statistics were great
MSmits: yeah
AntiSquid: ya i upvoted for cool image
MSmits: eulerscheZahl do you think you can fix the ant thing? I am afraid to touch it
eulerscheZahl: ok, will do
MSmits: I am sure the bug is there though
eulerscheZahl: first create an own contrib for testing
MSmits: ah right
AntiSquid: only upvoted actual PMs instead of just random statements and opinions, and only PM i've actually read
AntiSquid: MSmits gonna wreck the contrib ?
MSmits: thats what i was afraid of yes :P
MSmits: the fact that it is someone else's work makes it worse
jacek: hm?
eulerscheZahl: it might resubmit the bosses when i upload it
MSmits: does that mean everyone gets promoted?
eulerscheZahl: possibly
eulerscheZahl: at least some
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/ide/demo/8412116d37650c63a0bb1570fcfdba066760bc
MSmits: maybe we should check with a cg dev first?
eulerscheZahl: preview. right now it's my own contrib for testing
AntiSquid: just yolo submit
MSmits: ok, will submit my bot in the highest league
MSmits: *after* i switch to c++ mode :P
MSmits: o right
MSmits: I am alone :P
Illedan: There is a bug in Langtons ant?
MSmits: yes
Illedan: which?
MSmits: when your ant goes off screen in the first game a boolean is set to true and is not set back to false for the second game
jacek: well ants are bugs anyway so whats the problem
eulerscheZahl: ok, the ant is moving again after it left the grid
MSmits: or false and not set back to true
eulerscheZahl: code:
eulerscheZahl: def player0(): http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/2f0042e3-306a-4786-b162-89529d2f74bb
eulerscheZahl: seed=5165791258583332900
eulerscheZahl: play against yourself, python IDE bot
MSmits: ok
AntiSquid: of course there's a bug in langton's ant, the title would be misleading otherwise
Astrobytes: :smirk:
eulerscheZahl: the apostrophe in the title alone is a bug already
AntiSquid: nvm, chat scroll
MSmits: sigh
MSmits: now i put the python bot in my onitama ide
eulerscheZahl: hope you submitted instead of playing too :D
MSmits: hehe no :P
MSmits: yep it moves twice
MSmits: good job
eulerscheZahl: so, shall we risk it?
Illedan: Did trictrac tell his approach in Tulips?
Illedan: still ifs?
MSmits: well what is the alternative eulerscheZahl?
MSmits: if it resubmits the bosses, will there ever be anything we can do about that?
eulerscheZahl: let it broken? :D
eulerscheZahl: ok, let's do it :fingers_crossed:
MSmits: allright :)
eulerscheZahl: the zip is even smaller than before, i have a better zip compression
MSmits: and that with a whole extra line of code
MSmits: Illedan don't know, but trictrac almost always does a minimax, if he can
AntiSquid: is redstrike winning the bug? :P
BenjaminUrquhart: euler you said "let it broken"
and so it became
https://i.imgur.com/VJwcEyZ.png
MSmits: AntiSquid he does abuse the bug sometimes, but his bot is better even without the bug
eulerscheZahl: what's that?
BenjaminUrquhart: CodinBotRelay logs
Illedan: Minmax is hard on the tulips though
BenjaminUrquhart: trying to fix some stuff that broke from CG updates
Astrobytes: If that's still ifs Illedan I'm seriously impressed
eulerscheZahl: https://prnt.sc/s6aqrv
jacek: Oups?
Astrobytes: What are you using Illedan?
eulerscheZahl: so i can't edit someone else's contribution after all?
MSmits: I guess so
Illedan: Which is nice :P
MSmits: Should I write a tech support ticket or something?
eulerscheZahl: yes
MSmits: ok will do
eulerscheZahl: ping thibaud on the forum, giving the line
MSmits: if you mention him in the message he gets pinged?
eulerscheZahl: private void reinit(){ // Réinitialse tout à la fin du premier round
lastAction=null;
touche_bord=new boolean[]{false,false};
AntiSquid: you can't call it just ifs if you do lots of searches and simulate the bloody game state
eulerscheZahl: @_CG_Thibaud
eulerscheZahl: sends an email to him
eulerscheZahl: the last line of the 3 above is what i added
MSmits: ah yes, resetting the touche_bord
Astrobytes: AntiSquid tric trac had no search previously in TaD
MSmits: where do i do this @_CG_Thibaud
dbdr: touché
AntiSquid: ya but do you call ooc bot with tracker only just if-else bot?
