CredibleOpossum: Why is the "Power of Thor" killbox bad?
MSmits: morning
YurkovAS: MSmits congratulations with top1 in oware!
MSmits: thanks
uop: shut network
TranBac: LOL
MadKnight: hey MSmits u got #1 ?
MadKnight: using smitsimax ?
MSmits: no, using mcts with early playout termination
MSmits: also the nr 1 is unstable. royale can slowly pull me down with submit spam because i get occasional losses and Robo does nor
MSmits: my bot is somewhat stronger against the nn's, but the nn's lose less vs weaker players
ThunderbirdOne: so, technically you got lucky with the #1 spot? :p
MSmits: no
MSmits: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-oware-abapa/msmits
MSmits: I win almost every game against the non-NNs
MSmits: but even if i lose 1 out of 20, if the NN's lose 1 out of 50, lower ranked players will eventually pull me down
MSmits: so it's mostly a feature of the ladder-system. All I have to do is resubmit
ThunderbirdOne: aha
MSmits: it might be that the NN's take into account more different board layouts due to their training
MSmits: which makes them more flexible vs weaker players. Less chance of a critical mistake
MSmits: after all, I have no more than 10 parameters. And they have thousands
ThunderbirdOne: fair enough
wlesavo: hey guys, im probably stupid or smth, but what means {int} in python, for ex in this solution https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/skynet-revolution-episode-2/solution?id=3116375
asd521: ummm can someone help me?
asd521: with c language i mean its a simple question
ThunderbirdOne: wlesavo i can't see the python solutions =/
ThunderbirdOne: asd521 shoot, someone might be able to help
StickyVicky: wlesavo, I can't see the solution as I haven't completed but it's probably the name of an int variable that is going to be combined with text on an f-string. Such as: int=4;print(f"{int}2")
asd521: my array has 7 elements in it but when i do sizeof(array)/sizeof(array[0]) its prints the size as 2
ThunderbirdOne: StickyVicky seems like it, but jezus... int as a variable name :p that should be banned
asd521: sizeof(array) prints out 8 when it should print atleast 28
StickyVicky: still better and more descriptive than: asdf, but I agree :p
ThunderbirdOne: :D hah
asd521: how can i make it more descriptive?
ThunderbirdOne: call it whatever it represents
ThunderbirdOne: if it's a count, call it count
ThunderbirdOne: if it's the amount of money, call it TotalMoney or AmountOfMoney
ThunderbirdOne: with lowercase btw, sorry :p
MSmits: dont call it coun
MSmits: count
MSmits: thats a reserved word
ThunderbirdOne: not in C#
MSmits: true
ThunderbirdOne: just make your variables as descriptive as possilbe, while avoiding reserved words (oh, and don't make them SUPER fucking long either)
MSmits: sigh, I am having a checkerbot problem. My bot works, except when I turn optimization (O) on
MSmits: how do you debug problems that only happen with optimizations?
ThunderbirdOne: doesn't sound very optimised :p
MSmits: you get no error message =/
MSmits: I had this sort of thing before. It's a really tough problem
MSmits: somewhere the optimization assumes something is always zero when it's not.
MSmits: or something like that
MSmits: then it removes some code that breaks the bot
MSmits: I also already know it's related to hashing
darkhorse64: print is your friend. Check uninitialized data
MSmits: i tried print, but it happens to rarely, i dont know the conditions for the print
MSmits: uininitialized might be it iyes
MSmits: basically it happens when i try to use transpositions and stop selection when reaching a repeated state
MSmits: (repeated state = backprop value 0)
MSmits: you could also do this for oware btw, but I am not currently doing that
darkhorse64: You can also debug Release code but it assumes that you can reproduce the bug under Windows
MSmits: also a bit risky due to end game turn
MSmits: my VS doesnt even know the pragmas
MSmits: so no luck there
Astrobytes: #ifndef _WIN32
Astrobytes: then pragmas, so VS ignores them
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b2ca825c-b0cb-4ced-95d3-831bab342c2a
MSmits: i should put the pragmas in there too i guess
MSmits: but it runs anyway
MSmits: the problem is more that the bug only happens with the pragmas on
MSmits: and they cant be on in VS
Astrobytes: gotcha
MSmits: but maybe VS has its own optims that cause the same bug, so i could still do it with release debugging
MSmits: my c++ programs compiled with VS are also fast. About 30% faster than on CG due to faster processor i guess
dbdr: MSmits: it seems quite a waste of time to search for such bugs, doesn't it?
MSmits: yes
dbdr: the compiler should tell you where you use uninitialized memory
dbdr: or other undefined behaviour
MSmits: oh, i can find that easily myself
MSmits: the unitialized memory that is
MSmits: undefined behavior... not so much
MSmits: I am guessing I am copying a 32 bit to a 64 bit variable or something
Locinsh: ]\
MSmits: you're pushing Robo darkhorse64 :P
dbdr: I like rust's approach, which is that such possibly undefined behaviour is reported by the compiler by default
MSmits: thats what I knew would happen. I'm not going to resubmit soon though. I want to do some more fitting first
dbdr: you can use the unsafe keyword if you really need sth like that and are sure it's OK
dbdr: so you immediately know where to look if something is going wrong
MSmits: i have to use unitialized memory often
MSmits: try to use a 40 million sized node pool without it
dbdr: there might be tools that help with C++, not familiar with it
dbdr: yes, there are always ways to do that in rust as well
MSmits: not in C# :(
MSmits: well maybe with unsafe, i dont know
MSmits: never used it in C#
dbdr: it's just safe by default, unsafe when you really need it and are sure
TheAceOfToasters: That one CodinGame Sponsored Contest where they gave you like 10 inputs, but never told you what any of them did and told you to get the highest score is the weirdest contest
darkhorse64: I wonder how you manage to do Rust on CG with debug on in the IDE
mr.x: hi
darkhorse64: 0.07 away from Agade, should I resubmit ? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
MSmits: no need, someone else will perturb it
dbdr: darkhorse64: debug in the IDE is annoying but it's not a dealbreaker
dbdr: it's good enough for testing the code is correct, usually
darkhorse64: Your BT bot times out for instance.
dbdr: then I look at arena matches
dbdr: and reproduce a situation locally if I need to
darkhorse64: Agreed but it's not very friendly
dbdr: agreed, would be nice if CG improved it. even -O1
dbdr: anyways, the language makes it worth it for me :)
CSharp_Sama: Okay
CSharp_Sama: Cool
reCurse: #pragma...
reCurse: Oh C#, nevermind
Xx_R6PGMMater2BE_xX: hi guy
Xx_R6PGMMater2BE_xX: s
Xx_R6PGMMasterBE_xX: hello
MSmits: did you use external things like opening books from other sources? Or fancy eval from somewhere?