Astrobytes: It's just "touche" in the code
Astrobytes: We're talking about TaD tho
eulerscheZahl: in the forum MSmits
Astrobytes: @AntiSquid
MSmits: ok
eulerscheZahl: just start typing, autocomplete will help
AntiSquid: i am saying he might have a lot more than simple ifs to Astrobytes
MSmits: cool
Astrobytes: AntiSquid but he confirmed previously that he did not, we're speculating on what he has now
Astrobytes: I get what you mean
Astrobytes: dbdr how deep is your TaD minimax?
dbdr: 3, without checking the time :D
dbdr: about 20% timeouts
Astrobytes: Cool. I'm at 2, with a somewhat inefficient bot
Astrobytes: Rewrite tomorrow I guess
Astrobytes: eval just score?
dbdr: yeah
Astrobytes: Same. Trying to come up with some other ideas
wlesavo: TaD is cool name btw
AntiSquid: TD
AntiSquid: :D
eulerscheZahl: TD is taken
AntiSquid: 2x CR, 2x TD
eulerscheZahl: 2.5x CotR
dbdr: 2x CotR
dbdr: .5?
AntiSquid: good
Astrobytes: Code of the Rings
eulerscheZahl: coders of the realm 1+2
dbdr: eulerscheZahl! you were faster!!!!
eulerscheZahl: haha
dbdr: ah
AntiSquid: refer to checkers as C
struct: Y
AntiSquid: it's the acronym
AntiSquid: didn't see anyone say OA yet
trictrac: illedan, now i am with min max on TaD
MSmits: ha!
jacek: oO
Astrobytes: See, told ya's
BenjaminUrquhart: what's TaD?
BenjaminUrquhart: oh
jacek: turd
Astrobytes: Tulips and Daisies
BenjaminUrquhart: that flower one
Astrobytes: good work trictrac
BenjaminUrquhart: "Back in the 1980s, children in school had math notebooks in which the pages were printed by a grid of squares."
It's 2020 and that's what I use for math as well
BenjaminUrquhart: :thinking:
MSmits: me too
Astrobytes: Yeah I've got grid notebooks
trictrac: thanks but EricSMSO is better for the instant
MSmits: jacek, this is funny
dbdr: unacceptable :)
MSmits: i thought you would for sure pull me down with your chain submit
MSmits: and you did
MSmits: but you pulled karliso more :P
AntiSquid: are the costs varying from game to game for TaD ?
MSmits: maybe with more spam you could be nr 21
MSmits: 1
Astrobytes: No AntiSquid
jacek: and you can play certain game with this notebook https://i.redd.it/93aazuyvdow21.png
AntiSquid: we get them as input though :thinking:
Astrobytes: Yeah I know, annoying
MSmits: I love that notebook!
Astrobytes: yay organic chemistry
MSmits: it's a yavalath book!
AntiSquid: nice :D
AntiSquid: so what do you do when you don't draw carbon bonds? :p
Astrobytes: I drew all mine freehand, I wish I'd had a notebook like that
Nerchio: is tulips a good challenge to write my first monte carlo?
MSmits: what do you mean a monte carlo
eulerscheZahl: huge branching
MSmits: some people confuse monte carlo and monte carlo tree search
Nerchio: i meant mcts
AntiSquid: but what's wrong with free hand?
MSmits: do uttt for that
eulerscheZahl: smash the code is good for monte carlo
Astrobytes: Yeah they should have called it Oak Trees and Pine Trees
AntiSquid: wasn't there some rotation in chemistry that's very important to not mess up when drawing ?
MSmits: tulips will not work well with mcts if you've never done it before
Nerchio: i dont like tick tac toe not really into uttt :s
MSmits: hmm ok, then do bandas
Astrobytes: Are you talking about chirality AntiSquid?
eulerscheZahl: bandas is a good choice
eulerscheZahl: or connect4
MSmits: yeah but he wants an arena that gives cp
Nerchio: bandas looks more fun i guess
MSmits: and xp
eulerscheZahl: both have a limited branching so you get visible results with less rollouts already
MSmits: bandas is cool
AntiSquid: ya that one
MSmits: the pushing sim will be a bit complicated at first
MSmits: oware has similar complexity
MSmits: can do that too
AntiSquid: is chat being weird? i get like +5 lines pop up at a time
eulerscheZahl: also a good candidate for bitboards
eulerscheZahl: first the MCTS
eulerscheZahl: then the bitboards
eulerscheZahl: don't start 2 wars at once
MSmits: *now* you tell me :P
eulerscheZahl: i always did
MSmits: well yes, but not when i wrote my first mcts that already had bitboard :P
MSmits: took me a whole month
MSmits: actually
MSmits: maybe you told me
MSmits: I am stubborn
Astrobytes: Didn't you learn C++ during that time too tho
MSmits: yeah but i had bitboard and mcts in c# already
Astrobytes: *begin to learn*
AntiSquid: wait you can do mcts for csb no?
MSmits: yeah I guess you can
MSmits: but i think its hard
MSmits: people do minimax with it
struct: What did you use on Langton?
MSmits: mcts
AndrewLaneX: I got captcha'd
AndrewLaneX: :)
AntiSquid: nerchio if CP is your main goal:
http://apps.rezonux.com/codingame/?user=ca7666783c8b1849544468008f6b2d3e1597351
struct: if CP go CSB, probably one of the easiest legend
MSmits: I saw you type something about FB as well
MSmits: 137 lines?
AntiSquid: 137 lines what?
MSmits: for a bot in FB to get legend
struct: legend 131 lines javascript
AntiSquid: BS @_@
struct: I had to spam submit gold
struct: But I got legend
AntiSquid: i guess you write it all in one like lol
MSmits: probably some strong heuristics and no spells
AntiSquid: how do you keep track of the game and what spells to cast lol
struct: I have spells
MSmits: oh
MSmits: do you search?
struct: Just heuristics
MSmits: ah ok
AntiSquid: "strong" heuristics, more like code golfed heuristics i bet
MSmits: well they have to be strong too
AntiSquid: if spaghetti can get legend yes, not arguing that, it's just the code size
MSmits: struct is pretty talented
Astrobytes: Especially at deleting accounts and finishing Yinsh :P
MSmits: he has many
AntiSquid: this isn't that struct ? this is Tobou or are they related?
Astrobytes: Many Yinshes?
MSmits: talents
Astrobytes: Same person squiddy
MSmits: they're all the same talented weirdo
AntiSquid: was struct made when tobou was still around as a username?
Astrobytes: Yeah
AntiSquid: maybe they were even both in chat at some point ...
AntiSquid: 1 alter ego too many
Astrobytes: He changed Tobou to struct, the proof.txt is on the MultiStruct github thanks to euler :D
MSmits: how long did he carry this secret?
Astrobytes: A year? Ish?
AntiSquid: i know the name changed to struct, but he had a second account then, which is weird considering how active he was on it
Astrobytes: He had more accounts too, Nulte was one, and there were others
AntiSquid: and he acted as a separate individual on it
AntiSquid: idk about nulte, just saw struct in chat A LOT!
Astrobytes: I busted his Nulte account in chat
AntiSquid: it's like Mr ROBOT lol
AntiSquid: (horrible show btw)
struct: I typed on phrase here and then deleted
struct: Or something like that
AntiSquid: struct it's ok
AntiSquid: create as many alts as you wish but please put some avatars on them, it's getting annoying
MSmits: this one has an avatar
AntiSquid: this is the main
Astrobytes: So did the Nulte one
eulerscheZahl: when struct was new (around the time when langton's ant came out), he even said that he is an alt. but that he's rarely chatting with the main account and we won't know him anyways
MSmits: or is it?