Marchete: you need a good eval then
Marchete: I need to
Marchete: maybe that's the main diff from the first 2
MSmits: opening books are easy to get
Marchete: they are?
MSmits: i couldnt find much actual source code of the best checkers bot. Those arent free
MSmits: yeah, just google a bit
MSmits: there's whole libraries
Marchete: I saw some openings
Marchete: but then I need to encode, make space, etc etcv
Marchete: the 100kb is a sh*t
Marchete: too cumbersome
MSmits: not true really
MSmits: my yavalath both uses 5k
MSmits: uttt also around that
MSmits: it takes a huge amount of time to compute a book large enough to fill 100kb
MSmits: oh also, that 5k is poorly compressed
Marchete: either that or picking already done books
Marchete: but then you realize they can't fit
MSmits: yeah you have to get creative with that
MSmits: probably write a program to analyze the book and make a selection
darkhorse64: MSmits: If you are using eval after expansion, do you keep counting eval > 0 as Win or do you use the true value to compute a reward or node priors ?
MSmits: I do this differently now darkhorse64, I will explain when i get home. My train is arriving now
MSmits: will be 20 mins or so
MSmits: maybe less
darkhorse64: Time to go back home, too. Don't rush !
MSmits: i'll jump over cars and sht
Marchete: avoid coughing people too
Marchete: people in public transport are expert on are experts in sneezing into your face
Marchete: lol what I wrote
Marchete: I need vacations
MSmits: back
MSmits: 11 mins, not bad
MSmits: you still here darkhorse64?
MSmits: we'll talk later. I'm guessing you're not as good as I am at jumping cars
MSmits: it's a skill
dbdr: MSmits, what do you mean too lazy to code the sim? You need it to update the state in any case.
MSmits: the sim in the random rollout
MSmits: it's different
dbdr: So it's only picking random moves that you miss?
MSmits: when you're using all sorts of fancy things to generate a move list for a tree, you use different code than when you're just picking 1 move
dbdr: I mean it's a few lines of code, no?
dbdr: pick a move, apply it
dbdr: I see
MSmits: ok for example, with checkers, do you pick a random piece and then a random move?
MSmits: or do you make a full list of all moves and random that
MSmits: it requires more thinking and since my bot isnt even working properly yet, I didnt bother
dbdr: right, fair enough
MSmits: i did think of one thing though
eulerscheZahl: in checkers you have to capture whenever possible
dbdr: my intuition would be random among all moves is better
eulerscheZahl: so you have to consider all pieces, not just a random one
dbdr: but might be slower
Marchete: move ordering
MSmits: you can do the quiescence by calculating jumps first. You only stop the sim once no more jumps are available
Marchete: capture, anticapture, then others
Marchete: no?
MSmits: eulerscheZahl I meant, when you split the sim into two phases, jump phase first, then move phase
dbdr: eulerscheZahl is alive :)
MSmits: if jumps dont happen, then there is a move phase
MSmits: but either way you can go full random, or random piece -> random move
eulerscheZahl: why should i be dead?
MSmits: you have been online less
eulerscheZahl: congrats on 500 btw
dbdr: disappeared for a while no?
Marchete: AutomatonNN , eulerscheZahl is alive!
AutomatonNN: why do you think it will be a random search?
MSmits: dont scare euler away again Marchete
eulerscheZahl: started bulls and cows today
MSmits: oh cool, i was a great fan of that game when i was young
eulerscheZahl: seems easy to hardcode, but playing for real is more fun
Marchete: easy to hardcode?
dbdr: playing for real?
eulerscheZahl: with multiple submits to etract some info about validators
Marchete: I mean, I tried hardcoding 1 digit
dbdr: validators are random
Marchete: and all values failed at first attempt
eulerscheZahl: oh, didn't know
Marchete: I assume validators are random
eulerscheZahl: that explains the huge variance on submits
i thought it's just my random solver
Marchete: at least my solution wasn't hardcoded
Marchete: nor preseeded or anything
Marchete: yeah
Marchete: lot of variance due to this
MSmits: but how did beard get nr 1?
MSmits: does anyone know yet?
eulerscheZahl: bug
dbdr: what bug?
eulerscheZahl: 10 validators at first, no proper leaderboard reset
dbdr: ah yes
Marchete: really?
Marchete: :D
MSmits: how are they fixing thaT?
eulerscheZahl: BeardedWhaleYesterday at 8:30 PM
The leaderboard for Bulls and Cows 2 is still not correct. I'm in the lead with the score of 122, which I got when there were only 10 validators.
AstroshytesYesterday at 8:49 PM
That answers that question at least :stuck_out_tongue:
MSmits: ah lol
Marchete: people got mad about he knew the random seed or smth
MSmits: haha yes, that went off the rails Iguess
Marchete: I'm against mid game changes, even for NS
MSmits: it;s not even a very good score for 10 validators is it?
Marchete: like 12 moves per validator
Marchete: not really I think
dbdr: how many vals are there now?
eulerscheZahl: 46
eulerscheZahl: 1 digit only once, rest 5 times
eulerscheZahl: before it was each once (1 digit to 10 ditigs)
dbdr: damn, missed the obvious 42 choice
MSmits: 1 digit... you need on average 5 guesses then?
Marchete: yes
dbdr: 1 digit => pure luck, right?