Astrobytes: Correct eulerscheZahl
MSmits: I remember that
MSmits: we all started guessing then
AntiSquid: ah, that time when we guess struct was the main and MSmits was his alt ?
MSmits: :)
Astrobytes: MStructs
struct: Whos the real struct
Astrobytes: There is no struct
JBM: will the real struct please stand up
Astrobytes: Please stand up
struct_s_main: hello
struct: hi
Nikhil_The_Lord: yo
struct: Are these structs?
Astrobytes: Infinistructs
struct_s_main: automaton2000 hi
Automaton2000: i go for the big board
Astrobytes: All your structs are belong to us.
struct_s_main: how to delete my alt ?
Astrobytes: Insanity.
struct: settings
struct: delete account
struct: The account is not deleted though
trictrac: hi struct, do you resubmit yinsh or never ?
struct: tritrac I will try to finish it, but I changed a few things
struct: For example no more multiple turns per player
struct: and notation also changed
trictrac: ok thank you good news
Astrobytes: Notatiion changed to what?
Astrobytes: *Notation
struct: So now if you have multiple moves you must apply them all on same turn
struct: http://www.gipf.com/yinsh/notations/notation.html
struct: To these notation
struct: this*
Astrobytes: I thought you did that already
struct: yes
struct: But I never submited that version to CGT
struct: CG
Astrobytes: Ahhh ok
Astrobytes: Multiple moves per turn sounds much better than the multiple turns in a row
MSmits: yeah
structs_s_main: hi
MSmits: AntiSquid go back on your main, we dont believe you
**MSmits smells the squid in the struct
Astrobytes: MSmits sniffs squids
AntiSquid: when did anti-squid and squid become interchangeable ?
AntiSquid: :/
Astrobytes: WE have problems calling you Anti
Astrobytes: Too much like Auntie
Astrobytes: Auntie Squid
AntiSquid: also it's a different type of squid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kow1C3rt0Pw
AntiSquid: motorbike squids (people without protection)
MSmits: :squid: :motorcycle: that is the question
Astrobytes: loads of them round my way
AntiSquid: and bad at it too
Astrobytes: They bring shame upon their bikes
MSmits: I'll try to remember that you have nothing against sea creatures then AntiSquid
AntiSquid: no, i just play along with the joke
MSmits: o
AntiSquid: guess it would have been lame to just pick a "anti" + sea_creature_name
Astrobytes: antiseacucumber
AntiSquid: there's an anti dolphin group on facebook and reddit, wow
https://imgur.com/a/ZPkdzPv
AntiSquid: this is what i found regarding that nick Astrobytes https://cdn.thetruthaboutcancer.com/wp-content/uploads/20190125173114/Sea-Cucumber-final1.jpg
Astrobytes: Intriguing...
Adnmaster: is there any way to find out if we're red or blue in the beginning of the game? (code royale)
AntiSquid: something to do with id of player? see statement
Astrobytes: Umm, position I think? Just off the top of my head
Astrobytes: Been a while, thankfully
Adnmaster: statement?
AntiSquid: the problem statement
Adnmaster: we dont have statement as i know
Astrobytes: The description of the game
AntiSquid: the description of ... yes that
Adnmaster: it doesnt say anything about it in the description
AntiSquid: well you have your queen's position
Adnmaster: it doesnt give that as input
AntiSquid: there was something ...
Adnmaster: oh
Adnmaster: sorry
Adnmaster: it does
AntiSquid: owner: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/acce473a-155a-4bad-9179-bb0d0bde4bd4
Adnmaster: thank you
Astrobytes: If the statement is too confusing there are simpler multiplayers
AntiSquid: ya, play ocean of code instead
Adnmaster: i think ocean of code is harder than this
AntiSquid: was a joke :D
Adnmaster: :D
AntiSquid: was code royale trello visible during its creation? :thinking:
https://trello.com/b/i3PvOOlS/code-royale
AntiSquid: Automaton2000 say oops
Automaton2000: you would still have to figure out what i'm doing
Atticus14: Are there answers to these?