MSmits: the information is useless
MSmits: the input
MSmits: yeah pure luck i suppose
MSmits: but the validator still has a use. It tests whether your bot can deal with this length
eulerscheZahl: similar with 9 digits
eulerscheZahl: you don't know the missing digit
eulerscheZahl: and more CPU time would definitely help my solver
Marchete: I had problems on 9 and 10 too
eulerscheZahl: so i combined 2 approaches now
eulerscheZahl: for me it starts at 8 digits already
Marchete: but it seems my score is not completely random, a lot of submits are around 320-340
dbdr: but validators have only 1 and 5?
eulerscheZahl: 1 digit once
2..10 digits 5 times each
dbdr: got it now :)
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/439234017
and that's my solver bruteforcing the right one
eulerscheZahl: for more digits it's significantly less effective
dbdr: oh, the replay shows the secret
dbdr: step 1, write an OCR
eulerscheZahl: that's not how it works :P
dbdr: step 2: guess the correct number in 2
dbdr: really? /s
dbdr: that would also make things especially easy if validators were fixed
eulerscheZahl: btw i can no longer download validators, CG blocked that API
eulerscheZahl: it just returns "success" without any content
MSmits: is it ever beneficial to take a guess that you know can't be the right code, but will give you more information?
Marchete: that's a good thing euler
eulerscheZahl: yes MSmits
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/439234561
eulerscheZahl: that's actually a bad solution
MSmits: do you just monte carlo the possible secrets and calculate how many turns it takes to guess them ?
dbdr: depends how you define beneficial
MSmits: guess the code sooner
MSmits: = beneficial
eulerscheZahl: if i take 2 digits that i haven't tested before, it might be faster
MSmits: sooner as in, expected number of turns required
dbdr: still not defined. in average? in the best case? worst case?
eulerscheZahl: average i would say
MSmits: expectation value
MSmits: that's average I guess
Marchete: people have studied bulls and cows, and got even formulas to get the max amount of moves and such
dbdr: with that definition the answer is yes
eulerscheZahl: i have a list of all possible solutions, print one at random and eliminate based on the result
eulerscheZahl: but for 8+ digits it's too slow :(
MSmits: however, with multiple submits possible, you may be more interested in what gives you the highest value, when you incorporate luck
dbdr: exactly
Marchete: euler for 10 you can ignore cows
eulerscheZahl: best case: 1 try and i solve the 10 digit number :P
dbdr: yes, so it's balancing
eulerscheZahl: Marchete why? performance improvement?
eulerscheZahl: otherwise i don't see a point
Marchete: in my case I timeouted
MSmits: how much code did you have to write for bulls and cows eulerscheZahl`?
MSmits: seems like a tiny bot?
eulerscheZahl: 226 lines atm
eulerscheZahl: i could do some cleanup
MSmits: ah ok, so 400 for me
MSmits: this is the euler-smits linecount conversion law
eulerscheZahl: but better score for you
another law
MSmits: mmh didnt you pass me at NS?
eulerscheZahl: no
eulerscheZahl: but it's the puzzle of the week \o/
MSmits: oh, I thought you did
dbdr: yeah, plenty of new players
dbdr: was 90 before I think
MSmits: ahh thats why i got some rank
eulerscheZahl: and a 3 star rating :(
MSmits: 38th now
MSmits: what!
MSmits: barbarians!
dbdr: let's see if I voted
MSmits: 5 stars from me
eulerscheZahl: i didn't
i never vote
eulerscheZahl: except for the plagiarism puzzle (low ratin = autoremove)
dbdr: ah, one 3 stars
dbdr: but 4.9 avg
MSmits: mmh it says here you got 36 times 5 stars....
MSmits: this one guy who gave 3 just saw numbers and freaked out :P
Marchete: can I vote 1 fon Bender 4=
Marchete: ?
dbdr: quite a pessimitic way to look at it
Marchete: on*
Marchete: I hate it
eulerscheZahl: of course you can
but you will make toad sad
Marchete: what's the least to not make you sad?
eulerscheZahl: bender isn't harder than "don't panic 2"
dbdr: why Java Marchete?
dbdr: maybe I already asked
Marchete: to clone the referee :D
MSmits: mmh it says westicles is rank 2
dbdr: lazy lazy :D
MSmits: but he is rank 1 with you dbdr
Marchete: extreme lazyness, reporting for duty
MSmits: i guess first in keeps the rank
dbdr: the ranking never shows equals
dbdr: but I think he gets all the CPs
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: well the score is integer, so in this case we know for sure
dbdr: also, it seems now they use submit date to sort for equals
dbdr: for display, not for points
eulerscheZahl: yes, same CP for both
eulerscheZahl: did you improve your code to reach 500?
dbdr: he was hiding 150 levels I think
Marchete: wow
dbdr: from 353 to 49x
Marchete: you are amazing
Westicles: Then he caught me in a day. How embarrasing
Marchete: I got stuck on 335 and never looked back
dbdr: when I was at 444
dbdr: Westicles :D are you running now?
dbdr: reminds me of the cold war ;)
Westicles: Nah... it would take me 2 weeks to get to 600, then boom tied again
eulerscheZahl: uhm, i think the game will crash around level 700
Marchete: make some kind of truce
dbdr: tempting...
MSmits: you have to do it now Westicles, before it is summer and the heat is wasted
eulerscheZahl: 50ms per turn => 600 turns max
that's 600 move actions
Marchete: think on those little bits
dbdr: the crash I mean :smiling_imp:
Marchete: they are scared
Westicles: If I get quarantined I'll do it
eulerscheZahl: so depending on the particular solution you find, it even crashes for a different level
dbdr: so 600, not 700?
MSmits: lol, get as high as possible with as few as possible moves
MSmits: new challenge
eulerscheZahl: not every new level adds a new move
dbdr: sounds more and more like TGD :D
Marchete: Imagine you get a solution but it's too large to be accepted...
dbdr: need to find a better one
dbdr: ah, 600 turns
MSmits: eulerscheZahl, if you were inclined to do so, could you not compress the moves into less steps?
dbdr: let me check my longest solution
eulerscheZahl: i know how to modify the referee to accept the solution
just haven't done yet
MSmits: ah ok
Westicles: My longest is around 490 I think
dbdr: ╰─➤ wc -l log.txt
144722 log.txt
dbdr: :D
eulerscheZahl: read multiple lines at once
can even be a function of numbers remaining on the board
MSmits: ah ok
eulerscheZahl: time to truncate your log
MSmits: yeah my log is huge too and i only made 208
eulerscheZahl: number shifting or movie collection, tough decision :D
dbdr: my latest solution is 550 moves
MSmits: maybe quickly watch matrix trilogy and then vow to never watch it again, saves a lot of space
eulerscheZahl: getting closer to the limit
reCurse: Or just watch the first one and ignore rumors a trilogy was in the works
Westicles: 550 moves... I smell a rat. You must be well into the 500s
dbdr: matrix is a trilogy in one episode
MSmits: yeah... tbh I rewatched them and I only really liked the first one
dbdr: unlike THHGTTG, which is a trilogy in 7 episodes
MSmits: whats that
dbdr: really?
MSmits: are you just stringing characters together dbdr
reCurse: I'm lost with your analogy
dbdr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy
MSmits: oh ok that one, yes I read the books
dbdr: both trilogies in some other number than 3
reCurse: That makes no sense
MSmits: thats true, a trilogy should be 3
dbdr: /s?
reCurse: I don't get your point
dbdr: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3225e873-186d-4cb6-9b6e-03e465618638
MSmits: maybe we should discuss that plague game instead ? :P
reCurse: Ah, didn't know that
reCurse: I already resolved that discussion MSmits
eulerscheZahl: corona joke?
reCurse: But you were missing
MSmits: ow :(
MSmits: no eulerscheZahl, you missed a long discussion
MSmits: about a game idea
MSmits: and balance
Westicles: They are bringing 1000 people off that cruise ship within 2 miles of me.
MSmits: we did it quietly so as not to disturb you in your sleepp
dbdr: Westicles, hold your breath for a few weeks
eulerscheZahl: or get infected and realize that it mostly kills old people and you are safe
MSmits: mostly safe :P
dbdr: mostly harmless
MSmits: 3,4% death rate now. Italy almost completely in quarantine. Pretty extreme
MSmits: funerals arent even allowed as I understand it
Westicles: I'm a germ freak from way back, so hopefully that will protect me
MSmits: if you avoided them all your life, I doubt it
MSmits: well maybe if you can avoid this one also :)
reCurse: IIRC experts said something between 40 to 60% of world population would be in contact at the end
reCurse: So just make peace with it
Westicles: Well, I won't go sticking my finger in my eye, but a stray burrito might get me
reCurse: And be thankful it's not a worse virus
MSmits: well some effort may cause you to be on the right side of that 50-50
MSmits: like, locking yourself in the house and do a bunch of multis
MSmits: I see multiple advantages of that approach
eulerscheZahl: name another advantage
MSmits: you get to do multis
reCurse: If that means uttt I might risk going outside instead
MSmits: lol
dbdr: - uttt or death?
- death please
darkhorse64: uttt to death
MSmits: heyy darkhorse64
MSmits: want me to explain the eval thing?
darkhorse64: sure
MSmits: i dont do the node priors thingy you mentioned, but I also dont use the discrete -1,0,1 score anymore
MSmits: I thought about it like this
MSmits: the eval is basically to estimate your advantage over the opponent
MSmits: at some point the advantage is going to be large enough that it's almost certain you win
MSmits: so you want that to give score 1, the same as an actual win
darkhorse64: and you cannot choose any move because all look good
dbdr: why lose the precision?
MSmits: so all float values between -1 and +1 are possible. I define a max advantage
MSmits: it's not a loss
dbdr: sounds arbitrary
MSmits: you dont want a solved win to be less important than a high advantage
MSmits: sometimes an eval score gets really high due to an artefact in your evak
MSmits: eval
MSmits: that easily happens with many parameters
MSmits: you need to cap it at the win score
dbdr: solved win should be 1.0, high advantage is still <1
MSmits: if its much lower than 1, it doesnt guide your search anymore
dbdr: ah, your eval can go above 1?
MSmits: it could if i didnt cap it
dbdr: yes, then cap is useful
MSmits: it is simply another parameter
dbdr: or transform it the the -1,+1 range
MSmits: you mean like that relu thing a NN uses?
dbdr: e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function
dbdr: you can choose the steepness
dbdr: yeah
MSmits: interesting
MSmits: isnt that an expensive function?
dbdr: yeah, that could matter
dbdr: definitely depends on the gam
dbdr: e
dbdr: if the sim is expensive like PCR, probably doesn't matter :)
MSmits: the thing is though, it's not unrealistic to assume that after a certain point, an advantage gives you 100% chance to win
dbdr: that's true
darkhorse64: You will face that problem with breakthrough. You build an overwhelming advantage and all moves have strong eval. How can you choose a move with -1, 1 criteria. You really need to look at the true eval
dbdr: since you don't play randomly
MSmits: but darkhorse64, you dont know the true eval
dbdr: for random play, it would be true a huge advantge is still not 100%
darkhorse64: I mean the eval value not the discretized one
MSmits: float normalized = evalScore / MAX_ADVANTAGE;
return evalScore > 0 ? min(1.0f, normalized) : max(-1.0f, normalized);
darkhorse64: It might be dangerous if your cap value is not well tuned
MSmits: in the lower extreme it is the same as what i was doing before
dbdr: Darkorse64: if all moves have strong eval, it could mean it does not matter which one you pick
MSmits: namely, returning -1, 0 or 1
MSmits: so it can only be an improvement
MSmits: if my max advantage is near to 0 I mean
MSmits: I also noticed, that as soon as I implemented this, my bot became better without the simulation phase entirely (sim depth 0)
darkhorse64: Trust me, it matters because of horizon effect. You keep playing weak moves that seemingly does not degrade your position until you r bot realizes it's losing
MSmits: It lost the need for a random components
dbdr: but that means your eval is imperfect
dbdr: which it has to be of course
dbdr: but that also means trusting small differences that might be noise
MSmits: darkhorse64 if your exploration param is somewhat higher, will you not be able to find better board states for your bot?
darkhorse64: It is but not to the point it cannot distinguish strong moves
MSmits: if it goes down a wrong branch the way you describe, it just seems it doesnt explore well?
darkhorse64: Breakthrough endings are tactical which is a weak spot for mcts. Remember shallow traps in Y
MSmits: true
MSmits: but I think you need a very heavy eval for breakthrough
reCurse: Yinsh?
reCurse: This comment was sponsored by struct
MSmits: this solves the problem (partially) for Y also
MSmits: :P
darkhorse64: Also the branching factor is quite high and does not decrease
MSmits: you do need TT I think
MSmits: it helps when all the pieces are the same
darkhorse64: There is a lot to explore
MSmits: Yea, you need to prune
MSmits: you'll create blind spots, but what else are you gonna do
darkhorse64: The issue is to find whether you have a breakthrough (you consider the advanced pieces). If not, you have to build your position which is a long term goal
MSmits: did you try splitting the board into partitions and assess them strategically?