Atticus14: I am doing the Thor episode 1
Uljahn: there are hints on the left
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: Hello everyone, I would like to make a question about Mars Lander. How do i detect where the ground is flat?
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: please
struct: There will be two coordinates given where the y is the same
struct: Maybe there are more
struct: but pick the one with the longest distance of X
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: I'm trying to find thos land coordinates but still not see it. Thanks anyway ;)
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: will check the args[] but i dont think so
struct: its above
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: inside the for loop?
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: landX, landY ?
struct: yyes
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: because they are declared in the loop, i cannot access them, should i remove the declaration outside the loop, or there is another way to have these values?
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: to outside*
struct: you can declare the vars outside the loop
NatanaelXUFREGARCEZ: ok, i thought i should not touch other parts of the default code. Thanks
AntiSquid: you can do whatever you want with the default code actually
Nerchio: yeah
Nerchio: like
Nerchio: MSG MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA
AntiSquid: it's Thor puzzle Nerchio, it doesn't have an opponent or msg output
Nerchio: damn missed opportunity
Astrobytes: If you click on submit too many times in that puzzle you get a Thro finger
Astrobytes: *THOR
AntiSquid: joke ?
Astrobytes: I wouldn't go that far
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knxq5EF-ohI
Astrobytes: Jesus
Astrobytes: I think I liked the Aladdin song better
MSmits: oh
MSmits: I will find it for you
Astrobytes: No no it's fine, I'll imagine it
MSmits: o ok
Astrobytes: :P
MSmits: I'm listening to it so you don't have to
Astrobytes: You are a true gentleman.
how's the Onitama coming along?
MSmits: 22:44:38,347 INFO Temporary results (time left estimation : 6 minutes) : http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e57634ea-faca-4165-af2a-c208bcd68b19
MSmits: jacek is a hard nut to crack it seems
MSmits: but plenty of constants to fit :)
Astrobytes: Well, that karlis o winrate is good either way
MSmits: yeah
Astrobytes: What's with the draws?
MSmits: only 2
MSmits: vs darkhorse
MSmits: lemme find one
Astrobytes: yeah, why just v him
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/replay/455101718
MSmits: hmm bad solving I think
MSmits: very late
MSmits: draws are hard to get though
Astrobytes: "Oups
An error occurred (#UNAUTHORIZED): "You are not authorised to view replay 455101718". Please contact codersHS@codingame.com"
MSmits: ah yes
MSmits: sec
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/455101718
MSmits: it wasnt shared
MSmits: i think its just random that it was darkhorse, but it might have something to do with similarities in the search
Astrobytes: Got it now thanks.
Yeah you called draw very late, is there a mistake earlier or
Astrobytes: Yeah as you say, maybe very similar search
MSmits: hmm it may just be the fact that there's many moves and no way to guide
MSmits: if everything leads to a draw, how would you be guided anywhere?
Astrobytes: Hm, true
MSmits: draws are hard to solve in uttt as well
dbdr: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/455131552
game of poverty :D
Illedan: Cant view :(
MSmits: need to share
MSmits: i just did that too
Astrobytes: What's with that?
MSmits: IDE games are private until shared
Astrobytes: Oh wait CG changed something recently
MSmits: its a good thing
Astrobytes: yeah that
MSmits: I think it is to prevent people from taking solutions to optimization games
MSmits: but not sure
Astrobytes: Or finding contests?
MSmits: yeah that too I guess
AntiSquid: dbdr share replay !
dbdr: ?
dbdr: didn't I share?
Astrobytes: yeah but can't view it
dbdr: how do I share?
AntiSquid: click share button
Astrobytes: BigUP you finally made it, welcome to wood 1 :)
AntiSquid: when the joy of getting promoted is wood 1 ...
dbdr: https://www.codingame.com/replay/455132156
dbdr: better?
MSmits: sad game. Never become a gardener dbdr
Nerchio: people have -score in bandas lol
Astrobytes: lol
dbdr: MSmits why sad?