MSmits: could use a lookup for that
MSmits: not saying that would be easy
MSmits: lookups up to 3x3 should be possible
MSmits: or maybe a lookup centered on each pawn
darkhorse64: The seminal paper describes something like that; consider the 2x3 rectangle in front of your pawn.
MSmits: yeah that makes sense
darkhorse64: Programming Breakthrough from Richard Lorentz
MSmits: what i like about breakthrough is that you need to think more about the game to write the bot
dbdr: darkhorse64, did you work much on Breakthrough?
dbdr: you usually get much higher than that
MSmits: ssht dbdr, thats a sore point
MSmits: we dont talk about that
darkhorse64: Yes, my bot is weak and I spend too much time on Oware
dbdr: well, it's a praise in disguise
MSmits: true
dbdr: for the other multis
MSmits: darkhorse64 is pretty good almost everywhere he tries yeah
dbdr: well, we have to make choices, can't do them all in depth
MSmits: darkhorse64, maybe I should try breakthrough and then we can suck at it together
MSmits: we're good at similar games
MSmits: so we might also suck similarly
dbdr: is it a real Python at #8?
MSmits: just need to finish this checker bot so i can leave it
dbdr: above Robo :D
MSmits: lol thats a NN isnt it?
darkhorse64: The best thing to stop sucking is to play another game and learn from it
reCurse: Python = NN, it is known
MSmits: no
MSmits: I mean Robo's
MSmits: he said something about trying and failing at breakthrough NN
reCurse: You're messing up my NN and now my memes
MSmits: not sure if thats also his submission
reCurse: This is war
MSmits: :worried:
darkhorse64: War of the machines
dbdr: the only winning move is not to play
MSmits: where did that come from
Astrobytes: wargames
MSmits: oh right
dbdr: https://the-drive.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-cms-content-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1559612419057-asdadsdscc.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.4.1&s=36027423fa58f2e18c32619938179fe2
MSmits: yeah I remember now
dbdr: https://10poundtees.co.uk/image/cache//data/designs/winningmove/winningmove-t-shirt-black-midnight-swatch-400x400.jpg
dbdr: need to adapt it to uTTT :D
dbdr: special dedication to reCurse ;)
MSmits: yea
reCurse: If I could go back in time I'd block CG on my end
reCurse: Only way to avoid uttt for sure
MSmits: and also, fix baby hitler
Astrobytes: By blocking CG?
eulerscheZahl: accept hit at art academia, so he doesn't get stupid ideas
MSmits: yea!
MSmits: we'd have some great art and avoid WWII on the side
eulerscheZahl: now i think about OverSimplified again and wait for the next video, thanks :/
dbdr: he was in love with a jewish girl too
MSmits: oh dont even know those videos.
eulerscheZahl: history videos, but simplified and funny
dbdr: I discovered kurzgesagt recently
MSmits: so far it seems an add for skillshare?
eulerscheZahl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpu6tbFCsI
2:03 my favorite scene on the channel
eulerscheZahl: kurzgesagt is not a German channel? I'm confused
dbdr: yeah, it's in english
dbdr: :)
Westicles: Ugh. Us old folks can't watch that kind of stuff
dbdr: maybe started in german?
dbdr: they mention "in a nutshell" as well
dbdr: which could be a lose translation
MSmits: too fast Westicles?
Westicles: It is like having your eyes pried open ala Clockwork Orange and shoving 10 minutes of memes into you
dbdr: here's something even faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCn8ux2gbs
dbdr: it's pretty great I think
eulerscheZahl: at least you have the native speaker advantage Westicles
MadKnight: hey hey guys what are u doing and talking about ?
MadKnight: Automaton2000 gimme all the short memory of this conversation
Automaton2000: well it was a good idea
mr.x: what means "-0x4(register)" in assembly?
mr.x: founded
struct: hi
mr.x: hello
Wilster: to be or not to be
CSharp_Sama: estar o no estar
CSharp_Sama: :joy: I'm sorry for being bad at spanish
jacek: well this fits for struct
AntiSquid: CSharp_Sama it's ok, if hell is divided by country then i am sure you can join the spaniards
CSharp_Sama: :pensive:
Uljahn: in soviet russia you escape the hell when you die, Automaton2000
Automaton2000: to give you some pointers
CSharp_Sama: Just don't corrupt my RAM please
brandon-1999: Where do i get the variables use within the game?
brandon-1999: used*
reCurse: So...
reCurse: I decided to read my oware bot code again for fun
reCurse: Apparently player 2 hates winning
reCurse: Mixing absolute and relative scores is dangerous
reCurse: It also destroyed training obviously
reCurse: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Schneewittchen: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Eutermann: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
**Schneewittchen slaps Eutermann around a bit with a large fishbot
AntiSquid: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: I don't know the problem with that puzzle game
Eutermann: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Eutermann: Schneewitchen
AntiSquid: table flip virus
**Schneewittchen infected
reCurse: I think this one is almost as good as when I ignored one of the enemy pod angles back in CSB
Astrobytes: Knew it wouldn't be long before you had a look at it lol
reCurse: Oh nevermind. I forgot I always consider myself player 1.
reCurse: wtb /unflip
struct: ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
reCurse: Thanks
AntiSquid: (╯°□°）╯ʇɔnɹʇs
struct: (ง'̀-'́)ง
dbdr: \flip
AntiSquid: ʇɔnɹʇsノ( º _ ºノ)
MSmits: happens to me all the time =/
MSmits: think you had a Eureka, and turns out it;s a Meh....
reCurse: Well on the plus side I did remember it's my old mcts code from uttt v-1
reCurse: So there's always the possibility it helps for no cost
MSmits: and maybe I overfitted against you and a small change destroys my bot winrate :)
MSmits: (that's a serious possibility, given the extremely fine tuned params)
Astrobytes: Smits, how did you get on with the 1 & 2 seed parameters?
MSmits: just started refitting those. I never got that much better with that through self-play
MSmits: maybe when i try vs robo + recurse
Astrobytes: I still think they're weird
MSmits: me too
MSmits: when i set seed1 to 0 as a value, my winrate plummets though
MSmits: so either it compensates artificially for a lack elsewhere in my eval, or it really is needed
MSmits: hard to say...
Astrobytes: I'm in param hell. On the plus side I now get 950K - 1.2 mill root visits first turn
MSmits: good job
MSmits: at least, I guess that's better than most top players
MSmits: not sure what the average is
Astrobytes: Still work to do. More refactoring and sht tomorrow.
reCurse: orly
reCurse: Maybe I need to reduce my NN size
reCurse: Oh first turn
MSmits: you have 24k or 26k right?
MSmits: you said that earlier
reCurse: First turn 442k
reCurse: I meant on a regular turn
MSmits: oh ok
struct: damn
Astrobytes: First turn is meh as player 1, might as well just output 5
MSmits: I have 3.6 million on first turn
reCurse: Ok so I retract my retraction
reCurse: Maybe I do need to reduce it
MSmits: i do have to add
MSmits: I get 6 visits out of 1 rollout
MSmits: because I eval each child
reCurse: Dunno if it matters
MSmits: at the expanded node
MSmits: me neither, but just to be clear
Astrobytes: Still runs about the same no?
MSmits: well the selection loop can get expensive
MSmits: lots of UCB
Astrobytes: true
MSmits: reCurse not sure if you save your board on the node or if you re-apply moves
MSmits: but saving the board seems better
reCurse: Those optims don't matter with NN
MSmits: yeah i guess all the calc-time goes into the NN-use
Astrobytes: regular turn I have 70-85k
struct: cpp?
MSmits: bout 3 times that for me
MSmits: cpp for me yes
Astrobytes: I've just started rewriting.
Astrobytes: Nodes still heavy
struct: Im still in learning process of AVX
MSmits: what heavy about them?
struct: It has been fun
Astrobytes: They've got pointers, arrays
MSmits: hmm not sure if pointers are bad
Astrobytes: No, to parents and children, rather use indices
MSmits: i usually use integer indices to the node pool, because they are half the size of a pointer
MSmits: but its not that big of a deal
struct: I dont think they are slower tbh
struct: pointer should not be slower than array[index]
struct: But I can be mistaken
MSmits: memory caching
Astrobytes: yeah that. It is faster. But I also have my gamestate
MSmits: pointer should be 8 byte
MSmits: integer index 4 byte
MSmits: but its a small thing really, microoptim
struct: Soon I move to sim phase of CSB
MSmits: oh and dont keep a parent index Astrobytes
MSmits: it is useless
MSmits: do back prop with a list of nodes
MSmits: gather them up during selection, then loop over them
Astrobytes: list of visited nodes right
MSmits: yes
Astrobytes: Yep, cool
struct: yeah I do that on UTTT
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7f21ecd8-ddf2-4489-9a4f-1c1d461b490d
MSmits: this is my node
MSmits: it's really tiny and i never really tested the effect of using int_8s, it might actually slow me
MSmits: total size 24 byte if i'm not mistaken.
struct: yes 24
Astrobytes: yeah that looks nice nad light, my state is stored on the node tho, and my board is an array of uint8_t
Astrobytes: *and
MSmits: my state is also stored on the node
MSmits: thats the uint64_t board
struct: you dont store move?
MSmits: 8 out of the 24 bytes
MSmits: i dont
Astrobytes: Yeah but you've got it bitboarded
MSmits: i dont need the move if i've got the board resulting from the move
Astrobytes: I don't store move either
MSmits: it's a pain when you output your move though, you have to reverse engineer the children boards :P
MSmits: it's much worse on checkers
MSmits: try reverse engineering a multi jump :P
reCurse: Have you noticed a side imbalance btw
Astrobytes: in Oware?
reCurse: Yes
Astrobytes: P1
MSmits: I never checked, every test I did swaps
MSmits: awari is solved as a draw, but that doesnt mean there isnt an imbalance
reCurse: Ok it takes 16 minutes to start beating you
reCurse: Not bad
MSmits: you're training it anew ?
Astrobytes: brb
reCurse: Yeah with my new mcts I did fo ruttt
MSmits: oh cool
reCurse: Also changed a couple things I know work better
reCurse: We'll see
MSmits: well as i said, do test it vs other players also. I might be overfitting, so your bot might just be breaking my overfit
struct: At least you are safe at Yavalath MSmits
reCurse: It took minutes to beat everyone back then
reCurse: Like 5 minutes at most
reCurse: Except robo
MSmits: i was just gonna say
MSmits: robo is a tough nut
MSmits: how do you know it works well vs me? Do you start a cg bench?
MSmits: or do you download some replays?
reCurse: No I just checked if I could win
reCurse: Means it's in the ballpark
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: yes
MSmits: but you could already win
MSmits: my current submit had like 55%
reCurse: I also notice it has a much easier time as p1
reCurse: Hence my question
MSmits: it's highly unstable, winrates may hinge on a single move(type)
MSmits: at least thats what I noticed
MSmits: sometimes I did a submit with a small change and agade suddenly beats me 90%
reCurse: Sure, I was talking about sides tho
reCurse: This bit annoys me way more
MSmits: yeah my point was, if it is so unstable, it might be true for p1 vs p2 too
reCurse: Not necessarily
MSmits: thats why i said might :P
reCurse: Ok I need to run a bench but I think it broke your overfit
MSmits: what annoys you?
reCurse: In 23 minutes
struct: UTTT v2?
reCurse: Side imbalance is very annoying
reCurse: I'm assuming it doesn't exist
reCurse: So it speeds up everything by 2
MSmits: well I hope you're having fun doing this and not doing it because I am frustrating you again :P
reCurse: You know the answer to that
MSmits: :grin:
reCurse: Doesn't beat my old bot yet though
Astrobytes: From day 1 of this multi P1 seemed stronger, seems they have the advantage, yet perfect play results in a draw
reCurse: By the time it does it will start losing against you
MSmits: tons of rps here
MSmits: for a long time i had 0% Robo 40% you even though you beat Robo
MSmits: it is very likely that after you're done training and I'm still fitting, i'll run into a combination of params that wins again. That's why your first instinct, to wait till I am distracted, might have been good
MSmits: I wont go back after i'm done
reCurse: I'm not a smart guy
Astrobytes: Famous last words there
Astrobytes: @Smits
MSmits: nah really. I see so many nice games I really want to try
MSmits: breakthrough, that bulls/cows game
MSmits: even onitama, just because it looks pretty
reCurse: If I'm lucky it will give me opportunity to test training regression mitigation
reCurse: Might be useful elsewhere
MSmits: whats tha
reCurse: Prevent self-play from collapsing
reCurse: Catastrophic forgetting
MSmits: is that similar to parameter drifting?
reCurse: Don't think so
MSmits: I may be following a course on AI for my studies for CS teaching
Astrobytes: To prevent overfitting?