MSmits: I dunno, you tried to make a column of daisies and then he messed it up
MSmits: made me sad
MSmits: :sad:
MSmits: I'm just messing. I barely understand this game
Astrobytes: It's more the 0 gold and -1 gold :P
MSmits: yeah thats a lot of wasted effort
AntiSquid: dbdr i don't get it why didn't you do 4 in a row lol
MSmits: I think he tried to make a bigger combo
stacked: ::sunglasses:
AntiSquid: is that the strat? make the opponent timeout? ooc timeout strat ?
MSmits: he didnt timeout
MSmits: he goldout
AntiSquid: the opponent did
MSmits: dont think so
AntiSquid: nvm
Astrobytes: He didn't. He tried to use more gold than he has
MSmits: apparently flowers cost money
AntiSquid: you mean the flowers from the supermarket weren't free ?
dbdr: values gorws as the fibonnaci sequence
MSmits: think zombieflowers AntiSquid
Astrobytes: But not Plants vs Zombies
dbdr: less gore
wlesavo: dbdr especially in march 8
AntiSquid: plants vs zombies would be fun multi :p
AntiSquid: lots to code though
wlesavo: code vs zombies
Astrobytes: Isn't that just basically tower defence?
AntiSquid: completely different game wlesavo
stone43: how is it not tower defense?
wlesavo: all the names are already taken, huh
AntiSquid: plants vs scripts
MSmits: what is a good IDE to code python in, so that I can collapse functions and such?
BigUP: Astrobytes, thank's ;)
dbdr: MSmits CD editor can do it :)
dbdr: CG
MSmits: yeah this is for my AI assignment
MSmits: not for CG
MSmits: should I use Atom?
dbdr: you can still code in CG ;)
MSmits: there's multiple files
Astrobytes: VSCode, Sublime
dbdr: then copy paste out :upside_down:
Astrobytes: VS
MSmits: wait... visual studio is good for python?
Astrobytes: You can do python in it
MSmits: nice
Astrobytes: Just download the python bits and pieces for it
Astrobytes: Did you pass your security course OK btw MSmits
Astrobytes: Guessing you did since you're on the AI one now
MSmits: yeah very near maximum score, but there was supposed to be an oral exam... haven't heard back about that. Maybe they're waiting for the corona thing
Astrobytes: Cool. Yeah I'd imagine it's got something to do with that
MSmits: I'm glad it is done though, I didn't like the subject much
Astrobytes: Excellent submit dbdr, what did you do?
dbdr: went from depth 3 to depth 2 :D
Astrobytes: MSmits, I'm sure you'll enjoy the AI one a little better
Astrobytes: hahaha nice
dbdr: beware of my next depth 1 bot ;)
Astrobytes: lol
Astrobytes: Would of course be nice to be able to test against Rust bots in the IDE...
MSmits: gj dbdr, picking flowers like a pro
Astrobytes: Another reason to switch to rust right? :D
MSmits: double edged sword. He can't test vs us either, this is worse
Astrobytes: Really?
MSmits: yeah, it's the same IDE. He has to submit to test
MSmits: afaik
dbdr: I can if I send the compiled binary
MSmits: ahh o
MSmits: k
Astrobytes: Damn, what a pain in the ass
dbdr: it is, but minor
dbdr: can be scripted, like everything
Astrobytes: ofc :)
TheoAguilar: who is computer science here
Nerchio: i am THE science
Nerchio: you should be afraid
JBM: is science scary?
Astrobytes: No. It's the scientists you need to worry about.
JBM: i KNEW it
dbdr: burn the witches!
JBM: BURN
MSmits: :fire: :fire:
coderinblack: sure
hozayfeh: Hi
icecream17: Wow. My wood2 boss was 2nd place, so I resubmit with improvements, and now it's 2nd place in wood1
hozayfeh: HIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Durkin: huh, anyone know off the top of the head if two lightcycles 'heads' can collide for a tie in Tron?
Uljahn: no, they move sequentially
nthistle: @stacked rip I lost the chat window
stacked: for which one lol
POSEnough: does anyone has text about MPI programming?