MSmits: I wasnt supposed to do this because it is an area I already know a lot about, but another class got cancelled
reCurse: I guess you could say it's overfitting
Astrobytes: @reCurse
reCurse: But it's more subtle than that
Astrobytes: Nice MSmits, should hopefully be interesting
MSmits: well it's a tradeoff between not learning very much because it's your favorite subject and liking the class a lot because it's your favorite subject :)
MSmits: they do machine learning also, but probably not very in depth
reCurse: I have a very low opinion of courses
MSmits: me too, generally
MSmits: but you see, it might be nice to talk about this subject with a live person as opposed to on chat
MSmits: i dont know anyone in real life that is interested in this
Astrobytes: Same. Well, one, but he's a stoner and never does anything.
MSmits: lol
struct: Who is interested in AVX?
Astrobytes: I guess as long as you can discuss topics beyond the reach of the course then it might be beneficial
MSmits: I am struct, I wish I could find a way to use it in a bot
MSmits: Astrobytes exactly. Also we may get a project to work on and that may finally give me an excuse to do some machine learning, or something else I have yet to try
struct: I would also like to learn ML
struct: But one thing at a time
MSmits: yeah, I am already doing 3 things at once now
Astrobytes: Well, there's Kaggle I guess if you're into data
reCurse: Halite is merging into Kaggle
MSmits: I'm not, really
reCurse: So they'll have AI competition too
Astrobytes: Yeah I saw that
MSmits: into data I mean
Astrobytes: i think they plan to do more AI competitions iirc? They have a connect 4 one or something
MSmits: why would you have a connect 4 competition?
struct: There should still be a connect 4 somewhere here
Astrobytes: Might be connect(n), can't remember
struct: At least I made it before
struct: Just the demo though
MSmits: connect n makes more sense
MSmits: or connect 4 without first making 3
MSmits: that would be a great game right struct ?
Astrobytes: Ohhh I wonder
Astrobytes: :P
struct: Maybe we can also make it 6 directions?
MSmits: oh... like on a hex board?
struct: Oh right, thats what it is called
dbdr: connect N in M dimensions
darkhorse64: That's 3 directions
MSmits: 3 axes
Astrobytes: lol. I need to do something for that Yavalath. I lost the will to live trying to bitboard it last year
MSmits: it's a pain to bitboard yes
MSmits: I enjoyed it up to a point
darkhorse64: It's aj joy you mean
MSmits: well at some point it got a little crazy
MSmits: add to that mcts bugs and it can get frustrating to debug
Astrobytes: I'm sure I threw my whiteboard across the room at one point
Astrobytes: (small whiteboard)
MSmits: i should have a whiteboard
MSmits: at home i mean
struct: Just bring one from school
MSmits: the one the size of a wall you mean?
struct: Yeah
struct: They will fit in the train
Astrobytes: Ye, I have a big one for the wall, smaller one for the lap (both sides), and wipeable paper notebooks (that I must clean)
MSmits: yeah, i dont think the train is the issue
Astrobytes: (not all for CG I may add!)
MSmits: sounds very professional
MSmits: I just have paper all over the place with squiggles on them I lose understanding of about an hour after writing it down
struct: In all the movies I watch, the physics guy always have a white board
struct: You need one
Astrobytes: Oh CG-wise I have pages of useless numbers
MSmits: i know struct, but I have a wife
struct: you can't have both?
Astrobytes: I whiteboard stuff, but I'm lazy and use my notepad a lot....
darkhorse64: The part of my code in Yavalath which gives me pride is the one where I look for traps just with pdep/pext
struct: Guess im ditching my white board
MSmits: yeah, me too darkhorse64
MSmits: did much walking before I came up with that
darkhorse64: Pencil/paper is enough
darkhorse64: It makes me sad that I had to disable it in rollouts (no gain)
MSmits: oh
Astrobytes: Which? Pencil or paper? :P
MSmits: its really impossible for me to do any meaningful improvement to yavalath. I have no way of testing. The opening book trumps every possible change
darkhorse64: Test without ?
MSmits: theres no point to that, the bot will never be without
MSmits: and there is no guarantee that an improvement without, is an improvement with
Illedan: Is the openingbook with 6 way rotation?
MSmits: 12
MSmits: there are 12 symmetries
darkhorse64: If it makes your bot stronger without, it's likely to be best with
Illedan: ah k
MSmits: not really darkhorse64 because when you're optimizing without book, you'll be optimizing to avoid the traps that occur in early game
MSmits: but i dont need to, because I have the book
Astrobytes: Hm, not necessarily, cause you're compensating for actions the opening book will counter or prevent
MSmits: yep
Astrobytes: @darkhorse
MSmits: but i cant be sure darkhorse64, its hard to say. Yavalath is pretty messy early game
darkhorse64: And for traps out of the book ? I mean they can occur quite late although I agree the game gets less tactical after a while
MSmits: you mean traps out of book that occur later on, if you are using the book?
darkhorse64: Yes
MSmits: you can optimize it a bit for that, but you need to find an opponent that is going to survive early game. However, any opponent I have seen that does that, has very little variation. It's hard to do a good test
darkhorse64: Notice I have no data to back up this claim. Just thinking aloud
MSmits: yeah my data is not that great either. Self play is useless mostly and any opponent I try to train against will soon have an anti-book
MSmits: it's ridiculous how few moves I need to counter someone
Astrobytes: The MCTS should be able to deal with that late game issue though? it's the early traps it fails in right? minimax will probably negotiate the early traps OK (also thinking out loud, don't even have a bot lol)
MSmits: yes, seems minimax is better to avoid early game traps
MSmits: and late game mcts is very good I think
Astrobytes: Hence the need for opening book
MSmits: yeah, but minimax would benefit from it too
MSmits: you can also search through the book and get deeper
Astrobytes: For sure yeah
MSmits: if you already know the move you play, your branching becomes 1
MSmits: not just on the root, but on any layer you have a book move for
Astrobytes: Yes indeed
MSmits: so the moment you leave the book, you still have a small advantage because you have a tree from previous turns that got a bit deeper
MSmits: I also use transpositions on yavalath. I think it hurts early game
MSmits: but because of the book, who cares about early game anyway
darkhorse64: Here comes the dilemna: explore the bad moves to get ready for opponent bad moves or explore your book to get deeper ?
MSmits: yeah I never got that far into it, i just do regular exploration for my opponent moves
MSmits: btw, it's nothing magical what I do, anyone with sufficient obsession-fuel can beat me on Y
MSmits: just run a book for a few weeks
MSmits: meta mcts
darkhorse64: months you mean
MSmits: or do like re curse and run 10 cores
MSmits: well most people will try to thread it
Astrobytes: I was gonna say didn't you have that running for months
MSmits: i only ever did 1 core
Astrobytes: sheesh
MSmits: i had it running for 2 months or so? then did uttt
MSmits: not full time btw, proll 12 hrs a day
Astrobytes: half-time...
MSmits: yeah, my wife doesnt like the computer on at night or when nobody is home
MSmits: it might start the machine uprising when it's not being watched
MSmits: or cause a fire, whatever happens first
Astrobytes: #2 most likely
MSmits: yeah
Astrobytes: Though low probability for both tbh
MSmits: sure, it never caused a fire while I was there to watch it either
MSmits: I do like the fact that i got nr 1, but the meta mcts is really about learning about the game as well. That worked well for Y, not that well for uttt, because its hard to see anything in that game
MSmits: probably will be hard for oware as well... It's not that easy to see what works and what doesnt
MSmits: gonna netflix a bit before sleep
MSmits: no alcohol and picard for me, but I need to see that series somehow
Astrobytes: Haha, you can download it easily tbh
darkhorse64: Happy binge watching !
Astrobytes: And enjoy
MSmits: no doubt Astrobytes, ttyl guys, gn
Astrobytes: gn man
miszu: I haven't done C++ in like 2 years. Refreshing my memory about l-value, r-value
miszu: copy constructor
miszu: so many things can go wrong in C++ haha
struct: c++ is freedom
DJSugarCoatedKnight_f6cb: so is jumping out of a plane without a parachute
miszu: the more I understand the fine details, the more I see the freedom of it. But you have to be super duper careful about variables stored in stack
miszu: assigning an attribute to a local variable.. mmm seg fault... wonder why...
Uljahn: take care of your feet
Astrobytes: And leg
Astrobytes: s
AntiSquid: china banned Plague Inc game from their app store! Well done fighting the virus China!
tekki: hi world
tekki: any demand?
tekki: AutomatonNN what's going on here?
**AutomatonNN completely coded it in the same code
AntiSquid: tekki you'll be a panda steak once the chaos settles
tekki: :)
tekki: nice one Antisquid
tekki: congrats him AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: he was a hacker
Astrobytes: lol
tekki: dude wtf AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: even the same code as the boss in the contest
struct: AutomatonNN teach me AVX
AutomatonNN: what do you mean by the simple way to see the problem with the same starter again?
AntiSquid: panda hacking with a cleaver
tekki: ok AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: good
tekki: what's news AUtomatonNN?
AutomatonNN: Automaton2000 is always the only one who wants to win the contest and it was a real time struct
Astrobytes: Epic
tekki: oh yeah i guess AUtomatonNN
AntiSquid: tekki is it spamming season?
AutomatonNN: for debugging i gave up on that site
tekki: lol
struct: AutomatonNN send help
AutomatonNN: why did you submit a bot game?
struct: Should I take it down AutomatonNN?
AutomatonNN: CG is in the wrong time
struct: AutomatonNN where is everyone :(»
AutomatonNN: always was bugged
miszu: qq guys, the C++ here, is it C++11?
tekki: hi miszu
miszu: hi tekki
tekki: where you from miszu?
miszu: Montreal
tekki: nice
miszu: which part from France are you?
tekki: never been in Montreal
tekki: South West
miszu: we swear like sailor here
tekki: seriously?
tekki: why?
miszu: lemme give you the national anthem of Quebec
miszu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvR6-SQzqO8
tekki: go on dude
miszu: this capture the true spirit of Montreal and our culture
tekki: yeah it looks like :)
miszu: aren't you suppose to sleep? :P
tekki: you're lucky in Montreal
miszu: "lucky"
tekki: like sonw weather
miszu: honestly, I don't like it
tekki: here no much snow this year
miszu: very cold, 30cm of snowstorm
tekki: oh yeah
tekki: take holidays :)
miszu: yeah with all that covid going around haha
tekki: haha
miszu: thank god we are developers and it won't affect us
tekki: don't know what's gonna happen now?
tekki: maybe coronavirus gonna die soon AutomatonNN?
AutomatonNN: 250 RoboStac
miszu: AutomatonNN is saying nonsense haha
AutomatonNN: try here to increase my bot
tekki: AutomatonNN kill patient zero please :)
AutomatonNN: what is the problem?
tekki: virus AUtomatonNN
AutomatonNN: what is the main problem?
tekki: you gonna die AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: first time i get the idea
CharlesJoya: yoo
tekki: yop carlos :)
CharlesJoya: lol true whatsup
tekki: all fine ?
CharlesJoya: yeah mann just testing the waters
tekki: no virus close to you? :)
tekki: Automaton2000 can helpyou incase
Automaton2000: you have to win a t-shirt
miszu: Automaton2000 tell me a hoke
Automaton2000: need to improve my bot
AnkitAnand_12: Automaton2000 did you talk to AutomatonNN
Automaton2000: but i don't think i'll be able to come back
AutomatonNN: amount of information is the same as the boss in the contest
AnkitAnand_12: who is the boss... AutomatonNN or Automaton2000 ???
Automaton2000: i guess the answer is no
AutomatonNN: hello to the whole code
tekki: do you believe in god AutomatonNN?
AutomatonNN: for me it was a big difference
tekki: explain please AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: good point
tekki: what 's the problem with humanity AutomatonNN?
AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to see a program which stays the wrong one and the last move only won't
CredibleOpossum: Why is the "Power of Thor" killbox bad?
